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Calamari scout's precision is OP

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OP FOTM Commando Perkone Caldari State 11	Posted - 2014.06.25 06:33:00 - [1] - Quote It's been said a lot but I just want to emphasize it a bit more now that Rattati is actually coming on and it sounds like Charlie is coming soon. The cloak dampening nerf effectively nerfed Minmatar and Amarr scouts. I honestly have read the Gallente QQ about it but they will be fine. I don't know if the Gallente's dampening should be tweaked alongside Caldari's precision, because I have long since stopped understanding the numbers. But I am seriously afraid that although I wanted to become a Minja, I won't be able to because I refuse to accept just a PG buff. I don't even understand how the Minjas manage to pull of speed hacks without getting scanned down because they can't even fit a kin cat and can only afford to use one codebreaker, and even then a Calamari with 2 precisions will scan you down with 2 damps which I think is ridiculous. It should require the Calamari to equip 1 more precision if they want to dominate the other scout races because then it will cost them even more HP and give the Min/Amarr a better chance to outgun them. Perhaps changing/removing passive scans from the tacnet would solve this issue in itself, but I'm unsure about it because while I feel the current numbers on Caldari are OP, it is a novelty idea and I think the mediums/heavies that don't dampen deserve to be scanned by other squads because they sacrifice that ability for HP. Why not allow Caldari scouts to work like Gallente Logis do, just make them balanced.
Boot Booter Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 599	Posted - 2014.06.25 06:55:00 - [2] - Quote I agree something needs to be changed with them. They not only dominate when they play their intended role but also when they play an assaults role. Perhaps a small nerf to scan bonus per level. I think changing bonuses for all scouts to affect modules is also an interesting suggestion. They'd have to be altered a bit (thinking about amarr scout). SMG Specialist
SAIRAX SIS Nyain San General Tso's Alliance 83	Posted - 2014.06.25 07:20:00 - [3] - Quote Calmari ? Caldari ! yoroshiku ne !pÇÇpÇÇCute Cat NyaoooonpÇÇGÖ¬
OP FOTM Commando Perkone Caldari State 17	Posted - 2014.06.25 07:31:00 - [4] - Quote SAIRAX SIS wrote: Calmari ? Caldari ! You know what calamari is don't you? Squid.
Roger Cordill The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 372	Posted - 2014.06.25 07:49:00 - [5] - Quote Gal is the dampeners. That's their EWAR. Deal with it.
SAIRAX SIS Nyain San General Tso's Alliance 83	Posted - 2014.06.25 07:50:00 - [6] - Quote OP FOTM wrote: SAIRAX SIS wrote: Calmari ? Caldari ! You know what calamari is don't you? Squid. hmm ty :p Japanese "péñpé½" yoroshiku ne !pÇÇpÇÇCute Cat NyaoooonpÇÇGÖ¬
Roger Cordill The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 372	Posted - 2014.06.25 07:55:00 - [7] - Quote I love killing squids with freedom (read: antimatter) :D
Alena Ventrallis The Neutral Zone Psychotic Alliance 1396	Posted - 2014.06.25 07:58:00 - [8] - Quote Let me get this straight. CalScouts are op because they are good at scouting? Calmanndo user with nova knives: Because someone has to do it.
OP FOTM Commando Perkone Caldari State 17	Posted - 2014.06.25 07:59:00 - [9] - Quote Roger Cordill wrote: Gal is the dampeners. That's their EWAR. Deal with it. Actually I just read that the Gal damp bonus isn't applying when tested, so there actually might be a problem there. Not sure what you're getting at though. I was merely saying that Gallente should be slightly adjusted to make it fair for Caldari if their precision is nerfed. I'm probably completely off because, as I said, I don't understand the damn numbers.
shaman oga Nexus Balusa Horizon 2337	Posted - 2014.06.25 08:03:00 - [10] - Quote None of the scouts should have bonus on EW. EW is simply to powerful and should be influenced only by your fittings, all scouts should have the same EW capabilities. Caldari > better at precision Gallente/Amarr > better at dampening Minmatar > good at both, but not the king Only the slot layout should suggest your playstyle, that is the only way to balance scouts imo. PSN: ogamega I'm not a chef, i'm just a man who likes to cook.

OP FOTM Commando Perkone Caldari State 17	Posted - 2014.06.25 08:04:00 - [11] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: Let me get this straight. CalScouts are op because they are good at scouting? no, because the Minja and Amarr has to tie one arm behind its back just to anywhere close to a Calamari. You're saying you should be able to camp hack panels and deny the Minja the ability to do what it's designed to do - speed hack? Fit three complex precisions on your Calamari and the goddamn Amarr would do a better job of stealth hacking because the only thing that could avoid scans is a Gallente or an Amarr with 4 complex damps. that's like saying "oh, let's add Amarr and Minmatar tanks to the game, but make them constantly be scanned by Gunnlogis so if there's a Gunnlogi on the field it can instantly camp you without having to make any effort at all" Get real. Your Calamari is broken and needs fixing.
Alena Ventrallis The Neutral Zone Psychotic Alliance 1396	Posted - 2014.06.25 08:39:00 - [12] - Quote OP FOTM wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: Let me get this straight. CalScouts are op because they are good at scouting? Edit: TL;DR calscouts are op because you don't have to be a good scout to be good at scouting no, because the Minja and Amarr has to tie one arm behind its back just to anywhere close to a Calamari. You're saying you should be able to camp hack panels and deny the Minja the ability to do what it's designed to do - speed hack? Fit three complex precisions on your Calamari and the goddamn Amarr would do a better job of stealth hacking because the only thing that could avoid scans is a Gallente or an Amarr with 4 complex damps. that's like saying "oh, let's add Amarr and Minmatar tanks to the game, but make them constantly be scanned by Gunnlogis so if there's a Gunnlogi on the field it can instantly camp you without having to make any effort at all" Get real. Your Calamari is broken and needs fixing. So your upset that the scout suit designed to be good at scanning, is good at scanning? And the suits that aren't designed to avoid detection, aren't very good at avoiding detection? Calmanndo user with nova knives: Because someone has to do it.
OP FOTM Commando Perkone Caldari State 17	Posted - 2014.06.25 08:51:00 - [13] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: So your upset that the scout suit designed to be good at scanning, is good at scanning? And the suits that aren't designed to avoid detection, aren't very good at avoiding detection? All you need is one Cal in every squad in a Planetary Conquest to completely dominate all the other scouts, not to mention the poor mediums and heavies who will be constantly scanned. Your Caldari scout is a super weapon. There are no flaws to it, no weaknesses because laser weapons that can melt through you can't even get close enough because their optimal range is within your 70 meter scan radius. What is the Cal scout designed to be bad at? Scanning Gallente scouts? So you're trying to tell me that it's BALANCED that only ONE suit in this entire game can counter a Caldari scout? That's what made tank spam OP before they fixed it. Only forge gunners could counter tanks, and while they are trying to do so, the entire enemy team sees them and is focused on killing them because they know it's their achilles heel. Squads with Calamari in them can be invincible. What are you going to do, snipe the Caldari scout? You're not even going to SEE HIM.
Alena Ventrallis The Neutral Zone Psychotic Alliance 1397	Posted - 2014.06.25 08:57:00 - [14] - Quote OP FOTM wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: So your upset that the scout suit designed to be good at scanning, is good at scanning? And the suits that aren't designed to avoid detection, aren't very good at avoiding detection? All you need is one Cal in every squad in a Planetary Conquest to completely dominate all the other scouts, not to mention the poor mediums and heavies who will be constantly scanned. Your Caldari scout is a super weapon. There are no flaws to it, no weaknesses because laser weapons that can melt through you can't even get close enough because their optimal range is within your 70 meter scan radius. What is the Cal scout designed to be bad at? Scanning Gallente scouts? So you're trying to tell me that it's BALANCED that only ONE suit in this entire game can counter a Caldari scout? That's what made tank spam OP before they fixed it. Only forge gunners could counter tanks, and while they are trying to do so, the entire enemy team sees them and is focused on killing them because they know it's their achilles heel. Squads with Calamari in them can be invincible. What are you going to do, snipe the Caldari scout? You're not even going to SEE HIM. So there is no weapon capable of killing a calscout? Calmanndo user with nova knives: Because someone has to do it.
OP FOTM Commando Perkone Caldari State 17	Posted - 2014.06.25 08:59:00 - [15] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: So there is no weapon capable of killing a calscout? You are just like a broken record and there's no convincing you, so whatever. Have fun being OP while you can because everyone wants you nerfed.
Lynn Beck NoGameNoLife 1919	Posted - 2014.06.25 09:07:00 - [16] - Quote Eh. People that say Calscout(read: Wallhacks on overdrive) aren't OP need their brain taken out, screwed by the nearest hobo, then shoved directly up their bumholes. Seriously. It tanks better than a Minmatar Assault, moves faster, scans better, dampens better( i need 2 damps to hit yourbase profile with Damp 5) It has better strafe speed, smaller hitbox, has double my regen, actuallycan fit full prototype, and loses NOTHING compared to a Minmatar. Minmatar assault at least gains 15 ******* armor points on the Calassaut. Your Calscout? Nah. Just keep it's armor RIGHT WHERE IT IS. General John Ripper -BAM! I'm Emeril Lagasse. This message was approved by the 'Nobody Loved You' Foundation
Alena Ventrallis The Neutral Zone Psychotic Alliance 1397	Posted - 2014.06.25 09:35:00 - [17] - Quote Very well then. So the suit designed to scan is op at scanning? Let's take a look at some stats. First, we'll assume max stats for everything. The base suit with max skills is 34.5. Last I checked, only the shotgun has an optimal of less than that. So were good here. Let's toss on a range amp. Now we are at 50m. Got about half the weapons scanned outside their optimal. Looking good. Toss on another range amp. You get 69.59m. That's some good distance. Of course, you now have 87 armor tops (remember, we are assuming max everything) so there is that. A ha, but we have shields! Huzzah, let the health come in, baby! So we toss on 4 complex extenders and get the massive total shield of... 452.5. Amazing, I know. Which gives us a grand total of... 540 HP. That's about 18 militia AR bullets, not counting extra shield damage. At 800rpm, we have the shields gone in... 1.35 seconds. My oh my, what a hard tank to break. Sentinels should be envious. But wait, there's more. All that shield means your scan precision is 27dB. Which means a scout suit, not counting Gallente, who have a bonus to dampening, can get under you with one complex damp, for the massive fitting cost of 33 CPU. Golly wilickers, who could possibly fit THAT? and 0pg usage? The Minny scout is hurting for pg already! So if we want to scan us some dampened scouts, we need to drop an extender for an enhancer. That brings us down to 380 shields, but we can scan them now! Looks like a militia rifle can remove our shields in a second, but whose keeping track? Sarcasm aside (I get dickish when I'm drunk, f*ck it right?) there is nothing wrong with the scanner scout being good at scanning. The problem is everyone else getting the scans of the scanner scout. Remove that, and about 90% of everyone complaining will disappear. And a calscout can indeed scan any suit down, save gallente scouts trying to avoid them. But a starter fit can also kill those calscouts in about 1.5 seconds, because they have literally no tank. So most everyone should have it easy killing them. The problem isn't the calscout being good at scanning (which again, its its freaking job) but that the people in slayer nonscanny suits are getting the benefit of the calscout scans and using this to now everyone down. Calmanndo user with nova knives: Because someone has to do it.
Texs Red DUST University Ivy League 342	Posted - 2014.06.25 12:38:00 - [18] - Quote I agree that shared passive scans from the Caldari scout is the biggest crux of the problem but passive scans in a large radius are also very powerful by themselves. Mostly, I think, from the ability to tell which way someone is looking. This leads to them being able to perfectly shadow you with no hope of every catching them (especially if you are in a building complex). Ex: A Caldari shotgunner who would only shoot me in the back. He avidly avoided me until he could catch me from behind the blasted me in the back and as a Gallente Commando there was nothing I could do since he can probably see me anywhere within 50-70 meters (everywhere that matters in a building), he can tell where I am going, which direction I am facing, and I have no idea or ability to know where he is. At least if he couldn't tell which direction I was looking I might surprise him by walking backwards so he thinking he is coming up on me from behind but I turned the tables. Being able to tell POV direction should be reserved for active scanners, speaking of which have been make completely irrelevant by Caldari scouts. When the suit made for scanning out performs the equipment made for scanning, the suit is too good at scanning.
DUST Fiend Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 14468	Posted - 2014.06.25 12:41:00 - [19] - Quote Shared passive vision needs to go. What's OP about cal scouts / passive scans is that you get one person running it and all of a sudden the entire squad turns into a cal scout.
OP FOTM Commando Perkone Caldari State 36	Posted - 2014.06.25 17:49:00 - [20] - Quote well at least you agree that you need to be nerfed in SOME form I guess you are right. I am just not very confident that I will enjoy using the Minja if I skill into it because EVERYONE is using FOTM Calamari and will not even allow me to sneak anywhere near the hack panel I'm supposed to hack. I just wish they would buff the Minja a little more than a PG increase. I think it deserves another low slot at the very least. Otherwise I don't think it's a wise decision for me to skill into it. Plus, shotgun is basically an easier version of nova knives and is tactically superior, and I'm not a huge fan of how I'll have to skill into a CR which I have developed a loathing for. I've never had one point into scouts (except my alts). I was a Minmatar Logi before 1.8 respec and ever since I started this game I wanted to be a fast hacker. But I'm starting to feel like I might as well not even bother because at least the Logi was bulkier and could wait until the objective was clear of hostiles to hack. Minja has to attempt to sneak right under the enemy's nose undetected, and while it's amazing when they pull it off, without team support that hack isn't even going to get through.

Stefan Stahl Seituoda Taskforce Command 621	Posted - 2014.06.25 19:21:00 - [21] - Quote I agree that extremely low precision is an issue, but only so in conjunction with large range. Since scan precision is pretty much the one thing the Caldari scout is supposed to be good at I think the avenue for changes is in the range department. Let's start by removing the range bonus from the Scout suit skill and then think about lowering the base stat for scan range to 18 meters maybe. With two range extenders that leaves the CalScout at ~55 meters scan range and no dampening at all even on a ck.0. Anyone with a SCR and a proto active scanner can take that Scout out. Edit: According to protofits these changes would be a ~21% range nerf from ~70 meters.
Alena Ventrallis The Neutral Zone Psychotic Alliance 1398	Posted - 2014.06.25 19:52:00 - [22] - Quote OP FOTM wrote: well at least you agree that you need to be nerfed in SOME form I guess you are right. I am just not very confident that I will enjoy using the Minja if I skill into it because EVERYONE is using FOTM Calamari and will not even allow me to sneak anywhere near the hack panel I'm supposed to hack. I just wish they would buff the Minja a little more than a PG increase. I think it deserves another low slot at the very least. Otherwise I don't think it's a wise decision for me to skill into it. Plus, shotgun is basically an easier version of nova knives and is tactically superior, and I'm not a huge fan of how I'll have to skill into a CR which I have developed a loathing for. I've never had one point into scouts (except my alts). I was a Minmatar Logi before 1.8 respec and ever since I started this game I wanted to be a fast hacker. But I'm starting to feel like I might as well not even bother because at least the Logi was bulkier and could wait until the objective was clear of hostiles to hack. Minja has to attempt to sneak right under the enemy's nose undetected, and while it's amazing when they pull it off, without team support that hack isn't even going to get through. Sober now. CalScout should see everything around him, up to 70m if he so decides to fit. But his squad should only receive such Intel if he gets a mic and tells them where they are. Don't blame the suit for being good at what its supposed to do. Blame the shared tacnet for letting everyone piggyback on his abilities. Also, Minny scouts don't need more pg. Shield extenders need to cost less pg, by about 3 less at proto. That'll free up a good amount of pg for them. Calmanndo user with nova knives: Because someone has to do it.
OP FOTM Commando Perkone Caldari State 46	Posted - 2014.06.25 20:07:00 - [23] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: Also, Minny scouts don't need more pg. Shield extenders need to cost less pg, by about 3 less at proto. That'll free up a good amount of pg for them. Now you're just pissing me off. I just threw a proto fits with damage mods instead of shield extenders to humor you, because they have 2 less PG than extenders. http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/0/5139 At the very least they need a bonus to fitting kin cats. The suit can barely fulfill its intended role using a LP store combat rifle, no grenade, and a basic cloak (which it's supposed to get a fitting bonus on). By the way, this is unrealistic because it takes into account things like the basic light weapon skill and fitting optimizations up to 5, so you actually can't even fit that much realistically. http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/0/5140 This is the Calamari fulfilling its intended role. Note that every single slot is full and there's a PRO CLOAK and the RR isn't specialist. Stop rubbing salt in our wounds just because your OP suit needs to be nerfed.
Jathniel G I A N T General Tso's Alliance 1047	Posted - 2014.06.26 06:23:00 - [24] - Quote The Cal Scout is a better sensor support scout with it's passive. This is intended. No one catches a Minja. No one. Absolutely NO ONE. Except the CalScout. This too is intended. And you call that OP? You hack faster, you move faster, you kill everyone unlucky enough to get a blade in the back, instantly. No one else, even has a chance to stop you, or see you coming. Except the CalScout. You appear out of nowhere, and drop REs on tanks, and hack and steal people vehicles before they even know what happens. No one can anticipate you. Except the CalScout. Dude, get over yourself. The CalScout is not OP. It's your natural predator, and that's why you're here crying. HTFU.
Alena Ventrallis The Neutral Zone Psychotic Alliance 1404	Posted - 2014.06.26 06:51:00 - [25] - Quote OP FOTM wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: Also, Minny scouts don't need more pg. Shield extenders need to cost less pg, by about 3 less at proto. That'll free up a good amount of pg for them. Now you're just pissing me off. I just threw a proto fits with damage mods instead of shield extenders to humor you, because they have 2 less PG than extenders. http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/0/5139 At the very least they need a bonus to fitting kin cats. The suit can barely fulfill its intended role using a LP store combat rifle, no grenade, and a basic cloak (which it's supposed to get a fitting bonus on). By the way, this is unrealistic because it takes into account things like the basic light weapon skill and fitting optimizations up to 5, so you actually can't even fit that much realistically. http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/0/5140 This is the Calamari fulfilling its intended role. Note that every single slot is full and there's a PRO CLOAK and the RR isn't specialist. Stop rubbing salt in our wounds just because your OP suit needs to be nerfed. Remember the whining you did about being scanned? Drop a kincat or the cardiac, and toss on a dampener. I dropped a kincat. Now only a calscout or a proto scanner with gallogi bonus can find you. Which is fine, because only two suits can find you. The suits that are designed to find people. Funny how that works, huh? Now replace two of those myrofibils with shield extenders. Weird how that all fits with 4 pg to spare, huh? Now imagine if you had 6 pg freed up from less pg on shield extenders. That fit explains a lot of why you're bitching. You whine about how a suit designed for finding dampened suits is finding your undampened suit. What did you think was gonna happen? Calmanndo user with nova knives: Because someone has to do it.
General12912 Gallente Marine Corps 201	Posted - 2014.06.26 09:55:00 - [26] - Quote OP FOTM wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: So there is no weapon capable of killing a calscout? You are just like a broken record and there's no convincing you, so whatever. Have fun being OP while you can because everyone wants you nerfed. im a gal scout, and i dont think that the cal scout needs nerfed. those that use it dont even know what their cal scout can really do. they typically use shield extenders rather than what they are supposed to put in their highs, precision enhancers. as a result, my gal scout, which is packed with nothing but profile dameners in its lows, is stealthier than they can usually detect... until my shotty blows their puny heads off. its not like they need their heads anyways, they dont ever use them because their State does all their thinking for them. all they have to do is continue being brain-dead zombies for their greedy board of greedy CEOs. Every suit Gk.0 <3 Gallente Federation Patriot
Jotun Izalaru Goonfeet 144	Posted - 2014.06.26 15:45:00 - [27] - Quote Minmatar Scouts would be pretty sweet if people actually played Assault or if knife range CQC wasn't so finicky. As it is with everyone on the field running a CalScout or GalScout, Minjas are just... outscouted. They're okay against Heavies and Heavy/Logi combos but teamwork will beat even the craftiest MinScout, so really they're struggling for a role other than hacking. They're versatile enough - that slot loadout is great and gives a lot of options, but Dust doesn't reward versatility half as much as it does specialization.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 3831	Posted - 2014.06.26 17:21:00 - [28] - Quote The Caldari Scout should be the Scout Hunter, but should not be the Scout Spotter who allows Sentinels and Medium Frames to see the Min Scout sneaking up behind them. I propose that the suit locations that get transmitted on the Tac-Net should be at least 5db above what your suit can spot. (Say that it only transmits solid readings.) So if you only go stealthy enough to get under the Profile that the Caldari Scout transmits on the Tac-Net, then you can do your job as an assassin and only have to worry about the Caldair Scouts themselves countering you, rather than their entire team. (5db is a starting value for point of argument. I will leave it to the number crunchers in the Scout community to determine what the actual number should be.) Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
JDEZ09 Dark Side Alliance 68	Posted - 2014.06.30 16:32:00 - [29] - Quote Everyone had to slap on an extra dampener once the cloaks got nerfed, adapt or die. that means EWar cal scouts are squishier than ever, unless they want to get spotted. that means Gal scouts actually can get scanned now. Lets be real here, if a Caldari scout runs 3 precision enhancers.... Its beyond squishy for a prototype suit if fitted EWAR proper. youre looking at the same hp as the project legion tech demo scout. About 235shields 87 armor. thats what you are scared of?? More than anything on the battlefield? GTF over it brodenhein. Its your fault if you dont wanna run full damps like the rest of us.


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