RR had the lowest dps of all rifles. Now you want a half second head start on shooting on top of it?

Plasma rifle dps is 450.

A RR .5 second charge up would let you get to do 225 dps before he can fire his first bullet.

You must suck beyond all measure if you need the RR needed that hard lol

The RR has a mere 50 DPS less than the plasma rifle, while having twice the range.
I don't think charge up time is unreasonable as a balancing mechanic for it.


That said, 0.5 seconds is too much. It's fine where it is at the moment, pushing it up to 0.5s would start to make the weapon feel overly awkward to use.

Debatable about whether or not 0.5 seconds would be overly awkward, but I certainly don't think it's fine where it is at the moment. I tend to forget it's there most of the time, frankly. Perhaps around 0.3 seconds (like the Magsec) would work better. I at least actually feel the charge-up time on that gun, like it's actually a meaningful part of the weapon.

I agree. I'd also like to see the ARR and ACR have more dispersion at range.

why would you make more inaccurate at range? its a precision weapon. even says it in its description

Lower ads kick proportionally, and you have a deal.

Assault variants should have some characteristics of the Assault Rifles which they imitate, namely less utility at range. The ARR is understandable to a degree, but the ACR in particular is far too effective outside its optimal for its damage and ROF.

So....first the AR has the advantage when hitting shields, and then the RR has the advantage when hitting armor? I....don't understand your point. Also, you're assuming both weapons are fired in each other's optimal, which of course is often not the case as the RR massively out-ranges the AR.

ill explain it further...

the ARs rof is almost twice that of the RR, meaning that if both weapons are fired within optimal of each other, the AR will deplete the shields and start eating into armor before the RR. the RR has to eat through shields first before it can tear into the armor. but by the time it does the AR has had such a big head start, that the RR wont out damage it in time.

add the RRs delay and you have half your shields gone before you fired a shot...

my point is that RR is not as viable in cqc as people claim it is

ill explain it further...

the ARs rof is almost twice that of the RR, meaning that if both weapons are fired within optimal of each other, the AR will deplete the shields and start eating into armor before the RR. the RR has to eat through shields first before it can tear into the armor. but by the time it does the AR has had such a big head start, that the RR wont out damage it in time.

add the RRs delay and you have half your shields gone before you fired a shot...

my point is that RR is not as viable in cqc as people claim it is

But it's not supposed to be even remotely comparable to the AR/PR/whatever in CQC. It has double the range!

I just don't get how CCP or some players can't see how range and DPS should be inversely proportional - in the absence of some other major drawback, like overheating for Amarrian weapons, for example.

The spool up time is supposed to be that drawback, but hilariously was much shorter in the original design, and it is still too short and can be easily compensated for by pre-firing. As a result, while the AR should win the vast majority of engagements in CQC, it doesn't, especially with the still present shield/armor imbalance.

I'd also like to propose for the 328th time that the damn thing get bullet trails. I'm sick of getting ninja'd by a hail of invisible silent bullets while my LR sends out a giant sizzling trail of "KIll me, I"m over here" that can be seen from orbit.

ill explain it further...

the ARs rof is almost twice that of the RR, meaning that if both weapons are fired within optimal of each other, the AR will deplete the shields and start eating into armor before the RR. the RR has to eat through shields first before it can tear into the armor. but by the time it does the AR has had such a big head start, that the RR wont out damage it in time.

add the RRs delay and you have half your shields gone before you fired a shot...

my point is that RR is not as viable in cqc as people claim it is

@those wanting less ADS kick with the RR-

Crouch. Pretty much 0 recoil already. Same goes for the assault. They gave the crouch stance less recoil for a reason, might want to utilize it. It's not like 80% of your targets can hit you back anyway, you out range every light anti-infantry weapon short of the sniper rifle.

It's got basically 0 recoil as is. Even for DUST514.

What's the big deal?

But it's not supposed to be even remotely comparable to the AR/PR/whatever in CQC. It has double the range!

I just don't get how CCP or some players can't see how range and DPS should be inversely proportional - in the absence of some other major drawback, like overheating for Amarrian weapons, for example.

The spool up time is supposed to be that drawback, but hilariously was much shorter in the original design, and it is still too short and can be easily compensated for by pre-firing. As a result, while the AR should win the vast majority of engagements in CQC, it doesn't, especially with the still present shield/armor imbalance.

I'd also like to propose for the 328th time that the damn thing get bullet trails. I'm sick of getting ninja'd by a hail of invisible silent bullets while my LR sends out a giant sizzling trail of "KIll me, I"m over here" that can be seen from orbit.

This is fully dependent on the fit. Also, saying it is so doesn't prove to me that it is so. Please provide the numbers and I'll be happy to accept your argument as accurate. (I'm too lazy to do maths right now)

So in the vein of Rattati asking for feedback on things that can be changed with limited effort, I propose that the RR could still use a few small tweaks. I still feel that performs a little too well overall. I'd like to see just an increase in the charge-up time (0.5 seconds feels appropriate), so that it actually feels like a noticeable trait of the weapon. I'd also like to see the hip-fire recoil increased a bit, so players were more discouraged from using the RR in CQC. So anyway, that's it, just two little things.

ill support under the edict the hybrid weapon be shared between gallente and caldari and the gallente get bonuses to make it like it is now where caldari caldari get bonuses for farther range on hybrids like the shotgun and ar.

you know like eve does.
(ya know the game this game takes place in devs)

also hi summ lol havent seen you in a while

AR rof is 800rpm and dps is 450

RR rof is ~430 or something and dps is ~400

the RR charge up is .30 seconds which against an AR is worth about 135 dps if you both start shooting at the same time while in optimal range of each other.

so for that first second of combat the RR would have a dps more like 265 vs the ARs 450 because its not doing any damage yet for the first .30 seconds.

You must be new welcome to Dust 514. Did you know when the Rail Rifle was released by CCP on its blog it was touted as having the most range and having excellent hipfire dispersion? Yep, turns out ccp wanted it that way. It weaknesses include charge up time, small clip size, and slow fire rate..... While those weaknesses are great hipfire is very much this weapons strength. This is the reasons the other rifles do considerable more dps.


Rail Rifle blog desription that explains the RR is supposed to be great at hip fire.

You just follow that link to the blog up above and it will clear up all of your confusion.

You must be new welcome to Dust 514. Did you know when the Rail Rifle was released by CCP on its blog it was touted as having the most range and having excellent hipfire dispersion? Yep, turns out ccp wanted it that way. It weaknesses include charge up time, small clip size, and slow fire rate..... While those weaknesses are great hipfire is very much this weapons strength. This is the reasons the other rifles do considerable more dps.


Rail Rifle blog desription that explains the RR is supposed to be great at hip fire.

You just follow that link to the blog up above and it will clear up all of your confusion.

CCP has set out to do a lot of things, and designed a LOT of weapons to work a certain way.

Did you know Swarm Launchers used to dumb fire? They were designed to.
Did you know Scout suits were almost impossible to shoot at and HIT at one time? They were designed to.
Did you know Heavies used to solo HAVs? They were designed to.
Did you know we had this same discussion about the Tactical AR at one time?

Been around for over a year. Not talking about the RR's range, that's fine where it is. You do realize the difference between dispersion and recoil, right? Because they're like, two separate things. Hip-fire dispersion can stay super tight, I've got no issues with that. I'd just like to see the hip-fire recoil go up a bit.

And yea, also this:

Only 4 things matter in this game; where every utility weapon registers damage through hitscan:
Accuracy, Range, DPS, and HP.

How easily can you acquire a target?
From how far away can you kill them?
How quickly can you kill them?
Can you tank some shots should they get any off?

The Rail Rifle has a scope, the Auto AR does not. RR wins accuracy.
The Rail Rifle has significantly better range.
The Rail Rifle has comparable DPS to the AR.
And, in the hands of any fairly decent player with 450 or more HP, and possessing ANY kind of damage mitigation, the RR is a tough act for the AR to follow in every capacity.

Numbers vs. practice.
You can't mention numbers without defining circumstances. That's like saying the SR-71 Blackbird can hit Mach 3, but ignoring the fact that it must be in optimal conditions to safely achieve that result.

The RR is a good weapon, but it needs to back off from CQC, and the OPs proposals would help that.
Increase the firing delay, raise the hip fire spread, and back the fk off. It already has a ton of range, why the hell would it be made to be good at CQC as well?

OR simply use the Assault variant for close range. With no sight, it is on an even footing with the AR in terms of accuracy, it has increased RoF to slightly reduce the DPS gap, and I would reduce the fire delay, and hurt long range accuracy for the assault variant to keep it inline with it's purpose.