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What if we gave Logis the same slot count across tiers

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Cody Sietz SVER True Blood Dirt Nap Squad. 3413	Posted - 2014.06.24 23:06:00 - [1] - Quote And just increased CPU/PG(as we do now) The Logi has crappy base stats, and makes up for this by using its slots to compensate(which cost a ton of isk) so I say we give the slots and let them figure it out. "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 504	Posted - 2014.06.24 23:10:00 - [2] - Quote Honestly, that should be all roles. Give them between ADV/PRO number of slots but each tier just increases available CPU/PG.
Cody Sietz SVER True Blood Dirt Nap Squad. 3413	Posted - 2014.06.24 23:10:00 - [3] - Quote Of course, I think Assault should have slightly better base stats(because of it's slightly lower slot count, and it does, but could use more ehp IMO) "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
Cody Sietz SVER True Blood Dirt Nap Squad. 3413	Posted - 2014.06.24 23:12:00 - [4] - Quote Kallas Hallytyr wrote: Honestly, that should be all roles. Give them between ADV/PRO number of slots but each tier just increases available CPU/PG. I don't know if it would work it all suits, I'd like to see it work like that, but I think it should be tested before giving to everyone(mainly with the Logi and the commando) "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 507	Posted - 2014.06.24 23:38:00 - [5] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: Kallas Hallytyr wrote: Honestly, that should be all roles. Give them between ADV/PRO number of slots but each tier just increases available CPU/PG. I don't know if it would work it all suits, I'd like to see it work like that, but I think it should be tested before giving to everyone(mainly with the Logi and the commando) Well, it should either be implemented for everyone or no one, though not necessarily immediately. Tested for sure, but every suit should follow the same basic progression (everyone gets increased slot layout, or everyone gets the CPU/PG progression.) Why should it only be Logi/Commando?
Booby Tuesdays Ahrendee Mercenaries 584	Posted - 2014.06.24 23:40:00 - [6] - Quote Wouldn't this be a nerf to Min and Amarr Logis? Min is the most versatile, but also the squishiest. Amarr is the slowest, and has less slots, but has the sidearm. You propose taking the versatility and unique rolls out of the Logi suits? Would all Logis gain a sidearm in this proposal? Melee Weapon of Choice: Nokia-3310 Prof. V
Cody Sietz SVER True Blood Dirt Nap Squad. 3413	Posted - 2014.06.24 23:46:00 - [7] - Quote Booby Tuesdays wrote: Wouldn't this be a nerf to Min and Amarr Logis? Min is the most versatile, but also the squishiest. Amarr is the slowest, and has less slots, but has the sidearm. You propose taking the versatility and unique rolls out of the Logi suits? Would all Logis gain a sidearm in this proposal? I propose no such thing. Just to add more slots to the STD and ADV. @Kallas, I think it could ruin the assault/heavy/scout at lower tiers and possibly make them OP. The Commando only gets 4 slots anyway, that's why I suggest it be added in. "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 507	Posted - 2014.06.25 00:24:00 - [8] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: @Kallas, I think it could ruin the assault/heavy/scout at lower tiers and possibly make them OP. The Commando only gets 4 slots anyway, that's why I suggest it be added in. Based on what, besides intuition, do you feel it would make Assaults/Heavies/Scouts OP but not Logistics/Commandos? Again, if one would be OP/UP, why would that others not be the same? Surely that would be part of the balancing act, making sure each specialisation had the right amount of slots and available fitting?
Cody Sietz SVER True Blood Dirt Nap Squad. 3413	Posted - 2014.06.25 01:32:00 - [9] - Quote Kallas Hallytyr wrote: Cody Sietz wrote: @Kallas, I think it could ruin the assault/heavy/scout at lower tiers and possibly make them OP. The Commando only gets 4 slots anyway, that's why I suggest it be added in. Based on what, besides intuition, do you feel it would make Assaults/Heavies/Scouts OP but not Logistics/Commandos? Again, if one would be OP/UP, why would that others not be the same? Surely that would be part of the balancing act, making sure each specialisation had the right amount of slots and available fitting? In the limited space we have, yes I do feel those suits would become OP. Simply because dust is in a end game state, and the DEVs are trying to fix the game without breaking it. We just don't have the time and I doubt CCP wants to invest the resources to throw stuff at the wall and see what sticks. The Heavy/Assault/Scout have good enough base stats and with the exception if the assault suit, have a large CPU/PG pool to get a lot of having a few extra slots at low tiers. The commando has a low slot count anyway and it just a sub par suit, so this may be a way to make it good at all tiers instead of just usable at Proto. "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 508	Posted - 2014.06.25 02:17:00 - [10] - Quote But again, why are you assuming we just take X slot layout from all of them: why not take PRO Commando layout, ADV Logi layout, ADV Assault layout, etc? That's the thing, if you're going to balance one suit around this style of progression, the others following suit is less work, overall, since the trail has been blazed - and all of it is just numbers and balancing them, which is exactly what CCP/Rattati is doing right now.

Booby Tuesdays Ahrendee Mercenaries 585	Posted - 2014.06.25 03:54:00 - [11] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: Booby Tuesdays wrote: Wouldn't this be a nerf to Min and Amarr Logis? Min is the most versatile, but also the squishiest. Amarr is the slowest, and has less slots, but has the sidearm. You propose taking the versatility and unique rolls out of the Logi suits? Would all Logis gain a sidearm in this proposal? I propose no such thing. Just to add more slots to the STD and ADV. @Kallas, I think it could ruin the assault/heavy/scout at lower tiers and possibly make them OP. The Commando only gets 4 slots anyway, that's why I suggest it be added in. Hmmm... This is an interesting proposition then. It could make the Basic suit much more viable than it is now. My only concern is the lack of motivation to Proto a suit when all you are missing is some extra CPU and Grid, which I could make up for with core skills and modules. Melee Weapon of Choice: Nokia-3310 Prof. V
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 8567	Posted - 2014.06.25 05:12:00 - [12] - Quote I always thought it should work this way for all suits. Give them proto number of slots to all tiers so everyone can have the freedom to create niche playstyles, but have better CPU/PG values as you go up the tiers so proto is still the best. Amarr are the good guys.
Roger Cordill The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 372	Posted - 2014.06.25 05:15:00 - [13] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: I always thought it should work this way for all suits. Give them proto number of slots to all tiers so everyone can have the freedom to create niche playstyles, but have better CPU/PG values as you go up the tiers so proto is still the best. Or, as it's being done in Legion, Go full tiercide EDIT: I mean, they might as well do it, start on Legion balance in dust, ya know?
OP FOTM Commando Perkone Caldari State 11	Posted - 2014.06.25 05:58:00 - [14] - Quote Disagree. Gallente needs to have less high slots. Caldari needs to have less low slots. Minmatar needs more balanced slots. Amarr could probably have 4 high slots instead of 3 though. Sorry but I really don't like this idea. My Gallente NEEDS his 5 low slots. Don't nerf my goddamn Gallogi.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 3553	Posted - 2014.06.25 13:54:00 - [15] - Quote OP FOTM wrote: Disagree. Gallente needs to have less high slots. Caldari needs to have less low slots. Minmatar needs more balanced slots. Amarr could probably have 4 high slots instead of 3 though. Sorry but I really don't like this idea. My Gallente NEEDS his 5 low slots. Don't nerf my goddamn Gallogi. I think he means by race, so all the gallente suits would have one layout, all the minmatar the same (but a different one from gallente) layout, etc etc. It's not a bad idea, assuming enough time could be spent balancing it (which is the story of Dust's life, now). (The godfather of tactical logistics)
OP FOTM Commando Perkone Caldari State 46	Posted - 2014.06.25 20:11:00 - [16] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: I think he means by race, so all the gallente suits would have one layout, all the minmatar the same (but a different one from gallente) layout, etc etc. It's not a bad idea, assuming enough time could be spent balancing it (which is the story of Dust's life, now). Unfortunately that would just make Scouts OP as ****. There's a reason they all have 6 slots, Logis have 7 or 8, Heavies have 5. But the Minmatar could use an extra low slot. I mean look at this pathetic crap: http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/0/5139
Cody Sietz SVER True Blood Dirt Nap Squad. 3416	Posted - 2014.06.25 20:22:00 - [17] - Quote OP FOTM wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: I think he means by race, so all the gallente suits would have one layout, all the minmatar the same (but a different one from gallente) layout, etc etc. It's not a bad idea, assuming enough time could be spent balancing it (which is the story of Dust's life, now). Unfortunately that would just make Scouts OP as ***. There's a reason they all have 6 slots, Logis have 7 or 8, Heavies have 5. But the Minmatar could use an extra low slot. I mean look at this pathetic crap: http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/0/5139 Again, no. I mean the Logis of each race would gain the slot count of their higher tiers, while only gaining more CPU/PG. So a STD and ADV Gallente Logi would go from 0/2 and 2/3 to 3/5. All Caldari Logi suits would have a 5/4 set up and so on. "I do agree with you there though. shudders*" -Arkena Wyrnspire
Vicious Minotaur Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 982	Posted - 2014.06.25 20:25:00 - [18] - Quote OP FOTM wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: I think he means by race, so all the gallente suits would have one layout, all the minmatar the same (but a different one from gallente) layout, etc etc. It's not a bad idea, assuming enough time could be spent balancing it (which is the story of Dust's life, now). Unfortunately that would just make Scouts OP as ****. There's a reason they all have 6 slots, Logis have 7 or 8, Heavies have 5. But the Minmatar could use an extra low slot. I mean look at this pathetic crap: http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/0/5139 Not so. Gallente scouts at proto have 6 slots (2h/4l), so under the idea proposed, Gallente scouts at standard level, would have 6 slots instead of their current 4. Of course, CPU/PG are a huge balancing factor that will prevent you from making optimal use of ALL slots at STD/ADV levels. Each suit would have proto level mod slots (& equipment?) in accordance with their respective race AND role. CPU/PG are what progresses from STD--->PRO. I support the idea, but across every role. It would decrease the large gap across tiers, help new players, and potentially help against protostomping. I am a minotaur.
Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 523	Posted - 2014.06.25 20:27:00 - [19] - Quote The idea, as I understand it, is as follows: 1 GalLogi layout 1 GalAslt layout 1 GalSent layout 1 GalScout layout 1 GalCom layout 1 AmLogi... And so on.
Stefan Stahl Seituoda Taskforce Command 623	Posted - 2014.06.25 20:54:00 - [20] - Quote Kallas Hallytyr wrote: Honestly, that should be all roles. Give them between ADV/PRO number of slots but each tier just increases available CPU/PG. I've been a proponent of this concept for about a year. Make it happen.

Cody Sietz SVER True Blood Dark Taboo 3518	Posted - 2014.07.09 19:47:00 - [21] - Quote Revive? "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
Cody Sietz SVER True Blood Dark Taboo 3518	Posted - 2014.07.09 19:48:00 - [22] - Quote Kallas Hallytyr wrote: The idea, as I understand it, is as follows: 1 GalLogi layout 1 GalAslt layout 1 GalSent layout 1 GalScout layout 1 GalCom layout 1 AmLogi... And so on. Maybe in the future, but for now, just Logi and commando. "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
aaaasdff ertgfdd Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic 69	Posted - 2014.07.09 22:11:00 - [23] - Quote Kallas Hallytyr wrote: Honestly, that should be all roles. Give them between ADV/PRO number of slots but each tier just increases available CPU/PG. You have got to be brand new to dust. Dude we want our slots. What you are, talkimg about takes away freedom and choice. No. We want our choice. We want our unique slot loadout. We want our ability to choose. We dont want to be CODed.
Pvt Numnutz Prophets of the Velocirapture 1682	Posted - 2014.07.09 22:40:00 - [24] - Quote I'm wary of tiercide because of what it did to vehicles.
Lorhak Gannarsein Legio DXIV 4121	Posted - 2014.07.10 00:02:00 - [25] - Quote I have one potential issue with this: shield suits and fitting mods. Now, I'm not sure offhand but my gut feeling is that with fitting mods in the equation a shield suit can have a vastly superior tank than armour suits, in a way that armour suits just can't replicate. CCP Rattati ily! AmLogi 5 GÇó AmAss 5 GÇó AmSent 4 GÇó CalScout 5 CalLogi, you're next!
Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 616	Posted - 2014.07.10 16:11:00 - [26] - Quote aaaasdff ertgfdd wrote: Kallas Hallytyr wrote: Honestly, that should be all roles. Give them between ADV/PRO number of slots but each tier just increases available CPU/PG. You have got to be brand new to dust. Dude we want our slots. What you are, talkimg about takes away freedom and choice. No. We want our choice. We want our unique slot loadout. We want our ability to choose. We dont want to be CODed. Not new, and you must be a moron! What I was saying was that there would be a slot layout unique to each race's role. Each role would have 4 layouts, one for each race, and that would still maintain a lot loadout options, whilst flattening the power curve of STD - PRO by making PG/CPU the determining factor for how much can be fitted. I don't want to be COD'd, I hate that worthless derivative drivel. That does not mean that all ideas that move away from the current system are COD based.
ZDub 303 Escrow Removal and Acquisition Dark Taboo 3093	Posted - 2014.07.10 16:45:00 - [27] - Quote I've been suggesting a change like this for a long time. It could be a good compromise between tiercide and what we have now. Weapons have about a 10% increase in power per level, and I think most of use consider that generally balanced and engaging. A similar situation for basic and adv suits could make it quite powerful. Balance it such that: Basic suits can run full basic modules + maybe 1 advanced module or weapon. Advanced suits can fun full advanced modules and weapons, and can make sacrifices to fit proto gear. Proto suits can run mostly (80%ish or so?) proto mods and can fill the blanks with adv/basic gear. Fitting bonuses like the medium suits have (weapons for assault and equipment for logi) make it substantially easier to fit higher tier gear of that specialty, it makes said bonus useful and engaging.
lee corwood Knights Of Ender RISE of LEGION 897	Posted - 2014.07.10 17:13:00 - [28] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: OP FOTM wrote: Disagree. Gallente needs to have less high slots. Caldari needs to have less low slots. Minmatar needs more balanced slots. Amarr could probably have 4 high slots instead of 3 though. Sorry but I really don't like this idea. My Gallente NEEDS his 5 low slots. Don't nerf my goddamn Gallogi. I think he means by race, so all the gallente suits would have one layout, all the minmatar the same (but a different one from gallente) layout, etc etc. It's not a bad idea, assuming enough time could be spent balancing it (which is the story of Dust's life, now). I might have been misunderstanding their intentions then. They mean to normalize all slots on logis of specific races tiered to levels not uniform across the board? Is that correct? Minmatar Logisis \| Heavy lover. Ping for video services.


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