DUST Search - Project Legion and item injection economy

Malkai Inos wrote:

Roger Cordill wrote:

Malkai Inos wrote:

CCP Z already confirmed that he wants to abolish any P2W MTX so i'm pretty sure AUR gear as well as boosters go right into the bin, leaving mostly vanity and mild convenience offerings as likely revenue streams.

That's actually one of the things in Legion I'm really exited about, provided he can convince the higher-ups of the viability.

But the thing is neither of them is P2W, so why toss them?

1. Because I hate them. Lol

2. Because, in the most inflexible definition of the term, they are.

AUR gear, when viewed from within the confines of the game, translates into a free (since AUR is not a in game currency in that sense and won't be in Legion afaik) and abundant source of items which are otherwise inherently scarce and valuable. This alone is three strikes and out. The fact that faction stuff is identical in function doesn't change that since getting it does not circumvent the in-game economy. Its means of aquisition varies from ISK gear but still happenes within the boundaries of the game.

The aquisition of AUR gear does not.

The case of boosters is a bit more murky since the extra SP does not necessarily translate into a permanent in-game advantage. But when you understand SP as a form of resource then the question of whether or not the extra SP leads to any advantages becomes subsidiary. Buying in-game resources for real world currency is prototypical for p2w models.

The only way to save at least active boosters into legion (which I don't think is a worthwhile thing to do, mind you) would be to change their multiplier to deduct from the weekly cap just like normal active SP so that it becomes a pure convenience item without any capacity to generate more SP than otherwise possible.

Pages: 1 :: [one page]

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
trollsroyce Ametat Security Amarr Empire 701	Posted - 2014.06.24 21:18:00 - [1] - Quote Project Legion is a great opportunity to get rid of [RL cash] injected items. Back when Uprising launched, several players and even some corporations went all in on the RL cash items to support their group: they would donate the ISK to corp and instead opt to run p2w gear. The corporations would receive a much needed economical boost based on their players' ability to fork out cash. In practise, this is pay to win on the economic side of the game. I don't think this fits well into the player effort based economy of EVE. Useful items, at least the equivalent of current proto level, should be made by players for players. This allows a shift towards a functioning supply-demand market in the long run and allows Legion to blend in with the New Eden economy. I think a functioning player industry requires that good gear has to be manufactured (or salvaged, whatever the mechanic becomes) through player effort. Forking out cash should never grant equal to manufactured gear. This has to be done right in order to create a CCP trademark sandbox. Make this right in Legion.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8805	Posted - 2014.06.24 21:36:00 - [2] - Quote Source: http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/the-new-eden-store/ CCP could take what they did for Eve Online: Kronos and apply it to Legion if they want players to be motivated into spending AUR. The Eve Store is a perfect example. Vanity items such a paint job for the suits is a good start. Another, more consumable alternative, is a paint job of the weapons and vehicles which, like the paint BPCs of the Eve Store, require an actual item to be processed and then emerge as a customized consumable. Since vehicles like the HAV, LAV, and Dropship have a relatively long life cycle (the moment they are created to the moment they are destroyed), those are good assets to start with. Imagine seeing Cat Merc driving around with a Hell-No Kitty HAV. XD On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Aighun Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 907	Posted - 2014.06.24 22:32:00 - [3] - Quote trollsroyce wrote: In practise, this is pay to win on the economic side of the game. I don't think this fits well into the player effort based economy of EVE. PLEX
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 11125	Posted - 2014.06.24 22:34:00 - [4] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Source: http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/the-new-eden-store/ CCP could take what they did for Eve Online: Kronos and apply it to Legion if they want players to be motivated into spending AUR. The Eve Store is a perfect example. Vanity items such a paint job for the suits is a good start. Another, more consumable alternative, is a paint job of the weapons and vehicles which, like the paint BPCs of the Eve Store, require an actual item to be processed and then emerge as a customized consumable. Since vehicles like the HAV, LAV, and Dropship have a relatively long life cycle (the moment they are created to the moment they are destroyed), those are good assets to start with. Imagine seeing Cat Merc driving around with a Hell-No Kitty HAV. XD Damnit I was going to do that after watching a couple of Day Z vids with Hello Kitty cars in them..... That would be epic! " Those men died loving duty more than they feared death..... they died well." -Templar Ouryon after Iesa III
Roger Cordill The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 372	Posted - 2014.06.25 03:19:00 - [5] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Source: http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/the-new-eden-store/ CCP could take what they did for Eve Online: Kronos and apply it to Legion if they want players to be motivated into spending AUR. The Eve Store is a perfect example. Vanity items such a paint job for the suits is a good start. Another, more consumable alternative, is a paint job of the weapons and vehicles which, like the paint BPCs of the Eve Store, require an actual item to be processed and then emerge as a customized consumable. Since vehicles like the HAV, LAV, and Dropship have a relatively long life cycle (the moment they are created to the moment they are destroyed), those are good assets to start with. Imagine seeing Cat Merc driving around with a Hell-No Kitty HAV. XD No, I got a better one: Me in a aquatic themed Maddy, and the blaster says BLUB (read: FEAR ME) :D
God Hates Lags Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 1249	Posted - 2014.06.25 03:41:00 - [6] - Quote Aighun wrote: trollsroyce wrote: In practise, this is pay to win on the economic side of the game. I don't think this fits well into the player effort based economy of EVE. PLEX If your point is that PLEX in Eve is pay2win, then bear in mind that you have to keep spending money on plex, but with BPOS you pay once for a permanent advantage. This is bad game design. "Look what I destroyed in two days" Kane Spero Wolfica stole my signature
Roger Cordill The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 372	Posted - 2014.06.25 06:04:00 - [7] - Quote God Hates Lags wrote: Aighun wrote: trollsroyce wrote: In practise, this is pay to win on the economic side of the game. I don't think this fits well into the player effort based economy of EVE. PLEX If your point is that PLEX in Eve is pay2win, then bear in mind that you have to keep spending money on plex, but with BPOS you pay once for a permanent advantage. This is bad game design. 1: He most likely meant that plex means that saying that it doesn't fit is bullshit (in which I also throw in the BPO's for the new ship skins). 2: If BPO's were actual BPO's, or even BPO's that only were skins and you still had to have a frame/hull/turret/weapon still, I'd say that would be bullshit. How it is now? Yup. Especially since suits are going tiercide (the one thing Z got right).
Malkai Inos Any Given Day 1452	Posted - 2014.06.25 06:15:00 - [8] - Quote CCP Z already confirmed that he wants to abolish any P2W MTX so i'm pretty sure AUR gear as well as boosters go right into the bin, leaving mostly vanity and mild convenience offerings as likely revenue streams. That's actually one of the things in Legion I'm really exited about, provided he can convince the higher-ups of the viability. You can take a benign object, -you can take a cheeseburger and deconstruct it to its source...
Roger Cordill The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 372	Posted - 2014.06.25 06:24:00 - [9] - Quote Malkai Inos wrote: CCP Z already confirmed that he wants to abolish any P2W MTX so i'm pretty sure AUR gear as well as boosters go right into the bin, leaving mostly vanity and mild convenience offerings as likely revenue streams. That's actually one of the things in Legion I'm really exited about, provided he can convince the higher-ups of the viability. But the thing is neither of them is P2W, so why toss them?
Malkai Inos Any Given Day 1452	Posted - 2014.06.25 06:52:00 - [10] - Quote Roger Cordill wrote: Malkai Inos wrote: CCP Z already confirmed that he wants to abolish any P2W MTX so i'm pretty sure AUR gear as well as boosters go right into the bin, leaving mostly vanity and mild convenience offerings as likely revenue streams. That's actually one of the things in Legion I'm really exited about, provided he can convince the higher-ups of the viability. But the thing is neither of them is P2W, so why toss them? 1. Because I hate them. 2. Because, in the most inflexible definition of the term, they are. AUR gear, when viewed from within the confines of the game, translates into a free (since AUR is not a in game currency in that sense and won't be in Legion afaik) and abundant source of items which are otherwise inherently scarce and valuable. This alone is three strikes and out. The fact that faction stuff is identical in function doesn't change that since getting it does not circumvent the in-game economy. Its means of aquisition varies from ISK gear but still happenes within the boundaries of the game. The aquisition of AUR gear does not. The case of boosters is a bit more murky since the extra SP does not necessarily translate into a permanent in-game advantage. But when you understand SP as a form of resource then the question of whether or not the extra SP leads to any advantages becomes subsidiary. Buying in-game resources for real world currency is prototypical for p2w models. The only way to save at least active boosters into legion (which I don't think is a worthwhile thing to do, mind you) would be to change their multiplier to deduct from the weekly cap just like normal active SP so that it becomes a pure convenience item without any capacity to generate more SP than otherwise possible. You can take a benign object, -you can take a cheeseburger and deconstruct it to its source...

Roger Cordill The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 372	Posted - 2014.06.25 07:47:00 - [11] - Quote Malkai Inos wrote: Roger Cordill wrote: Malkai Inos wrote: CCP Z already confirmed that he wants to abolish any P2W MTX so i'm pretty sure AUR gear as well as boosters go right into the bin, leaving mostly vanity and mild convenience offerings as likely revenue streams. That's actually one of the things in Legion I'm really exited about, provided he can convince the higher-ups of the viability. But the thing is neither of them is P2W, so why toss them? 1. Because I hate them. 2. Because, in the most inflexible definition of the term, they are. AUR gear, when viewed from within the confines of the game, translates into a free (since AUR is not a in game currency in that sense and won't be in Legion afaik) and abundant source of items which are otherwise inherently scarce and valuable. This alone is three strikes and out. The fact that faction stuff is identical in function doesn't change that since getting it does not circumvent the in-game economy. Its means of aquisition varies from ISK gear but still happenes within the boundaries of the game. The aquisition of AUR gear does not. The case of boosters is a bit more murky since the extra SP does not necessarily translate into a permanent in-game advantage. But when you understand SP as a form of resource then the question of whether or not the extra SP leads to any advantages becomes subsidiary. Buying in-game resources for real world currency is prototypical for p2w models. The only way to save at least active boosters into legion (which I don't think is a worthwhile thing to do, mind you) would be to change their multiplier to deduct from the weekly cap just like normal active SP so that it becomes a pure convenience item without any capacity to generate more SP than otherwise possible. 1: That's not a legit reason 2: So I assume that you hate both the fact that PLEX exists, and the fact that you can use said PLEX ISK to buy implants? 3: Wait, hold up: You think that items will be rare? lol
Malkai Inos Any Given Day 1453	Posted - 2014.06.25 08:02:00 - [12] - Quote Roger Cordill wrote: 1: That's not a legit reason And I acknowledged that fact by using a smiley. Roger Cordill wrote: 2: So I assume that you hate both the fact that PLEX exists, and the fact that you can use said PLEX ISK to buy implants? PLEX is not a means to generate ISK or items out of thin air but a value which can be exchanged for those things. If nobody is willing or able to sell me something then having plex does silch for me. Roger Cordill wrote: 3: Wait, hold up: You think that items will be rare? lol Scarce != rare. You can take a benign object, -you can take a cheeseburger and deconstruct it to its source...


Pages: 1 :: [one page]