Where is the skill tree outline he has laid down.

While I am wholly against BPO dropsuits I am certainly hoping to provide some adequate feed back on the issue.

Personally I feel his simplified Skill tree is disastrous, if anything the skill tree needs to be more indepth and more integral to our characters development in all things, much akin to EVE's skill trees.

I don't think this even the problem with Z's idea.

Let's start by looking at the positives of Z's orginal idea.

1. Choosing your faction after choosing your frame variation.
To me personally this is the system's biggest positive. If we are going to give players such a wide of choice of roles weapons, modules and equipment to play with, it makes a lot of sense to let players acclimatise to the frames limitations, pros, cons a d unique points before the limitations and unique points of the factions get involved.

You can make a much more informed choice going from CONCORD/non-descript Assault Frame to Factional Assault Frame, then jumping straight in at the Factional Level. It also makes sense lore wise because there are going to operational similarities that would allow an Assault Frame user to adjust to a new faction suit then say someone who operates a sentinel suit.

2. Adding an extra level of depth AFTER Factional Frames
I don't need to go into this too much, but it's perfect. It makes your players feel like they are really something.

3. Replacing 5lvl nodes with 1lvl nodes where applicable.
Once again this is a fantastic idea, not every node needs to be 5lvls, do I really need to train 5 different levels to use 1 suit? With the introduction of tiercide, there simply no need.

4. Structured progression

The idea of having a skill tree that makes it easier to choose and specialise into a role, should be a no brainer. How Z is achieving it, however, is not the best.

It's important we don't overlook these points when asking Z to reconsider his current design.

Still could we provide a link in the OP for information on his proposed skill system, I currently don't know where to look for it.

So what you're saying is, the same FF vid that we've dissected to the nth degree in the progression sticky.

He is not going to listen IWS. Hubris is bliss at CCPs offices.

WoW influences are more important than the core values of New Eden.

Kthxbai.

I'll jump in the middle of this. I think spectral's point is that what we're seeing is V2. IF the original plan was as bad as you suggest, then V1 was even more removed from the core principles of New Eden. While it is reassuring that the concept has evolved, the question still must be asked: what understanding is there of New Eden for progression to have started where it did, to end up here where it is only after CPM intervention? I think it's a reasonable assumption then to relate it to WoW, in that WoW has been commercially successful. Assuming that a fundamental understanding of what New Eden is was not the bar to which these conceptual decisions were measured, then it was not the heart of New Eden, but rather the commercial potential of simplifying things that was the deciding factor. While it may not be exactly Warcraft, from the perspective way down here it looks to be more Warcraft than not. For sure not New Eden.

With all that said, hell, wtf do we down here know? We're still looking for more of a road map or what the concept it/was/will be just to try to offer conversation on the topic. I thought that was the point of the sticky up top, that at the moment is just collecting dust---no pun intended.

Again, not trying to rustle feathers. Just hopefully clarifying. I could be wrong there too, so eh. lol. =\

All the best,

- me.

If you folks are reducing EVE to the battle parts, then we-¦re gonna have a bad time.

I LOVE the adrenaline of fighting, but i respect that the ship, modules, rigs and ammo that i use were mined, manufactured and sold by someone(s).

EVE is not 99% boredom to those people, they enjoy the game in a whole different way, a way that COULD be implemented on Legion and bring a public that like games such as Civilization / Masters of Orion / Starcraft / X-Com (the old one) and they would have a TON of fun while the game progresses, all at the same time that people are shooting each other on the face (hopefully, with balanced equip/stats learned from Dust).

Again i have no beef with the person behind CCP Z, but the development ideas showed so far are terrifying in the sense that:

- It doesn-¦t respect internal consistency of the New Eden franchise. If you-¦re new to a different culture, learn it and make some translations before trying to impose your own language.

- His "reluctancy" to talk to people who can provide good feedback (If CPM can-¦t talk to him properly, imagine a the proper forum feedback among a horde of trolls) may indicate a "Solitary Magic Solution" that we know is not very effective these days, or worst, a "Fack it, i-¦m doing my way cause i have a blank check"

- If version 2.0 is a fs far from new eden reality as it appears to be, i don-¦t even want to know what 1.0 was. My inner thinking still goes to "Need For Speed World" (that i played for a few months to be fair)

I know he has his job and have no obligation to talk or give any sort of satisfaction to players, but having "hurt feelings i-¦ll hide in my shell" is not productive, simple as that. Want to have an honest discussion of general ideas on a public space, or want to make videos showing his views and later analyzing feedback on comments? GREAT!

But if you can-¦t take the heat, either HTFU (Turn captions On) or stop teasing us into thinking we can contribute with things and do your own stuff, present the finished product to the public, and don-¦t complain when reviews come up.

Even with all the things that were said, i still don-¦t know the "Idea" of the game.

From what i got so far, we-¦ll have a resource collection game with player conflict mediated by some sort of trade betwwen players, similar to DayZ, The Forest, Silkroad and competition modes where people shoot each other in the face in "arena" like places.

There are games that do these things already, where is the "uniqueness" of Legion? By that i don-¦t mean doing something that has never been tried before, but simply arranging things in a way that make THIS game something to be played instead of THAT game.

Pointing that doing stuff without communicating with others properly (by that i mean CPM) is a bad bad bad sign, is not an emotional rant.

I still like to see what his progress is so far on the proposed skill progression system he came up with and if any changes have been made since he first brought it up.

I just like to reiterate what the vocal players have previously stated to CCP Z. We don't want to be forced into training up certain suits we don't like just to access a weapon for a suit we do like. If the progression has changed in any way that gets away from that system, then I will be a happy clam. If not, bummer. But either way, we all like to know. Showing the ENTIRE skill progression system will go a long way in clearing up any confusion.

At the same time I have to recognize that he is a busy man. If he has more important things to deal with in order to get Legion up and running, then that's ok. I just hope he remembers to come back to us before Legion is greenlit.

Lets be honest IWS I was going down the CCP set certificates paths until a more veteran player suggested I scrap all that they told me to think I thought I knew.......

This is true. But even veteran players had to start somewhere. We were completely confused over 2 years ago when we started in closed beta. But the system was different back then and things evolved over time as we adapted to those changes.

New players on the other hand don't have the luxury of such experience. They don't understand how everything got to where it is and why this or that is happening. This is what NPE is for and the certificate system (or ISIS as an alternative) is an important first step in helping those New Players to at least survive the first week of gameplay while they learn to get a handle of things. Some players can catch on without any help but not all players are like that. Some players just need a sign to point them in the general direction to get started and the rest they can handle by themselves.

Off topic (sort of): I got a clearance rack copy of Crysis 3 over at Kmart last weekend. Started up the campaign and first option up was to go through the training simulator or not. I did as it's been a while since I played Crysis. Yeah, I'm lagging behind the world. Whatever.

I learned how to:
- Walk from point A to B
- Crouch
- Jump
- Power Jump
- Power Jump + Grapple Climb
- Run
- Power Slide
- Toggle Armor
- Toggle Stealth Mode
- Stealth Attack
- Aim and Fire
- ADS and Fire
- Manually switch from single-fire to automatic
- Manually access in-game sub-screen to apply silencer
- Toggle Primary/Secondary Weapon
- Reload
- Throw Grenade (with targeting trajectory!)
- Notified that grenades cook for 4 seconds before I killed myself
- Restock Ammo from Supply Crates
- Toggle Visor
- Access Visor Hack
- Toggle Nano-Vision (infrared style)

...all within a very minimally staged walking path that only appeared upon completion of the requested task at hand. Oh, and there was this sexy AURA type voice coaching me along to boot. At the end of the less than 10-minute run-through, I was able to play a very generic stage with a few walls to climb, a single turret to either hack or destroy, and about 5 reds to kill one way or another. Oh. I could see my feet too ;)

Then I started the game proper.

That's neither here nor there. Maybe. or... hm...

- me.