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Pvt Numnutz Watchdoge Explosives 1515	Posted - 2014.06.20 18:17:00 - [1] - Quote I have had an idea on a compromise for a while now. I'm sure that most mercs feel that it is the missile turret that makes the ads op, at least for infantry players. Av are saying the whole ship is op but if the missile turrets power per shot were decreased would you all still feel the assault dropship is op? The compromise being, Reduce small missile turret damage per missile Increase small missile turret clip size This keeps the same damage potential per clip, but requires gunner accuracy to deliver. This will also require dropships to remain in the engagement area for longer to apply the full damage, giving av more chance to interfere in the dropships run and give them more of a chance vs dropships. Haven't thought up exact numbers yet but thought I'd bring this up for discussion. I am going to be talking to my gunners about this to get their input as to what they would feel fair. Personally I think it shouldn't be too low on the damage, enough to still be able to get in and out relatively quickly but long enough to make a difference. I don't want to have to go into hover mode to kill a single merc, nor do I think it should take over 4 missiles to kill an assault suit. Thought maybe it should take more than two. Discuss.
LUGMOS YELLOW JESUS EXP FORCE 545	Posted - 2014.06.20 18:23:00 - [2] - Quote Blaster should be better Anti infantry, so yes. My understanding is rails are AV, blasters are AI, and missles are supposed to be ok at both, but not the best. I think small rails should have more direct damage than missles, and blasters could have a tighter spread to make them more effective vs infantry. Quafe A question doesn't always have an answer, but a problem does, So what is DUST? A problem or a question?
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 2098	Posted - 2014.06.20 18:24:00 - [3] - Quote Are high-end birds still ~~immune~~ obscenely resistant to Proto Swarms? I haven't run into any yet since the fix yesterday. An ADS isn't OP if we can shoot it down with Swarms. Shoot scout with yes... - Ripley Riley
Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 2282	Posted - 2014.06.20 18:28:00 - [4] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Are high-end birds still ~~immune~~ obscenely resistant to Proto Swarms? I haven't run into any yet since the fix yesterday. An ADS isn't OP if we can shoot it down with Swarms. He'll no! 4 shots can do the trick for many builds. Python that is. Judge For CPM 1 youtube Twitter @Judge_EVELegion
Seymour KrelbornX Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 97	Posted - 2014.06.20 18:44:00 - [5] - Quote I don't think ADS are OP.... I think teams who don't pull out their own dropships and forge guns are UP.... by choice.

CCP Logibro C C P C C P Alliance 8240	Posted - 2014.06.20 18:46:00 - [6] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Are high-end birds still ~~immune~~ obscenely resistant to Proto Swarms? I haven't run into any yet since the fix yesterday. An ADS isn't OP if we can shoot it down with Swarms. We fixed that. The Proficiency skill should now also be working for Forge Guns and Swarm Launchers against vehicles, so that should also give swarms a boost. CCP Logibro // Patron Saint of Logistics // Distributor of Nanites (a¦á_a¦á)

Pvt Numnutz Watchdoge Explosives 1515	Posted - 2014.06.20 18:54:00 - [7] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Are high-end birds still ~~immune~~ obscenely resistant to Proto Swarms? I haven't run into any yet since the fix yesterday. An ADS isn't OP if we can shoot it down with Swarms. We fixed that. The Proficiency skill should now also be working for Forge Guns and Swarm Launchers against vehicles, so that should also give swarms a boost. But does this mean they have become leas effective against shield vehicles like my python?
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 14713	Posted - 2014.06.20 19:01:00 - [8] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Are high-end birds still ~~immune~~ obscenely resistant to Proto Swarms? I haven't run into any yet since the fix yesterday. An ADS isn't OP if we can shoot it down with Swarms. He'll no! 4 shots can do the trick for many builds. Python that is. 4 shots? So getting off the entire clip, reloading, and firing again? You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.
Ryder Azorria Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 1005	Posted - 2014.06.20 19:05:00 - [9] - Quote Pvt Numnutz wrote: CCP Logibro wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Are high-end birds still ~~immune~~ obscenely resistant to Proto Swarms? I haven't run into any yet since the fix yesterday. An ADS isn't OP if we can shoot it down with Swarms. We fixed that. The Proficiency skill should now also be working for Forge Guns and Swarm Launchers against vehicles, so that should also give swarms a boost. But does this mean they have become leas effective against shield vehicles like my python? No, it wasn't applying at all - so basically, for you, nothing has changed.
Pvt Numnutz Watchdoge Explosives 1515	Posted - 2014.06.20 19:12:00 - [10] - Quote Ryder Azorria wrote: No, it wasn't applying at all - so basically, for you, nothing has changed. Ah that explains alot

Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 2103	Posted - 2014.06.20 19:13:00 - [11] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Are high-end birds still ~~immune~~ obscenely resistant to Proto Swarms? I haven't run into any yet since the fix yesterday. An ADS isn't OP if we can shoot it down with Swarms. He'll no! 4 shots can do the trick for many builds. Python that is. 4 shots? So getting off the entire clip, reloading, and firing again? To be fair, if I could crash an expensive bird with one clip I'd be concerned. The fire interval between volleys is sufficiently small such that when behind a bird I can get my clip into the air before the pilot knows anything's coming. It'd be bad news if that's all it took. Sure, the pilot need only move as I reload to avoid being crashed, but I'm OK with that. He had to move. A single swarmer being able to keep a bird away bird from a spawnpoint or objective is a huge improvement from where we were pre-fix. Shoot scout with yes... - Ripley Riley
calisk galern BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance 2579	Posted - 2014.06.20 19:15:00 - [12] - Quote LUGMOS wrote: Blaster should be better Anti infantry, so yes. My understanding is rails are AV, blasters are AI, and missles are supposed to be ok at both, but not the best. I think small rails should have more direct damage than missles, and blasters could have a tighter spread to make them more effective vs infantry. rails are the best ranged anti-infantry now, they are HORRIBLE av now, missiles are the best for AV now, though good blaster pilots can probably beat them. and blasters are good at killing infantry close up
skippy678 The Phoenix Federation Dark Taboo 2477	Posted - 2014.06.20 19:23:00 - [13] - Quote Pvt Numnutz wrote: I have had an idea on a compromise for a while now. I'm sure that most mercs feel that it is the missile turret that makes the ads op, at least for infantry players. Av are saying the whole ship is op but if the missile turrets power per shot were decreased would you all still feel the assault dropship is op? The compromise being, Reduce small missile turret damage per missile Increase small missile turret clip size This keeps the same damage potential per clip, but requires gunner accuracy to deliver. This will also require dropships to remain in the engagement area for longer to apply the full damage, giving av more chance to interfere in the dropships run and give them more of a chance vs dropships. Haven't thought up exact numbers yet but thought I'd bring this up for discussion. I am going to be talking to my gunners about this to get their input as to what they would feel fair. Personally I think it shouldn't be too low on the damage, enough to still be able to get in and out relatively quickly but long enough to make a difference. I don't want to have to go into hover mode to kill a single merc, nor do I think it should take over 4 missiles to kill an assault suit. Thought maybe it should take more than two. Discuss. Not sure that I would say they are op. They are OP against weak enemies, and not so much against vetrans. I could show you tons of videos where i dont get shot down the whole match, but come in 13th with a 6 and 0. But then i could tell you about matches where i lose 4 ships and spend over two million ISK getting almost 1 shotted by forge guns (with level 5 shields) I dont think the ADS needs any changes except price, but perhaps the price is why it dosent need any changes. But I can see What your sayin! My Youtube Lvl. 2 Forum Warrior Follow:@skippy6gaming #BetaVet
IMMORTAL WAR HERO NECROM0NGERS Caps and Mercs 146	Posted - 2014.06.20 19:39:00 - [14] - Quote im sorry but its a fast pilot and good gunners that make a good dropship Frowned upon by amateurs: The object of war is not to die for your country but make the other bastard die for his. GSP
Tectonic Fusion 1739	Posted - 2014.06.20 19:55:00 - [15] - Quote All I know is I got an ADS to about 10-50 armor, and it got behind a building and all of it's shields were back.
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 878	Posted - 2014.06.20 20:32:00 - [16] - Quote I'm going to blow the dust off my swarms tonight and try them out. Forge vs ADS is fine. My guess is that with the change in proficiency and resistance that proto swarms are in the right place. If so, the only change needed is to reduce the tier differential. Because, that's why.
Pvt Numnutz Watchdoge Explosives 1517	Posted - 2014.06.20 20:33:00 - [17] - Quote IMMORTAL WAR HERO wrote: im sorry but its a fast pilot and good gunners that make a good dropship This is true. I want to discuss this because I would rather this than a huge Nerf to the ads because of perceived over poweredness.
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 878	Posted - 2014.06.20 20:35:00 - [18] - Quote I'd like to see the price of dropships decreased further and collision damage decreased. I blow up my dropship just trying to learn to fly it while I can drive an LAV off a cliff, roll it 5 times and keep on trucking. Because, that's why.
buzzzzzzz killllllllll Sacred Initiative of Combat Killers 563	Posted - 2014.06.20 20:44:00 - [19] - Quote ccp just reduce the fuckin ads price to something like 50k. that is something almost everyone agrees about, and then when you can afford lose one every 3 matches they can be balanced properly Dedicated heavy through the hard times, still supporter of A FULL 1.8 respec and MOAR HEAVY WEAPONS!
Evan Gotabor Prima Gallicus 28	Posted - 2014.06.20 20:46:00 - [20] - Quote Let the price to what it is, reduce the small missile launcher to what they once were (before 1.7, the old proto had more or less the same damages than the militia one). As for the collision damages, yes it should be reduce. I can evade a single dropship trying to ram me, but now, people are doing it two or three at the same time. So you can evade them some time, but sooner or later, one of them can take the upper hand while you take care of the other one (happened to me yesterday while I was trying an incubus with a 120mm complex armor plate to test the efficiency of the new armor skill ; my amount of eHP was equal to a gallente tank without plates) Dropship pilot

Stefan Stahl Seituoda Taskforce Command 602	Posted - 2014.06.20 20:54:00 - [21] - Quote Pvt Numnutz wrote: Reduce small missile turret damage per missile Increase small missile turret clip size. Shouldn't be overdone, but generally this seems like a good idea. Prototype-turrets really wreck infantry in an instant. Less-than-proto turrets are much less of an issue however, so take care not to make those useless.
Takahashi Kashuken Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 7	Posted - 2014.06.20 21:32:00 - [22] - Quote ADS OP lolno
Brotherband REMNANT ENFORCERS 3	Posted - 2014.06.20 22:05:00 - [23] - Quote I would like to point out that I have tried to use the blaster on my ads. The accuracy of the turret makes hitting a target from the air next to impossible. Rail turrets are the same except in reverse they are so accurate that it's hard to hit a target from the air. The turret balances that ccp made are fine for ground vehicles but in the air the turret fixes make all but the missile turret unplayable. I would appreciate a variant or perhaps a drop ship specific blaster and rail turret that has a tighter accuracy.
Evan Gotabor Prima Gallicus 28	Posted - 2014.06.21 07:40:00 - [24] - Quote It depend on what you want to hit, blaster on an incubus is fun, but only against ground turrets and a bit against tanks, which is not logical to say the least. And it give the opportunity to destroy you as you become an easy target. But against vehicle, the top of the line is still the rail turret. As to target infantry, I have the impression fro what I see on the battlefield, that higher your level is on the gallente dropship, the better are your chance to touch as the rate of fire of your rail turret allow you to do a heavy suppression fire on a tight area if you are stable enough. Dropship pilot
Ryme Intrinseca The Rainbow Effect 1374	Posted - 2014.06.21 12:29:00 - [25] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Are high-end birds still ~~immune~~ obscenely resistant to Proto Swarms? I haven't run into any yet since the fix yesterday. An ADS isn't OP if we can shoot it down with Swarms. He'll no! 4 shots can do the trick for many builds. Python that is. 4 shots? So getting off the entire clip, reloading, and firing again? It's a very effective method against DS pilots who have yet to master the 'UP' control.
Ryme Intrinseca The Rainbow Effect 1374	Posted - 2014.06.21 12:35:00 - [26] - Quote buzzzzzzz killllllllll wrote: ccp just reduce the fuckin ads price to something like 50k. that is something almost everyone agrees about No one except ADS pilots agrees about this...
Pvt Numnutz Watchdoge Explosives 1518	Posted - 2014.06.21 14:55:00 - [27] - Quote Stefan Stahl wrote: Pvt Numnutz wrote: Reduce small missile turret damage per missile Increase small missile turret clip size. Shouldn't be overdone, but generally this seems like a good idea. Prototype-turrets really wreck infantry in an instant. Less-than-proto turrets are much less of an issue however, so take care not to make those useless. I'm going to be talking to my gunners to outline some numbers that we feel are fair. Someof the effects this change would probably* have are, Would be harder for a solo pilot to be as effective as they are now Would encourage the use of gunners to maintain the same effectiveness Would decrease dropships tank slightly as solo pilots give up their turrets to fit more tank, they would now need to fit turrets decreasing their tank slightly. While my crew and I use prototype turrets we will bear in mind how adv and std turrets would fair with any numbers we come up with.
Jaysyn Larrisen OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1146	Posted - 2014.06.21 15:00:00 - [28] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Are high-end birds still ~~immune~~ obscenely resistant to Proto Swarms? I haven't run into any yet since the fix yesterday. An ADS isn't OP if we can shoot it down with Swarms. He'll no! 4 shots can do the trick for many builds. Python that is. That's with no hardeners or reppers on, correct? "Endless money forms the sinews of War." - Cicero Skype: jaysyn.larrisen Twitter: @JaysynLarrisen
Benjamin Ciscko Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2360	Posted - 2014.06.21 15:06:00 - [29] - Quote Buff rail range to 450-550 with fall off. Tanker/Logi
Beld Errmon 1693	Posted - 2014.06.21 16:21:00 - [30] - Quote smh inb4 ADS become expensive novelty item that 2 guys with militia swarms can make useless, good forge gunners could already knock them out of the sky with skill, now the most noob friendly weapon in the game can as well. Many people consider me a good pilot and I was already going broke before the recent changes, now its accelerated, not a problem though the moment i can't afford to fly anymore i'll uninstall, 2 years is a good run for any game. Pilot - Tanker - FOTM (insert here)

Riptalis Horizons' Edge Proficiency V. 28	Posted - 2014.06.21 17:24:00 - [31] - Quote skippy678 wrote: Pvt Numnutz wrote: I have had an idea on a compromise for a while now. I'm sure that most mercs feel that it is the missile turret that makes the ads op, at least for infantry players. Av are saying the whole ship is op but if the missile turrets power per shot were decreased would you all still feel the assault dropship is op? The compromise being, Reduce small missile turret damage per missile Increase small missile turret clip size This keeps the same damage potential per clip, but requires gunner accuracy to deliver. This will also require dropships to remain in the engagement area for longer to apply the full damage, giving av more chance to interfere in the dropships run and give them more of a chance vs dropships. Haven't thought up exact numbers yet but thought I'd bring this up for discussion. I am going to be talking to my gunners about this to get their input as to what they would feel fair. Personally I think it shouldn't be too low on the damage, enough to still be able to get in and out relatively quickly but long enough to make a difference. I don't want to have to go into hover mode to kill a single merc, nor do I think it should take over 4 missiles to kill an assault suit. Thought maybe it should take more than two. Discuss. Not sure that I would say they are op. They are OP against weak enemies, and not so much against vetrans. I could show you tons of videos where i dont get shot down the whole match, but come in 13th with a 6 and 0. But then i could tell you about matches where i lose 4 ships and spend over two million ISK getting almost 1 shotted by forge guns (with level 5 shields) I dont think the ADS needs any changes except price, but perhaps the price is why it dosent need any changes. But I can see What your sayin! Agreed. ADS is fine where it is, except price in my opinion. If I'm going against a decent, organized team then it will be a challenge but If I'm going against random people that use MLT and STD forges and Swarms then that's probably a reason why people must complain. Logistics ak.0 ADS Pilot PSN: Riptalis
Mortedeamor Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1595	Posted - 2014.06.21 17:36:00 - [32] - Quote no no they are not when i can chase you around the field making you completely useless with cbr7s and a lav...and 2-3 shot you with wykas..no they are not op they have a perfectly cruel counter again ...personally after my drunkin av stomping spree last night where i went around stomping vehicles with my lav and adv swarm fit and adv forge fit..i think vehicles may be slightly up..or just where they need to be...i dunno...i feel like av just became to easy..all my adv fits are soloing tanks of anylvl............. welcome back to uprising 1.0..im practically insta jibbing **** again . and as the wheel turns ccp makes the same mistakes and we return to where we started only to realize that we are where we have always been hell
MINA Longstrike 904	Posted - 2014.06.21 17:50:00 - [33] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Are high-end birds still ~~immune~~ obscenely resistant to Proto Swarms? I haven't run into any yet since the fix yesterday. An ADS isn't OP if we can shoot it down with Swarms. He'll no! 4 shots can do the trick for many builds. Python that is. 4 shots? So getting off the entire clip, reloading, and firing again? Takes 7 seconds with a commando. Min commandos even get 2 free complex damage mods without stacking penalty. After the first shot if we're aware and don't move we're dead, if we're unaware we need to hope we can move fast enough to gtfo. Shooting swarms isn't 'fire one volley, destroy 600k isk dropship and giggle at stupid people who invested into vehicles'. It takes even less time if an ally is helping. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Ryme Intrinseca The Rainbow Effect 1377	Posted - 2014.06.21 18:26:00 - [34] - Quote Mortedeamor wrote: no no they are not when i can chase you around the field making you completely useless with cbr7s and a lav...and 2-3 shot you with wykas..no they are not op they have a perfectly cruel counter again ...personally after my drunkin av stomping spree last night where i went around stomping vehicles with my lav and adv swarm fit and adv forge fit..i think vehicles may be slightly up..or just where they need to be...i dunno...i feel like av just became to easy..all my adv fits are soloing tanks of anylvl............. welcome back to uprising 1.0..im practically insta jibbing **** again . Tanker spai detected :P
Temias Mercurial Knights Of Ender Proficiency V. 95	Posted - 2014.06.22 17:39:00 - [35] - Quote calisk galern wrote: LUGMOS wrote: Blaster should be better Anti infantry, so yes. My understanding is rails are AV, blasters are AI, and missles are supposed to be ok at both, but not the best. I think small rails should have more direct damage than missles, and blasters could have a tighter spread to make them more effective vs infantry. rails are the best ranged anti-infantry now, they are HORRIBLE av now, missiles are the best for AV now, though good blaster pilots can probably beat them. and blasters are good at killing infantry close up Small rails are horrible AV now? I can cut clean through vehicles, especially dropships, which makes my Icubus quite effective with the bonus to fire rate, but you can do just fine as a gunner in any other dropships against vehicles. The dps on them is... terrifying.
Onesimus Tarsus NoGameNoLife 2153	Posted - 2014.06.22 17:42:00 - [36] - Quote Kdr/wpdr matchmaking renders imbalance impossible... It really do. K/D(r) WP/D(r) matchmaking fixes the whole game. Period.
Texs Red DUST University Ivy League 335	Posted - 2014.06.22 20:02:00 - [37] - Quote Swarms are a dangerous thing to make effect vs dropships, mostly because they are fire and forget vs the intense skill and cost involved with dropships. My opinion: Drop ADS costs so they are more expensive than LAVs but cheaper than tanks.
TechMechMeds Inner.Hell 3670	Posted - 2014.06.22 20:41:00 - [38] - Quote calisk galern wrote: LUGMOS wrote: Blaster should be better Anti infantry, so yes. My understanding is rails are AV, blasters are AI, and missles are supposed to be ok at both, but not the best. I think small rails should have more direct damage than missles, and blasters could have a tighter spread to make them more effective vs infantry. rails are the best ranged anti-infantry now, they are HORRIBLE av now, missiles are the best for AV now, though good blaster pilots can probably beat them. and blasters are good at killing infantry close up Now now, we'll have less of that now. I will spam your face with aurum proto.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 10998	Posted - 2014.06.22 20:50:00 - [39] - Quote DROPSHIP PILOTS Goddamn Dangerous............. .....rarely OP. Unless skill stacking, that is ridiculously over powered. " Those men died loving duty more than they feared death..... they died well." -Templar Ouryon after Iesa III
Pvt Numnutz Watchdoge Explosives 1528	Posted - 2014.06.22 21:01:00 - [40] - Quote True Adamance wrote: DROPSHIP PILOTS Goddamn Dangerous............. .....rarely OP. Unless skill stacking, that is ridiculously over powered. I'm happy to see a lot of players actually don't think they are op. I do agree that assault dropship and racial assault dropship skill stacking is op. 100% fire rate But the skill stacking of the turret skills I feel is fair. It creates the gunner role and gives them some bonuses like, turret rotation speed, ammo, and reload. None of which when stacked make it horribly overpowered but do give the gunner an edge and a reward for skilling into the gunnery tree. Those should stay, the assault dropship skills shouldn't stack.

skippy678 the.R3D.kings 2481	Posted - 2014.07.04 22:34:00 - [41] - Quote Dropship topics dont seem to last too long around here for some reason..... My Youtube Lvl. 2 Forum Warrior Follow:@skippy6gaming #BetaVet
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 3013	Posted - 2014.07.04 23:44:00 - [42] - Quote As a pilot, a single swarm user will more often than not completly suppress an entire 300m Area. If I don't spot him BEFORE he begins firing at me I have to bug out before he fires the third shot, otherwise I'm easy pickings for a passing forge/rail round. If I can't find him, I can't stay in that area, I'm completly neutralised, yet at the same time I don't feel bad because I get to keep my expensive ****. As a AVer I can get low flying, or slow dropships with ease, and provided I don't just run in a straight line, a lot of pilots struggle to hit me. But the fast ones can sometimes zoom past me and kill 1 guy before I force him to leave or crash. If I can get them as they start to pitch up and slow down, they have to be real good to escape. In conclusion from my perspective of both roles, the ADS is almost perfectly balanced, any further changes to the AV-Vehicle balance need to be carefully considered so as not to make them UP. I can be soloed, by an AVer with skill, or sometimes just persistence. But at the same time if I out skill my opponent then I can survive and in occasional circumstances fight back. Helpful tips Swarmers 1) Remain mobile A single mag means I have to retreat, but if I know where you are I can kill you long before you even have time to react. Moving around means I have to spend time inside you lock zone searching for you, time that can ill afford. 2) Bring Hives Swarms have low amounts of reserve ammunition, if you are using swarms SPECIFICALLY to counter a dropship chances are you won't get them on the first volley. It is preferable to bring lots of hives hives with lower reserves than fewer hives with a larger nanite pool, putting down these hives acts like a homing beacon. 3)Catch us when we are busy the best time to catch us is when we are readjisting for the next volley of shots, we will more often than not, be pitched upwards in attempt to slow down, this is the best time to hit us, we have little time to react and are often in compromising position. Forgers 1) Find a good spot, Somewhere like a hill the more open terrain surrounding you position (preferably with a small amount of cover just for you) the better. You want to be able to see me coming from a god damn long way off. 2) Get a supply drop, An ADS pilot will more often than not attempt to turn a forge engagement into a marathon of combat. If he can out last your supply he can then just kill you at his leisure, since heavies can't carry hives. Always make sure you reload as soon as he retreats, if he can see your reloading your as good as dead. My suit's a bit rusty, but that could just as easily be me! Monkey Mac - Swinging from the Rooftops Forum Warrior Lvl2
TEBOW BAGGINS Defenders of the Helghast Dream Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 1099	Posted - 2014.07.05 00:08:00 - [43] - Quote between the buffed SL and PLC infantry has no room to complain and no nerf is warranted. sorry we 2 shot your scout suits everyone else seems to have a major problem with. also you nerfed our hardeners and reps and so now you want to nerf our damage? that same damage you want nerfed is applied to destroying the tanks you all cry about every day. AKA Zirzo Valcyn AFKing since 2012
Pvt Numnutz Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 1616	Posted - 2014.07.05 00:57:00 - [44] - Quote TEBOW BAGGINS wrote: between the buffed SL and PLC infantry has no room to complain and no nerf is warranted. sorry we 2 shot your scout suits everyone else seems to have a major problem with. also you nerfed our hardeners and reps and so now you want to nerf our damage? that same damage you want nerfed is applied to destroying the tanks you all cry about every day. I'm a dropship pilot. As I said in the op, this would only slightly increase the time a dropship is required to engage. The damage potential per clip would be the same as it is now. Depending on how many missiles we increase it by we could also increase RoF slightly to make sure dropships don't have to loiter to kill anything. But I'm just talking about an increase of like 4 missiles, slightly reducing damage across all missiles to keep the same damage potential per clip. So instead of 2 shotting its 3 shotting.
Fire of Prometheus Alpha Response Command 5211	Posted - 2014.07.05 02:54:00 - [45] - Quote That's not actually a bad idea, it could work, but I'd rather test it before making it permanent PSN: jcptmo8055 Long live commandos CCP, at least fix my ck.0 commandos colour scheme...he looks like the Michelin man
jaksol exendent Red and Silver Hand Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2014.07.05 05:42:00 - [46] - Quote LUGMOS wrote: Blaster should be better Anti infantry, so yes. My understanding is rails are AV, blasters are AI, and missles are supposed to be ok at both, but not the best. I think small rails should have more direct damage than missles, and blasters could have a tighter spread to make them more effective vs infantry. blaster can be used as a anti tank weapon also just need to be fast against a rail tank and sneaky against missiles
DUST Fiend Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 14535	Posted - 2014.07.05 07:24:00 - [47] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Are high-end birds still ~~immune~~ obscenely resistant to Proto Swarms? I haven't run into any yet since the fix yesterday. An ADS isn't OP if we can shoot it down with Swarms. We fixed that. The Proficiency skill should now also be working for Forge Guns and Swarm Launchers against vehicles, so that should also give swarms a boost. All you did was make flying an Incubus a chore since any idiot who can look up at the sky for three seconds can deal tremendous damage without a single further thought. Dust will be uninstalled very soon, you all can have this roller coaster. I'll be in Star Citizen if anyone needs me.
aaaasdff ertgfdd Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic 25	Posted - 2014.07.05 08:30:00 - [48] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Are high-end birds still ~~immune~~ obscenely resistant to Proto Swarms? I haven't run into any yet since the fix yesterday. An ADS isn't OP if we can shoot it down with Swarms. He'll no! 4 shots can do the trick for many builds. Python that is. The question of if the dropship is op when equipped with missiles shouldn't be dependent on what av can do to the dropship. That is its defensive capabilities, we are talking about the offensive capabilities. Should a scout die from one missle shot? Should the rate of fire be multiplied when more than one gunner is in the dropship? These are the 2 problems I see with the ads vs infantry currently. Rate of fire, damage per missle, and possibly the blast radius. Now I am not saying that one or any of these things need to be changed, but I do think that is where the discussion needs to lie. Not in AV effectiveness. That doesnt matter when you are chasing the merc with a rifle.
aaaasdff ertgfdd Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic 25	Posted - 2014.07.05 08:35:00 - [49] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: CCP Logibro wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Are high-end birds still ~~immune~~ obscenely resistant to Proto Swarms? I haven't run into any yet since the fix yesterday. An ADS isn't OP if we can shoot it down with Swarms. We fixed that. The Proficiency skill should now also be working for Forge Guns and Swarm Launchers against vehicles, so that should also give swarms a boost. All you did was make flying an Incubus a chore since any idiot who can look up at the sky for three seconds can deal tremendous damage without a single further thought. Dust will be uninstalled very soon, you all can have this roller coaster. I'll be in Star Citizen if anyone needs me. Oh, and the OPs proposed change only serves to further push Incubus into the ground while Pythons get to fly around having the best of everything because basically nothing does extra damage to them, they have a lower physical profile, their base speed is as fast as an unplated incubus with an AB, they're more agile, their weapon works against ALL things, quite effectively, and excels at taking out forge gunners and infantry in general thanks to their RoF. This game. Is. A . Joke. Your perspective is warped because you are only looking at it from the pilot gunner stand point. Blaster turrets work quite nicely for the side gunners. Also Pythons are subject to severe collision damage. Also I have found a little plate weight stabilizes the gunship, and once you get the armor composition maxed out its barely noticeable.
Pvt Numnutz Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 1621	Posted - 2014.07.05 09:19:00 - [50] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: All you did was make flying an Incubus a chore since any idiot who can look up at the sky for three seconds can deal tremendous damage without a single further thought. Dust will be uninstalled very soon, you all can have this roller coaster. I'll be in Star Citizen if anyone needs me. Oh, and the OPs proposed change only serves to further push Incubus into the ground while Pythons get to fly around having the best of everything because basically nothing does extra damage to them, they have a lower physical profile, their base speed is as fast as an unplated incubus with an AB, they're more agile, their weapon works against ALL things, quite effectively, and excels at taking out forge gunners and infantry in general thanks to their RoF. This game. Is. A . Joke. You can play star citizen now? Snap. Enjoy your alien bonsai tree. I don't like the incubus, my proposal was to discuss balancing the AI capability of the python (the anti infantry ads) not changing the incubus. This change would really make the pythons bonus to ROF significant. Knowing you for being an incubus pilot, and quite a good one at that, I'm surprised you think the incubus and its role is sub par to the python. First of all, the incubus trades speed and maneuverability for a much better tank than that of a python, coupled with more of a resistance to collision damage. Basically its much hardier and can withstand much more punishment. So of course the python is going to be faster and more agile, its a hit and run ship. I simply will not accept an incubus pilot complaining that the python is faster or more agile, it needs those to be relevant. As you said the missile turret excels at anti infantry work. Though compared to the rail gun it is not as effective against vehicles. Effective sure, but not nearly as effective as an incubus with a rail. To get the same level of anti vehicle effectiveness I have to have two gunners to match a lone incubus pilot. So while the python excels in anti infantry engagements, the incubus excels in anti vehicle engagements. My proposed change to missile turrets shouldn't concern an incubus pilot, as they don't have a bonus to them and its not really their role. For a python pilot two things would become immediately clear, I will have to seriously use my speed and maneuverability to hit and run with the longer engagement time, and that ROF bonus is really important now to keep the engagement time low. Emphasizing the two strengths of the python. If you were wondering, the reason I don't like incubi (aside from the fact that its frog tech) is because it behaves more like a fighter than a dropship. Its sheer vehicle killing ability makes it easy to use as a solo pilot. What's the best counter to a python? An incubus. What if it has two gunners? An incubus. Why? Because the rail is just better for dogfighting while missiles are extremely unreliable. The only field where an incubus is lacking is anti infantry, but in terms of anti vehicle it is so good a solo pilot can do it, and do it as well as a dropship with gunners. I don't like that, dropships are team vehicles. I don't like solo pilots, though I do understand a lot of them were fighter pilots who got tired of waiting and hopped in a dropship to fly. They don't want to be dropship pilots though, they want to be fighter pilots, and the incubus enables that. One of the effects I would hope to come out of my proposed change is python pilots actually using gunners by making it less viable for a solo pilot to do what it should take a crew. I expect a few pilots to disagree with me, but probably because they are fighter pilots in dropships, not "true" dropship pilots. Anyway the only joke I see here is a bitter vet incubus pilot complaining about pythons being better when the incubus is designed to take down pythons. again enjoy your alien bonsai tree.

DontChimpOut Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 2	Posted - 2014.07.05 13:41:00 - [51] - Quote Pvt Numnutz wrote: I have had an idea on a compromise for a while now. I'm sure that most mercs feel that it is the missile turret that makes the ads op, at least for infantry players. Av are saying the whole ship is op but if the missile turrets power per shot were decreased would you all still feel the assault dropship is op? The compromise being, Reduce small missile turret damage per missile Increase small missile turret clip size This keeps the same damage potential per clip, but requires gunner accuracy to deliver. This will also require dropships to remain in the engagement area for longer to apply the full damage, giving av more chance to interfere in the dropships run and give them more of a chance vs dropships. Haven't thought up exact numbers yet but thought I'd bring this up for discussion. I am going to be talking to my gunners about this to get their input as to what they would feel fair. Personally I think it shouldn't be too low on the damage, enough to still be able to get in and out relatively quickly but long enough to make a difference. I don't want to have to go into hover mode to kill a single merc, nor do I think it should take over 4 missiles to kill an assault suit. Thought maybe it should take more than two. Discuss. Yeah, another vehicle compromise while infantry gives up nothing. Dead 514
DUST Fiend Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 14535	Posted - 2014.07.05 15:12:00 - [52] - Quote The only thing the Incubus excels at over the Python is destroying shield vehicles, and being more resistant to crashing (aka, don't be a bad pilot and this doesn't matter) Amusingly, Python pilots have to be worse to crash because their ship is more responsive and easier to handle in flight....who knew... Missiles do EXCELLENT work even against shield vehicles, and are FAR more effective at fighting armor, considering a small railgun will barely crack most armor vehicles, at all. Your change DOES directly impact Incubus because we are FORCED to fit missiles if we want to do anything other than fly around in circles, harass armor vehicles, or chase away shield vehicles. In fact, it effects us even MORE than python BECAUSE we lack the bonus, so we feel your nerf even harder than you do. Oh, and yes, you can play the dogfighting module in Star Citizen now, and more modules will be opening up soon. Plus, other games. I'm backing the crap out of SC, can't wait for my Constellation in about a month.
The dark cloud The Rainbow Effect 3399	Posted - 2014.07.05 15:25:00 - [53] - Quote lol at people claiming small rails are not good vs vehicles. you have no idea how fast stuff dies with 2 peoples specced into gallente dropships. The thing fires insanely fast and is the ultimate counter vs vehicles of any kind. Be it LAV's dropships or tanks. A incubus achieved its role as the pefect AV vehicle when used properly and every python pilot runs away screaming in agony cause they know you dont engage a incubus in a dogfight.
DUST Fiend Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 14535	Posted - 2014.07.05 15:27:00 - [54] - Quote The dark cloud wrote: lol at people claiming small rails are not good vs vehicles. you have no idea how fast stuff dies with 2 peoples specced into gallente dropships. The thing fires insanely fast and is the ultimate counter vs vehicles of any kind. Be it LAV's dropships or tanks. A incubus achieved its role as the pefect AV vehicle when used properly and every python pilot runs away screaming in agony cause they know you dont engage a incubus in a dogfight. Utilizing a bug, yes. But the exact same can be said of a Python utilizing the bug. And yet again, this is vs armor that I'm talking about, which the bugged missile will perform just about as effectively as the bugged railgun, albeit a little harder to track thanks to projectile travel time.
Derpty Derp It's All Gone Derp 202	Posted - 2014.07.05 15:30:00 - [55] - Quote I don't see ads as op... For starters a swarmer can currently down one without reloading. Missiles are probably op, since they work better all round even without the (slightly over the top ads bonus firing speed.) Currently using missiles on an incubus is better for taking out ground vehicles than rails with the ads bonus, but that's because it's the only turret that actually fires where you're aiming, while the rails and (lol blasters) just seem to fire at random, by which I mean you can be not aiming near anything and get a damn headshot, while pointing it right at a stationary target can yield no hit. But before we do any nerfing, lets see about making sure swarms and people can actually be seen from a dropship without hovering so damn close you might as well land on them anyway.
The dark cloud The Rainbow Effect 3399	Posted - 2014.07.05 15:35:00 - [56] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: The dark cloud wrote: lol at people claiming small rails are not good vs vehicles. you have no idea how fast stuff dies with 2 peoples specced into gallente dropships. The thing fires insanely fast and is the ultimate counter vs vehicles of any kind. Be it LAV's dropships or tanks. A incubus achieved its role as the pefect AV vehicle when used properly and every python pilot runs away screaming in agony cause they know you dont engage a incubus in a dogfight. Utilizing a bug, yes. But the exact same can be said of a Python utilizing the bug. And yet again, this is vs armor that I'm talking about, which the bugged missile will perform just about as effectively as the bugged railgun, albeit a little harder to track thanks to projectile travel time. I dont think that this is a bug. Back in the closed beta we asked the devs if skills stack on vehicles and they confirmed it and we assumed that it is a feature instead of a bug. Another point for it is that it hasnt beeing taken away so far. And to be honest most scrub pilots fly solo instead with a gunner. Which saddens me as a oldschool pilot.
DUST Fiend Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 14535	Posted - 2014.07.05 15:37:00 - [57] - Quote The dark cloud wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: The dark cloud wrote: lol at people claiming small rails are not good vs vehicles. you have no idea how fast stuff dies with 2 peoples specced into gallente dropships. The thing fires insanely fast and is the ultimate counter vs vehicles of any kind. Be it LAV's dropships or tanks. A incubus achieved its role as the pefect AV vehicle when used properly and every python pilot runs away screaming in agony cause they know you dont engage a incubus in a dogfight. Utilizing a bug, yes. But the exact same can be said of a Python utilizing the bug. And yet again, this is vs armor that I'm talking about, which the bugged missile will perform just about as effectively as the bugged railgun, albeit a little harder to track thanks to projectile travel time. I dont think that this is a bug. Back in the closed beta we asked the devs if skills stack on vehicles and they confirmed it and we assumed that it is a feature instead of a bug. Another point for it is that it hasnt beeing taken away so far. And to be honest most scrub pilots fly solo instead with a gunner. Which saddens me as a oldschool pilot. If you think 125% RoF bonus on small turrets is balanced, YOU are the problem. If one person can't push a turret farther than 50%, adding in someone who knows the EXACT same knowledge as you doesn't suddenly further increase the turrets effectiveness. And yes, it's higher than 100% RoF because math. Even if it wasn't, 100% RoF is obnoxious and only scrubs would ever possibly defend it. But by all means, defend your irrelevant game
Temias Mercurial Knights Of Ender RISE of LEGION 108	Posted - 2014.07.05 16:52:00 - [58] - Quote aaaasdff ertgfdd wrote: Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Are high-end birds still ~~immune~~ obscenely resistant to Proto Swarms? I haven't run into any yet since the fix yesterday. An ADS isn't OP if we can shoot it down with Swarms. He'll no! 4 shots can do the trick for many builds. Python that is. The question of if the dropship is op when equipped with missiles shouldn't be dependent on what av can do to the dropship. That is its defensive capabilities, we are talking about the offensive capabilities. Should a scout die from one missle shot? Should the rate of fire be multiplied when more than one gunner is in the dropship? These are the 2 problems I see with the ads vs infantry currently. Rate of fire, damage per missle, and possibly the blast radius. Now I am not saying that one or any of these things need to be changed, but I do think that is where the discussion needs to lie. Not in AV effectiveness. That doesnt matter when you are chasing the merc with a rifle. Scouts can die in one shot of just about everything so... I find it more of an issue of allowing yourself to be seen by a dropship. I'm and Incubus pilot and proto gallente scout.
Derpty Derp It's All Gone Derp 203	Posted - 2014.07.05 17:03:00 - [59] - Quote Lot of people saying the bus flys like... well a bus... Am I the only one that finds its handling nicer than the python? Or is it just that everyone is trying to tank out their bus?
Mobius Wyvern Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 5303	Posted - 2014.07.05 17:07:00 - [60] - Quote Pvt Numnutz wrote: I have had an idea on a compromise for a while now. I'm sure that most mercs feel that it is the missile turret that makes the ads op, at least for infantry players. Av are saying the whole ship is op but if the missile turrets power per shot were decreased would you all still feel the assault dropship is op? The compromise being, Reduce small missile turret damage per missile Increase small missile turret clip size This keeps the same damage potential per clip, but requires gunner accuracy to deliver. This will also require dropships to remain in the engagement area for longer to apply the full damage, giving av more chance to interfere in the dropships run and give them more of a chance vs dropships. Haven't thought up exact numbers yet but thought I'd bring this up for discussion. I am going to be talking to my gunners about this to get their input as to what they would feel fair. Personally I think it shouldn't be too low on the damage, enough to still be able to get in and out relatively quickly but long enough to make a difference. I don't want to have to go into hover mode to kill a single merc, nor do I think it should take over 4 missiles to kill an assault suit. Thought maybe it should take more than two. Discuss. As a dedicated Python pilot, I would love this change. Amidst the blue skies A link from past to future The sheltering wings of the protector

Pvt Numnutz Prophets of the Velocirapture 1625	Posted - 2014.07.05 18:01:00 - [61] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: The only thing the Incubus excels at over the Python is destroying shield vehicles, and being more resistant to crashing (aka, don't be a bad pilot and this doesn't matter) Amusingly, Python pilots have to be worse to crash because their ship is more responsive and easier to handle in flight....who knew... Missiles do EXCELLENT work even against shield vehicles, and are FAR more effective at fighting armor, considering a small railgun will barely crack most armor vehicles, at all. Your change DOES directly impact Incubus because we are FORCED to fit missiles if we want to do anything other than fly around in circles, harass armor vehicles, or chase away shield vehicles. In fact, it effects us even MORE than python BECAUSE we lack the bonus, so we feel your nerf even harder than you do. Oh, and yes, you can play the dogfighting module in Star Citizen now, and more modules will be opening up soon. Plus, other games. I'm backing the crap out of SC, can't wait for my Constellation in about a month. I hope you realize that a slight tap to anything can cause the python to explode, you wouldn't dismiss that perk if you knew the horror of the street lamp. Also get knocked around easier so there is that. Rails are better av, hands down no question. So I'm a little confused here, on the one hand you say missiles are too good, but then you say they shouldn't be changed slightly to make them require say one more missile than it currently does to kill infantry. Would it really be so bad to have to fire one more missile? You have the tank to stay longer. I'm not saying increase clip size by 8 and reduce damage per missile by 1/2. I'd say 4 missile increase with appropriate damage reduction. Nothing horribly drastic. My point stands, if your concerned about your incubis anti infantry capabilities then you should be making suggestions to change the blaster, you know a turret you have a bonus to. The incubus isn't designed to use missiles. in fact this would even further my goal of making dropships team vehicles by making incubi pilots fit gunners as well to be effective with missiles. Would you find it acceptable for me to complain about a rail python? I'm sure your not a fan of having to fit gunners, but that massive hole in our ships is there for a reason. Wow, honestly if I was waiting for SC I would have stopped backing it a while ago until I got something playable. From what I heard the controls for the dogfighting module was just awful. Really want that alien bonsai don't you?
Ld Collins Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 157	Posted - 2014.07.05 19:07:00 - [62] - Quote A simple fix would be to remove the fire rate increase ans swap it for reload speed.
DUST Fiend Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 14539	Posted - 2014.07.05 20:28:00 - [63] - Quote "Extra tank" is an illusion when almost every form of AV does bonus damage to you. And again, crashing into things = bad pilot or unlucky, and shouldn't be a major concern in balance. I'm just excited for games that are worth playing :D Also, the controls aren't "bad" they're "realistic" and people have trouble wrapping their heads around that fact. Damage to any part of your ship can drastically effect how your ship flies thanks to how the thrusters work and how they interact with the rest of the ship. People are used to a more gamey feeling, instead of an actual space simulator. And lastly, a space bonsai would be more entertaining than this train wreck
Temias Mercurial Knights Of Ender RISE of LEGION 108	Posted - 2014.07.05 20:50:00 - [64] - Quote Ld Collins wrote: A simple fix would be to remove the fire rate increase ans swap it for reload speed. Instant reload speed... are you sure you would want that?
The dark cloud The Rainbow Effect 3401	Posted - 2014.07.05 23:07:00 - [65] - Quote no there is allready a skill that shortens the reload time on turrets.


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