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Lorhak Gannarsein Legio DXIV 3572	Posted - 2014.06.16 08:11:00 - [1] - Quote For serious, I will cry if people nerf my suit. Please don't nerf my EHP or my movement speeds! It's irritating enough to kill an Ion Maddy as it is. And an animation for exiting LAVs would make it incredibly hard. Please, when we nerf the HMG Heavy, make it rotation speed, explosive resist or HMG specific. CCP Rattati Best Dev AmLogi 5 GÇó AmAss 5 GÇó AmSent 4 GÇó CalScout 4 (2 days left...)
Long Evity 1593	Posted - 2014.06.16 08:16:00 - [2] - Quote Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: For serious, I will cry if people nerf my suit. Please don't nerf my EHP or my movement speeds! It's irritating enough to kill an Ion Maddy as it is. And an animation for exiting LAVs would make it incredibly hard. Please, when we nerf the HMG Heavy, make it rotation speed, explosive resist or HMG specific. or, how about leave heavies alone and go fix assault suits? The reason heavies seem OP is because assault suits can't preform there DPS roles to bring down the heavies - everyone is using scouts. Give Amarr ScR bonus, Min CR bonus, Gal AR bonus, and Caldari Rail bonus. Done n done. I am not who you think I am, only but just a dream.
Lorhak Gannarsein Legio DXIV 3572	Posted - 2014.06.16 08:50:00 - [3] - Quote Long Evity wrote: Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: For serious, I will cry if people nerf my suit. Please don't nerf my EHP or my movement speeds! It's irritating enough to kill an Ion Maddy as it is. And an animation for exiting LAVs would make it incredibly hard. Please, when we nerf the HMG Heavy, make it rotation speed, explosive resist or HMG specific. or, how about leave heavies alone and go fix assault suits? The reason heavies seem OP is because assault suits can't preform there DPS roles to bring down the heavies - everyone is using scouts. Give Amarr ScR bonus, Min CR bonus, Gal AR bonus, and Caldari Rail bonus. Done n done. I'm an Amarr Assault. Doesn't actually happen. Scouts means I can't survive to fight the heavies, and even the ScR DPS isn't enough to dislodge multiple entrenched heavy-logis, especially since the ratio is 2 heavies to every logi. I don't know if you've tried to push the point in a domination in the Gallente Research Facility, but it actually doesn't work that way. There is literally no way to counter multiple entrenched heavies aside from multiple breaching heavies. I accept that heavies are intended to be the ultimate in 1v1s, but there has to be a way to get them out. Grenades don't really work anymore, remotes are scrubby and I hate them, and at any range where heavy/logi is effective (i.e. HMG range) they're utterly dominant. And I'd argue that any heavy caught out in the open is guilty of 'gross incompetence' as your corpmate likes to put it. It's looking increasingly like heavies are going to get nerfed. The community has moved on from Scouts, which are clearly getting actively looked at, to heavies, which do not. It wouldn't take much to fix. ADDENDUM: are you saying that Assaults should be the counter to Sentinels? In the problem areas, an Assault can't deliver enough DPS to break reps+buffer before dying to overwhelming firepower. Even an HMG requires near enough to two seconds of DPS to make the kill. Buffing an Assault so it could match heavies in these circumstances would be over the top in the other way. Better to fiddle with the HMG a bit. CCP Rattati Best Dev AmLogi 5 GÇó AmAss 5 GÇó AmSent 4 GÇó CalScout 4 (2 days left...)
Velociraptor antirrhopus Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 199	Posted - 2014.06.16 08:53:00 - [4] - Quote Agree. It really pisses me off everyone's reaction is always "nerf it" instead of buffing the weaker classes. My thoughts on Hotfix Alpha: First I noticed a scout running from my AR. Then a heavy. Then a COMBAT RIFLE USER. CCP +1
Long Evity 1596	Posted - 2014.06.16 08:55:00 - [5] - Quote No class should have all that high of a DPS bonus to begin with - TTK is what makes this game interesting. Honestly, to me, the only real solution to balance this game is increase the base health of every suit or lower DPS of all guns. The problem with HMG isn't so much how dominating it is - but how little it gives you time to react or recover from facing one. If an HMG didn't leave you crippled the second it took to look at you - people wouldn't feel it's so OP, even if it takes them a bit longer to bring you down. With there speed and increased TTK - they could maneuver in a fight with a heavy long enough to ditch out before death. I am not who you think I am, only but just a dream.
Pvt Numnutz Watchdoge Explosives 1495	Posted - 2014.06.16 10:51:00 - [6] - Quote The only thing I'd see changed is the hmg. Aside from that heavies are fine.
shaman oga Nexus Balusa Horizon 2289	Posted - 2014.06.16 11:00:00 - [7] - Quote No, i agree with a nerf on speed OR eHP, except the min heavy which has a balanced amount of HP but too much speed. PSN: ogamega I'm not a chef, i'm just a man who likes to cook.
Gelan Corbaine Gladiators Vanguard 463	Posted - 2014.06.16 14:54:00 - [8] - Quote shaman oga wrote: No, i agree with a nerf on speed OR eHP, except the min heavy which has a balanced amount of HP but too much speed. .............. what ?!!!!!!!!! No job is worth doing if you don't get paid in the end .
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 1917	Posted - 2014.06.16 15:17:00 - [9] - Quote +1 for Rotation Speed (would solve most problems) -1 for Movement Speed (would make Heavies too slow) Unsure about HMG. Nerfing it would encourage Fine Rifle Heavies. More Fine Rifle Heavies would be bad news. Shoot scout with yes... - Ripley Riley
Cody Sietz Bullet Cluster Lokun Listamenn 3351	Posted - 2014.06.16 15:22:00 - [10] - Quote Long Evity wrote: Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: For serious, I will cry if people nerf my suit. Please don't nerf my EHP or my movement speeds! It's irritating enough to kill an Ion Maddy as it is. And an animation for exiting LAVs would make it incredibly hard. Please, when we nerf the HMG Heavy, make it rotation speed, explosive resist or HMG specific. or, how about leave heavies alone and go fix assault suits? The reason heavies seem OP is because assault suits can't preform there DPS roles to bring down the heavies - everyone is using scouts. Give Amarr ScR bonus, Min CR bonus, Gal AR bonus, and Caldari Rail bonus. Done n done. Should have did that before nerfing scouts. "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire

Soldiersaint Condotta Rouvenor Gallente Federation 845	Posted - 2014.06.16 15:54:00 - [11] - Quote Healer logi here. I support this!
Xocoyol Zaraoul Superior Genetics 2000	Posted - 2014.06.16 17:15:00 - [12] - Quote Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: And an animation for exiting LAVs would make it incredibly hard. Eh... I do desperately hope CCP puts in an mounting/dismounting animation for vehicles, that lack of animation is complete and utter BS for quite a lot of situations, and this is speaking as someone with maxed heavy skills who hunts infantry and vehicles alike... The abuse on that is just too high, even from other suits. "You see those red dots over there? Go and shoot them until you see a +50 on the screen" - Arkena Wyrnspire
Lorhak Gannarsein Legio DXIV 3575	Posted - 2014.06.16 17:17:00 - [13] - Quote Xocoyol Zaraoul wrote: Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: And an animation for exiting LAVs would make it incredibly hard. Eh... I do desperately hope CCP puts in an mounting/dismounting animation for vehicles, that lack of animation is complete and utter BS for quite a lot of situations, and this is speaking as someone with maxed heavy skills who hunts infantry and vehicles alike... The abuse on that is just too high, even from other suits. I agree insofar as everything except forging is concerned. If that's taken away (which I do think it should be) I'd need an FG buff. Or rather, an HAV nerf. (As much as both kill me to suggest.) CCP Rattati Best Dev AmLogi 5 GÇó AmAss 5 GÇó AmSent 4 GÇó CalScout 4 (2 days left...)
Lorhak Gannarsein Legio DXIV 3576	Posted - 2014.06.16 17:22:00 - [14] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: +1 for Rotation Speed (would solve most problems) -1 for Movement Speed (would make Heavies too slow) Unsure about HMG. It should be unmatched when it comes to killing things up close. Nerfing it may encourage more Heavies to run Fine Rifles. More Fine Rifle Heavies would be bad news. Wait I'm absolutely not saying nerf movement speed! I can barely strafe against rails as it is. I want rotation speed nerfs, and maybe an HMG tweak. Overheat probably, and maybe decrease cooldown rate too? Damage needs to be pretty much stable unless heavies are locked to heavy weapons, which I'm not a fan of owing to having two weapons and all. I don't really want LAV exit animations, although an entry animation would be good. (Make it hard to get away). Maybe HMGs could have a longer animation or something; I'm just spitballing here. But in the end I don't want too many changes to the suit. FGing is in a pretty good place at the moment, and nerfing the suit would make it quite a bit harder again. CCP Rattati Best Dev AmLogi 5 GÇó AmAss 5 GÇó AmSent 4 GÇó CalScout 5
Bojo The Mighty Spaceman Drug Cartel-Uno 3832	Posted - 2014.06.16 17:24:00 - [15] - Quote Let's also keep in mind that by far the most effective counter to heavies is going to be nerfed....I speak of course of RE's. I'm not resting in peace but rather wandering as a zombie in vengeance of no good reason
Lorhak Gannarsein Legio DXIV 3576	Posted - 2014.06.16 17:25:00 - [16] - Quote Bojo The Mighty wrote: Let's also keep in mind that by far the most effective counter to heavies is going to be nerfed....I speak of course of RE's. Nerfing explosive resists would make that less of a big deal, IMO. CCP Rattati Best Dev AmLogi 5 GÇó AmAss 5 GÇó AmSent 4 GÇó CalScout 5
Vitharr Foebane Terminal Courtesy 1411	Posted - 2014.06.16 17:34:00 - [17] - Quote Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: Bojo The Mighty wrote: Let's also keep in mind that by far the most effective counter to heavies is going to be nerfed....I speak of course of RE's. Nerfing explosive resists would make that less of a big deal, IMO. sentinels do not have explosive resistance... it is splash damage resistance Amarr: Sentinel V Scout V Assault IV Commando IV Logistics IV I place my faith in my God, my Empress, and my Laz0r
Rion0 Dark Side Alliance 40	Posted - 2014.06.16 17:38:00 - [18] - Quote How do heavies fat f**king feet even discern the difference between the gas and brake pedals? They shouldn't be allowed to drive the dam things. Passengers only.
Bojo The Mighty Spaceman Drug Cartel-Uno 3832	Posted - 2014.06.16 17:50:00 - [19] - Quote Vitharr Foebane wrote: Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: Bojo The Mighty wrote: Let's also keep in mind that by far the most effective counter to heavies is going to be nerfed....I speak of course of RE's. Nerfing explosive resists would make that less of a big deal, IMO. sentinels do not have explosive resistance... it is splash damage resistance CCP confirmed that explosives fell under that category I'm not resting in peace but rather wandering as a zombie in vengeance of no good reason
Vicious Minotaur Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 893	Posted - 2014.06.16 17:59:00 - [20] - Quote I still have no idea why people want to nerf ALL heavies... Seriously, is my underperforming Minmatar Sentinel giving you problems? Shotgun scouts are already my counter, easily being able to rip off through my paltry health. A rotational speed nerf would take away my ability to even ATTEMPT to defend myself against them. People need to stop generalizing all heavies, and instead look at EACH suit individually (don't people know that there are more than one?). My Minmatar suit is the least used Sentinel in the game. It is that way for a reason. When was the last time you saw logis with Minmatar/Caldari Sentinels wreaking havoc in the research facility? When was the last time you saw a nigh invulnerable Minmatar sentinel defending an objective? Even I, as an "OP" heavy, have a hard time dealing with Gallente/Amarr Sentinels EVEN when I get the drop on them! There are problems all right. This community and its inability to look past its own nose... I am a minotaur.

ANON Cerberus ACME SPECIAL FORCES RISE of LEGION 836	Posted - 2014.06.16 18:12:00 - [21] - Quote I sure as hell hope they dont nerf the Caldari Sentinel. It needs a slight buff, and hopefully the shield improvements in hotfix Bravo will go some way towards that. I really really hope they dont nerf Caldari Sentinel CPU. Its tight as it is getting a full shield fit with a forge and decent sidearm. Its hardly even that powerful when fully proto`d. It sure as hell doesn't compete too well with a HMG VS Armour Sentinel HMGers either!
Llast 326 An Arkhos 3667	Posted - 2014.06.16 18:18:00 - [22] - Quote Vicious Minotaur wrote: I still have no idea why people want to nerf ALL heavies... Seriously, is my underperforming Minmatar Sentinel giving you problems? Shotgun scouts are already my counter, easily being able to rip off through my paltry health. A rotational speed nerf would take away my ability to even ATTEMPT to defend myself against them. People need to stop generalizing all heavies, and instead look at EACH suit individually (don't people know that there are more than one?). My Minmatar suit is the least used Sentinel in the game. It is that way for a reason. When was the last time you saw logis with Minmatar/Caldari Sentinels wreaking havoc in the research facility? When was the last time you saw a nigh invulnerable Minmatar sentinel defending an objective? Even I, as an "OP" heavy, have a hard time dealing with Gallente/Amarr Sentinels EVEN when I get the drop on them! There are problems all right. This community and its inability to look past its own nose... You have a valid point about differentiating in what suits are sources issues. When the nerfing of the cloak/scout discussions were happening a lot of the focus was on one suit, with a bit on the other suit that caused problems. A lot of the proposed fixes were damaging to the Min and sometimes Amarr suits, despite those not being viewed as the issue. In the end the results hurt the Min more than the Gal scout, and boosted the Cal scout (in my opinion at least). I run all four scouts to some degree, so I had a perspective from multi suit experience. Any input on identifying the problem suits? If rotation speed is based on suit speed it would affect the Min suit the least, and the Amarr the most. Is Amarr the primary issue? What about Cal or Gal? KRRROOOOOOM
Atiim NoGameNoLife 9512	Posted - 2014.06.16 18:22:00 - [23] - Quote As an avid AV Player, this concerns me dearly. Though as far as I know, rotation speed is entirely dependent on the weapon meaning that it is possible to adjust rotation speed of HMGs without affecting other heavies. Though I'm not quite sure if rotation speed is a problem. Amarrians would prefer you be faithful... I'd rather you be logical. Proud defender of Ishukone Corporation. -HAND
Vitharr Foebane Terminal Courtesy 1412	Posted - 2014.06.16 18:25:00 - [24] - Quote Atiim wrote: As an avid AV Player, this concerns me dearly. Though as far as I know, rotation speed is entirely dependent on the weapon meaning that it is possible to adjust rotation speed of HMGs without affecting other heavies. Though I'm not quite sure if rotation speed is a problem. you manage to get any playtime with a heavy suit yet? Amarr: Sentinel V Scout V Assault IV Commando IV Logistics IV I place my faith in my God, my Empress, and my Laz0r
Long Evity 1611	Posted - 2014.06.16 18:27:00 - [25] - Quote Atiim wrote: As an avid AV Player, this concerns me dearly. Though as far as I know, rotation speed is entirely dependent on the weapon meaning that it is possible to adjust rotation speed of HMGs without affecting other heavies. Though I'm not quite sure if rotation speed is a problem. Slow rotation speed then CCP could safely reduce scouts HP, as they could just dodge. My only problem is that it makes Heavies even more point defense, as our adaptability will drop even more if we can't turn fast enough to fight off flankers. I am not who you think I am, only but just a dream.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 1927	Posted - 2014.06.16 18:32:00 - [26] - Quote Long Evity wrote: Atiim wrote: As an avid AV Player, this concerns me dearly. Though as far as I know, rotation speed is entirely dependent on the weapon meaning that it is possible to adjust rotation speed of HMGs without affecting other heavies. Though I'm not quite sure if rotation speed is a problem. Slow rotation speed then CCP could safely reduce scouts HP, as they could just dodge. My only problem is that it makes Heavies even more point defense, as our adaptability will drop even more if we can't turn fast enough to fight off flankers. When you say "fight off flankers" do you mean ... The Scout who is standing behind you with a Knife or Shotgun? Or ... the ranged combatants who've circled wide and caught you with your arse out in the open? If not, then give us an example so we can understand what you mean. Shoot scout with yes... - Ripley Riley
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 866	Posted - 2014.06.16 18:38:00 - [27] - Quote The HMG is the problem, not the suits, heavies running other weapons are not dominating anything. Because, that's why.
Atiim NoGameNoLife 9512	Posted - 2014.06.16 18:39:00 - [28] - Quote Vitharr Foebane wrote: you manage to get any playtime with a heavy suit yet? About 2hrs worth. Amarrians would prefer you be faithful... I'd rather you be logical. Proud defender of Ishukone Corporation. -HAND
Long Evity 1611	Posted - 2014.06.16 18:41:00 - [29] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Long Evity wrote: Atiim wrote: As an avid AV Player, this concerns me dearly. Though as far as I know, rotation speed is entirely dependent on the weapon meaning that it is possible to adjust rotation speed of HMGs without affecting other heavies. Though I'm not quite sure if rotation speed is a problem. Slow rotation speed then CCP could safely reduce scouts HP, as they could just dodge. My only problem is that it makes Heavies even more point defense, as our adaptability will drop even more if we can't turn fast enough to fight off flankers. When you say "fight off flankers" do you mean ... The Scout who is standing behind you with a Knife or Shotgun? Or ... the ranged combatants who've circled wide and caught you with your arse out in the open? If not, then give us an example so we can understand what you mean. ... I have to give an example of someone coming from behind and killing you because you can't turn fast enough to react? Really? ... I am not who you think I am, only but just a dream.
Vicious Minotaur Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 893	Posted - 2014.06.16 18:54:00 - [30] - Quote Llast 326 wrote: You have a valid point about differentiating in what suits are sources issues. When the nerfing of the cloak/scout discussions were happening a lot of the focus was on one suit, with a bit on the other suit that caused problems. A lot of the proposed fixes were damaging to the Min and sometimes Amarr suits, despite those not being viewed as the issue. In the end the results hurt the Min more than the Gal scout, and boosted the Cal scout (in my opinion at least). I run all four scouts to some degree, so I had a perspective from multi suit experience. Any input on identifying the problem suits? If rotation speed is based on suit speed it would affect the Min suit the least, and the Amarr the most. Is Amarr the primary issue? What about Cal or Gal? The issues with heavy balance go deeper than the individual suits and their base stats. With that in mind, Caldari & Minmatar Sentinel are not problematic. Amarr & Gallente are. The underlying issues that cause problems that make Amarr/Gallente Sentinel suits appear to be OP are (as I see it, and in no particular order): 1) Resistances To illustrate with a simplified model: Say a 1200 armour tanker has a 3% damage resistance protecting its armour, and a 900 shield tanker has a 3 percent resistance protecting its shield. The armour tanker gets things better, as they have more HP for which the resistances to affect. 2)Holes in weapon selection Complaints vs heavies are often voiced by shotgun scouts. My shield based Sentinels get torn to shreds by shotguns, and from my own experiences taking out heavies with shotguns (limited, lvl 1 Gallente w/ lvl 3 shotgun) shield based heavies are fair game, while armour based are not. This points out the importance of damage profiles. The shotgun is a shield biased weapon, so obviously it has a harder time with armour. If there were an armour baised shotgun variant, (possibly via hotfix) armour sentinels would be less of a problem for scouts. 3)HMG damage I've used it since chromosome. It received a ROF buff AND avoided a damage nerf in 1.8 (that virtually all other weapons were hit with). The net effect is comparable to a double buff, one that was unneeded. It is close to where it needs to be, but a little too powerful. 4)Assaults suck Better assaults would be better able to counter Sentinels. An assault buff would be a heavy Nerf, in effect. Maybe there are more, but I must get some food, so that's all I've got for now. I am a minotaur.



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