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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 3 post(s)
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 1593	Posted - 2014.06.10 14:13:00 - [1] - Quote Several factors presently make the life of Minmatar Scout difficult. One of those factors we can easily tweak ... Kindly consider boosting the Minmatar Scout's PG output. Thank you. o7 Shoot scout with yes... - Ripley Riley
Atiim Heaven's Lost Property 9293	Posted - 2014.06.10 14:27:00 - [2] - Quote Along with a boost to the Matari Scout's powergrid, would it be possible to look into the PG requirements of the Kinetic Catylizers? It PG consumption makes it difficult (and in some instances) impossible to use at the Complex Tier on Matari Frames, which they are intended for. Amarrians would prefer you be faithful... I'd rather you be logical. -HAND
Llast 326 An Arkhos 3542	Posted - 2014.06.10 17:02:00 - [3] - Quote The PG on the Minscout is crippling in comparison to the the other scout suits. This is something that has long been discussed about the Min scout. I have run all the scout suits Proto Gal and Min Advanced Amarr and Cal While I know that the Min are traditionally the lowest in fitting capacity, but the level is punitively low on the Min scout. Easily fitting what I want on my Gal, Amarr, and Cal suits, while struggling to fit even the necessities, let alone variations. The Min bonuses encourage the use of higher PG items on the suit as well. Codebreakers, and Nova Knives specifically from the bonus, as well as Kinetic Catalyzers. Shields are also necessary as it is the lowest eHP suit. The Amarr penalty of one lower slot was removed from the scout role, can we lessen the fitting penalty of the Min as well? KRRROOOOOOM
Cyrius Li-Moody 0uter.Heaven 5719	Posted - 2014.06.10 17:28:00 - [4] - Quote Yes, increasing the PG on the min scout would be awesome. I'd actually be able to fit stuff. Shields use a ton of PG. Codebreakers use a ton of PG. Kincats use a ton of PG. Knives don't even have an optimization skill. Pretty much anything that makes the minmatar unique requires you to have a crappy suit if you want to take advantage of it. Youtuber. Your friendly neighborhood whiskey-fueled merc.
Ghost Kaisar The Last of DusT. General Tso's Alliance 5172	Posted - 2014.06.10 18:42:00 - [5] - Quote Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: Yes, increasing the PG on the min scout would be awesome. I'd actually be able to fit stuff. Shields use a ton of PG. Codebreakers use a ton of PG. Kincats use a ton of PG. Knives don't even have an optimization skill. Pretty much anything that makes the minmatar unique requires you to have a crappy suit if you want to take advantage of it. Please CCP! We need that PG! I'm not saying more because moody is right on the money Headed to Destiny, To Hell with CCP PSN: EVL_Elgost105 RIP Dust514 05/02/14 GG CCP
Abe Foster BlackWater Liquidations INTERGALACTIC WARPIGS 59	Posted - 2014.06.10 18:57:00 - [6] - Quote Thank you I am a M-scout and I often struggle on making a good fitting. It's nothing personal I just want to kill you to get payed. I am a merc It's so I can feed my family, can you blame me?
Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p 383	Posted - 2014.06.10 19:01:00 - [7] - Quote Must resist urge to permanently fix the min scout... In the meantime, i think that it really just needs a little more PG and a little more speed but, if you're really interested and have nothing to do for the next 5 minutes.... https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=90055&p=757 second post on the page, read it if you want, but if it is too much work, just give them some PG and maybe a small buff to sprint/move speed PS: fix cal scout hit box--it should not be a better speed tanker than the min scout 26-2 ambush with militia minmitar heavy, no relevant skills 9-3 proto minmitar scout Scount OP nurf it to grownd
Beren Hurin Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 2413	Posted - 2014.06.10 19:02:00 - [8] - Quote what weapons and equipment are you guys using? I'm suspicious of a buff because I think it would enable things like max dampening, PRO weapons, and dual PRO equipment with no sacrifice to fitting. I'm fine with scouts needing fitting restrictions. I bet you guys aren't using combat rifles and SMGs and fitting the longer range stuff on there like RRs and also expecting to have a tank to go with it. shame on you.
Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p 383	Posted - 2014.06.10 19:13:00 - [9] - Quote by the way, the ADV and STD min scouts are even worse at fitting...I have maxed skills and have to run basic mods and e-war stuff with a basic cloak and basic weapons, no grenade or extra eq. I strongly recommend buffing ADV and STD as well as proto, perhaps even more so 26-2 ambush with militia minmitar heavy, no relevant skills 9-3 proto minmitar scout Scount OP nurf it to grownd
Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p 383	Posted - 2014.06.10 19:16:00 - [10] - Quote Beren Hurin wrote: what weapons and equipment are you guys using? I'm suspicious of a buff because I think it would enable things like max dampening, PRO weapons, and dual PRO equipment with no sacrifice to fitting. I'm fine with scouts needing fitting restrictions. I bet you guys aren't using combat rifles and SMGs and fitting the longer range stuff on there like RRs and also expecting to have a tank to go with it. shame on you. No. Just no. 2 kin cats, 3 shields, adv specialist shotgun, basic smg, and basic cloak, no grenade, no other equipment, and this requires max skills to fit, with nothing left over. Please do not comment on this thread in a negative aspect if you do not run a minmitar scout. Thank you for your cooperation. 26-2 ambush with militia minmitar heavy, no relevant skills 9-3 proto minmitar scout Scount OP nurf it to grownd

Beren Hurin Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 2414	Posted - 2014.06.10 19:28:00 - [11] - Quote Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote: Beren Hurin wrote: what weapons and equipment are you guys using? I'm suspicious of a buff because I think it would enable things like max dampening, PRO weapons, and dual PRO equipment with no sacrifice to fitting. I'm fine with scouts needing fitting restrictions. I bet you guys aren't using combat rifles and SMGs and fitting the longer range stuff on there like RRs and also expecting to have a tank to go with it. shame on you. No. Just no. 2 kin cats, 3 shields, adv specialist shotgun, basic smg, and basic cloak, no grenade, no other equipment, and this requires max skills to fit, with nothing left over. Please do not comment on this thread in a negative aspect if you do not run a minmitar scout. Thank you for your cooperation. I do run min scout, but not with shotty. Its your kincats that are killing you. I don't run mine with kincats, and i've never been a lone-wolf player. That's a lone wolf fit and I don't think its the min scout role. I see the min scout either as a paper thin counter-scout, a minja hacker, or knife assassin. Its a suboptimal gangk suit to use with a shotgun. There are other suits that do that better. Giving it more PG is a super fast route to dual-tanking it which will be followed by a nerf-hammer. Figure out the role it is supposed to be in instead of asking for it to fit in the same role that other suits are made for.
Cyrius Li-Moody 0uter.Heaven 5729	Posted - 2014.06.10 19:29:00 - [12] - Quote Beren Hurin wrote: what weapons and equipment are you guys using? I'm suspicious of a buff because I think it would enable things like max dampening, PRO weapons, and dual PRO equipment with no sacrifice to fitting. I'm fine with scouts needing fitting restrictions. I bet you guys aren't using combat rifles and SMGs and fitting the longer range stuff on there like RRs and also expecting to have a tank to go with it. shame on you. What? Surely you jest. Youtuber. Your friendly neighborhood whiskey-fueled merc.
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 1894	Posted - 2014.06.10 19:37:00 - [13] - Quote . The REAL Internet King
Cyrius Li-Moody 0uter.Heaven 5732	Posted - 2014.06.10 19:45:00 - [14] - Quote And for the record you're not going to get any tankier than what you already can. It's easier to fit a 650 EHP min "assault" scout than a 400 ehp infiltrator/assassin. Youtuber. Your friendly neighborhood whiskey-fueled merc.
Llast 326 An Arkhos 3543	Posted - 2014.06.10 20:22:00 - [15] - Quote Beren Hurin wrote: what weapons and equipment are you guys using? I'm suspicious of a buff because I think it would enable things like max dampening, PRO weapons, and dual PRO equipment with no sacrifice to fitting. I'm fine with scouts needing fitting restrictions. I bet you guys aren't using combat rifles and SMGs and fitting the longer range stuff on there like RRs and also expecting to have a tank to go with it. shame on you. I run Nova Knives and Flaylock Also I have all Min weapons skilled to some degree, the only non Min ones are NK and SR because we never got our Precision Rifle I've spent more SP on fitting things than I have on things to fitGÇª My Min has a way more challenging time than my Gal for fittings, (they are separate characters) On Gal, Amarr, and Cal, I don't have to make the same level of sacrifice. I don't stack ModulesGÇª (I know rare and weird) Fitting EWAR, Shield and associated shield paraphernalia. Kincats, Damage Mod (not past enhancedGÇª) My Spouse runs an Amarr SentinelGÇª each module and weapon on it at Complex/Proto, no need for Electronics and Engineering past 2, no SP spent to optimize the fits. From looking at numbers and some of the feedback in these forums I don't see Sentinels sacrificing anything. It does not need to be a huge increase to PG, a small increase would help. AlsoGÇª how would a PG buff enable Max Dampening? KRRROOOOOOM
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 987	Posted - 2014.06.10 20:31:00 - [16] - Quote Atiim wrote: Along with a boost to the Matari Scout's powergrid, would it be possible to look into the PG requirements of the Kinetic Catylizers? It PG consumption makes it difficult (and in some instances) impossible to use at the Complex Tier on Matari Frames, which they are intended for. But this would affect the other suits as well. Waht about givig the minni scout a fitting cost reduction instead of the Hacking bonus or NK bonus...
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 1620	Posted - 2014.06.10 20:51:00 - [17] - Quote @ Beren Hurin I don't usually flat out tell someone they are wrong. In this case though, you are indeed as wrong as you can be. - J0LLY R0G3R PS: I'll eat both my shoes if you're doing it right and Musturd, Moody, Ghost, Radar, etc are doing it wrong. Shoot scout with yes... - Ripley Riley
Lynn Beck Heaven's Lost Property 1743	Posted - 2014.06.10 21:59:00 - [18] - Quote Beren Hurin wrote: what weapons and equipment are you guys using? I'm suspicious of a buff because I think it would enable things like max dampening, PRO weapons, and dual PRO equipment with no sacrifice to fitting. I'm fine with scouts needing fitting restrictions. I bet you guys aren't using combat rifles and SMGs and fitting the longer range stuff on there like RRs and also expecting to have a tank to go with it. shame on you. Proto scout, basic needle, basic (compact) hive, basic locus(sometimes Adv!) Siz Kin cr, zn-28 knives 1 complex kincat, 2 damps, 2 complex shield extenders, 1 empty high. I am at 88/89 or something, but 1 pg free, lv5 all fitting skills, aside from Cr fitting op. Try fitting codebreakers and i need to drop a shield extender to adv(saving 5 pg, but losing 36 HP) Try another kincat, and i have to lose both equips AND a shield extender. General John Ripper Like ALL the things!!!
Lynn Beck Heaven's Lost Property 1743	Posted - 2014.06.10 22:01:00 - [19] - Quote Meanwhile, my neo Gk.0(level 3) fits Adv cloak, 2 proto damps/proto kincats, proto shield extender x2, duvolle Ar and Sr-25 bolt pistol, all while having 50 cpu free and 6-8 Pg, and i can ACTUALLY fit locuses and/or a proto Smg. General John Ripper Like ALL the things!!!
Sir Dukey SAM-MIK General Tso's Alliance 1003	Posted - 2014.06.10 22:03:00 - [20] - Quote Atiim wrote: Along with a boost to the Matari Scout's powergrid, would it be possible to look into the PG requirements of the Kinetic Catylizers? It PG consumption makes it difficult (and in some instances) impossible to use at the Complex Tier on Matari Frames, which they are intended for. when you are running PG heavy shield extenders on top of PG heavy knives, kincats, cloak, and hacking mod, on a pg minimum scout, then there is a problem.

Lynn Beck Heaven's Lost Property 1747	Posted - 2014.06.10 22:17:00 - [21] - Quote Sir Dukey wrote: Atiim wrote: Along with a boost to the Matari Scout's powergrid, would it be possible to look into the PG requirements of the Kinetic Catylizers? It PG consumption makes it difficult (and in some instances) impossible to use at the Complex Tier on Matari Frames, which they are intended for. when you are running PG heavy shield extenders on top of PG heavy knives, kincats, cloak, and hacking mod, on a pg minimum scout, then there is a problem. What else wil we do? Damage mod stack? Armor tank? ...stamina tank? The minscout's bonuses are for Knivrs, hacking, and cloaks. No pg means: can't fit cloak at prototype, can't fit kincats(assists Knifing greatly, and makes sense for a Minmatar) can't use shield extenders(shield tanked suit) and can't ise Codebreakers(enforces and amplifies its' natural hacking bonuses.) Edit: this game is all about maximizing your strengths, Eg HP on Sentinels, Scanners/biotics on scouts. What would you prefer we do... SCAN tank a heavy? That's what you're telling us. Regen stacked logis aren't used for a reason, and same with 'scoutly' assaults stacking range/precision with kincats. General John Ripper Like ALL the things!!!
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 819	Posted - 2014.06.10 23:04:00 - [22] - Quote Beren Hurin wrote: Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote: Beren Hurin wrote: what weapons and equipment are you guys using? I'm suspicious of a buff because I think it would enable things like max dampening, PRO weapons, and dual PRO equipment with no sacrifice to fitting. I'm fine with scouts needing fitting restrictions. I bet you guys aren't using combat rifles and SMGs and fitting the longer range stuff on there like RRs and also expecting to have a tank to go with it. shame on you. No. Just no. 2 kin cats, 3 shields, adv specialist shotgun, basic smg, and basic cloak, no grenade, no other equipment, and this requires max skills to fit, with nothing left over. Please do not comment on this thread in a negative aspect if you do not run a minmitar scout. Thank you for your cooperation. I do run min scout, but not with shotty. Its your kincats that are killing you. I don't run mine with kincats, and i've never been a lone-wolf player. That's a lone wolf fit and I don't think its the min scout role. I see the min scout either as a paper thin counter-scout, a minja hacker, or knife assassin. Its a suboptimal gangk suit to use with a shotgun. There are other suits that do that better. Giving it more PG is a super fast route to dual-tanking it which will be followed by a nerf-hammer. Figure out the role it is supposed to be in instead of asking for it to fit in the same role that other suits are made for. Its a speed scout. It is meant to be fast. It isn't meant yo be a "lone wolf" suit? More than any othdr suit that is precisely what it was meant for, although more coyote than wolf. Because, that's why.
Echo 1991 WarRavens Final Resolution. 305	Posted - 2014.06.10 23:47:00 - [23] - Quote Why does everyone that wants the min scout buffed act like you cant fit anything on it? Kin cats have a high cost because they dont want people to be stupid fast. The suit needs PG, but not much. An increase of about 5-7 without skills added should be enough.
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 1912	Posted - 2014.06.11 00:07:00 - [24] - Quote Echo 1991 wrote: Why does everyone that wants the min scout buffed act like you cant fit anything on it? Kin cats have a high cost because they dont want people to be stupid fast. The suit needs PG, but not much. An increase of about 5-7 without skills added should be enough. Codebreakers? PG intensive. Sheild extenders? PG intensive. Cloak (to have a passing chance at not being detected in an approx 200 ehp suit)? PG intensive. Its not just one thing, its a lot of things. The suits are really hard to fit, and are weak in many areas. It requires the most sacrifice with the least amount of benefit. The REAL Internet King

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 2420	Posted - 2014.06.11 00:32:00 - [25] - Quote I will take a closer look at comparative PG/CPU and user data "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Sir Dukey SAM-MIK General Tso's Alliance 1003	Posted - 2014.06.11 01:07:00 - [26] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I will take a closer look at comparative PG/CPU and user data Don't forget, Kincats cost a lost of PG as do Shield extenders, and Hacking mods. These are three PG heavy mods that Minmitar are suppose to be using but cannot due to the fact that there is no PG on minni scout.
Atiim Heaven's Lost Property 9306	Posted - 2014.06.11 01:12:00 - [27] - Quote Korvin Lomont wrote: Atiim wrote: Along with a boost to the Matari Scout's powergrid, would it be possible to look into the PG requirements of the Kinetic Catylizers? It PG consumption makes it difficult (and in some instances) impossible to use at the Complex Tier on Matari Frames, which they are intended for. But this would affect the other suits as well. Waht about givig the minni scout a fitting cost reduction instead of the Hacking bonus or NK bonus... That would quite literally ruin the Matari Scout. Not to mention that this problem (albiet to a lesser extent) is shared by other Matari Suits as well. Amarrians would prefer you be faithful... I'd rather you be logical. -HAND
Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p 395	Posted - 2014.06.11 02:34:00 - [28] - Quote i really like my suggestion more- incorporate a speed cap of 11.12 m/s, give the hacking bonus as a base stat (give a reason to run the suit w/out proto level), and give the min scout as 55% bonus per level to kin cat efficacy so that at level 5 they cap out their speed with only one kin cat and can damp tank, which gives them extra PG to use for whatever It fixes the PG problem, improves NPE, discourages brick tanking, makes knifing viable, and keeps the suit at only truly shining in truly skillful hands. I see no reason why not to. To read my entire treatise on this topic: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=164912 26-2 ambush with militia minmitar heavy, no relevant skills 9-3 proto minmitar scout Scount OP nurf it to grownd
Ghost Kaisar The Last of DusT. General Tso's Alliance 5174	Posted - 2014.06.11 02:44:00 - [29] - Quote Beren Hurin wrote: what weapons and equipment are you guys using? I'm suspicious of a buff because I think it would enable things like max dampening, PRO weapons, and dual PRO equipment with no sacrifice to fitting. I'm fine with scouts needing fitting restrictions. I bet you guys aren't using combat rifles and SMGs and fitting the longer range stuff on there like RRs and also expecting to have a tank to go with it. shame on you. Yeah, totally. This is the Min Scout I run in PC. Please note that it requires Optimization V on the Combat rifle in order to fit it. This is the bare minimum to avoid scans, have decent health, and to try and take advantage of it's speed (Kincat) I don't have room for more equipment. At all. I can't even fit over 350 HP due to the PG of Complex Shields. Gal Scout for comparison Headed to Destiny, To Hell with CCP PSN: EVL_Elgost105 RIP Dust514 05/02/14 GG CCP
Appia Vibbia Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2867	Posted - 2014.06.11 03:09:00 - [30] - Quote Ghost Kaisar wrote: Beren Hurin wrote: what weapons and equipment are you guys using? I'm suspicious of a buff because I think it would enable things like max dampening, PRO weapons, and dual PRO equipment with no sacrifice to fitting. I'm fine with scouts needing fitting restrictions. I bet you guys aren't using combat rifles and SMGs and fitting the longer range stuff on there like RRs and also expecting to have a tank to go with it. shame on you. Yeah, totally. This is the Min Scout I run in PC. Please note that it requires Optimization V on the Combat rifle in order to fit it. This is the bare minimum to avoid scans, have decent health, and to try and take advantage of it's speed (Kincat) I don't have room for more equipment. At all. I can't even fit over 350 HP due to the PG of Complex Shields. Gal Scout for comparison I don't understand. Why run 2 damps? You get picked up by any Cal-Scout with 3 PE which is basically 1 out of 3 people in a PC Appia Vibbia for CPM1 AppiaVibbia(at)gmail(dot)com AKA Nappia, AKA Mathppia

Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 1652	Posted - 2014.06.11 03:18:00 - [31] - Quote Appia Vibbia wrote: I don't understand. Why run 2 damps? You get picked up by any Cal-Scout with 3 PE which is basically 1 out of 3 people in a PC I run 2 cPEs on my PC CalScout and scan at 18 dB. Ghost's MinScout runs Cloak:Off at 18.49 (18 dB) and Cloak:On at 16.49 (17 dB). His cloak's "active dampener" permits us to play hide-and-seek, but he has to run the Proto Cloak to play. This concern was first identified by Moody during Alpha discussions as another source of MinScout PG strain. Shoot scout with yes... - Ripley Riley
Ghost Kaisar The Last of DusT. General Tso's Alliance 5178	Posted - 2014.06.11 04:23:00 - [32] - Quote Appia Vibbia wrote: Ghost Kaisar wrote: Beren Hurin wrote: what weapons and equipment are you guys using? I'm suspicious of a buff because I think it would enable things like max dampening, PRO weapons, and dual PRO equipment with no sacrifice to fitting. I'm fine with scouts needing fitting restrictions. I bet you guys aren't using combat rifles and SMGs and fitting the longer range stuff on there like RRs and also expecting to have a tank to go with it. shame on you. Yeah, totally. This is the Min Scout I run in PC. Please note that it requires Optimization V on the Combat rifle in order to fit it. This is the bare minimum to avoid scans, have decent health, and to try and take advantage of it's speed (Kincat) I don't have room for more equipment. At all. I can't even fit over 350 HP due to the PG of Complex Shields. Gal Scout for comparison I don't understand. Why run 2 damps? You get picked up by any Cal-Scout with 3 PE which is basically 1 out of 3 people in a PC The only team that I've seen running 3x PE on a regular basis is Outer.Heaven ERA only has xDestruction and Espy running Cal-Scout, and Both only run 1-2 PE, so the fit works well against ERA Outer.Heavens scout spam is tough as hell to beat in a Min Scout. I don't even think anyone on their side runs Min anymore. I think they all run Gal/Cal now. Everyone else? I never have problems being scanned in that suit. Headed to Destiny, To Hell with CCP PSN: EVL_Elgost105 RIP Dust514 05/02/14 GG CCP

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 2443	Posted - 2014.06.11 04:30:00 - [33] - Quote I expected to see something "broken" and was ready to fix. Upon inspection this issue just needs proper analysis (Charlie or later) to be done by conserving the PG/CPU ecosphere. Raising it is not an option now. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Beren Hurin Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 2414	Posted - 2014.06.11 04:32:00 - [34] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I expected to see something "broken" and was ready to fix. Upon inspection this issue just needs proper analysis (Charlie or later) to be done by conserving the PG/CPU ecosphere. Raising it is not an option now. Very much agree. More pg means more role creep for the min scout.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 1655	Posted - 2014.06.11 04:34:00 - [35] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I expected to see something "broken" and was ready to fix. Upon inspection this issue just needs proper analysis (Charlie or later) to be done by conserving the PG/CPU ecosphere. Raising it is not an option now. Thank you for taking the time to investigate. I'll update the guys and ask 'em to hang tight. Beren Hurin wrote: Very much agree. More pg means more role creep for the min scout. You've no idea what you're talking about, and you probably don't even realize it. What's scary is that guys like you who readily reject expert opinion might come to outnumber the rest of us with time. Shoot scout with yes... - Ripley Riley
Appia Vibbia Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2869	Posted - 2014.06.11 04:55:00 - [36] - Quote Ghost Kaisar wrote: The only team that I've seen running 3x PE on a regular basis is Outer.Heaven ERA only has xDestruction and Espy running Cal-Scout, and Both only run 1-2 PE, so the fit works well against ERA Outer.Heavens scout spam is tough as hell to beat in a Min Scout. I don't even think anyone on their side runs Min anymore. I think they all run Gal/Cal now. Everyone else? I never have problems being scanned in that suit. really? Hmm, I just thought everyone ran 3x cPE and a shield or damage mod and 2 plates because that's what the meta drives you to. Adipem Nothi wrote: Scary Thought: Those who readily reject expert opinion in the "Features and Ideas Discussion" forum may soon outnumber the experts. Fixed that for you. Appia Vibbia for CPM1 AppiaVibbia(at)gmail(dot)com AKA Nappia, AKA Mathppia
Cyrius Li-Moody 0uter.Heaven 5763	Posted - 2014.06.11 06:29:00 - [37] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I expected to see something "broken" and was ready to fix. Upon inspection this issue just needs proper analysis (Charlie or later) to be done by conserving the PG/CPU ecosphere. Raising it is not an option now. I appreciate you looking into it. Honestly i'd settle for a knife optimization skill myself. I don't see why it's the only weapon without one. Youtuber. Your friendly neighborhood whiskey-fueled merc.

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 2464	Posted - 2014.06.11 07:41:00 - [38] - Quote Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I expected to see something "broken" and was ready to fix. Upon inspection this issue just needs proper analysis (Charlie or later) to be done by conserving the PG/CPU ecosphere. Raising it is not an option now. I appreciate you looking into it. Honestly i'd settle for a knife optimization skill myself. I don't see why it's the only weapon without one. That 2 PG would go a LONG way on the suit. Also if balancing shields goes well so using something other than a complex shield is feasible the Minmatar might not be so hard off. Currently it's a culmination of things as to why it runs out of PG. Basic and ADV shields are not worth the resources at all. It's complex or a completely different mod. Same thing can be said about knives. Proto knives are the only knives really worth using when you're in your proto suit as they're the only knives that MIGHT kill a heavy. Appia Vibbia wrote: Ghost Kaisar wrote: The only team that I've seen running 3x PE on a regular basis is Outer.Heaven ERA only has xDestruction and Espy running Cal-Scout, and Both only run 1-2 PE, so the fit works well against ERA Outer.Heavens scout spam is tough as hell to beat in a Min Scout. I don't even think anyone on their side runs Min anymore. I think they all run Gal/Cal now. Everyone else? I never have problems being scanned in that suit. really? Hmm, I just thought everyone ran 3x cPE and a shield or damage mod and 2 plates because that's what the meta drives you to. We don't have any more scouts than anyone else. We just have ones that have enough common sense to adapt to meta. I know first hand how much it sucks being a Minmatar scout in PC so I will gladly ensure nobody can use theirs either. :3 I only use my min scout to spawn in, hack, and die. That's all I really consider it to be good for. In any other situation besides standing at a control panel i'd rather be using my Caldari. We are making ADV extenders better, check the Shields tab in the Numbers "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

IgniteableAura The Last of DusT. General Tso's Alliance 1218	Posted - 2014.06.11 13:33:00 - [39] - Quote Used to run Winmitar scout but got out of it when respec hit (moved to Gal/Cal) because of the issues others are mentioning here. It needs some TLC, likely in the form of some extra PG. Remove some CPU for PG if necessary. It currently doesn't need the CPU. I am actually curious why it has the most CPU out of all the scout suits? What was the design decision behind that? For compare Max Skills: Pro A 446, 91 C 456, 86 G 433, 97 M 480, 81 Adv A 312, 64 C 320, 60 G 303, 68 M 336, 56 I think what would be a good compromise would be a PG buff to be between cal and gal. The shield extender changes could make a pretty big difference in fitting flexibility. Also, looking at those numbers, I thought amarr was supposed to have the best fitting capacity? It currently doesn't, yet another reason why amarr is the low guy on the totem. Youtube
Velociraptor antirrhopus Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 186	Posted - 2014.06.11 13:39:00 - [40] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I expected to see something "broken" and was ready to fix. Upon inspection this issue just needs proper analysis (Charlie or later) to be done by conserving the PG/CPU ecosphere. Raising it is not an option now. In my opinion - and I'm not even a Min Scout yet although I have an alt Minja with 6 million SP The Caldari Scout's scan precision is what's really holding the Minmatar back. Removing the cloak's dampening bonus really crippled their hack speed potential. My thoughts on Hotfix Alpha: First I noticed a scout running from my AR. Then a heavy. Then a COMBAT RIFLE USER. CCP +1

Appia Vibbia Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2877	Posted - 2014.06.11 14:41:00 - [41] - Quote Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: We don't have any more scouts than anyone else. We just have ones that have enough common sense to adapt to meta. I know first hand how much it sucks being a Minmatar scout in PC so I will gladly ensure nobody can use theirs either. :3 I only use my min scout to spawn in, hack, and die. That's all I really consider it to be good for. In any other situation besides standing at a control panel i'd rather be using my Caldari. I still run Min-Scout with 3 complex damps, an Ishukone Cloak, and IshNoKs. I mean, yeah, I could do a way better job in my Gallente Scout because those 3 complex damps to get under Cal-Scout/Gal-Logi scans makes the suit obsolete but I still have like 80 AUR suits left over from the Nova-Knife event. Appia Vibbia for CPM1 AppiaVibbia(at)gmail(dot)com AKA Nappia, AKA Mathppia
Sir Dukey SAM-MIK General Tso's Alliance 1009	Posted - 2014.06.11 16:00:00 - [42] - Quote Lynn Beck wrote: Sir Dukey wrote: Atiim wrote: Along with a boost to the Matari Scout's powergrid, would it be possible to look into the PG requirements of the Kinetic Catylizers? It PG consumption makes it difficult (and in some instances) impossible to use at the Complex Tier on Matari Frames, which they are intended for. when you are running PG heavy shield extenders on top of PG heavy knives, kincats, cloak, and hacking mod, on a pg minimum scout, then there is a problem. What else wil we do? Damage mod stack? Armor tank? ...stamina tank? The minscout's bonuses are for Knivrs, hacking, and cloaks. No pg means: can't fit cloak at prototype, can't fit kincats(assists Knifing greatly, and makes sense for a Minmatar) can't use shield extenders(shield tanked suit) and can't ise Codebreakers(enforces and amplifies its' natural hacking bonuses.) Edit: this game is all about maximizing your strengths, Eg HP on Sentinels, Scanners/biotics on scouts. What would you prefer we do... SCAN tank a heavy? That's what you're telling us. Regen stacked logis aren't used for a reason, and same with 'scoutly' assaults stacking range/precision with kincats. I'm on your side dude!!!! I'm a Minmitar scout and have been since the beginning of time.
IgniteableAura Pro Hic Immortalis 1246	Posted - 2014.06.15 03:39:00 - [43] - Quote Since devs are tracking this thread please look into shotgun hit detection as shotguns are "bread and butter" weapons for scouts. See attached video for evidence http://youtu.be/CNGM-RgxVH Youtube
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 1850	Posted - 2014.06.15 05:51:00 - [44] - Quote IgniteableAura wrote: Since devs are tracking this thread please look into shotgun hit detection as shotguns are "bread and butter" weapons for scouts. See attached video for evidence http://youtu.be/CNGM-RgxVH The link above is bad; here's the Tech Support / Bug Thread (the link there works). Shoot scout with yes... - Ripley Riley
Argetlam Thorson Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 61	Posted - 2014.06.15 09:09:00 - [45] - Quote I'd be perfectly fine with only a buff to the hack speed bonus, as I can fit my Proto hack scout fairly easily. Maybe a dampening or precision bonus so I get shotgunned in the back by Gal scouts less, but I don't want to be greedy. Maybe double the hack bonus from 5% to 10%. Codebreakers would allow ridiculously fast hacks, but it would be a paper bag suit, like mine already is. Get in, get the hack off, drop an RE, and get out of dodge. Wash, rinse, repeat.
Master Smurf Nos Nothi 517	Posted - 2014.06.15 14:36:00 - [46] - Quote I think a bonus to reduce PG on Kinetic Catalysers or Shield Extenders could also do the trick. When you run a Min Scout with these complex modules you really have a limited choice of weapons. This is so even if you use a dampener and/or energizer. If the thinking on the Min Scout is fine with this constraint, then it must follow trough for CPU/PG on all other suits to force these harder weapon / modules choices. "Shine bright like a diamond"
Lynn Beck NoGameNoLife 1828	Posted - 2014.06.15 21:53:00 - [47] - Quote Personally, i find that the major limiting factor is the 'proto or die' mindset with Kincats and Shield extenders With the change to Shield extenders, i might be stacking Enhanced extenders instead of proto, as those save 5 Pg as the loss of 16 HP. How much that will help though, is yet to be determined. I'm sensing a lot of others will be following, as 11 pg for 16 moreHP isn't worth it. Consider please changing the PG on shields to be non-Analogous to Armor Plates. Anyways, really loving how Ratatti is doing things around here. General John Ripper Like ALL the things!!!
Master Smurf Nos Nothi 518	Posted - 2014.06.16 00:55:00 - [48] - Quote Lynn Beck wrote: Personally, i find that the major limiting factor is the 'proto or die' mindset with Kincats and Shield extenders With the change to Shield extenders, i might be stacking Enhanced extenders instead of proto, as those save 5 Pg as the loss of 16 HP. How much that will help though, is yet to be determined. I'm sensing a lot of others will be following, as 11 pg for 16 moreHP isn't worth it. Consider please changing the PG on shields to be non-Analogous to Armor Plates. Anyways, really loving how Ratatti is doing things around here. Oh I understand this but my comment wasnt "go complex or go home" - It was using a complex setup and it being very difficult on a min scout but not an issue on the others with them usually having more PG to fit a diverse range of weapons. The issue is the same regardless of level of modules - the other suits will fit easier with Minny being left with just a CR unless the go low shields or forsake catalysers - and what advantage does that give them???? "Shine bright like a diamond"
Crimson ShieId Psygod9 540	Posted - 2014.06.16 03:00:00 - [49] - Quote The Minmatar scout PG is fine under normal circumstances, fitting most modules isn't as easy as the other suits, but it's a breeze either way with the buff that came with the last patch. However, that all changes once one tries to fit Kinetic Catalyzers. Perhaps instead of simply buffing the PG on the suits, a third buff could be added to reduce the PG on these little speed modules, thus encouraging the players who run the suit to actually use them to their advantages instead of simply brick tanking them like every other scout suit now. Or, ya know... you could just reduce the PG on Kincats... whatever works! Nova Knives are best sidearm.
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 2016	Posted - 2014.06.16 03:03:00 - [50] - Quote Crimson ShieId wrote: The Minmatar scout PG is fine under normal circumstances, fitting most modules isn't as easy as the other suits, but it's a breeze either way with the buff that came with the last patch. However, that all changes once one tries to fit Kinetic Catalyzers. Perhaps instead of simply buffing the PG on the suits, a third buff could be added to reduce the PG on these little speed modules, thus encouraging the players who run the suit to actually use them to their advantages instead of simply brick tanking them like every other scout suit now. Or, ya know... you could just reduce the PG on Kincats... whatever works! You can brick tank a minja? This is how a minja feels

Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 1902	Posted - 2014.06.16 03:10:00 - [51] - Quote Lynn Beck wrote: Personally, i find that the major limiting factor is the 'proto or die' mindset with Kincats and Shield extenders. Compared to each of the other Scouts, the Minmatar is disproportionately restricted in terms of its fitting capabilities. Scout-related modules are PG-intensitve; Minmatar don't get much PG. Relative fitting flexibility is a constant, comparative value; it is not affected by a "mindset" (or anything else). Shoot scout with yes... - Ripley Riley
Crimson ShieId Psygod9 540	Posted - 2014.06.16 03:11:00 - [52] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: Crimson ShieId wrote: The Minmatar scout PG is fine under normal circumstances, fitting most modules isn't as easy as the other suits, but it's a breeze either way with the buff that came with the last patch. However, that all changes once one tries to fit Kinetic Catalyzers. Perhaps instead of simply buffing the PG on the suits, a third buff could be added to reduce the PG on these little speed modules, thus encouraging the players who run the suit to actually use them to their advantages instead of simply brick tanking them like every other scout suit now. Or, ya know... you could just reduce the PG on Kincats... whatever works! You can brick tank a minja? I did it once, was actually easier than fitting my Kincats, but it wasn't much fun and I never did it again... well, I take that back. My counter sniper fit is brick tanked and would be even more so if I had complex plates. Nova Knives are best sidearm.


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