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Varoth Drac
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
121
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Posted - 2014.06.12 20:47:00 -
[1] - Quote
I know it's boring but I think the answer is just slight buffs to assault (medium frame) hp and regen. Maybe slightly increase the Gallente hip fire bonus and the Caldari reload bonus.
I have very carefully compared scout, assault and logistic suits and predictably the differences are not as pronounced as the forums would have you believe. I know commandos full fill a similar role but they do feel a lot slower which, combined with the weapon differences, distinguishes them from assaults.
What distinguishes an assault from a scout or logi fitted like an assault?
Assaults have more hp and better weapons than scouts but are a little slower and have minimal ewar. They are faster, have more base hp, better regen and better weapons than logis, but less slots, less equipment and less effective equipment.
Straight damage increases would overlap with commandos. Also I feel the current bonuses are good, except that possibly the Gal and Cal bonuses need buffing.
Increasing speed would overlap with scouts.
Increasing slots would overlap with logis who are supposed to have the most versatile slot configuration, something that is key to the philosophy of the suit. Logis are not just about equipment and hp stacking.
This leaves hp and hp regen. I believe small increases to these stats would solidify assault suits as the premium fast, group combat suit. Leaving stealthy assassination to scouts and support/versatility to logis.
One other thing that might need buffing is assault cpu/pg. Only because the equipment slots on logi and scout suits allow more fitting room if you skimp on equipment fitting. |
Varoth Drac
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
121
|
Posted - 2014.06.13 07:08:00 -
[2] - Quote
I see a lot of people claim scouts have the same or more hp than assaults. This is simply not true.
For example, a fully shield tanked advanced caldari assault has about 35% more hp than a fully shield tanked advanced caldari scout.
For comparison, the scout only has a 9% higher movement speed. |
Varoth Drac
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
121
|
Posted - 2014.06.13 07:54:00 -
[3] - Quote
Boot Booter wrote:I frequently see scouts with more hp than my min assault (600 HP at pro usually). Yes assaults CAN out tank a scout, but the point is that the HP scouts can achieve is far to close to the average medium frame. Mix this along with better ewar and regen and speed.. Well that's why no one is using assault.
But don't you see, saying that scouts "can achieve" more hp than the "average medium frame" is not a fair comparison because you are comparing brick tanked proto suits with non-brick standard/advanced suits. Or armor tanked suits with shield tanked suits.
Considering balance is more complex than that. You need to compare equivalent tiers and similar tanking styles. |
Varoth Drac
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
121
|
Posted - 2014.06.13 13:37:00 -
[4] - Quote
Lorhak Gannarsein wrote:
Amarr suit comparison
This is much better. The Amarr assault is gaining a low slot in hot fix bravo which will change things a lot. I use Amarr assaults myself and definitely agree that it needs the extra slot to be comparable to the other assaults. The bonus is awesome though.
The Amarr scout is considered to be the worst, however not because of it's lack of ability to be an assault suit but because it lacks a bonus that is helpful in the scout role.
Maybe regen (as well as base hp and cpu/pg as I have already suggested) is something else that needs adjusting for assaults and maybe scouts too. Though care would be needed as with the upcoming improvements to regulators and rechargers it would be a shame if nobody felt the need to use them.
So thanks for the proper comparison but I don't think you chose a good example considering the upcoming changes to Amarr assaults.
I still think it's a great exaggeration to say that scout suits (fitted for the assault role) have similar hp to assault suits.
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Varoth Drac
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
121
|
Posted - 2014.06.13 16:49:00 -
[5] - Quote
Boot Booter wrote:Caldari suit comparison
I can't really argue with this. As you pointed out, whilst the assault does have more hp than the scout the difference is minimal when it tries to compete with the regen.
I do think Caldari are the main problem though, since Caldari scouts benefit so much from the high regen as well as having the best regen. The other scouts are much less of an issue following the Gallente scout nerf in alpha and the upcoming amarr assault buff in bravo (if you compare like races).
So the issue really is that Caldari scout's high regen is an assault stat that pushes the balance too far in their favour.
How about this for a balance fix then:
Give Cal and Min scout and assault suits a regen of 30hp/s and give Gal and Amarr scout and assault suits a regen of 20hp/s.
A small change like this I believe is all we need to restore balance. Maybe cpu/pg levels would need a slight tweak too as I have stated before, to overcome the fitting freedom that suits with multiple equipment enjoy if they skimp on equipment.
edit: forgot about shield delay, normalise that too. |
Varoth Drac
the unholy legion of darkstar
DARKSTAR ARMY
121
|
Posted - 2014.06.13 21:15:00 -
[6] - Quote
Well as Bojo mentioned, regen is important for scouts who are designed to operate away from their teammates and to utilise guerrilla hit and run tactics.
It is also important for assaults who need to be able to keep up the pressure on the enemy.
To be honest I was thinking equal regen would be the fairest way to go and wouldn't amount to too drastic a change all in one go, which people have said time and again causes balance problem. Also I want to encourage the use of shield regulators to prevent dual tanking.
Also
Damage: assault > scout - due to the weapon bonuses.
So the picture would be more like this:
Regeneration: assault = scout
HP: assault > scout
Speed: assault < scout
Ewar: assault < scout
Damage: assault > scout
Really the thing that makes assault suits special are the weapon bonuses. I use an Amarr assault because of the heat bonus.
If Minmatar assaults weren't so hard to fit I bet they would be used for the combat rifle bonus.
Maybe the Gal and Cal bonuses aren't quite strong enough to be attractive. Though I have heard good things about the Cal bonus from people who have tried it.
Personally I like the sound of the the other bonuses and would be sad if they were replaced. I think maybe they just need buffing a bit. Or people need time to realise they don't suck after other changes are made (talking about alpha, bravo and the proposed regen changes). The AR has only just been dragged out of the gutter for example. |
Varoth Drac
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
128
|
Posted - 2014.06.19 15:19:00 -
[7] - Quote
Fox Gaden wrote:2% per level Damage buff for Assault Suits, on top of the bonuses they already have, to help define their role as a medium health DPS class. I don't like damage bonus suggestions for assaults as that is a commando bonus.
I would prefer changes be made to the base suit stats rather than changes to bonuses or slot configurations.
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