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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
10233
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Posted - 2014.06.09 12:37:00 -
[1] - Quote
CPU upgrades already give insane amounts of CPU, there really is no need to buff them.
Here are the numbers I would propose: Proto: 66 ADV: 44 STD: 33
Make sure that both shield extenders and armor plates are PG hungry, so that fitting both would be difficult at best.
Regulators: Proto: 40% ADV: 30% STD: 20%
Rechargers and Energizers: I would keep the numbers the same, MAYBE reduce CPU and increase PG slightly. Also, you should look at the penalty on energizers, as it only applies to the base HP of shields, so for everything except heavies it's a much better deal than rechargers.
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
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Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
10254
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Posted - 2014.06.09 23:46:00 -
[2] - Quote
Lynn Beck wrote: Personally i see no problems with a Caldari Assault reaching 600 shields with a 1.6 second delay with a rate of 50, or a HP of 400 with a delay of 1.6 and a rate of 116, OR 600/300 HPs, with a delay of 8 or 10, with a rate of 50. That kind of makes the Gallente Assault useless... That's 200 more shields than I have armor, 40/30~ more HP/s, all for a tiny little 1.6 seconds delay. Or same HP with 100 less HP/s.
You have to consider speed as a factor, plating without ferroscales is expensive to your speed, if a Cal Assault can achieve similar (or in this case better) results without any speed penalty, that's simply imbalanced.
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
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Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
10262
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Posted - 2014.06.10 13:38:00 -
[3] - Quote
Boot Booter wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Lynn Beck wrote: Personally i see no problems with a Caldari Assault reaching 600 shields with a 1.6 second delay with a rate of 50, or a HP of 400 with a delay of 1.6 and a rate of 116, OR 600/300 HPs, with a delay of 8 or 10, with a rate of 50. That kind of makes the Gallente Assault useless... That's 200 more shields than I have armor, 40/30~ more HP/s, all for a tiny little 1.6 seconds delay. Or same HP with 100 less HP/s. You have to consider speed as a factor, plating without ferroscales is expensive to your speed, if a Cal Assault can achieve similar (or in this case better) results without any speed penalty, that's simply imbalanced. Here are a few common Gal Assault fits for Hotfix Alpha (Numbers aren't 100% accurate, but very close): 420 armor / 11hp/s / 8.23m/s - Very PG heavy 420 armor / 20hp/s / 7.35m/s - Very PG heavy 510 armor / 11hp/s / 7.35m/s - Medium PG 504 armor / 20hp/s / 6.77m/s - Medium / High PG 410 armor / 30hp/s / 6.9m/s - Very high PG AND CPU This should give you a ball park of the relationship between armor, repair and speed. Those numbers for the Caldari Assault would not be achievable without a ridiculous buff to shield extenders. Not to mention that shield recharger practically require one low for a CPU upgrade. A more reasonable Caldari Assault would look like. 470 shield / 48hp/s with a 1.75 delay This assumes that complex regulator gets buffed to 40% and extenders and recharger at pro remains the same. Does that balance with the gallente assault? Hmm ideally heavy regen shields repair twice as fast as heavy regen armor. So for your gallente it would be around 20 seconds (20 hp/s * 20s = 400 hp). For that Caldari Assault it would be 11.75 seconds. This seems OK to me once you factor in the shield as a buffer on armor tankers and the ability for damage mods in high slots. It doesn't to me considering shield tankers have an armor buffer to save their asses, where as armor tankers don't have a clear time to GTFO since we are fighting with our last line of defense. One of the many reasons people don't hull tank in EVE.
We're talking about a Gallente suit here bud, we are supposed to repair the **** out of our armor
In addition, damage mods are bad, shield extenders give much better results... So... We are practically forced to dual tank because there are no worthwhile utility modules.
And lastly, that CPU extender doesn't just help you shield tank. All my Caldari fits have proto light weapons, sidearms, grenades, equipment, all because I have a **** ton of CPU left over. My Gallente fits are lucky to have a proto light weapon.
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
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Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
10262
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Posted - 2014.06.10 14:55:00 -
[4] - Quote
DeathwindRising wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Boot Booter wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Lynn Beck wrote: Personally i see no problems with a Caldari Assault reaching 600 shields with a 1.6 second delay with a rate of 50, or a HP of 400 with a delay of 1.6 and a rate of 116, OR 600/300 HPs, with a delay of 8 or 10, with a rate of 50. That kind of makes the Gallente Assault useless... That's 200 more shields than I have armor, 40/30~ more HP/s, all for a tiny little 1.6 seconds delay. Or same HP with 100 less HP/s. You have to consider speed as a factor, plating without ferroscales is expensive to your speed, if a Cal Assault can achieve similar (or in this case better) results without any speed penalty, that's simply imbalanced. Here are a few common Gal Assault fits for Hotfix Alpha (Numbers aren't 100% accurate, but very close): 420 armor / 11hp/s / 8.23m/s - Very PG heavy 420 armor / 20hp/s / 7.35m/s - Very PG heavy 510 armor / 11hp/s / 7.35m/s - Medium PG 504 armor / 20hp/s / 6.77m/s - Medium / High PG 410 armor / 30hp/s / 6.9m/s - Very high PG AND CPU This should give you a ball park of the relationship between armor, repair and speed. Those numbers for the Caldari Assault would not be achievable without a ridiculous buff to shield extenders. Not to mention that shield recharger practically require one low for a CPU upgrade. A more reasonable Caldari Assault would look like. 470 shield / 48hp/s with a 1.75 delay This assumes that complex regulator gets buffed to 40% and extenders and recharger at pro remains the same. Does that balance with the gallente assault? Hmm ideally heavy regen shields repair twice as fast as heavy regen armor. So for your gallente it would be around 20 seconds (20 hp/s * 20s = 400 hp). For that Caldari Assault it would be 11.75 seconds. This seems OK to me once you factor in the shield as a buffer on armor tankers and the ability for damage mods in high slots. It doesn't to me considering shield tankers have an armor buffer to save their asses, where as armor tankers don't have a clear time to GTFO since we are fighting with our last line of defense. One of the many reasons people don't hull tank in EVE. We're talking about a Gallente suit here bud, we are supposed to repair the **** out of our armor In addition, damage mods are bad, shield extenders give much better results... So... We are practically forced to dual tank because there are no worthwhile utility modules. And lastly, that CPU extender doesn't just help you shield tank. All my Caldari fits have proto light weapons, sidearms, grenades, equipment, all because I have a **** ton of CPU left over. My Gallente fits are lucky to have a proto light weapon. perhaps new damage mods that work only against shields or armor but with a higher damage bonus? especially since thats what they did already to the proficiency skills and this is all kinda off track, but what the melee damage mod included a bonus to movement speed? to offset the penalties from armor plates complex regulators with 40% to shield delay but 25% to depleted shield delay? honestly, why would you be letting your shields go to zero in the first place unless youre armor tanking? Honestly I will be happy if kin cats were moved to high slots and got their PG requirements cut back.
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
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Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
10262
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Posted - 2014.06.10 14:56:00 -
[5] - Quote
If PG upgrades got moved to high slots too that would be eternal bliss for me.
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
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Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
10267
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Posted - 2014.06.10 17:52:00 -
[6] - Quote
Boot Booter wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Boot Booter wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Lynn Beck wrote: Personally i see no problems with a Caldari Assault reaching 600 shields with a 1.6 second delay with a rate of 50, or a HP of 400 with a delay of 1.6 and a rate of 116, OR 600/300 HPs, with a delay of 8 or 10, with a rate of 50. That kind of makes the Gallente Assault useless... That's 200 more shields than I have armor, 40/30~ more HP/s, all for a tiny little 1.6 seconds delay. Or same HP with 100 less HP/s. You have to consider speed as a factor, plating without ferroscales is expensive to your speed, if a Cal Assault can achieve similar (or in this case better) results without any speed penalty, that's simply imbalanced. Here are a few common Gal Assault fits for Hotfix Alpha (Numbers aren't 100% accurate, but very close): 420 armor / 11hp/s / 8.23m/s - Very PG heavy 420 armor / 20hp/s / 7.35m/s - Very PG heavy 510 armor / 11hp/s / 7.35m/s - Medium PG 504 armor / 20hp/s / 6.77m/s - Medium / High PG 410 armor / 30hp/s / 6.9m/s - Very high PG AND CPU This should give you a ball park of the relationship between armor, repair and speed. Those numbers for the Caldari Assault would not be achievable without a ridiculous buff to shield extenders. Not to mention that shield recharger practically require one low for a CPU upgrade. A more reasonable Caldari Assault would look like. 470 shield / 48hp/s with a 1.75 delay This assumes that complex regulator gets buffed to 40% and extenders and recharger at pro remains the same. Does that balance with the gallente assault? Hmm ideally heavy regen shields repair twice as fast as heavy regen armor. So for your gallente it would be around 20 seconds (20 hp/s * 20s = 400 hp). For that Caldari Assault it would be 11.75 seconds. This seems OK to me once you factor in the shield as a buffer on armor tankers and the ability for damage mods in high slots. It doesn't to me considering shield tankers have an armor buffer to save their asses, where as armor tankers don't have a clear time to GTFO since we are fighting with our last line of defense. One of the many reasons people don't hull tank in EVE. We're talking about a Gallente suit here bud, we are supposed to repair the **** out of our armor In addition, damage mods are bad, shield extenders give much better results... So... We are practically forced to dual tank because there are no worthwhile utility modules. And lastly, that CPU extender doesn't just help you shield tank. All my Caldari fits have proto light weapons, sidearms, grenades, equipment, all because I have a **** ton of CPU left over. My Gallente fits are lucky to have a proto light weapon. I fit a gallente on protofits with 500 armor and 200 shields with armor rep of 20 HP/s, two proto precision enhancers, proto weapon, advanced sidearm, and advanced nanohive. Please keep in mind how tough shield extenders are on PG. In our little comparison the gallente has 100 more HP and the Caldari has zero armor rep. I really think you are over estimating the cal assault in this case. If it's a long range encounter cal assault has advantage but if you met head to head, within the AR range the Caldari is done for. Furthermore armor is always repping, if your engagement lasts just 5 seconds (reasonable for two good players 1v1) then your 100 HP original advantage all the sudden becomes 200 HP advantage. Edit : Oh and in a real fight, the gallente still holds and advantage to brawl with multiple enemies. Shield tankers get screwed really fast if they get caught with their pants down and can't break fire. Trust me it happens all the time. You do know that I'm comparing it to a suggestion and not current numbers? Your fit will be completely outdone by the suggestion I'm arguing against.
I actually think that Prototype Gallente Assault = Prototype Caldari Assault, and that only STD and ADV needs some help.
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
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Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
10279
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Posted - 2014.06.11 02:01:00 -
[7] - Quote
Baal Omniscient wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Honestly I will be happy if kin cats were moved to high slots and got their PG requirements cut back. Sorry CatMerc, but a armor tanked Amarr Sentinel with 2x complex kincats would be the absolute end of Dust for me as far as I'm concerned. Hell, a 50/50 rep/armor stacked Gallente Sentinal with 1 complex Kincat would be f'n insane. I'd be happy to give you PG upgrades, Cardiac regs and codebreakers as highs if you need high slot variety though. Eh, good enough.
TBH I don't see your problem here, shields are now performing very close to armor at prototype, the majority of tweaks need to happen at STD/ADV. Moving kin cats to high slots won't really change anything, other than me being one step closer to a true Gallente (Gallente use afterburners and Micro Warp Drives to close the distance quickly and destroy the enemy with short range weaponry in EVE).
But hey, I can accept PG upgrades, cardiac regs and code breakers, good enough I guess.
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
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Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
10280
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Posted - 2014.06.11 02:53:00 -
[8] - Quote
DeathwindRising wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Baal Omniscient wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Honestly I will be happy if kin cats were moved to high slots and got their PG requirements cut back. Sorry CatMerc, but a armor tanked Amarr Sentinel with 2x complex kincats would be the absolute end of Dust for me as far as I'm concerned. Hell, a 50/50 rep/armor stacked Gallente Sentinal with 1 complex Kincat would be f'n insane. I'd be happy to give you PG upgrades, Cardiac regs and codebreakers as highs if you need high slot variety though. Eh, good enough. TBH I don't see your problem here, shields are now performing very close to armor at prototype, the majority of tweaks need to happen at STD/ADV. Moving kin cats to high slots won't really change anything, other than me being one step closer to a true Gallente (Gallente use afterburners and Micro Warp Drives to close the distance quickly and destroy the enemy with short range weaponry in EVE). But hey, I can accept PG upgrades, cardiac regs and code breakers, good enough I guess. make kincats high slots and damage mods low slots Why not?
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
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Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
10280
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Posted - 2014.06.11 03:11:00 -
[9] - Quote
One Eyed King wrote:There is already a thread detailing how that would be a bad thing by many experienced minjas here. It doesn't detail anything, just people saying "it will be bad" without explaining why. That's the opposite of detailing.
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
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Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
10280
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Posted - 2014.06.11 04:06:00 -
[10] - Quote
Shotty GoBang wrote:Cat Merc wrote: It doesn't detail anything, just people saying "it will be bad" without explaining why. That's the opposite of detailing.
@ Cat Merc I understand you've enjoyed your past 3 months as a "Scout". I understand you're having tons 'o fun slapping bricks on our precision instrument, and I'm sure you're quite good at it. I understand you'd like to "go fast" at 700 HP 'cause it'd be #yoloswag (or whatever you slayer types call it) so why not switch Biotics to highs? But Scouts -- actual Scouts -- don't appreciate popping into official feedback threads and finding our beloved, precision instruments being discussed, defiled and/or tweaked to support the whims of an "Assault Lite" FoTM-chasing band of Tourist scrubs and wannabes. No offense. If you'd like to know why your ideas on Scouts are bad, post them here and actual Scouts will be glad to tell you. Seriously, we welcome all inquiries and would enjoy spit-balling concepts and crafting theories; pop in anytime, you might actually learn something. This same invitation is extended to everyone, Scout or otherwise. Swing by the Barbershop if you want to talk Scout or have ideas for / about Scouts. When and if you stop by, don't forget to ask for your free shave. Closest in New Eden. o7 I'm sorry, I guess 300-400 HP is the new 700 HP? You can piss off sir, my scouts have never been deployed with more than 500HP, and even that was for only one match of testing.
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
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