I literally just stood up and said to myself "Why didn't I think of that?!" /facepalm

(Apologies to anyone that actually did suggest it earlier that we may have missed.)

I'll have a chat with CCP Ratatti and we can some numbers. That might actually work better, not to mention it would be closer to the Amarr and Minmatar scouts which also have module/weapon efficacy bonuses as well.

She reads minds

The question is, do I just leave that as is and make you feel awe towards my spreadsheet warrior skills...

... or do I tell you I posted these stats in the Gallente Scout feedback page because I made them 2 weeks ago.

Here are some numbers

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1nJp1KcwzCLy4WICjpx49jUA46uqKulFvAakmyvxcbJc/edit?usp=sharing

And now I'll ask my Scoutly brothers to come in and fill in the rest of the explanation as I'm exhausted and need to sleep.

IMO, I really like pairing Caldari bonus to Precision Enhancers to 4% per level and Gallente bonus to Profile Dampeners at 3%

Changed my mind. Please remove dampening bonus from Gallente, give them a bonus to range Amplifiers. Give Caldari 4% bonus per level to Precision Enhancers

---

Why do I support these changes?
Basically, Stealth needs to be an aspect of every Scout suit. If Gallente have an advantage over other suits and a Precision/Dampening balance between Gallente and Caldari create problems for Minmatar and Amarr.

By removing Gallente Scout's bonus to Dampening we can then balance Caldari Precision against the Role instead of a single suit.

To keep Gallente from being the Brick Tank of choice 2 dampeners and a choice between a thrid dampener and a cloak needs to exist (without extensive rework done on the cloak to make it an option and not associate it with dampening. which would need another balance pass on scan/precision). The Minmatar Scout also need this option as too keep the balance between active dampening and speed or active dampening and hacking.

And now I'll ask my Scoutly brothers to come in and fill in the rest of the explanation as I'm exhausted and need to sleep.

Why do I support these changes?
Basically, Stealth needs to be an aspect of every Scout suit. If Gallente have an advantage over other suits and a Precision/Dampening balance between Gallente and Caldari create problems for Minmatar and Amarr.

By removing Gallente Scout's bonus to Dampening we can then balance Caldari Precision against the Role instead of a single suit.

To keep Gallente from being the Brick Tank of choice 2 dampeners and a choice between a thrid dampener and a cloak needs to exist (without extensive rework done on the cloak to make it an option and not associate it with dampening. which would need another balance pass on scan/precision). The Minmatar Scout also need this option as too keep the balance between active dampening and speed or active dampening and hacking.

Appia, I can't make sense out of your spreadsheet.
Is it possible for you to restructure it to match Rattati's?
(i.e. Current Value, Proposed Value)

Questions:
A) By what means did you come to the proposed percentage values?
B) In your calculations, is the proposed efficacy bonus subject to stacking penalty?
C) What is the proposed dB value of CalScout precision at 1, 2, 3 and 4 cPE?
D) What is the net change (current vs proposed) to CalScout precision at 1, 2, 3 and 4 cPE?
E) How many Damps will a Scout need to beat CalScout precision at 1, 2, 3 and 4 cPE?

[quote=CCP Logibro]I literally just stood up and said to myself "Why didn't I think of that?!" /facepalm

(Apologies to anyone that actually did suggest it earlier that we may have missed.)

I'll have a chat with CCP Ratatti and we can some numbers. That might actually work better, not to mention it would be closer to the Amarr and Minmatar scouts which also have module/weapon efficacy bonuses as well.

Appia supports and endorses the removal of Gallente Dampening and Caldari Range bonus. Instead Appia supports Caldari bonus being 4% per level to the efficacy of Precision Enhancers and Gallente having a 3% bonus per level to efficacy of Range Amplifiers

does efficiency mean like precison mods will be giving like 40% at complex on a cal scout??

I added the +15% to the module's base value; that's clearly not what you had in mind.
Oopsy.

And you've found the difference between "to base value" and "to efficacy "

IMO, I really like pairing Caldari bonus to Precision Enhancers to 4% per level and Gallente bonus to Profile Dampeners at 3%

Changed my mind. Please remove dampening bonus from Gallente, give them a bonus to range Amplifiers. Give Caldari 4% bonus per level to Precision Enhancers

---

Why do I support these changes?
Basically, Stealth needs to be an aspect of every Scout suit. If Gallente have an advantage over other suits and a Precision/Dampening balance between Gallente and Caldari create problems for Minmatar and Amarr.

By removing Gallente Scout's bonus to Dampening we can then balance Caldari Precision against the Role instead of a single suit.

To keep Gallente from being the Brick Tank of choice 2 dampeners and a choice between a thrid dampener and a cloak needs to exist (without extensive rework done on the cloak to make it an option and not associate it with dampening. which would need another balance pass on scan/precision). The Minmatar Scout also need this option as too keep the balance between active dampening and speed or active dampening and hacking.

And now I'll ask my Scoutly brothers to come in and fill in the rest of the explanation as I'm exhausted and need to sleep.

I don't know, Appia. That's a serious nerf to CalScouts, and it'd likely eliminate the role of CalScout as "Scout Hunter".

CalScout Scan Precision (Current : Proposed)
40.0 : 40.0 dB - Base
27.0 : 36.0 dB - Base + Max Passives
21.6 : 27.4 dB - Base + Max Passives + cPE(1)
17.9 : 21.6 dB - Base + Max Passives + cPE(2)
15.8 : 18.9 dB - Base + Max Passives + cPE(3)
14.9 : 17.4 dB - Base + Max Passives + cPE(4)

Proposed Scan Profile (All Scouts, Prototype Cloak On : Off)
31.5 : 35.0 dB - Base
28.4 : 31.5 dB - Base + Max Passives
21.2 : 23.6 dB - Base + Max Passives + Complex Damp (1)
16.7 : 18.5 dB - Base + Max Passives + Complex Damp (2)
14.0 : 15.6 dB - Base + Max Passives + Complex Damp (3)
13.3 : 14.7 dB - Base + Max Passives + Complex Damp (4)

---

I presently hunt other Scouts using 3 precision enhancers (16 dB). I'm not much good at killing things, but I'm good at spotting all but the most committed Scouts.

If this new model is adopted, I'll be downgraded to 19 dB. Any Scout with 2 damps and even a basic cloak can sneak right past me. And if I fully sacrifice my ck.0 to run 4 precision enhancers, any Scout running 3 damps will eat my lunch; not to mention every other combatant on the field.

So ... as a CalScout, what will I do?
Will I hunt Scouts poorly or will I tank my fit and watch my back?

How would this change anything, I ask this from the perspective of a Cal-Scout, You know I have a proto Cal-Scout and I've had the scanning mods all at level 5 for all of uprising and the majority of Open Beta. It would be literally the exact same module-to module as before hotfix alpha. Only Gallente would be getting a "nerf" by being brought on to the same scanning level as Amarr and Minmatar.

As as Cal Scout you would run you suit exactly the same way you did 2 weeks ago.

I'll have a sit down and look with CCP Ratatti next week on this. We might not put it into Bravo just to give us more time to get data and since we already have a lot on our plate for that, but we can consider it for a later hotfix.

Here are some numbers

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1nJp1KcwzCLy4WICjpx49jUA46uqKulFvAakmyvxcbJc/edit?usp=sharing

Appia supports and endorses the removal of Gallente Dampening and Caldari Range bonus. Instead Appia supports Caldari bonus being 4% per level to the efficacy of Precision Enhancers and Gallente having a 3% bonus per level to efficacy of Range Amplifiers

IMO, I really like pairing Caldari bonus to Precision Enhancers to 4% per level and Gallente bonus to Profile Dampeners at 3%

Changed my mind. Please remove dampening bonus from Gallente, give them a bonus to range Amplifiers. Give Caldari 4% bonus per level to Precision Enhancers

---

Why do I support these changes?
Basically, Stealth needs to be an aspect of every Scout suit. If Gallente have an advantage over other suits and a Precision/Dampening balance between Gallente and Caldari create problems for Minmatar and Amarr.

By removing Gallente Scout's bonus to Dampening we can then balance Caldari Precision against the Role instead of a single suit.

To keep Gallente from being the Brick Tank of choice 2 dampeners and a choice between a thrid dampener and a cloak needs to exist (without extensive rework done on the cloak to make it an option and not associate it with dampening. which would need another balance pass on scan/precision). The Minmatar Scout also need this option as too keep the balance between active dampening and speed or active dampening and hacking.

And now I'll ask my Scoutly brothers to come in and fill in the rest of the explanation as I'm exhausted and need to sleep.

This is an optimization question and it comes to down to cost / benefit.

At the moment, CalScouts are a valuable asset to a squad because they can offer something others cannot. I am no slayer and I am extremely squishy, but my squadmates are happy to have me along because of the valuable reconnaissance I can share.

What would come of my value-to-squad if my reconnaissance skills were easily substituted?
What would come of my value-to-squad if my reconnaissance skills were easily countered?

My value would be diminished; no question. Optimization dictates that a Logi replace me. He can serve the squad in much greater capacity (i.e. more gear) and at much lower risk (i.e. 3x my HP). He can scan anything that I can scan, and he can do it at less cost to the squad.

When your Field Commander asks "What do you run?" he is really asking an optimization question:
"What can you do better than any other role, such that I may optimize your utility to squad and team?"

I know its wordy response, but I hope it makes sense.

TL;DR: Readily Available Substitutes