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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Appia Nappia
858
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Posted - 2014.06.05 01:08:00 -
[1] - Quote
CCP Logibro wrote:I literally just stood up and said to myself "Why didn't I think of that?!" /facepalm
(Apologies to anyone that actually did suggest it earlier that we may have missed.)
I'll have a chat with CCP Ratatti and we can some numbers. That might actually work better, not to mention it would be closer to the Amarr and Minmatar scouts which also have module/weapon efficacy bonuses as well.
Here are some numbers
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1nJp1KcwzCLy4WICjpx49jUA46uqKulFvAakmyvxcbJc/edit?usp=sharing
Secretly Appia Vibbia
If you can read my signature... I'm on the wrong alt.
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Appia Nappia
879
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Posted - 2014.06.08 18:34:00 -
[2] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:I don't know, Appia. That's a serious nerf to CalScouts, and it'd likely eliminate the role of CalScout as "Scout Hunter".
CalScout Scan Precision (Current : Proposed) 40.0 : 40.0 dB - Base 27.0 : 36.0 dB - Base + Max Passives 21.6 : 27.4 dB - Base + Max Passives + cPE(1) 17.9 : 21.6 dB - Base + Max Passives + cPE(2) 15.8 : 18.9 dB - Base + Max Passives + cPE(3) 14.9 : 17.4 dB - Base + Max Passives + cPE(4)
Proposed Scan Profile (All Scouts, Prototype Cloak On : Off) 31.5 : 35.0 dB - Base 28.4 : 31.5 dB - Base + Max Passives 21.2 : 23.6 dB - Base + Max Passives + Complex Damp (1) 16.7 : 18.5 dB - Base + Max Passives + Complex Damp (2) 14.0 : 15.6 dB - Base + Max Passives + Complex Damp (3) 13.3 : 14.7 dB - Base + Max Passives + Complex Damp (4)
I presently hunt other Scouts using 3 precision enhancers (16 dB). I'm not much good at killing things, but I'm good at spotting all but the most committed Scouts.
If this new model is adopted, I'll be downgraded to 19 dB. Any Scout with 2 damps and even a basic cloak can sneak right past me. And if I fully sacrifice my ck.0 to run 4 precision enhancers, any Scout running 3 damps will eat my lunch; not to mention every other combatant on the field.
So ... as a CalScout, what will I do? Will I hunt Scouts poorly or will I tank my fit and watch my back?
How would this change anything, I ask this from the perspective of a Cal-Scout, You know I have a proto Cal-Scout and I've had the scanning mods all at level 5 for all of uprising and the majority of Open Beta. It would be literally the exact same module-to module as before hotfix alpha. Only Gallente would be getting a "nerf" by being brought on to the same scanning level as Amarr and Minmatar.
As as Cal Scout you would run you suit exactly the same way you did 2 weeks ago.
Secretly Appia Vibbia
If you can read my signature... I'm on the wrong alt.
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Appia Nappia
881
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Posted - 2014.06.08 21:11:00 -
[3] - Quote
CCP Logibro wrote:I'll have a sit down and look with CCP Ratatti next week on this. We might not put it into Bravo just to give us more time to get data and since we already have a lot on our plate for that, but we can consider it for a later hotfix.
Bravo, Charlie, Delta. w/e. You guys got the tables
Secretly Appia Vibbia
If you can read my signature... I'm on the wrong alt.
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Appia Nappia
885
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Posted - 2014.06.08 21:58:00 -
[4] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote: This is an optimization question and it comes to down to cost / benefit.
At the moment, CalScouts are a valuable asset to a squad because they can offer something others cannot. I am no slayer and I am extremely squishy, but my squadmates are happy to have me along because of the valuable reconnaissance I can share.
What would come of my value-to-squad if my reconnaissance skills were easily substituted? What would come of my value-to-squad if my reconnaissance skills were easily countered?
My value would be diminished; no question. Optimization dictates that a Logi replace me. He can serve the squad in much greater capacity (i.e. more gear) and at much lower risk (i.e. 3x my HP). He can scan anything that I can scan, and he can do it at less cost to the squad.
When your Field Commander asks "What do you run?" he is really asking an optimization question: "What can you do better than any other role, such that I may optimize your utility to squad and team?"
I know its wordy response, but I hope it makes sense.
TL;DR: Readily Available Substitutes
Why not just replace you with someone that can run the same suit and have gun game? Seems likes active scanners, with higher precision and shorter duration and longer cool down weren't the right way to go.
Still you have short-range 360-¦ that picks up med frames with no modules. 1 complex range amp and you have just under the area (sq M) of the standard active scanner. I've explained my views of how scanning combats tactics and dampening protects those tactics.
You can get under 20dB precision
If that stupid gal-logi precision bonus didn't exist it would be so very valuable. But I seriously don't understand your concern. 2 damps and a complex cloak is the same as it was before Alpha.
What changed between now and then to Caldari that makes you feel that 1.8 pre-alpha would make you feel useless and easily replaceable?
The numbers are basically the exact same
Secretly Appia Vibbia
If you can read my signature... I'm on the wrong alt.
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Appia Nappia
887
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Posted - 2014.06.08 23:12:00 -
[5] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Floyd20 Azizora wrote:the problem is 3 precision enhancers is needed to catch 1 damped scouts. a scout can hide with little effect, and it takes a cal scout heavily investing to catch lightly damped scouts. @ Appia I assume you're joking, but just in case "I am no slayer" means I've forgone shields extenders and damage amps to run precision enhancers. To answer your question "what really has changed?", the guy above has the right idea. A CalScout will need 3-4 cPEs to detect what he could've previously detected with 2 cPEs. That's a serious nerf for the CalScout. If a CalScout is to be ineffective at hunting 1-2 damped Scouts, then why run a CalScout? If the goal is to recon everyone except Scouts, wouldn't I be better off running on a GalScout?
I'm joking, but not in the way you think. I mean, like, have someone good enough that doesn't need the HP mods to kill most suits. I jokingly meant that that wasn't you. You run for (A) to see people coming to make up for your lack of visual or tactical awareness, (B) you make a singular sacrifice to make one or more individuals to use dampeners and reduce their combat effectiveness.
If you run 4 precision enhancers, which are all of your high slots. And I run 3 dampeners, which are all of my low lots. . . you're still the better scouts because you can put armor, repair mods, codebreakers, range amplifiers, dampeners.
You use scanners to either, (A) protect you and your squad from ambushes and surprise flanking maneuvers and (B) force multiple people to sacrifice utility or survivability just to use basic tactics such as staying out of Line of Sight.
Secretly Appia Vibbia
If you can read my signature... I'm on the wrong alt.
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Appia Nappia
887
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Posted - 2014.06.09 01:52:00 -
[6] - Quote
Your "what if" puts us in the same spot we are in post Alpha - only the basic damp gets you under 1 complex module. Min Scouts aren't the fastest or best hackers because they don't have the option of "3 damps or 2 damps + cloak" with the latter letting them use codebreaker or biotic module
Secretly Appia Vibbia
If you can read my signature... I'm on the wrong alt.
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