DUST Search - E-war should only be influenced by modules

shaman oga wrote:

Atiim wrote:

So basically make e-WAR useless on anything other than an ADV/PRO Scout?

No, base stats of the light frame are enough to make them more suitable to e-war than other suits, but if you don't consider cal and gal bonus, other frames would be able to compete in e-war with scouts that do not fit e-war modules.

But the question for you is, would you bet on a sumo warrior or on a marathoner in a long foot race?
You can train the sumo warrior to be fast and resistant, but the marathoner will still be better.
Cal and gal should have another bonus not related to e-war.

This is the flow chart of how thing should go:
You want to tank your scout?
Yes> then no wallhack for you
No> choose what you want, speed, scan, hack, stamina, range, damps

Obviously gal scout would still be better at dampening than caldari, because its slot layout, but it would be on par with amarr scout.
Caldari will still be better at scan because its slot layout.
Minmatar have the bonus on hack and is more versatile than all the other scouts, always because the slot layout.

Crimson ShieId wrote:

Because there should be no reason to use scouts, right? I suppose while we're at it, we should nerf heavy health as well, make every suit the same, just with different skins, then the players can build them however they want.

My Minja rejects your nerfs from hell and proposes everyone uses dampeners to hide from the Caldari scouts.

Read above and don't be stupid.
BTW your minja can't evade caldari scan even if you use dampeners.

Nova Knives are magic~ -Inserts knife into nearest merc's spinal column- And now, so are you! Bask in the magics!

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shaman oga Nexus Balusa Horizon 2215	Posted - 2014.05.31 15:42:00 - [1] - Quote Disclaimer: I have a gal scout and a gal logi, suit upgrades tree is maxed, except a few a skills that i don't need, i have enough SP to skill another proto suit. (i would like min logi because gal logi bonus suck, don't force me to cal scout) This is my conclusion. The ability to scan/not be scanned is a power that none of the scout should have if not specifically build for E-war purpose. In other games the ability to see enemies through the walls is a cheat, here is legalized by CCP, in the form of the caldari and gallente scouts. PSN: ogamega Never f* with a Galdari.
PARKOUR PRACTIONER The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day 1589	Posted - 2014.05.31 15:55:00 - [2] - Quote Mainly Cal. Cal is build for seeing through walls. For the Gal to have the same, you must max precision. Were as passively no mods Cal can do it anyway. I think with no mods. Not skilling into a wallhack cop suit. Looks cool though. Shayz pointed this out already. Tim too implement CCP. Oh, and how about every mod? Minja HTH mod, Gal damp mod, Cal precision mod, Amarr, regulator mod? Suggestion. PSN Sil4nt Chaozz GalScout since Chrome when few used it, now every F@ggot uses it with a cloak Decent shotgunner
Crimson ShieId Psygod9 477	Posted - 2014.05.31 17:22:00 - [3] - Quote Because there should be no reason to use scouts, right? I suppose while we're at it, we should nerf heavy health as well, make every suit the same, just with different skins, then the players can build them however they want. My Minja rejects your nerfs from hell and proposes everyone uses dampeners to hide from the Caldari scouts. Nova Knives are magic~ -Inserts knife into nearest merc's spinal column- And now, so are you! Bask in the magics!
Atiim Heaven's Lost Property 8987	Posted - 2014.05.31 17:30:00 - [4] - Quote So basically make e-WAR useless on anything other than an ADV/PRO Scout? HvLP Spreadsheet Warrior Why Do Slayers Get All The Credit? :( -HAND
shaman oga Nexus Balusa Horizon 2217	Posted - 2014.05.31 22:33:00 - [5] - Quote Atiim wrote: So basically make e-WAR useless on anything other than an ADV/PRO Scout? No, base stats of the light frame are enough to make them more suitable to e-war than other suits, but if you don't consider cal and gal bonus, other frames would be able to compete in e-war with scouts that do not fit e-war modules. But the question for you is, would you bet on a sumo warrior or on a marathoner in a long foot race? You can train the sumo warrior to be fast and resistant, but the marathoner will still be better. Cal and gal should have another bonus not related to e-war. This is the flow chart of how thing should go: You want to tank your scout? Yes> then no wallhack for you No> choose what you want, speed, scan, hack, stamina, range, damps Obviously gal scout would still be better at dampening than caldari, because its slot layout, but it would be on par with amarr scout. Caldari will still be better at scan because its slot layout. Minmatar have the bonus on hack and is more versatile than all the other scouts, always because the slot layout. Crimson ShieId wrote: Because there should be no reason to use scouts, right? I suppose while we're at it, we should nerf heavy health as well, make every suit the same, just with different skins, then the players can build them however they want. My Minja rejects your nerfs from hell and proposes everyone uses dampeners to hide from the Caldari scouts. Read above and don't be stupid. BTW your minja can't evade caldari scan even if you use dampeners. PSN: ogamega Never f* with a Galdari.
Arcturis Vanguard Red Star. EoN. 117	Posted - 2014.05.31 22:59:00 - [6] - Quote I could be interested in scouts having one ewar related passive bonus and another bonus to complement a designated task a scout regularly performs, problem though is there are only three tiers of ewarfare and 4 races. Maybe two races could double up on a ewar stat but with a different secondary bonus would differentiate "play styles". As of right now, only two races compete in ewar and two are left out. Amarr Heavy_ Amarr Assault_ Caldari Scout
shaman oga Nexus Balusa Horizon 2220	Posted - 2014.06.01 09:38:00 - [7] - Quote Arcturis Vanguard wrote: I could be interested in scouts having one ewar related passive bonus and another bonus to complement a designated task a scout regularly performs, problem though is there are only three tiers of ewarfare and 4 races. Maybe two races could double up on a ewar stat but with a different secondary bonus would differentiate "play styles". As of right now, only two races compete in ewar and two are left out. I believe that e-war is just to powerful to leave it to 2 scout and i would not give bonus related to EW, like i've said above, gal and amarr would be better in dampening, caldari would be better in precision and minnie with its current stats and bonus would be as good as the other scout trading, able to do both but not at the level of other scout (at proto level). I also believ that light frame stats should be toned down a bit, to let a other suit compete in EW. I don't know if a logi can do some EW now, but i believe that an ADV logi should compete with a STD scout in EW, if the logi is highly specced in EW and the scout is not EW tanked. PSN: ogamega Never f* with a Galdari.
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries 10081	Posted - 2014.06.01 09:52:00 - [8] - Quote I see it more as a lack of game mechanics to give minnie and amarr clear and useful roles. The two EWAR scouts counter each other, against any other frame the Amarr and Minmatar are superior in EWAR. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
Velociraptor antirrhopus Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 116	Posted - 2014.06.01 10:06:00 - [9] - Quote i wish we had some sort of like psychological warfare in dust oh wait... that's pretty much what a corporation is GûéGûäGûà /Gûî /Gûî /Gûî Gûî GûêGûêGûàGûâGûé IGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûê] GùÑGèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGùñn++
fragmentedhackslash Last VenDetta. 284	Posted - 2014.06.01 10:57:00 - [10] - Quote shaman oga wrote: Atiim wrote: So basically make e-WAR useless on anything other than an ADV/PRO Scout? Minmatar have the bonus on hack and is more versatile than all the other scouts, always because the slot layout. Try fitting a Minmatar scout with the same teir of modules as the suit and it busts the CPU/PG. Has up to 500 less EHP... oh but we can run fast? Doesnt help when you get shot from anythin up to 200 meters and instantly slow to walking speed. Pain is just weakness leaving your body. Every day is a holiday. Every meal is a feast.

ANON Cerberus Tiny Toons 799	Posted - 2014.06.01 10:59:00 - [11] - Quote The thing is, I am ALL FOR REMOVING ALL WALL HACKS! - Both the passive scans AND the active scanner should go, however CCP would need to give us a spotting mechanic so we ACTUALLY have to have LoS on an enemy target. The only other Idea I think would be somewhat 'balanced' is for the active scanner to be a deployed piece of equipment that is stationary but scans a certain radius like a radar, if you get me?
Velociraptor antirrhopus Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 117	Posted - 2014.06.01 11:04:00 - [12] - Quote fragmentedhackslash wrote: Has up to 500 less EHP... oh but we can run fast? Doesnt help when you get shot from anythin up to 200 meters and instantly slow to walking speed. I don't get this or notice it. You'd think I would notice especially in my medium suit. Happens to me when I cloak sometimes but I just stop moving then sprint again and it goes away. GûéGûäGûà /Gûî /Gûî /Gûî Gûî GûêGûêGûàGûâGûé IGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûê] GùÑGèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGùñn++
fragmentedhackslash Last VenDetta. 288	Posted - 2014.06.01 11:28:00 - [13] - Quote Velociraptor antirrhopus wrote: fragmentedhackslash wrote: Has up to 500 less EHP... oh but we can run fast? Doesnt help when you get shot from anythin up to 200 meters and instantly slow to walking speed. I don't get this or notice it. You'd think I would notice especially in my medium suit. Happens to me when I cloak sometimes but I just stop moving then sprint again and it goes away. Kneel, then run, fixes all hit detection slow motion effects, do this within 60 meters of anything red and you die... Pain is just weakness leaving your body. Every day is a holiday. Every meal is a feast.
shaman oga Nexus Balusa Horizon 2226	Posted - 2014.06.01 18:15:00 - [14] - Quote fragmentedhackslash wrote: shaman oga wrote: Atiim wrote: So basically make e-WAR useless on anything other than an ADV/PRO Scout? Minmatar have the bonus on hack and is more versatile than all the other scouts, always because the slot layout. Try fitting a Minmatar scout with the same teir of modules as the suit and it busts the CPU/PG. Has up to 500 less EHP... oh but we can run fast? Doesnt help when you get shot from anythin up to 200 meters and instantly slow to walking speed. Don't cut quotes, at least don't cut quotes when there is another part that is more important, i'm talking about EW, where only slot layout dictate EW efficiency, not about eHP or if a scout is better than another. PSN: ogamega Never f* with a Galdari.
Gelhad Thremyr Quebec United 306	Posted - 2014.06.01 19:07:00 - [15] - Quote shaman oga wrote: Disclaimer: I have a gal scout and a gal logi, suit upgrades tree is maxed, except a few a skills that i don't need, i have enough SP to skill another proto suit. (i would like min logi because gal logi bonus suck, don't force me to cal scout) This is my conclusion. The ability to scan/not be scanned is a power that none of the scout should have if not specifically build for E-war purpose. (Light frames should still be more suitable to EW than other frames) In other games the ability to see enemies through the walls is a cheat, here is legalized by CCP, in the form of the caldari and gallente scouts. The current problem with the scout is it has no flaws, high armor if you want, cloak, extra equipment slot, i can fit terrible stuff on my galante scout and be hard to kill cause i do hit and run tactics and i heal 450 ehp fast enough that im back within 30 sec. The problem is that cloaks should not be able to be on without an obligatory cool down. And your right the scout should make enourmous sacrifices in his module choices, hopefully the alpha patch will bring balance, my scout is OP my minmatar comando is OP, but next stop will be the galente commando, rifle and plasma, prediction 101 !
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 15277	Posted - 2014.06.01 19:29:00 - [16] - Quote Am I the only one that thinks that scanners should have fall off? Caldari Best mix of range falloff and strength but its average in everything. Gallente Powerful Short Range Scanners but terrible falloff beyond its range. Minmatar Longest Range but early falloff makes them a bit weak at its fringes. Amarr Weak sensor strength overall but suffers less from the fall off over its range. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Gallente Logistics =// Unlocked
Crimson ShieId Psygod9 486	Posted - 2014.06.01 21:58:00 - [17] - Quote shaman oga wrote: Atiim wrote: So basically make e-WAR useless on anything other than an ADV/PRO Scout? No, base stats of the light frame are enough to make them more suitable to e-war than other suits, but if you don't consider cal and gal bonus, other frames would be able to compete in e-war with scouts that do not fit e-war modules. But the question for you is, would you bet on a sumo warrior or on a marathoner in a long foot race? You can train the sumo warrior to be fast and resistant, but the marathoner will still be better. Cal and gal should have another bonus not related to e-war. This is the flow chart of how thing should go: You want to tank your scout? Yes> then no wallhack for you No> choose what you want, speed, scan, hack, stamina, range, damps Obviously gal scout would still be better at dampening than caldari, because its slot layout, but it would be on par with amarr scout. Caldari will still be better at scan because its slot layout. Minmatar have the bonus on hack and is more versatile than all the other scouts, always because the slot layout. Crimson ShieId wrote: Because there should be no reason to use scouts, right? I suppose while we're at it, we should nerf heavy health as well, make every suit the same, just with different skins, then the players can build them however they want. My Minja rejects your nerfs from hell and proposes everyone uses dampeners to hide from the Caldari scouts. Read above and don't be stupid. BTW your minja can't evade caldari scan even if you use dampeners. I did read the above, thus my comment. All scout suits are better at E-Ware than the other types, that's the point. Your comment gave the impression of wanting scouts to have no bonuses period, not simply removing the Gal and Caldari bonuses. Once again, my Minja rejects these. If they lose their bonuses, why not remove all bonuses from all suits? Can't have any suit in the game better than any other suit at anything, right? Why is that Amarr scout so much better at running to an objective than my heavy? And I don't really care all that much. If someone wants to stack two or three precision enhancers to find me, good for them. It means they're actually building their suit as a scout and not just brick tanking it, meaning I have that much less health to deal with when engaging them. Also, you can't "see" people through walls. You can see the blip on the radar, but not the individual. You don't know who's there, what kind of suit they're using, what weapon, etc. For all you know, that blip could be a heavy with 1500eHP who could have five Gallente scouts behind it with shotguns, or it could be a random blueberry, all alone in the world with no knowledge of which button throws grenades and which fires his rifle. Nova Knives are magic~ -Inserts knife into nearest merc's spinal column- And now, so are you! Bask in the magics!
shaman oga Nexus Balusa Horizon 2226	Posted - 2014.06.01 23:00:00 - [18] - Quote @Crimson ShieId The point is that i believe that light frame has already enough EW power with suit stats, their better stats allow them to beat all the other frames in EW and this is right. All the light frame dropsuit are suitable to EW, but two of them are more than suitable, they bring EW to a level that is not reachable by any other suit in the game, define cal and gal scout OP is correct and numbers says i'm right. MIn scout is not OP, min scout is balanced, with your bonus you can hack faster than most of the other suits, but your level is reachable by other suits if they sacrifice their slots and that is the difference. I'm not suggesting to give nothing to cal and gal scout, i'm suggesting to give them something else that is not EW related. I have noticed that most of the time on the minimap redwings are the new suits (likely to be heavies\commandos, 6 out of 8 new suits), you can also see if it's a heavy by watching his speed. PSN: ogamega Never f* with a Galdari.
Ryme Intrinseca The Rainbow Effect 1277	Posted - 2014.06.02 10:50:00 - [19] - Quote shaman oga wrote: Disclaimer: I have a gal scout and a gal logi, suit upgrades tree is maxed, except a few a skills that i don't need, i have enough SP to skill another proto suit. (i would like min logi because gal logi bonus suck, don't force me to cal scout) This is my conclusion. The ability to scan/not be scanned is a power that none of the scout should have if not specifically build for E-war purpose. (Light frames should still be more suitable to EW than other frames) In other games the ability to see enemies through the walls is a cheat, here is legalized by CCP, in the form of the caldari and gallente scouts. Interesting that you want the scouts nerfed because it's too easy for them to ewar, when you have a gal logi... you know, the suit that can scan anything (on the new build) while having 1000+HP.
shaman oga Nexus Balusa Horizon 2226	Posted - 2014.06.02 11:27:00 - [20] - Quote Ryme Intrinseca wrote: Interesting that you want the scouts nerfed because it's too easy for them to ewar, when you have a gal logi... you know, the suit that can scan anything (on the new build) while having 1000+HP. I have also a gal scout and it's far more effective than a gal logi in scanning sorroundings. WIth 2 precision mod i scan better than a proto scanner inside 40 meters and i do this permanently, i have 2 equipment slot free for what i want and all the low slot free. To scan for a decent amount of time with a gal logi i have to use 3 scanners and to scan everything is have to use focused version. That kills the purpose of a logi, i've always been against bonus on equipments, the number of logi left in the game is dropped, vast majority of the players are scout, heavy or pilots because their class work and it's fun to play, bonus on equip has locked the class of logistics. To use your logi you are forced to use more than 1 equip you have your bonus, the only exception is min logi. BTW, i don't like to tank, i don't tank scouts, i don't tank to a extreme level my gal logi too. PSN: ogamega Never f* with a Galdari.



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