Should not take multiple players to down one vehicle.

ISK is not a balancing factor. Although it is odd that my ADS is more expensive than most tanks.

Yes, only increasing swarm missile's speed is a terrible idea.

You think shields recharge too fast? If anything, passive armor reps repair too fast.

Should not take multiple players to down one vehicle.

Why would you ever take one, then?

No, swarms are the AV half of the problem, cost is the ADS side of the problem. Buff Swarms, lower ADS costs.

I ran a starter AV fit today with my swarms to Level 4. Some red ditched his dropship and it fell in front of me next to a supply depot. It had no shield but most of its armor.and is like 50 meters away. I lock on and fire as fast as I can. I get nowhere, I shoot 10 volleys at it and I'm standing right beside the depot but I'm losing ground. A tank comes along and kills with two shots in two seconds before this experiment was finished. This is not a case of bad tactics and or user error, The dropship was winning the fight even with no pilot and me in the best possible circumstances. This is plain broken.

Don't tell me you run vehicles because you want an unfair "I win" button by requiring 2 or more people in order to take you down.

I paid 500 000 ISK for it. It better take more than 10 000 ISK in gear to take it down unless I'm being an idiot.

Let's do the math here, a proper fitted AV suit costs around maybe 200k isk (sometimes less), my ADS costs 500k. I can't back a damage buff to swarms as doing that will basically let every Tom, **** and Harry who threw 621,840k SP into swarms take me down and I'll have no countermeasures. which basically means that a suit that costs half as much as my ADS will easily take me down. Swarms don't need a buff because taking out a tank or ADS, when properly fitted, and having a competent pilot, should be a team effort.

My proposal is to increase the recharge delay of shields, or the recharge rate of afterburners. 10 seconds on the afterburners is more than enough time for me to dip in, grab a few kills, fly off into the sunset with my baby Laira (Laira being my ADS), then recharge shields and go in for another swoop. Then rinse and repeat. Be careful not to nerf them too hard, however, as you pretty much kill the ADS community by doing that. My numbers are below, just spitballing here.

My issue is that people think either the vehicle dies or the infantry dies in AV vs V battles. Why can't it be a stand off? I run into plenty of Inf vs Inf fire fights where I just don't think I'm winning or we both have good skills and cover and one of us has to take a risk to win. When no one takes that risk I just get away and find another fight.

You have the wrong mentality. As far as I am concerned you properly AV'd that drop ship. It no longer was a threat so you should have just moved on.

So you believe in pay to win regardless of skill or fairness? Pay to win as a game mechanic has never been popular to my knowledge. This is the first time I'm hearing it where its endorsed.

I paid 500 000 ISK for it. It better take more than 10 000 ISK in gear to take it down unless I'm being an idiot.

Before the AV community ruins something by constantly moaning about it, I may as well step in and give my 2 isk.

I'm in this case trying to meet the AV community halfway in this, I understand that ADS are a little pumped up, but not so much that something called teamwork and properly specing into swarms won't fix.

My personal opinion is that swarms don't need a buff, I've been taken out with dual set of proto swarms before.

Let's do the math here, a proper fitted AV suit costs around maybe 200k isk (sometimes less), my ADS costs 500k. I can't back a damage buff to swarms as doing that will basically let every Tom, **** and Harry who threw 621,840k SP into swarms take me down and I'll have no countermeasures. which basically means that a suit that costs half as much as my ADS will easily take me down. Swarms don't need a buff because taking out a tank or ADS, when properly fitted, and having a competent pilot, should be a team effort.

I can also not support a speed increase to swarms, and here is why. The only effective countermeasure we have against swarms and forge is our afterburners.

Now to where I meet the middle ground and may get some flame from the vehicles.

The main issue isn't the speed of the ADS, seeing as that is our only effective countermeasure against avoiding the AV users. The main issue is the recharge rate of shields and afterburners. I've been flying for quite a while now, ever since the start of dust, in fact.

My proposal is to increase the recharge delay of shields, or the recharge rate of afterburners. 10 seconds on the afterburners is more than enough time for me to dip in, grab a few kills, fly off into the sunset with my baby Laira (Laira being my ADS), then recharge shields and go in for another swoop. Then rinse and repeat. Be careful not to nerf them too hard, however, as you pretty much kill the ADS community by doing that. My numbers are below, just spitballing here.


Afterburners recharge= 25seconds raw (without the buff)

recharge delay= can't honestly put forth a good number, as Pythons live off this.

One of the worst ideas on the forums... Increasing recharge delay... Are you freking crazy? Put a delay on armor reps is what needs to happan. Anyways, swarms should be sh*t toward dropships because the skill in bringing down the dropship is getting the accuracy and swarms are dumb fire. Swarms should be especailly sh*t toward shield vehicles but it seems that shield vehicles are easier to kill with swarms than Armor.

I would have hacked it and try flying it myself if that had been my purpose. I was running this character which only plays in starter suits and free stuff CCP gives me. I saw the dropship so switched to the starter AV suit since I was at the depot, just to see what would happen. Whether it was smart AV playing is not relevant, what is relevant is that I could not destroy the dropship with a militia SL. It wasn't that it was difficult or that I needed a change in strategy, with 10 volleys it was winning. A pilot could safely ignore me the entire game.