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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 19 post(s) |
Cyrius Li-Moody
0uter.Heaven
5462
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Posted - 2014.05.23 07:03:00 -
[1] - Quote
Crunching some numbers.
Youtuber. Your friendly neighborhood whiskey-fueled merc.
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Cyrius Li-Moody
0uter.Heaven
5462
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Posted - 2014.05.23 07:29:00 -
[2] - Quote
Zatara Rought wrote:Cyrius Li-Moody wrote:Alright here's some preliminary findings on the things I actually care about:
-Only the Amarr and Gallente will be able to beat a gallente focus scanner.
-Caldari and Minmatar will never beat a gallente focus scanner.
-In turn Cal and Min will never beat a Caldari scout.
long story short: Sucks to be a Minmatar scout even more than currently. Can I get a respec on my Minmatar scout? Not kidding about this. have you checked if they can beat a 3 precision cal scout?
-Minmatar will only beat a Caldari with 3 precisions if they have 3 damps and a proto cloak active.
-Caldari will never beat another caldari with 2 precision.
-Minmatar will never beat a 4 precision Cal scout.
Gallente will only require 2 damps to beat EVERYTHING. Period dot end of story. Gallente master scout.
Youtuber. Your friendly neighborhood whiskey-fueled merc.
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Cyrius Li-Moody
0uter.Heaven
5462
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Posted - 2014.05.23 08:07:00 -
[3] - Quote
Lowest Dampening possible
Caldari - 18.49 db w/ 2 complex damps (17.56 db while proto cloak active)
Minmatar - 15.85 db w/ 3 complex damps (15.05 db while proto cloak active)
Amarr - 14.73 db w/ 4 complex damps
Gallente -13.87 db w/ 2 complex damps
For reference-
Gal Logi can run 4 Focused Scanners that scan at 15db for 5 seconds each.
Caldari Precision
-17.85 db w/ 2 complex precision
-15.81 db w/ 3 complex precision
-14.91 db w/ 4 complex precision
Youtuber. Your friendly neighborhood whiskey-fueled merc.
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Cyrius Li-Moody
0uter.Heaven
5477
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Posted - 2014.05.23 15:00:00 -
[4] - Quote
Spartan MK420 wrote:Meh, not wasting anymore of my time here.
This game is just becoming worse, and worse, with no light at the end of the tunnel for any role.
You balance 1 mechanic, by breaking 3. Not very productive. But good job security I suppose.
Seriously. I make multiple posts showing how terrible these cloak changes are for all but the Gallente scout and I don't even get a word in response?
It's like nobody ran scout prior to 1.8. It's like nobody remembers how terrible it is to get scanned constantly. The tacnet system is the most OP mechanic in this game and you're making the stealth class in this game not stealthy at all. Do you guys even acknowledge the fact that the tacnet is ridiculously OP? Why even have a scout class if it can be countered by 1 person?
I legitimately want a respec if these changes go through and I hope i can get one because I will no longer be able to fulfill my role on the battlefield in my Minmatar scout. Even now it's hard to be a minmatar scout. It's clear they're balancing everything around casual and pub play and aren't going to address the problems when people are coordinated and have half a brain to make the correct fit to counter 3/4 scouts.
Youtuber. Your friendly neighborhood whiskey-fueled merc.
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Cyrius Li-Moody
0uter.Heaven
5479
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Posted - 2014.05.23 15:13:00 -
[5] - Quote
Appia Vibbia wrote:Cyrius Li-Moody wrote:Spartan MK420 wrote:Meh, not wasting anymore of my time here.
This game is just becoming worse, and worse, with no light at the end of the tunnel for any role.
You balance 1 mechanic, by breaking 3. Not very productive. But good job security I suppose.
Seriously. I make multiple posts showing how terrible these cloak changes are for all but the Gallente scout and I don't even get a word in response? It's like nobody ran scout prior to 1.8. It's like nobody remembers how terrible it is to get scanned constantly. The tacnet system is the most OP mechanic in this game and you're making the stealth class in this game not stealthy at all. Do you guys even acknowledge the fact that the tacnet is ridiculously OP? Why even have a scout class if it can be countered by 1 person? I legitimately want a respec if these changes go through and I hope i can get one because I will no longer be able to fulfill my role on the battlefield in my Minmatar scout. Even now it's hard to be a minmatar scout. It's clear they're balancing everything around casual and pub play and aren't going to address the problems when people are coordinated and have half a brain to make the correct fit to counter 3/4 scouts. Exactly. I've been pushing for more people to play Minmatar Scout because they can dedicate a way to get under scans. That's completely gone now. I just had this conversation with Ghost Kaiser, to salvage the suit to be useful when you know you're going to get scanned relegates you to hit and run or flanking. . . which the Minmatar Assault will do better. I've got 3 proto scout suits and one at level 1. These changes are going to force me into only use the Gallente Scout. Congrats you've changed the meta from 608 HP Gal Scouts to 459 HP Gal Scouts. Removed Amarr and Minmatar Scouts from play.
Seriously, it wasn't that bad when I had to run 2 damps because then I could use my third for a code breaker or a kin cat. Now, it's just not possible so guess whats going in those slots? Plates. Lots and lots of plates.
"We're fixing EHP tanking by forcing scouts to forgo their stealth for EHP."
Youtuber. Your friendly neighborhood whiskey-fueled merc.
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Cyrius Li-Moody
0uter.Heaven
5480
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Posted - 2014.05.23 15:29:00 -
[6] - Quote
Appia Vibbia wrote:CCP Rattati wrote: Just to force players to make a choice between being completely unscannable or scannable and invisible.
Expect drastic reduction in number of cloak users. You were easily seen when moving, we all knew this, it was a tool for camping. Since it was pointed out that the cloak gave a reduction to profile I was telling people that, "the invisibility didn't have one percent of the reason it's going to be used, it's going to be used as an active-dampener."
Correct the cloak, against skilled players, is only good for it's "wave of opportunities" of tacnet stealth because you are by no means invisible nor even close to being invisible. Why no one understands this I have no idea.
Youtuber. Your friendly neighborhood whiskey-fueled merc.
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Cyrius Li-Moody
0uter.Heaven
5482
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Posted - 2014.05.23 16:04:00 -
[7] - Quote
Nothing Certain wrote:Appia Vibbia wrote:Cyrius Li-Moody wrote:
It's like nobody ran scout prior to 1.8. It's like nobody remembers how terrible it is to get scanned constantly. The tacnet system is the most OP mechanic in this game and you're making the stealth class in this game not stealthy at all. Do you guys even acknowledge the fact that the tacnet is ridiculously OP? Why even have a scout class if it can be countered by 1 person?
Just to hone in on this point, I think Zatara Rought made the best case example of why non-scouts (people that never ran scout before 1.8 buff was confirmed) get pissy if they don't have their unbeatable scanners. The problem isn't that scouts can now beat scanners. The problem is with the cloak scouts can now beat scanners and be invisible, this is OP, and is why scouts are prevalent. The solution should have been to make everyone have to choose which they want, to be invisible or to be unscannable, you couldnt be both at once. The problem now, as your posts demonstrate, is that Galscouts can still be both but no one else can. Keeping things as they are was not a solution but the changes just made one scout OP instead of the whole class. This is why I thought there should be a dampening penalty to the cloak, so no one, not even Galscouts can have both. Scouts will still run cloak, scouts will still run dampeners but armor tanking stays a problem, hence the greater movement penalties.
You do know that it's pointless being cloaked if there's a chevron over your head right?
Youtuber. Your friendly neighborhood whiskey-fueled merc.
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Cyrius Li-Moody
0uter.Heaven
5485
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Posted - 2014.05.23 16:19:00 -
[8] - Quote
poison Diego wrote:Zatara Rought wrote:Cyrius Li-Moody wrote:Alright here's some preliminary findings on the things I actually care about:
-Only the Amarr and Gallente will be able to beat a gallente focus scanner.
-Caldari and Minmatar will never beat a gallente focus scanner.
-In turn Cal and Min will never beat a Caldari scout.
long story short: Sucks to be a Minmatar scout even more than currently. Can I get a respec on my Minmatar scout? Not kidding about this. have you checked if they can beat a 3 precision cal scout? yes 3 dampners can barely beat it but it has to be a proto min scout..
with a proto cloak. 4 proto modules/slots required.
Youtuber. Your friendly neighborhood whiskey-fueled merc.
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Cyrius Li-Moody
0uter.Heaven
5485
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Posted - 2014.05.23 16:32:00 -
[9] - Quote
Tectonic Fusion wrote:Cyrius Li-Moody wrote:
-In turn Cal will never beat a Caldari scout.
Correction, Caldari Scout = Caldari Scout, but ScR CalScout > CR CalScout.
Until they realize that putting dampeners in their lows is pointless and put plates there so they have 300 armor ontop of 300 shields.
Youtuber. Your friendly neighborhood whiskey-fueled merc.
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Cyrius Li-Moody
0uter.Heaven
5492
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Posted - 2014.05.23 17:20:00 -
[10] - Quote
Stefan Stahl wrote:Cyrius Li-Moody wrote:Dampening and cloaking go hand in hand because if you are scanned while you are cloaked PEOPLE CAN STILL SEE YOU. This completely negates the point of the cloak. Then fit a dampener. Problem fixed. Oh, one less armor plate for you? Too bad.  No offense intended. The point I'm making is that being both invisible to scanners and hard to see should take two modules. One equipment and one low slot. We're basically just increasing the fitting requirements for full stealth mode. As it stands it's just too easy to have a 4 module tank and let your second equipment slot do all the stealth-work. This will be reduced to a 3 module tank, a dampener and a cloak. If you think cloaking worthless after the change you may also fit a dampener and ignore the cloak. Valid playstyle. I used to play like that until 1.8 was released. One could argue that there should maybe be an active equipment item that let's you be profile dampened temporarily. But that should be something for the midterm future.
You must be trolling right? I DO NOT RUN ARMOR because I know the mechanics of this game. I always run damps. I have less than 400hp at all times. Jesus christ people. Not everyone runs armor. Some people run the roles how they should.
Seriously, stop making assumptions and pay attention to the math. You're not increasing the fitting requirements you're destroying E-war. Seriously, go back through my posts and look at the math. This nerf destroys the scout class at high level play. Don't be a fool.
Go play a PC match and get stomped over and over again and get back to me about your single damp. Then after this patch, go play another pc and get stomped over and over again with your 3 damps IF you have enough slots for them. Seriously, you people are so shortsighted it's amazing.
Youtuber. Your friendly neighborhood whiskey-fueled merc.
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Cyrius Li-Moody
0uter.Heaven
5492
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Posted - 2014.05.23 17:24:00 -
[11] - Quote
Stefan Stahl wrote:Cyrius Li-Moody wrote:You must be trolling right? I DO NOT RUN ARMOR because I know the mechanics of this game. I always run damps. I have less than 400hp at all times. Jesus christ people. Not everyone runs armor. Some people run the roles how they should.
Seriously, stop making assumptions and pay attention to the math. Are you fitting 4 damps? If yes, nothing changes! Are you not running 4 damps? Then add one to offset the nerf. Congratulations - hotfix alpha fixed for you.
So what you're saying is the Amarr and Gallente should be the only viable scouts? You don't understand what balance is do you?
Youtuber. Your friendly neighborhood whiskey-fueled merc.
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Cyrius Li-Moody
0uter.Heaven
5492
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Posted - 2014.05.23 17:34:00 -
[12] - Quote
Stefan Stahl wrote:Would you be equally upset if every scout suit had one low slot removed instead of the change to cloaks? Can you imagine there being balance between scout profiles, active scanners and CalScouts after that hypothetical change? That's where I'm looking.
It's like you're just randomly choosing stuff to nerf.
Quote:Edit:
I already said that I'm not much interested in the balancing of PC matches because it doesn't affect most of the players. So keep that in mind.
Shortsighted. PC is WHERE things should be balanced because people use teamwork. Nothing should ever be balanced around general laziness and people refusing to use teamwork in a team based game. Seriously, you have no idea what balance is do you?
Youtuber. Your friendly neighborhood whiskey-fueled merc.
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Cyrius Li-Moody
0uter.Heaven
5497
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Posted - 2014.05.23 17:53:00 -
[13] - Quote
THUNDERGROOVE wrote:When will people learn to not argue with Moody?
Seriously. This guy will prove you wrong over and over again.
I can go 40-2 in a pub with a level 3 Amarr assault and a viziam. If I ask to run that in a PC I'll be told to run my scout suit with a Six Kin instead.
The Amarr assault might be good in pubs but like most assaults it's lacking in a competitive environment.
It's not even about being right. It's about whats good for the game. Every suit, every role, every weapon needs to be useful at high level play. This means a proper system of rock paper scissors. That is well thought out and not done randomly without thought.
If they nerf paper so it can't beat rock then everyone's just going to bring rock. Whats the point in that?
Your example of the Amarr assault is a perfect example.
Youtuber. Your friendly neighborhood whiskey-fueled merc.
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