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Roran Theron
Bragian Order Amarr Empire
26
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Posted - 2014.05.20 07:13:00 -
[1] - Quote
So when I heard about Legion and the PvE ability with the drones; my first thought was of my Eve experiences and abilities within Eve.
First let me get this straight - We'll be able to fight NPC drones on surfaces (or maybe in structures located throughout New Eden's vast space) and loot them for stuff we need to fit our characters, either alongside or against other players, creating an actual player-ran market with a supply/demand structure.
Now what about the other side, industry? Obviously with a FPS game, industry isn't a real hot topic. It's a spread sheet Eve type thing. But with the ability to scavenge parts from drones and acquire modules needed through that method, couldn't we also salvage and use skills to create modules, and possibly even a 'rig' idea, just like in Eve? It opens up the door to new possibilities - Reprocess old modules and stuff you've acquired and through drones and use industrial skills/methods to create other modules for a better profit, or to your advantage. |
Regis Blackbird
DUST University Ivy League
233
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Posted - 2014.05.20 12:58:00 -
[2] - Quote
+1 I also would like some industry aspect in Legion, but I think it can be done as a second step after the initial economy is running. I think it should be connected to Planetary Conquest in some form. |
steadyhand amarr
shadows of 514
3086
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Posted - 2014.05.20 13:37:00 -
[3] - Quote
I disagree i feel legion should stay focused on shooter and being a merc, industry and control belongs in EvE space.
I have no problem if us shooting people in face helps the industry process. but first and foremost ecerything un legion must be their to help us to shoot people in face not detract from it.
"i dont care about you or your goals, just show me the dam isk"
winner of EU squad cup
GOGO power rangers
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Godin Thekiller
shadows of 514
2356
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Posted - 2014.05.20 14:28:00 -
[4] - Quote
steadyhand amarr wrote:I disagree i feel legion should stay focused on shooter and being a merc, industry and control belongs in EvE space.
I have no problem if us shooting people in face helps the industry process. but first and foremost ecerything un legion must be their to help us to shoot people in face not detract from it.
Nothing saying that we can't have our cake and eat it too
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Godin Thekiller
shadows of 514
2356
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Posted - 2014.05.20 14:30:00 -
[5] - Quote
Why just rogue drones? **** that! I want to fight against Serpintis, or Caldari soldiers!
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steadyhand amarr
shadows of 514
3086
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Posted - 2014.05.20 15:42:00 -
[6] - Quote
Godin Thekiller wrote:steadyhand amarr wrote:I disagree i feel legion should stay focused on shooter and being a merc, industry and control belongs in EvE space.
I have no problem if us shooting people in face helps the industry process. but first and foremost ecerything un legion must be their to help us to shoot people in face not detract from it. Nothing saying that we can't have our cake and eat it too
As i said i have no issues if the industry section of legion involves shooting some guy in face and blowing up his factory. Its having to spend a few hours staring at screens sorting out a supply chain keep that stuff in EvE
But i do like the idea of a legion merc buying a factory which he can rent to EvE dudes and he spends the rest of the afternoon defending it. Its sutle but important difference :-)
"i dont care about you or your goals, just show me the dam isk"
winner of EU squad cup
GOGO power rangers
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Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
8664
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Posted - 2014.05.20 16:42:00 -
[7] - Quote
steadyhand amarr wrote:Godin Thekiller wrote:steadyhand amarr wrote:I disagree i feel legion should stay focused on shooter and being a merc, industry and control belongs in EvE space.
I have no problem if us shooting people in face helps the industry process. but first and foremost ecerything un legion must be their to help us to shoot people in face not detract from it. Nothing saying that we can't have our cake and eat it too As i said i have no issues if the industry section of legion involves shooting some guy in face and blowing up his factory. Its having to spend a few hours staring at screens sorting out a supply chain keep that stuff in EvE But i do like the idea of a legion merc buying a factory which he can rent to EvE dudes and he spends the rest of the afternoon defending it. Its sutle but important difference :-)
I actually welcome seeing industry in a FPS game. Hell that's what a lot of the Dust players, most of which are mainly console players, wanted to see because it was the one thing that can make Dust stand out from the crowd besides the secondary market and emergent game play. Since that's not likely anymore for Dust, we'll just have to wait for it to come to Legion. Industry and the secondary market definitely attract a lot of FPS players who are looking for something different. You know, a shooter that isn't just a typical shooter and offers something NO OTHER FPS developer has ever thought of. FPS players are like that. They look for the game that stands out the most.
On the topic of industry, CCP already hinted in Fanfest 2013 (back when Dust was in full swing) that players on the ground will one day be able to handle the resource-harvesting aspect while players in space (Eve) will handle the production side of things and then sell their manufactured goods to the planets to get destroyed in battle and the cycle repeats.
It just makes sense that Eve players handle production due to the 11-year experience that Eve players have with industry in general. They have already established efficient production chains and well-maintained logistics for maximum bulk and profit.
There was once this fear that this will just allow Eve players to extort the ground players by jacking up the prices of items we need, but that fear proved baseless as people realized that market pvp in Eve alone will ensure that prices will be kept under control. If you try to sell me 1,000 units of Ishukone Nova Knives for 20,000 ISK/unit, then I can assure you that someone else in the same region as you will definitely sell me 1,000 units of the same thing for 19,999 ISK/unit. Then you will try to counter that by lowering your price to 19,998 ISK/unit and then he counters until eventually both of you are selling at 2,000 ISK/unit. Welcome to New Eden.
On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
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Godin Thekiller
shadows of 514
2356
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Posted - 2014.05.20 16:46:00 -
[8] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:steadyhand amarr wrote:Godin Thekiller wrote:steadyhand amarr wrote:I disagree i feel legion should stay focused on shooter and being a merc, industry and control belongs in EvE space.
I have no problem if us shooting people in face helps the industry process. but first and foremost ecerything un legion must be their to help us to shoot people in face not detract from it. Nothing saying that we can't have our cake and eat it too As i said i have no issues if the industry section of legion involves shooting some guy in face and blowing up his factory. Its having to spend a few hours staring at screens sorting out a supply chain keep that stuff in EvE But i do like the idea of a legion merc buying a factory which he can rent to EvE dudes and he spends the rest of the afternoon defending it. Its sutle but important difference :-) I actually welcome seeing industry in a FPS game. Hell that's what a lot of the Dust players, most of which are mainly console players, wanted to see because it was the one thing that can make Dust stand out from the crowd besides the secondary market and emergent game play. Since that's not likely anymore for Dust, we'll just have to wait for it to come to Legion. Industry and the secondary market definitely attract a lot of FPS players who are looking for something different. You know, a shooter that isn't just a typical shooter and offers something NO OTHER FPS developer has ever thought of. FPS players are like that. They look for the game that stands out the most. On the topic of industry, CCP already hinted in Fanfest 2013 (back when Dust was in full swing) that players on the ground will one day be able to handle the resource-harvesting aspect while players in space (Eve) will handle the production side of things and then sell their manufactured goods to the planets to get destroyed in battle and the cycle repeats. It just makes sense that Eve players handle production due to the 11-year experience that Eve players have with industry in general. They have already established efficient production chains and well-maintained logistics for maximum bulk and profit. There was once this fear that this will just allow Eve players to extort the ground players by jacking up the prices of items we need, but that fear proved baseless as people realized that market pvp in Eve alone will ensure that prices will be kept under control. If you try to sell me 1,000 units of Ishukone Nova Knives for 20,000 ISK/unit, then I can assure you that someone else in the same region as you will definitely sell me 1,000 units of the same thing for 19,999 ISK/unit. Then you will try to counter that by lowering your price to 19,998 ISK/unit and then he counters until eventually both of you are selling at 2,000 ISK/unit. Welcome to New Eden.
This
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steadyhand amarr
shadows of 514
3092
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Posted - 2014.05.20 16:55:00 -
[9] - Quote
But if u want that why not play EvE and when u want to shoot somthinh play legion. Scope creep kills a lot of games. EvE is awsome at being EvE as a result legion should be awsome at being legion they should not try and copy each other insteady they should complement each other.
We should fullfill the role of being an EvE dudes mussle.
I respect your idea though but we want Legion to be diffrent things and im basing my viewpoint of widershooter fans. Who never grace internet fourms
The problem being dust is full of EvE fans who want a ground game to support their cap. But i understand im likely going to be outvoted here
"i dont care about you or your goals, just show me the dam isk"
winner of EU squad cup
GOGO power rangers
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Godin Thekiller
shadows of 514
2356
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Posted - 2014.05.20 17:11:00 -
[10] - Quote
steadyhand amarr wrote:But if u want that why not play EvE and when u want to shoot somthinh play legion. Scope creep kills a lot of games. EvE is awsome at being EvE as a result legion should be awsome at being legion they should not try and copy each other insteady they should complement each other.
We should fullfill the role of being an EvE dudes mussle.
I respect your idea though but we want Legion to be diffrent things and im basing my viewpoint of widershooter fans. Who never grace internet fourms
The problem being dust is full of EvE fans who want a ground game to support their cap. But i understand im likely going to be outvoted here
1: Not everyone can afford EVE (Kinda the reason why they made Dust.Legion in the first place)
2: They plan on letting us bind all our characters into one, so in a sense, we are Caps (according to lore, this is currently possible; they just have to code it in).
3: We are all immortals; Mercs are just as good as Caps. Mercs are definitely not Caps slaves.
I See what you're saying though. Legion shouldn't be a straight copy of EVE. However, core things like that needs to come to Legion.
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steadyhand amarr
shadows of 514
3095
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Posted - 2014.05.20 17:57:00 -
[11] - Quote
Im not agesnt industry as long as taking part in it involves me shooting someone or planning to shoot someone or it helps me shoot someone, without it being a must to be competive
"i dont care about you or your goals, just show me the dam isk"
winner of EU squad cup
GOGO power rangers
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Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
8665
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 18:26:00 -
[12] - Quote
steadyhand amarr wrote:But if u want that why not play EvE and when u want to shoot somthinh play legion. Scope creep kills a lot of games. EvE is awsome at being EvE as a result legion should be awsome at being legion they should not try and copy each other insteady they should complement each other.
As Godin pointed out, not everyone can afford Eve. If Legion remains as a F2P game, then PLEX will be the likely window to getting an Eve subscription if PLEX is ever allowed to be bought and sold in Legion. But that's an entirely different topic altogether.
In regards to your fear of scope creeping, that is not something anyone should be concerned with. This is something that is meant to be unified later on as CCP promised with the Eve United concept they brought up during Fanfest 2014. The idea of three games (MMO, space combat sim, and FPS) closely woven together in a seemingly complex universe like New Eden is not something to be afraid of at all especially if this is the one thing that will likely attract more people because it is so unique.
Also, if I wanted to shoot something in a game that's just like any other game, I wouldn't play Legion at all. I would play Halo 3 & 4 and maybe Hawken. But if I wanted to shoot something in a game that makes me feel like I'm making serious impact on the universe at large while diving into the complexities of it, then I will definitely pick Legion to play. Notice how I'm happy about this.
Quote: We should fullfill the role of being an EvE dudes mussle.
And that you can do. You'll just have more options in case you ever get bored of doing one thing.
Quote: I respect your idea though but we want Legion to be diffrent things and im basing my viewpoint of widershooter fans. Who never grace internet fourms
Thank you for respect my opinion. I understand that you still want to make an impact on the Eve side of industry by shooting someone in the face on the Legion side by maybe conquering harvesting facilities that Legion/Eve players control. And that's a good first step to all this. Keep in mind that seeing a full-blown industry in Legion is something that is not likely to happen for the next 5-7 years. So right now, your suggestion and mine are both baby steps in that direction.
Quote: The problem being dust is full of EvE fans who want a ground game to support their cap. But i understand im likely going to be outvoted here
That's no longer the case for Dust. At this point, Dust will be mainly console players who don't own a PC gaming platform. Legion however...
On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
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steadyhand amarr
shadows of 514
3095
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Posted - 2014.05.20 18:33:00 -
[13] - Quote
You raise valid points i cant counter :-P i simple ask for a clear difined purpose then
"i dont care about you or your goals, just show me the dam isk"
winner of EU squad cup
GOGO power rangers
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
2054
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 19:02:00 -
[14] - Quote
steadyhand amarr wrote:You raise valid points i cant counter :-P i simple ask for a clear difined purpose then
Items in Legion has to be produced somewhere, not just poofed into existence by an NPC.
That being said, do you want to be able to make your own stuff for cheaper? Or be subject to the whims and profit margins on EVE players? The second option is certainly fine for those who don't mind paying a little more, but for those of us who like to save money, having a means to make our own is very appealing.
Like my ideas?
Pokey Dravon for CPM1
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Beren Hurin
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
2367
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 19:22:00 -
[15] - Quote
I would hope that there is skilled gameplay behind salvaging. Maybe something like not overkilling drones would result in them dropping better stuff. Or dropping them by getting a final-shot against a weak spot would help them not self-destruct.
Perhaps you'd have to lock on to them with kinds of 'salvage tools' taking a gun off the field, and exposing the salvager to other fire. Or you could deploy a kind of AoE salvage deployable and gathing your drone plasma 'ghost busters' style.
This last idea would create an interesting and important career path and open up interesting gameplay options for everyone. |
Godin Thekiller
shadows of 514
2358
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Posted - 2014.05.20 19:55:00 -
[16] - Quote
Beren Hurin wrote:I would hope that there is skilled gameplay behind salvaging. Maybe something like not overkilling drones would result in them dropping better stuff. Or dropping them by getting a final-shot against a weak spot would help them not self-destruct.
Perhaps you'd have to lock on to them with kinds of 'salvage tools' taking a gun off the field, and exposing the salvager to other fire. Or you could deploy a kind of AoE salvage deployable and gathing your drone plasma 'ghost busters' style.
This last idea would create an interesting and important career path and open up interesting gameplay options for everyone.
What''s with people's obsession with rogue drones?
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Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
8669
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 19:56:00 -
[17] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:steadyhand amarr wrote:You raise valid points i cant counter :-P i simple ask for a clear difined purpose then Items in Legion has to be produced somewhere, not just poofed into existence by an NPC. That being said, do you want to be able to make your own stuff for cheaper? Or be subject to the whims and profit margins on EVE players? The second option is certainly fine for those who don't mind paying a little more, but for those of us who like to save money, having a means to make our own is very appealing.
That would be very appealing. But remember, baby steps.
On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
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Godin Thekiller
shadows of 514
2358
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 20:02:00 -
[18] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:steadyhand amarr wrote:You raise valid points i cant counter :-P i simple ask for a clear difined purpose then Items in Legion has to be produced somewhere, not just poofed into existence by an NPC. That being said, do you want to be able to make your own stuff for cheaper? Or be subject to the whims and profit margins on EVE players? The second option is certainly fine for those who don't mind paying a little more, but for those of us who like to save money, having a means to make our own is very appealing. That would be very appealing. But remember, baby steps.
All they need to do is code it in, as well as have for us a way to get our materials (remember, our materials is different from theirs, from the structure right to the armor).
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
2057
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 20:59:00 -
[19] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:steadyhand amarr wrote:You raise valid points i cant counter :-P i simple ask for a clear difined purpose then Items in Legion has to be produced somewhere, not just poofed into existence by an NPC. That being said, do you want to be able to make your own stuff for cheaper? Or be subject to the whims and profit margins on EVE players? The second option is certainly fine for those who don't mind paying a little more, but for those of us who like to save money, having a means to make our own is very appealing. That would be very appealing. But remember, baby steps.
I understand that, but you dont want to hit a situation like we have in Dust where the game is may so drastically separate from EVE that when they do want to do integration, its a hack job to try and glue it together.
If we're going to start over, I'd like to at least make sure the framework is in place to have this sort of thing work from the very start.
Like my ideas?
Pokey Dravon for CPM1
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Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
8671
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Posted - 2014.05.20 23:44:00 -
[20] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:steadyhand amarr wrote:You raise valid points i cant counter :-P i simple ask for a clear difined purpose then Items in Legion has to be produced somewhere, not just poofed into existence by an NPC. That being said, do you want to be able to make your own stuff for cheaper? Or be subject to the whims and profit margins on EVE players? The second option is certainly fine for those who don't mind paying a little more, but for those of us who like to save money, having a means to make our own is very appealing. That would be very appealing. But remember, baby steps. I understand that, but you don't want to hit a situation like we have in Dust where the game is made so drastically separate from EVE that when they do want to do integration, it's a hack job to try and glue it together. If we're going to start over, I'd like to at least make sure the framework is in place to have this sort of thing work from the very start, even if implementation is a ways away.
True, but the system that CCP brought up during Fanfest 2013 shows that it's possible to start small while making an impact between both games. With Eve players on one side making the gear and Legionaries on the other side provide the materials, the potential for a cross-game impact is enormous right there by itself while taking advantage of two already-established systems. PC in Legion and Industry in Eve. This would likely be the first, and preferable, step towards the goal of a full-blown industry.
On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
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