DUST Search - Sticky:[Feedback] Tackling Turrets

CCP Logibro wrote:

Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:

I feel that large missile turrets should have a shotgun style reload, but I don't think that's a server side change. (?)

On small turrets:

Small missile turrets are the best atm, for both anti-infantry and AV. Especially on assault dropships, where they're basically the only option.

Small railguns are mostly in a good place but I'm baffled as to why there's an overheat on them. It would excel in a focused AV role except overheat stops it being able to sustain the damage output long enough to kill vehicles. I'd like to see these as the best small turret for pure AV.

Small blasters aren't really very good. They're just kind of... lacking. You can't really use them on an assault dropship, if you're going to use them on an LAV it's more effective (and safer) to get out and use a rifle, and if you're going to use them to gun on an HAV there are better things to do with that player.

One thing I don't like about small turrets in general is their use on LAVs. They're overly difficult to hit targets with whilst moving and if you're stationary the gunner can get killed very, very easily. I'd like to see a frontal shield on LAV gunners - that way they're still very vulnerable if you flank them but if you attack them head on they can actually be dangerous. Though again that's not really a server side change...

Shotgun style reload for missiles is interesting, might actually be possible serverside. I'll look into it.

I think I've heard from some people on the forums that small rails have reduced damage against vehicles (?!), so we'll look at that first. I think the overheat is there more to limit it against infantry, so maybe we need to just give it a boost in damage against vehicles anyway.

Small blasters are the one I'm most worried about for the small turrets. Not really sure where to start with them personally, I think someone else had some ideas. Still interested to hear some ideas from people on how to make them better in an anti-infantry role, with at least some ability to tickle vehicles. It would be nice to have them as a viable option for dropships against infantry.

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 5 post(s)
Magnus Amadeuss Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 1063	Posted - 2014.05.18 16:55:00 - [61] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: Hey guys So on our list of things to look at, vehicle turrets are pretty high on our list. We've got some ideas floating around but we also wanted to hear from you guys as well. We're looking first at the Large Blaster Turrets, especially against infantry, but we're open to thoughts on vehicle turrets in general both against infantry and vehicles (though focusing on the first one more at the moment). Another thing I'm interested to hear from you guys is your thoughts on the effectiveness of small turrets. Please try to be concise and to the point with your feedback, bullet points are easier to digest. If you've got a thread running already, feel free to link to it in your post, but don't copy paste your entire thread to here. It always irked me that large turrets maintained the 100% effectiveness against infantry. This means that basically these supper large turrets have the same damage precision as small turrets and handheald weapons, and that just seems very wrong. For instance, the large blaster fires out balls of plasma that must be quite larger than the small turrets and plasma rifles, but yet this large ball of plasma still entirely hits the much smaller infantry. I think that while small turrets should definitely maintain 100% effectiveness against infantry, larger turrets should have reduced effectiveness. This is similar in mechanics to how large turrets work in eve, as the larger signature profiles of the weapons make hitting smaller targets much more difficult. Of course no such mechanic exist in Dust 514, but a reduced effectiveness would aptly correlate with it. This would also increase the usefulness of small turrets on tanks, as these small turrets are more focused on managing smaller targets. As far as small turret balance goes, it is pretty obvious that small missiles are just to powerful from the skies. This is due largely to their splash damage. I think if you were to reduce this the small missile turrets would be more balanced. Fixing swarms
ratained Dem Durrty Boyz General Tso's Alliance 0	Posted - 2014.05.19 03:15:00 - [62] - Quote Small turrets cant be effectively fit on tanks due to their high cpu/pg usage. How about we stop nerfing madrugars and gonlogies. I mean our hardeners are already trash in competitive games such as pc. Ads rules the field with their over power missile turrets that can kill tanks in the red lines in 10sec or less. Increase hardener effectiveness. Reduce small missle damage. Nerf the milita tanks so they arnt as prevalent. And give the madrugar about 50 more cpu so that one of the high slots can actually be used without forcing cpu extenders into the low slots.
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 296	Posted - 2014.05.19 03:29:00 - [63] - Quote ANON Cerberus wrote: shaman oga wrote: Blaster damage is fine, precision and range are way too high. 1.6 dispersion and range were fine, imo. This so much. I feel the level of damage while high, isn't the issue. The damage at range is too great. Edit - - Small Missiles - Good. - Small Rails - Situational at best. - Small Blasters - very Under Powered. Suggestions: - Small Missiles - Good (Leave as they are) - Small Rails - More damage, less overheat - Small Blasters - More range, possible HMG style spread so you can actually hit things while moving? (Think less firing rounds in a straight line and more spread shot like a HMG if possible?) As a side note, Shooting from moving vehicles with any small turret is very hard as the projectiles seem to not shoot where they are aimed and are 'carried' by the movement of the vehicle. has anyone seen the ridiculousness of small rail vs infantry? a gunnlogi with two of them is a stone wall vs infantry. you can two shot heavies. ive cleared out a whole team in under 10 seconds because my gunners popped everybody in sight. you cant run and you cant come out from cover. its the only turret that when i hear the rounds flying i RUN inside and stay there til the guy shooting leaves.
Ground Zero420 D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1	Posted - 2014.05.19 10:37:00 - [64] - Quote nerf firing distance of blaster tanks. No reason why they should be able to kill a swarm guy from a distance they can't even be locked-on at. Spartan mk420
MINA Longstrike 770	Posted - 2014.05.20 01:40:00 - [65] - Quote I'm mostly a dropship user, my skills aren't really super-invested in dropships as I wanted to branch out and do a little bit more but here are my thoughts on on the various turrets. Large blaster : Its RoF is probably a bit too high, and its range and precision are definitely too much. I'd cut the ROF by about 33-50% and increase the damage comparably - so it has the same DPS but its far less 'spray and pray' against infantry. Large missile : Its damage is very, very burst oriented - you either instantly kill the vehicle you're fighting, or you lose the fight. I'd prefer to move it a bit closer to the old missiles by lowering the rate of fire (.25 instead of .15) allowing it to reload missiles passively (at about .45 secs after the missile is fired), this essentially makes it an unending torrent of missiles, I'd also lower the damage a bit on it because of this. The aoe is also way too small to even bother trying to using it against infantry. Large rail : This thing is honestly just ***ing overpowered, with how it scales with damage modules and its terrifyingly impressive range (STILL!) a proto turret with 2 or 3 damage mods hits for something between 2700 damage and 3600 damage per shot, its rate of fire is really just way, way too high and it carries a boatload of ammo in every magazine. It can either keep the damage or lose rate of fire, or it can lose damage (a large chunk, about 400 per shot) and keep the RoF. Small missiles : Currently this weapon overperforms a bit when fitted to dropships, allowing it to splash infantry to death, it has really good direct hit damage, great splash damage and aoe range, it fires reasonably fast and it makes a very, very good generalist weapon as it doesn't require extended amounts of time on target to get kills versus infantry. Against other vehicles however it has some (small) quality of life problems - Dropship and tank HP is too high / regenerates too fast to get a kill unless you've got python 5, damage mods and passengers with turrets. I would slightly* buff direct hit damage, reduce splash damage a bit (splash range is fine) and either give it a larger magazine capacity or cause ammo modules to increase magazine capacity. Should probably have the slowest turning speed of the turrets in exchange for seemingly being above average everywhere else. Small rails : Most people agree that this weapon is best when fitted to an LAV for use as a bit of a sniping tool, as when traveling at high speeds it always seems to miss for some reason. It does reduced damage to vehicles currently, the differences in damage between tiers are a little bit too big, and the overheat mechanic really prevents it from performing in what seems to be its actual role of AV. Overheating really, really needs to go on this weapon - it is really holding it back, it needs its damage profile looked into as it should be ripping apart vehicles... the 200m range is probably fine, its lack of splash damage makes it more or less functionally useless against infantry when fitted to a dropship, if you have time to line up your shots though like in a stationary LAV it's essentially having a vehicle mounted thales sniper. Needs slight improvements to turret rotation speed. Small blasters : Low damage, Low range, Laser like precision, Low ammo, Bad damage profiles, Cannot even stop vehicle shield recharge, awful targeting reticule. I want to like this weapon, but in its current state it's just awful on dropships or on LAV's. To function properly, its reticule and dispersion should be more like the HMG's, its damage needs to go up a little bit, it could really use splash damage (something like 1.5m for half dmg), it should have much better base rotation speed and its ammo in magazine / ammo carried needs to be significantly improved (it drains too quickly and carries far too little). Overheat again holds this weapon back. When fitted to a dropship this thing should be a GAU-8, when fitted to a LAV it should be the best damn anti infantry turret in the game. Potential bugs: The turret rotation speed skill doesn't seem to be applying to any turrets. Small gripe: The incubus' singular high slot really holds it back from being able to 'hunt' other dropships as almost all of them carry an afterburner and in order to do any actual damage the incubus requires a damage module on its railgun. Ammo expansion modules should maybe have a subgroup that increases the amount of ammunition stored in the magazine. I think that just about covers it. A lot of it is just spitballing ideas, but I think that some of the large weapons need adjustments (or nerfs), small missiles need some slight tweaking and small hybrid turrets need buffing. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
XxGhazbaranxX The New Age Outlaws Proficiency V. 1341	Posted - 2014.05.20 08:32:00 - [66] - Quote Large blaster turrets should deal reduced damage to Vehicles; maybe a 20% penalty. Nothing that could make it so it can't fight back but enough to stimulate them being used as an anti-infantry specific weapon. Rails and missiles have a hard time killing infantry and are excellent at killing tanks but the Large Blaster Turret is an incredible asset as Anti-infantry and Anti-vehicle. Tankers should have to choose which area they want to be more proficient in. In this manner you balance the turret role towards what it's meant to do without nerfing it's damage potential towards that role. It's a turret who's main role is Anti-infantry and second role is Anti-vehicle. Right now it good at both; it would be good to have them have to choose as other turret type users have to choose what they want to be good at killing. Plasma Cannon Advocate Dust 514 Survivor
XxGhazbaranxX The New Age Outlaws Proficiency V. 1341	Posted - 2014.05.20 08:35:00 - [67] - Quote DAMAGE MODS In the same way that I can only fit one afterburner or one fuel Injector, damage mods provide too much if a benefit to permit 2 or more to be equipped. I believe it's either limit to only one damage mod or slash the bonus by Half to compensate for unbalanced use. Plasma Cannon Advocate Dust 514 Survivor
Tesfa Alem ACME SPECIAL FORCES RISE of LEGION 126	Posted - 2014.05.20 08:36:00 - [68] - Quote I think the Large blasters are not OP vs infantry. I fail to see the deifference in going 15-0 in a blaster tank is OP yet 40-2 in a proto suit isn't. The only times where i see them disporportionally really tear infantry to shreds is in ambush, where the one side has a little cover on a really small map with broken smart deploy and a limited ability to call in vehicles to counter the marauding Blaster tanks. Infantry are put in a bad place before the match has started. It wasn't that blaster turrets were effective v. infantry , that causes people to spam them, its because Soma's became so cheap to run. Now i see a current trend towards Railgun Madrugars, bringing out a blaster is much more risky in Domination and Skirmish. Nerfing large turret accuracy may help a bit, but over all you must look at the use of Large blasters in general. Damage ought to stay the same, its harder fighting rail tanks that can 3 shot you than most people think. Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
XxGhazbaranxX The New Age Outlaws Proficiency V. 1342	Posted - 2014.05.20 10:40:00 - [69] - Quote READ THIS THREAD PLEASE Here is a link to a thread I made about fixing small blaster turrets. This method avoids having to tamper with damage, fix hit detection issues or modify current aiming mechanism. In short the Fix is to remove overheat. Before agreeing or disagreeing, please read the the thread which contains the reasoning behind this simple change. CCP Logibro wrote: Hey guys Another thing I'm interested to hear from you guys is your thoughts on the effectiveness of small turrets. Please try to be concise and to the point with your feedback, bullet points are easier to digest. If you've got a thread running already, feel free to link to it in your post, but don't copy paste your entire thread to here. Plasma Cannon Advocate Dust 514 Survivor
Evolution-7 The Rainbow Effect 544	Posted - 2014.05.20 16:04:00 - [70] - Quote Also, aside from my blaster comment, there is a issue with small missiles as well. Before 1.8 you could have all gunners shoot directly forwards without taking damage from the missile is it were to hit the side of the ship. Video evidence: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4opd_L8EoO0 Now, after 1.8 your gunners take damage when firing forward if the small missile hits the ship. Video evidence: http://youtu.be/zEPJX3k_WG0?t=1m44s Happens to both gunners http://youtu.be/zEPJX3k_WG0?t=5m1s Right gunner is taken down, if you go frame by frame you can see the missile exploding as the shot is fired then you can see the health of the gunner going down. I had reported this earlier at the start of 1.8 but it all got swallowed up under the cloak and scout AND heavy QQ. Fix this ASAP CCP, it is completely intolerable to limit my gameplay because of a silly issue. Legion on PS4 "Fight on and fly on to the last drop of blood and the last drop of fuel, to the last beat of the heart"

Dunce Masterson Savage Bullet 105	Posted - 2014.05.21 03:42:00 - [71] - Quote first release the other turrets and vehicles on turrets the rate of fire on the rail is to fast for the amount of alpha is does. I don't even know why I bother.
Artemis Kaiba Shadow Broker Wet Squad 47	Posted - 2014.05.21 03:57:00 - [72] - Quote About 20GJ Blasters, i think there are many ways to tweak them. Right now, aiming issues and low damage output make them unpopular. The first idea may be to increase RoF. This would add more flexibility about their use. Another idea would be to add some aim assist mechanic, even though many players may not lie it. My last idea : the precision could be reduced in order to get those blasters a feeling more like a HMG.
The-Errorist 690	Posted - 2014.05.21 04:28:00 - [73] - Quote {Part 1/3 Turret roles and traits} Small turrets don't really have much of a role and the idea that a blaster is AI, a railgun is AA, and a missile is in between is oversimplified and blurs too much the roles of what a large and small turret should be. Here's what I think the roles and qualities the two turret classes should be: [Large turrets] Best for taking out large targets Worst for taking out small targets Slowest RoF Smallest splash radius Slowest tracking speed [Small turrets] Best for taking out small targets Worst for taking out large targets Highest RoF Highest splash radius Highest tracking speed With this plan, large blaster wouldn't be the most effective turret to kill infantry; then role slaying infantry and small vehicles like LAVs, would be reserved for small turrets. Here are the types, styles, and traits the turret types should follow. Blasters: Brawler Best turret in fast paced close range engagements Highest tracking speed Highest tracking speed Highest damage per minute Lowest heat cost per shot Lowest accuracy 2nd in dispersion Lowest splash radius & damage Missiles: Hit and run Best turret at medium-to-long range Slowest projectile speed 2nd in tracking speed 2nd Highest tracking speed Highest dispersion 2nd in accuracy Highest splash radius & damage High RoF Smallest magazine size 2nd in tracking speed High burst damage No damage drop-off Railguns: Sniper Best turret at long range engagements Low damage drop-off (currently has none) Highest alpha damage High burst damage Highest heat cost per shot Highest accuracy No dispersion 2nd in splash radius & damage Lowest tracking speed Slowest reload speed Lowest damage per minute {Part 2/3 Rebalancing turrets} [All turrets] Damage difference between tiers The damage gap between tiers is too big and its only consistent for large hybrid turrets. Anyway here are the stats: Large railguns: increase by 217.5 dmg between tiers and that's a 15% of Sta. Large missiles: increase by 83 dmg (20% increase) from Sta->Adv and increase by 41.5 at Pro which is 10% of Sta. Small missiles: increase by 70 dmg (20% increase) from Sta->Adv and increase by 35 at Pro which is 10% of Sta. Large blasters: increase by 15.75 dmg between tiers and that's a 15% of Sta. Small blasters: increase by 7.6 dmg (20% increase) from STA->Adv and increase by 3.8 at Pro which is 10% of Sta. In comparison, Infantry weapons increase by a flat 5% (except for a few weapons including the swarm launcher) and the difference between prototype and standard is 10%. The damage difference between tiers for turrets however, is very large and it's only consistent with large rails & blasters. The damage difference between standard and prototype is a huge 30% which 3x of a percent increase compared to what prototype infantry weapons get. I think it would be best if the damage boost between tiers was a flat 10% damage increase from standard which would give us a 20% difference between prototype and standard, fix the general problem of there being too much of a power gap between standard and prototype, and fix the unwanted diminishing returns effect when upgrading turrets. MAG vet, Dust closed beta vet, and an alt of Velvet Overkill (infantry) & Agent Overkill (vehicle).
The-Errorist 690	Posted - 2014.05.21 04:29:00 - [74] - Quote {Part 2/3 Rebalancing turrets} Continued To achieve the things I outlined above, these general things would need to be done and concerns I and some others feel: [Small turrets] A major problem with small turrets is that they have never been accurate while the vehicle was moving and a lot of times they don't shoot anywhere near where you aim. This is very noticeable for small turrets which should have pinpoint accuracy, but a lot of times, even if the reticule/dot is red, the shot can't hit the target; this even happens when stationary and especially on uneven ground. Another problem small turrets have is that they're too slow; they need to have a noticeably faster rotation speed compared to large turrets for them to be on any use on moving vehicles. Against installations and other vehicles, small turrets have a damage penalty and for small blasters, it huge; that penalty needs to be reduced and it should not discriminate against rails, missiles, and blasters. The penalties against vehicles & installations should like the following: Small turrets Full damage penalty against infantry -10% against installations, LAVs and dropships -20% against HAVs For more information on how much damage small turrets deal visit these threads: Pre: 1.8 thread (locked) Post 1.8 thread (also locked) [Missiles] They are the most balanced turret in game. Having shotgun like reload for missiles would be awesome, but they would need to be rebalanced (dmg, RoF & reload speed) so that they wont become OP; if that can't be done, don't add it. [Railguns] Damage profile All railgun turrets have, in-game, have a damage profile of +10% damage to shields and a -10% damage to armor which is backwards; the damage profile has been wrong since beta. Its weird that large railguns (I haven't tested small ones that much) don't have a damage falloff and do full damage at their maximum range. They would also need at most a 100m range buff too if this was done since they would be doing far less damage at higher ranges (also because it feels like the range is a tad too short already). [Range] The hotfix over nerfed the excessive range which railguns had and didn't address an equally if not worse set of problem: for starters, railguns don't have a damage drop-off and do full damage at their maximum range which doesn't make any sense. Railguns need around 100 or 150m of their range back and they need to have fall-off damage so their role as a long range sniper turret isn't messed up. [Reload speed] Another problem all railguns share is that they have the same reload speed as blasters which makes their damage per minute too high in comparison to blasters which are supposed to have the best dpm. For the best alpha damage turret, to have the 2nd best burst damage per second, in addition to the best damage per minute, just screams overpowered. Large railguns They need a combination a small RoF reduction with a reload speed increase (and small rails too) and maybe a heat cost per shot increase. Their damage per minute is way too high (~32k while a large blaster has ~23k), the interval between shots is to high, and as I said above, they have the same reload time as blasters (6s), which is way too many pros for a sniper rifle like turret. [Blasters] Damage per minute is fine, but their accuracy, and precision are too high; with a little less, they wouldn't need pinpoint railgun aim to effectively damage targets the way the should. This would make large blasters less effective at longer ranges and at the same time make small blasters easier to work with. Large Blasters Their RoF is too high; a RoF reduction, and a direct damage increase (like the old compressed/breach variant) would make it still a useful turret, but not seem like the most OP infantry slaying gun ever in modern gaming history and prevent them from being able to easily kill people when they're past in the swarm launcher's lock-on range. Small blaster In addition to the general blaster problems and efficacy problem against vehicles above, small blasters have an awful targeting reticule, have too little reserve ammo, and they overheat too quickly, making the worst turret ever. They need an aiming reticule more like an HMG, they they really need splash radius back, lower heat cost per shot, and its reserve ammo capacity improved. I used to use blasters on my ADS against infantry when they had a splash radius and it was pretty fun for me and my gunners for a short while; it was good enough to get several kills and scare away other vehicles, but wasn't as effective as it should be. The changes above would make them fun and actually useful for something, even on a dropship. MAG vet, Dust closed beta vet, and an alt of Velvet Overkill (infantry) & Agent Overkill (vehicle).
The-Errorist 690	Posted - 2014.05.21 04:30:00 - [75] - Quote {Part 3/3 Other issues} [Vehicles] All vehicles classes should not share the same damage-to-stop-shield-recharge/Shield Impairment Dmg threshold; tanks should keep theirs at 102, dropships should have theirs a little lower, and LAVs should have theirs even lower, so that a small blaster at it's optimal range would be able to stop an LAVs shields from regenerating. This makes sense since small turrets are supposed to be effective against small targets, large turrets are for large targets, and it wouldn't be make sense if a large blaster can stop shield regen on a tank. but a small blaster can't stop shield regen on an LAV. Turret pitch Gallente tanks still have a greater range of motion than caldari tanks, making them even better for any turret. Just try and see how low you can aim a railgun on a soma compared to a sica. LAVs To also bolster small turret use, there would need to be more protection for gunners either by giving them a frontal shield or maybe even a bit of damage resistance if that client-side change isn't possible. I would very much like shotgun style reload for missiles, it makes lots of sense just like the recent ability to individually fire missiles. Though it sounds cool, missiles would need to be rebalanced so that they won't be overpowered, especially for an ADS, it would be a nightmare to have to go against an ADS with lv5 reload skills that is seemingly able to fire missiles nonstop as infantry. [Installations] Turret installations get destroyed in the first minute of the match and don't get to serve any tactical value because of how squishy they are and they need to be easier to hack then to destroy, not the other way around. They need at least 3k more HP to serve any purpose on the battlefield. Turrets installations need to have the same stats as their standard vehicle turret counterparts and benefit from the gunner's skills like for turret rotation and reload speed. The AI is too smart sometimes and can target you when not aggressed and you're far away from it. Large missile installations They can hit targets all the way from your ground spawn area all the way to the enemy MCC, and the reload speed is pretty high which makes it way OP against dropships. MAG vet, Dust closed beta vet, and an alt of Velvet Overkill (infantry) & Agent Overkill (vehicle).
nickmunson Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 17	Posted - 2014.05.21 11:45:00 - [76] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: I feel that large missile turrets should have a shotgun style reload, but I don't think that's a server side change. (?) On small turrets: Small missile turrets are the best atm, for both anti-infantry and AV. Especially on assault dropships, where they're basically the only option. Small railguns are mostly in a good place but I'm baffled as to why there's an overheat on them. It would excel in a focused AV role except overheat stops it being able to sustain the damage output long enough to kill vehicles. I'd like to see these as the best small turret for pure AV. Small blasters aren't really very good. They're just kind of... lacking. You can't really use them on an assault dropship, if you're going to use them on an LAV it's more effective (and safer) to get out and use a rifle, and if you're going to use them to gun on an HAV there are better things to do with that player. One thing I don't like about small turrets in general is their use on LAVs. They're overly difficult to hit targets with whilst moving and if you're stationary the gunner can get killed very, very easily. I'd like to see a frontal shield on LAV gunners - that way they're still very vulnerable if you flank them but if you attack them head on they can actually be dangerous. Though again that's not really a server side change... Shotgun style reload for missiles is interesting, might actually be possible serverside. I'll look into it. I think I've heard from some people on the forums that small rails have reduced damage against vehicles (?!), so we'll look at that first. I think the overheat is there more to limit it against infantry, so maybe we need to just give it a boost in damage against vehicles anyway. Small blasters are the one I'm most worried about for the small turrets. Not really sure where to start with them personally, I think someone else had some ideas. Still interested to hear some ideas from people on how to make them better in an anti-infantry role, with at least some ability to tickle vehicles. It would be nice to have them as a viable option for dropships against infantry. here's just a general idea since the dps is so low vs vehicle, why not just add a small explosive damage vs vehicle only as well. other then that honestly they are completely useless in the game all around. well they are hybrid so really not sure, cause that would fall under a min gun, maybe a burst effect like a small flux just hit it for an extra 25 hp towards shield per bullet. love me or hate me. you kill me i hunt you.
Grimmiers 560	Posted - 2014.05.21 19:33:00 - [77] - Quote Oh I forgot one more important thing about turrets. Add a deadzone to the vehicles movement affecting where the turret is aiming. If a vehicles is turning slowly the turret should still be aiming at the same angle while quicker turns will would mess up the gunner's aim. Halo vehicle turrets work like this for a reference point, only I wouldn't want the lav to be able to do 360 spins while the gunner's horizontal angle never changes. This would probably alleviate some of the problems with turrets being so inaccurate.


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