DUST Search - [Looking for ideas] Attacking and Defending

501st Headstrong wrote:

Well PC should be more realistic. Legion could expand on the ability to add defenses to your district. Eve Players have to transport your Clone Packs to the planet. As a result, they send us mercs in as a small force to try to take the area. Reinforcements go up as each Null Cannon is won, allowing the tide of clone reinforcements to shift per number of cannons owned. If you win that battle, then you would move on to what I call the attrition state in which the grand Null Cannon( Domination) is to be protected. Lose this and you are back to fighting over the other Null Cannons (Skirmish), but with far less clones as Eve ships are destroyed or forced to retreat. And Eve battles could occur so that if you lose your Clone packs you only have the merc limited number of 48 (three lives for 16 players).

Finally to get rid of hostile players on the planet (f you lose a battle it is realistic you retreat), whether invading, or defending is Ambush. If Defenders win, then they take back the Null cannon and get reinforcements. If the Attackers win, the planet is conquered.

Makes sense for Corps to buy as many clone packs as possible seeing as you could actually go through 400 clones in a PC. Oh, this is also my idea for Factional Warfare 2.0, seeing as it is just PC, but with the factions :)

It is but to keep the nerves at strain, to dry one's eyes and laugh at a fall, and baffled, get up and begin again.

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S Park Finner DUST University Ivy League 372	Posted - 2014.05.15 20:36:00 - [1] - Quote One core idea of DUST 514 is that territory owners an hire mercenaries to defend their territory or attack another owner's territory. In EVE there's a complicated rendezvous / time out / attrition mechanism to make that happen. I don't believe something that complex will work for Legion. Planetary Conquest, even with a lot of effort on the Dev's part, has had it's share of problems. Does anyone have ideas for a lighter weight mechanism that allows attacking and defending territory to be assigned to corporations in Legion while making things reasonably open and fair? For those that don't know the problem: If you just say "Corporation 1 is the defender" and "Corporation 2 is the attacker" then either 1 has to have players on 24/7 and fight off anyone who shows up or 2 slips in when there's no-one around and takes over the territory. Scheduling battles, on the other hand, can easily lock out smaller corporations or lock in ownership. Too many rules and things grind to a halt. It is but to keep the nerves at strain, to dry one's eyes and laugh at a fall, and baffled, get up and begin again.
Syeven Reed G0DS AM0NG MEN 642	Posted - 2014.05.15 20:44:00 - [2] - Quote https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2151898 is an idea? Gives a bit more meaning to the cold down timer but also makes it so you can mess with the corp/alliance while there on CD :) Twitter MajLagSpike CPM Application
Hawk-eye Occultus ARKOMBlNE 199	Posted - 2014.05.15 21:24:00 - [3] - Quote Skirmish 1.0. 'Nuff said. Shofixti beats an Ur-Quan Dreadnought and a Kor-Ah Marauder.
501st Headstrong G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 181	Posted - 2014.05.15 21:36:00 - [4] - Quote Well PC should be more realistic. Legion could expand on the ability to add defenses to your district. Eve Players have to transport your Clone Packs to the planet. As a result, they send us mercs in as a small force to try to take the area. Reinforcements go up as each Null Cannon is won, allowing the tide of clone reinforcements to shift per number of cannons owned. If you win that battle, then you would move on to what I call the attrition state in which the grand Null Cannon( Domination) is to be protected. Lose this and you are back to fighting over the other Null Cannons (Skirmish), but with far less clones as Eve ships are destroyed or forced to retreat. And Eve battles could occur so that if you lose your Clone packs you only have the merc limited number of 48 (three lives for 16 players). Finally to get rid of hostile players on the planet (f you lose a battle it is realistic you retreat), whether invading, or defending is Ambush. If Defenders win, then they take back the Null cannon and get reinforcements. If the Attackers win, the planet is conquered. Makes sense for Corps to buy as many clone packs as possible seeing as you could actually go through 400 clones in a PC. Oh, this is also my idea for Factional Warfare 2.0, seeing as it is just PC, but with the factions :) From the Clone Wars I came. Here, I am a man among tamed beasts, and a god...among men.- 501st Headstrong.
S Park Finner DUST University Ivy League 372	Posted - 2014.05.15 21:41:00 - [5] - Quote Syeven Reed wrote: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2151898 is an idea? Gives a bit more meaning to the cold down timer but also makes it so you can mess with the corp/alliance while there on CD :) Syeven, If I understand it correctly your proposal would open territory up to continuous battles by having NPC defenders and defence infrastructure in place. How would you allocate credit to hired defenders and attackers? Hawk-eye Occultus wrote: Skirmish 1.0. 'Nuff said. Hawk-eye, I don't understand how Skirmish 1.0 addresses the problem. While the "moving through levels of defence" aspects of skirmish 1.0 were certainly an entertaining game mode I don't see how it solves the rendezvous problems for attackers and defenders. Perhaps you could flesh it out for me. It is but to keep the nerves at strain, to dry one's eyes and laugh at a fall, and baffled, get up and begin again.
Syeven Reed G0DS AM0NG MEN 643	Posted - 2014.05.15 22:04:00 - [6] - Quote S Park Finner wrote: Syeven Reed wrote: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2151898 is an idea? Gives a bit more meaning to the cold down timer but also makes it so you can mess with the corp/alliance while there on CD :) Syeven, If I understand it correctly your proposal would open territory up to continuous battles by having NPC defenders and defence infrastructure in place. How would you allocate credit to hired defenders and attackers? Thats pretty much it, but the NPC defenders aren't meant to be there to replace mercs, they are simply there to provide a better alternative to a timer dictating when to attack, and to bolster a weaker corp's clone reserves. When the district is on lockdown, (overheat) the force is meant to be to much for an attacker. Alternatively there would still be a cool down window (a window where NPC's can't be produced so rapidly and because you can't overheat for too long) where you can mount your attack and meet minimal, if none at all, NPC resistance. Twitter MajLagSpike CPM Application
S Park Finner DUST University Ivy League 372	Posted - 2014.05.16 02:43:00 - [7] - Quote 501st Headstrong wrote: Well PC should be more realistic. Legion could expand on the ability to add defenses to your district. Eve Players have to transport your Clone Packs to the planet. As a result, they send us mercs in as a small force to try to take the area. Reinforcements go up as each Null Cannon is won, allowing the tide of clone reinforcements to shift per number of cannons owned. If you win that battle, then you would move on to what I call the attrition state in which the grand Null Cannon( Domination) is to be protected. Lose this and you are back to fighting over the other Null Cannons (Skirmish), but with far less clones as Eve ships are destroyed or forced to retreat. And Eve battles could occur so that if you lose your Clone packs you only have the merc limited number of 48 (three lives for 16 players). Finally to get rid of hostile players on the planet (f you lose a battle it is realistic you retreat), whether invading, or defending is Ambush. If Defenders win, then they take back the Null cannon and get reinforcements. If the Attackers win, the planet is conquered. Makes sense for Corps to buy as many clone packs as possible seeing as you could actually go through 400 clones in a PC. Oh, this is also my idea for Factional Warfare 2.0, seeing as it is just PC, but with the factions :) The responses so far argue for: Being able to fight over territory any time Attrition as a mechanism for deciding territory ownership A GÇ£naturalGÇ¥ progression of difficulty as the attackers get closer to ownership - - - Ability to field a larger number of clones - - - Additional NPC defenses But what we haven't had suggestions for is how attackers and defenders get together to fight over the territory. Or, barring them facing off directly, how do we give credit to attackers helping to overcome defenders and defenders successfully defending? Any ideas for that? It is but to keep the nerves at strain, to dry one's eyes and laugh at a fall, and baffled, get up and begin again.
Ayures II Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 648	Posted - 2014.05.16 02:54:00 - [8] - Quote Reinforcement timers are fine. MCCs could basically replace IHubs, TCUs, and/or SBUs. Some other structure or something could replace one or two of those, but an MCC being all 3 could simplify things a lot. Do that and keep everything open-world. PC Master Race
S Park Finner DUST University Ivy League 372	Posted - 2014.05.17 22:50:00 - [9] - Quote Ayures II wrote: Reinforcement timers are fine. MCCs could basically replace IHubs, TCUs, and/or SBUs. Some other structure or something could replace one or two of those, but an MCC being all 3 could simplify things a lot. Do that and keep everything open-world. This is a good idea. After looking at other threads that address this issue and what we've said here I thought I'd take a shot at putting together a synthesis. I'm trying to have a light weight system that eliminates attackers and defenders having to sign up for battles at particular times but still gives them credit and lets them stage battles if they want to. If you care and have the time I'd really like you to beat the ideas up. Remember, though, CCP will almost certainly not implement or integrate these ideas in the game. At this point its an exercise to see if we can come up with principles that meet the requirements. Principles: Territory can only be taken if the attackers win a series of battles. The battles have to be distributed over a long enough time to allow the defenders to respond. If that number was, say, five battles the attackers would have to win all five to take the territory. Each time the attacker wins the next battle becomes more difficult GÇô perhaps by more resources being available to the defenders, or more NPC support (drones), or a game mode that favors defenders. If the attacker has won four battles (in our example) and then the defender wins one the attackers are put back to the three battle level. Defense and attack contracts are for a period of time. Multiple contracts and subcontracts are allowed. For a defender to get credit the territory must stay in the owner's hands for the period of the defender contract and defender mercenaries must participate in winning defense battles. Defenders get one point per player when they win. For the attackers to get credit the attackers must take the district within the alloted time and attacker mercenaries must participate in winning attack battles. Attackers get one point per player when they win. The contribution of corporations to winning or loosing is tallied up at the end of the contract and the territory owner uses that to settle up with the mercenary corporation. When ever a defender or attacker signs up for a battle in the territory they are contracted to the game system will schedule a battle for that district. Attackers only get placed on the attacking team, defenders only on the defending team. Slots not filled by the contracted corporations will be filled by random players. Either attackers or defenders can call for a scheduled battle. All parties contracted to the territory are notified and if at least one team on both sides signs up the battle is scheduled. The game system will randomly schedule battles over territory with random players so the territory is always at some risk. It is but to keep the nerves at strain, to dry one's eyes and laugh at a fall, and baffled, get up and begin again.
Universal Decimator Interstellar Legionnaires 44	Posted - 2014.05.19 03:33:00 - [10] - Quote Defender Attacker attacker initiates an attack on defender . An attack cost 5 - 15 million isk deposit upfront. Attacker choses how many houres to comence the attack in, 24 houres = 15 mill, 48 = 10 mill, 72 = 5 mill. Defender is notified of the attack imediatly and what time the attack will happen. The attack will comenc in exactly 24, 48 or 72 houres. Defender has this amount of houres to hire as many Merc's as posible to help defend the attack. Attacker has this amount of houres to hire as many merc's as posible to help in the attack. Both defender and attacker will be tasked with supplying the battle menu or market place with contracts. Contracts cost 250,000 ISK deposit upfront (1,250,000 for a win only contract) to be supplyed to the battle menu or market place. How much each contract is for is up to defender and attacker, this extra amount of isk will be added to the contract and kept seperet from the deposit payed. This extra amount of isk is the only amount of isk that the hired merc's will recive upone compleation of the battle. All deposits will be returned upon compleation of the battle. If you payed any deposits for a battle and you want them back, then all you have to do is, show up for the start of the battle, complete the battle and do not AFK, do not here the words "you are contractualy abliged to engage in battle". If a merc excepts a contract, he or she must pay a 1 million isk deposit upfront. The deposit will be refunded upon compleation of the battle so long as the merc, showed up for the start of the battle, compleated the battle and did not AFK, did not here the words "you are contracualy abliged to engage in battle". In this basic contract the merc will recive the extra amount of isk put into the contract no matter what. In a win only contract the merc will only recieve the extra isk if his or her team wins. The battle will comence on time no matter what with as many as hundreds of merc's on each side. Defender may have drones that they have build to help defend. The winners will get the salvige. Territory will imedeatly go to eather the attacker or defender. Many diferent kinds of contract can be made, proto gear only contract cost 750,000 extra deposit - If the merc uses anything but proto grear then they do not get paid the extra isk put into the contract. Contracts can be mass produced and put out. Display will ask the person "how many of these contracts do you wish to creat. Pre contracts may be able to be produced for those wishing to defend there teritory. In this case if a merc accepts the pre contract, then they will be given a notification of when the battle will comence. Pay me for my genuis with aurum if you want better spelling

True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 10245	Posted - 2014.05.19 04:48:00 - [11] - Quote I am actually a fan of attrition rather than leaving PC in the hands of singular battles. I would prefer to see players campaign against districts engaging in certain actions that increase an attrition modifier that a corporation have to build up before a conclusive battle can be waged. However these modifiers are universal and other corporations can build up the attrition and steal your attacking contracts. The way I envision PC in Legion is more of a peaceful construct with many corporations holding their own districts and regions because as you gain territory it becomes increasingly more complex to hold and manage. Where coalitions and alliances can be formed to protect mutual interests or betrayals can happen from within as friendly forces slowly build up attrition meters. Where attacking corporations can set the rough times for attacking enemy districts and conclusive battles happen every other day, whereas lesser campaigns and conflicts to increase and decrease attrition metres happen daily. Numbers mean something, mercenaries can be hired to keep attrition build ups anonymous, etc. Markdown:


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