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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Universal Decimator
Interstellar Legionnaires
39
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Posted - 2014.05.14 15:43:00 -
[1] - Quote
I'll admit I don't know to much about PC gaming, as I am currently trying to wrap my head around it, but the more I find out about it the more Its seems open to down right cheaters and hackers. Apparently if you are extremely rich and are able to build a super computer, than you can run your PC games at a much higher frame rate. This is what is allowing some people with really good internet connections and great computers to fly around the game as if they where superman. I hope that LEGION will run very fast and very smoothly, but I also hope that it will not be open to cheaters who will wreck the experience for others. |
Arkena Wyrnspire
Fatal Absolution
13236
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Posted - 2014.05.14 15:45:00 -
[2] - Quote
Capping frame rate does not stop hacking.
You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.
CCP Blowout for best dev
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Nyctohylophobia
Kinsho Swords Caldari State
42
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Posted - 2014.05.14 16:25:00 -
[3] - Quote
Are you really for real? If not, a solid 10/10.
Cheating in games works because of hacks, like modified graphics drivers or a (illegally) modified game client and works regardless of how high your frame rate (FPS), how fast your internet connection is or how much money you spent on your PC. |
Himiko Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance
4066
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Posted - 2014.05.14 17:09:00 -
[4] - Quote
Wow.
I just.... wow. |
Universal Decimator
Interstellar Legionnaires
39
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Posted - 2014.05.14 17:32:00 -
[5] - Quote
yes, so if LEGION will run at 60 FPS, than no player should be able to run faster than 60 FPS on LEGION correct ? |
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CCP Logibro
C C P C C P Alliance
7550
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Posted - 2014.05.14 17:42:00 -
[6] - Quote
There is generally no real benefit to running at over 60FPS as most monitors only support 60Hz. Some monitors support 120Hz, but even then it doesn't really give you that much of a benefit in game.
The only reason to cap FPS (or give an option to cap it) would be to deliberately make it so your system limits the amount of power used to play the game (say if you instance you were doing something else in the background).
CCP Logibro // Patron Saint of Logistics // Distributor of Nanites
(a¦á_a¦á)
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Starfire Revo
DUST University Ivy League
236
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Posted - 2014.05.14 17:52:00 -
[7] - Quote
CCP Logibro wrote:Some monitors support 120Hz, but even then it doesn't really give you that much of a benefit in game. Try telling that to a Quake or Counterstrike pro. :P
I make videos of EVE and Dust http://www.youtube.com/mrgimbleb
I write about EVE and Dust http://mrgimbleb.blogspot.com
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RayRay James
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
140
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Posted - 2014.05.14 18:31:00 -
[8] - Quote
CCP Logibro wrote:There is generally no real benefit to running at over 60FPS as most monitors only support 60Hz. Some monitors support 120Hz, but even then it doesn't really give you that much of a benefit in game.
The only reason to cap FPS (or give an option to cap it) would be to deliberately make it so your system limits the amount of power used to play the game (say if you instance you were doing something else in the background).
You know, like running your Legion client in addition to your 4 EVE clients. Gotta get that mining done sometime.
Mining hulls is still mining, right? |
Himiko Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance
4069
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Posted - 2014.05.14 18:35:00 -
[9] - Quote
CCP Logibro wrote:There is generally no real benefit to running at over 60FPS as most monitors only support 60Hz. Some monitors support 120Hz, but even then it doesn't really give you that much of a benefit in game.
The only reason to cap FPS (or give an option to cap it) would be to deliberately make it so your system limits the amount of power used to play the game (say if you instance you were doing something else in the background).
WROOOOOOONG! |
Mia Romani
Nexus Marines
103
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Posted - 2014.05.14 18:43:00 -
[10] - Quote
Universal Decimator wrote:yes, so if LEGION will run at 60 FPS, than no player should be able to run faster than 60 FPS on LEGION correct ? A long, long time ago, there were games that used the framerate to control other game elements:
- The original Tomb Raider (1996) actually tied the game's internal clock to it, so that doubling your framerate would double the speed at which everything happened. Needless to say, this made the game unplayable at high framerates.
- In some very early builds of the Half-Life mod called Natural Selection, there was a bug that caused a player's jet pack to recharge faster and their machine gun to fire faster as their FPS climbed, giving them an advantage over other players.
Fortunately this practice is long gone now, and we shouldn't have to worry about this sort of silliness happening in modern games. This won't stop people from exploiting different kinds of bugs, but at least this one is nothing more than an amusing piece of history now. |
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Vance Alken
Commando Perkone Caldari State
162
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Posted - 2014.05.14 20:15:00 -
[11] - Quote
Mia Romani wrote:Universal Decimator wrote:yes, so if LEGION will run at 60 FPS, than no player should be able to run faster than 60 FPS on LEGION correct ? A long, long time ago, there were games that used the framerate to control other game elements: - The original Tomb Raider (1996) actually tied the game's internal clock to it, so that doubling your framerate would double the speed at which everything happened. Needless to say, this made the game unplayable at high framerates.
- In some very early builds of the Half-Life mod called Natural Selection, there was a bug that caused a player's jet pack to recharge faster and their machine gun to fire faster as their FPS climbed, giving them an advantage over other players.
Fortunately this practice is long gone now, and we shouldn't have to worry about this sort of silliness happening in modern games. This won't stop people from exploiting different kinds of bugs, but at least this one is nothing more than an amusing piece of history now.
Oh no this terrible practice is FAR from gone. Trials: Fusion is locked to 60fps, the latest NFS game was locked to 60fps, the first Dark Souls was locked to 60fps (or was it 30?). It's sadly pretty common for ports. Unless the CCP devs are utterly incompetent in making a PC game it shouldn't be a problem though.
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Buster Friently
Rosen Association
2365
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Posted - 2014.05.14 20:33:00 -
[12] - Quote
Universal Decimator wrote:I'll admit I don't know to much about PC gaming, as I am currently trying to wrap my head around it, but the more I find out about it the more Its seems open to down right cheaters and hackers. Apparently if you are extremely rich and are able to build a super computer, than you can run your PC games at a much higher frame rate. This is what is allowing some people with really good internet connections and great computers to fly around the game as if they where superman. I hope that LEGION will run very fast and very smoothly, but I also hope that it will not be open to cheaters who will wreck the experience for others.
Please. CCP. do the exact opposite of what this guy keeps asking.
Framerate capping would be suicide.
OP - Stick to consoles where you are used to what you think of as a "fair" playing field. Us adults will play on the flexible PC.
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Buster Friently
Rosen Association
2365
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Posted - 2014.05.14 20:36:00 -
[13] - Quote
CCP Logibro wrote:There is generally no real benefit to running at over 60FPS as most monitors only support 60Hz. Some monitors support 120Hz, but even then it doesn't really give you that much of a benefit in game.
The only reason to cap FPS (or give an option to cap it) would be to deliberately make it so your system limits the amount of power used to play the game (say if you instance you were doing something else in the background).
This is absolutely incorrect.
I challenge you to find a monitor made recently that will only update at 60fps. Also, higher framerates solve many problems for the end user and adds significantly to immersion and generally a better play experience.
If someone wants to limit their FPS, simply give them a dropdown to do so.
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jerrmy12 kahoalii
Proficiency V.
1506
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Posted - 2014.05.14 21:53:00 -
[14] - Quote
What does limiting framerate so exactly?
Closed beta vet.
I hardly play dust now.
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Godin Thekiller
shadows of 514
2268
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Posted - 2014.05.14 22:01:00 -
[15] - Quote
jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote:What does limiting framerate so exactly?
Punish people who has expensive gear.
click me
Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
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Godin Thekiller
shadows of 514
2269
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Posted - 2014.05.14 22:11:00 -
[16] - Quote
OP, this is pointless.........
click me
Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
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Universal Decimator
Interstellar Legionnaires
39
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Posted - 2014.05.15 13:48:00 -
[17] - Quote
Buster Friently wrote:Universal Decimator wrote:I'll admit I don't know to much about PC gaming, as I am currently trying to wrap my head around it, but the more I find out about it the more Its seems open to down right cheaters and hackers. Apparently if you are extremely rich and are able to build a super computer, than you can run your PC games at a much higher frame rate. This is what is allowing some people with really good internet connections and great computers to fly around the game as if they where superman. I hope that LEGION will run very fast and very smoothly, but I also hope that it will not be open to cheaters who will wreck the experience for others. Please. CCP. do the exact opposite of what this guy keeps asking. Framerate capping would be suicide. OP - Stick to consoles where you are used to what you think of as a "fair" playing field. Us adults will play on the flexible PC.
OP - stay on PC where you can cheat and pretend your a good player ! |
Phoenix 85
Kirkinen Risk Control Caldari State
94
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Posted - 2014.05.15 15:45:00 -
[18] - Quote
Universal Decimator wrote:I'll admit I don't know to much about PC gaming, as I am currently trying to wrap my head around it, but the more I find out about it the more Its seems open to down right cheaters and hackers. Apparently if you are extremely rich and are able to build a super computer, than you can run your PC games at a much higher frame rate. This is what is allowing some people with really good internet connections and great computers to fly around the game as if they where superman. I hope that LEGION will run very fast and very smoothly, but I also hope that it will not be open to cheaters who will wreck the experience for others.
You know nothing about PC.
Frame rate doesnt allow anyone to "cheat" it just provides a smoother experience. You can spend 600$ and play many games at max and get 1920x1200 and 60+fps.
EDUCATE YOURSELF
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Phoenix 85
Kirkinen Risk Control Caldari State
94
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Posted - 2014.05.15 16:44:00 -
[19] - Quote
Universal Decimator wrote:Buster Friently wrote:Universal Decimator wrote:I'll admit I don't know to much about PC gaming, as I am currently trying to wrap my head around it, but the more I find out about it the more Its seems open to down right cheaters and hackers. Apparently if you are extremely rich and are able to build a super computer, than you can run your PC games at a much higher frame rate. This is what is allowing some people with really good internet connections and great computers to fly around the game as if they where superman. I hope that LEGION will run very fast and very smoothly, but I also hope that it will not be open to cheaters who will wreck the experience for others. Please. CCP. do the exact opposite of what this guy keeps asking. Framerate capping would be suicide. OP - Stick to consoles where you are used to what you think of as a "fair" playing field. Us adults will play on the flexible PC. OP - stay on PC where you can cheat and pretend you're a good player !
You are the OP, LOL. The peasantry is so strong you are either 1. 12 yr old 2. Delusionally clueless or 3. A supreme troll.
EDUCATE YOURSELF
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Karl Koekwaus
227
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Posted - 2014.05.15 18:00:00 -
[20] - Quote
So many bad people in this thread. In some older engines it used to be that you could jump higher and further with an higher than avarage framerate, as it used your FPS and some crap to determine stuff like gravity etc. That got fixed with all the shiny physics engine stuff we now have though.
http://www.funender.com/quake/articles/fps.html
the more you know.....
Micheal Jackson died for my sins
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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
9707
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Posted - 2014.05.15 18:57:00 -
[21] - Quote
I REALLY hope the average console player isn't this stupid
I'm sure not, but there is that flicker of doubt when I see a post like this.
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
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Universal Decimator
Interstellar Legionnaires
41
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Posted - 2014.05.15 19:27:00 -
[22] - Quote
OP = original post (I see)
OK, OK I guess we will see when LEGION gets here. I hope it is a great game and I hope it is fare to all players.
OP - end of post. |
Universal Decimator
Interstellar Legionnaires
41
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Posted - 2014.05.15 19:32:00 -
[23] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:I REALLY hope the average console player isn't this stupid I'm sure not, but there is that flicker of doubt when I see a post like this.
The only one who is stupid is you, If you don't care to find out if the game is going to be fare. I for one will have to wait and see what the players are saying about LEGION before I get suckered into another PC game. |
Joel II X
Dah Gods O Bacon
2573
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Posted - 2014.05.15 21:16:00 -
[24] - Quote
Starfire Revo wrote:CCP Logibro wrote:Some monitors support 120Hz, but even then it doesn't really give you that much of a benefit in game. Try telling that to a Quake or Counterstrike pro. :P It's true!
Humans can only view 40-50 FPS, anyways. Heh... Frames in real life... |
Buster Friently
Rosen Association
2404
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Posted - 2014.05.16 22:15:00 -
[25] - Quote
Joel II X wrote:Starfire Revo wrote:CCP Logibro wrote:Some monitors support 120Hz, but even then it doesn't really give you that much of a benefit in game. Try telling that to a Quake or Counterstrike pro. :P It's true! Humans can only view 40-50 FPS, anyways. Heh... Frames in real life...
This is completely, and utterly false.
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Buster Friently
Rosen Association
2404
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Posted - 2014.05.16 22:18:00 -
[26] - Quote
Universal Decimator wrote:Cat Merc wrote:I REALLY hope the average console player isn't this stupid I'm sure not, but there is that flicker of doubt when I see a post like this. The only one who is stupid is you, If you don't care to find out if the game is going to be fair. I for one will have to wait and see what the players are saying about LEGION before I get suckered into another PC game.
PC games aren't, and shouldn't be "fair" by the standards you men. I say this with the understanding that you meant "fair" to mean making the game detuned to the lowest common denominator. In other words, you want to take the worst possible conditions, and normalize everyone to that so that the game is "fair".
This is not how it works in the PC world. It shouldn't work this way either. If that's the kind of "fair" that you want, please stick to consoles where this model doesn't fit either, but at least there's the illusion of it that so many console gamers hang on to.
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Universal Decimator
Interstellar Legionnaires
42
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Posted - 2014.05.17 04:04:00 -
[27] - Quote
PC games aren't, and shouldn't be "fair" Nice to here someone being honest though.
Getting over your denial is the first step in recovery to a console, nice job! |
ANON Cerberus
Tiny Toons
719
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Posted - 2014.05.19 03:03:00 -
[28] - Quote
It comes down to personal preferance.
For me personally, anything above 60 fps is just fine for me. While I know people want 120Hz + and feel it does make the difference. In reality the difference is negligible (to me that is) and it is a personal preference. |
Aeon Amadi
Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation
5674
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Posted - 2014.05.19 08:40:00 -
[29] - Quote
I really am disappointed in all the players acting like this is some mark of stupidity or incompetence. Yes, it is mildly humorous but it is in no way an excuse for you to bully another member of the community. It should be a golden opportunity to educate them, however. This isn't a console vs PC war - we're still a community.
The difference in FPS (Frames Per Second) is a lot like a flip-book with a bunch of pictures of a ball moving from top to bottom. The faster you flip the pages, the faster the ball will move in the animation. Thing is, in most computer gaming, the game is always going to move at a certain speed - with the FPS being a client restriction.
Let's say you have a car moving from left to right. If you have 15 Frames Per Second, it [the animation] will appear sluggish and chunky. If I have 60 FPS (or more) it will appear more smooth. For the record, the human eye can generally only see movement at 1/60th of a second (60 FPS) so anything higher and the average human eye can't really perceive the difference.
Monitors and televisions refresh the screen at different timings, measured in Hz. The average is about 60Hz, but there are others like some gaming monitors which measure faster, providing for a smoother picture. Like this picture of a 60hz vs 240hz comparison.Or this example of the difference between 60hz and 120hz.
Generally, to me, anything over 45 FPS looks a bit unnatural as I prefer things to sit around 30 FPS for that more "dramatic" feel. But anything beneath 30 FPS and you're going to start noticing problems. A good example is "PC Lag" which is more of a massive framerate dip from performance rather than actual Network lag. Lag is often misconstrued as there's two different forms: Input Lag and Network Lag, but that's a conversation for another time.
Useful Links
//forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=133588
//forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134182
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Buster Friently
Rosen Association
2411
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Posted - 2014.05.19 16:39:00 -
[30] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:I really am disappointed in all the players acting like this is some mark of stupidity or incompetence. Yes, it is mildly humorous but it is in no way an excuse for you to bully another member of the community. It should be a golden opportunity to educate them, however. This isn't a console vs PC war - we're still a community. The difference in FPS (Frames Per Second) is a lot like a flip-book with a bunch of pictures of a ball moving from top to bottom. The faster you flip the pages, the faster the ball will move in the animation. Thing is, in most computer gaming, the game is always going to move at a certain speed - with the FPS being a client restriction. Let's say you have a car moving from left to right. If you have 15 Frames Per Second, it [the animation] will appear sluggish and chunky. If I have 60 FPS (or more) it will appear more smooth. For the record, the human eye can generally only see movement at 1/60th of a second (60 FPS) so anything higher and the average human eye can't really perceive the difference. Monitors and televisions refresh the screen at different timings, measured in Hz. The average is about 60Hz, but there are others like some gaming monitors which measure faster, providing for a smoother picture. Like this picture of a 60hz vs 240hz comparison.Or this example of the difference between 60hz and 120hz.Generally, to me, anything over 45 FPS looks a bit unnatural as I prefer things to sit around 30 FPS for that more "dramatic" feel. But anything beneath 30 FPS and you're going to start noticing problems. A good example is "PC Lag" which is more of a massive framerate dip from performance rather than actual Network lag. Lag is often misconstrued as there's two different forms: Input Lag and Network Lag, but that's a conversation for another time. Again. Humans can definitely perceive the difference in smoothness far beyond 60 fps.
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