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Cyrius Li-Moody wrote:

Days later and I still don't like the concept of this proposed progression system for pretty much every reason people have posted. I'm definitely getting the classic CCP Dust Development vibe of "we're going to do what we want on this with the illusion of feedback."

The current skill system we have works to a certain extent but has it's obvious problems. 1/3/5 is bad. Items should be unlocked at 1 and every point after should provide a bonus. Why is this difficult?

The idea that "there's too much choice" is simply silly. Yes, at first there is a bit too much choice but this can be remedied by a certification system similar to eve's. It can give you an idea of a "vanilla" role and you can go from there.

You guys seem so ridiculously deadset on the idea that your players are idiots and it's insulting. Part of the biggest problem of NPE is that they don't know where to put their SP to make a decent build and also that weapons are incredibly imbalanced.

We want depth and customization, not progression on rails until you hit end game. Stop trying to reinvent the progression and just fix the problems the current system has and make sure weapons and suits are balanced properly.


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 28 post(s)
XxGhazbaranxX The New Age Outlaws Proficiency V. 1312	Posted - 2014.05.15 09:59:00 - [1] - Quote The reason that dust was not as popular as other fps was that there was not a good npe to teach the core mechanics. Anyone that played dust and left was not of the difficulties of the skill system but the dificulty of having to play against less than balanced mechanics at one point or another. I feel that new devs are trying to leave their mark by making something new but tbh, and i will be very sincere, some of the things posted on the initital post sounded borderline arrogant. A mistake devs at CCP shanghai did was exactly that. Arrogance in the face of facts or publuc oppinion. Thinking they where right and not listening to the community. Adding to that, saying that legion will not be eve is insulting to the eve community in general. The game has lasted years beyond what many mainstream and easy games have lasted but.... The difficulty of EvE has nothing to do with its skill system either making me believe that legion is getting its skilltree done on a basis of misunderstaning and misguided belief that it is the culprit for dusts flaws. If the skilltree in dust ever had flaws it was that the devs dealing with it also had a poor understanding of it and implemented a broken 1/3/5 system that never really existed in eve online hence doing a feeble attempt at something they didnt fully understand. I am not giving any feedback towards this new system since, after reading the initial post, i am completely convinved that you, CCP Z, will do what you want up to the exyent you are permitted, as showed by the initial post and those following it. Plasma Cannon Advocate Dust 514 Survivor
XxGhazbaranxX The New Age Outlaws Proficiency V. 1312	Posted - 2014.05.15 10:06:00 - [2] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: CCP Z wrote: Ulysses Knapse wrote: I strongly suggest that EVE: Legion adopt a progression system that mirrors EVE Online. I don't see why not. And I am strongly working doing the opposite for the reasons stated 20 times in this thread :) We are saying that that's a bad idea, you know, the people who has been attracted to your game? If it aint broke dont fix it... Plasma Cannon Advocate Dust 514 Survivor
XxGhazbaranxX The New Age Outlaws Proficiency V. 1312	Posted - 2014.05.15 11:06:00 - [3] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: XxGhazbaranxX wrote: Godin Thekiller wrote: CCP Z wrote: Ulysses Knapse wrote: I strongly suggest that EVE: Legion adopt a progression system that mirrors EVE Online. I don't see why not. And I am strongly working doing the opposite for the reasons stated 20 times in this thread :) We are saying that that's a bad idea, you know, the people who has been attracted to your game? If it aint broke dont fix it... Well the system is broke (1/3/5 system for the skills with no bonuses. and forced skills with no bonuses that don't unlock anything). But it is a hell of a lot better than the new one (in not just my eyes, but most eyes). So, I say amen to that. The dust system is broken because it was never implemented correctly. It was copy pasted from eve and then butchered to be incoherent and inconsistent. Devs never listened when we gave feedback about dead skills but they still gave us a hardy amount of dead skill that now leads to the inevitable decay of what could have been a great game. Legion is not making any strides forward by scrapping a system that was botched. Taking dust as an example for the eve system is wrong.... I dont feel that there is enough kniwledge of the eve skill system in the devs mind. Ive played eve for 5 years and dustSince chromo and there where many thing that where simply inconsistent with new eden in general. This is a mistake... Change for the sake of change in my opinion. Plasma Cannon Advocate Dust 514 Survivor
XxGhazbaranxX The New Age Outlaws Proficiency V. 1319	Posted - 2014.05.15 20:28:00 - [4] - Quote The skill system was never an issue. Its flaws came from the poor implementation done in dust since they copy pasted the system from eve and then broke it. Wanting to change the skill tree system is wrong period. I have to also add that working close to a CPM that ni longer represents or understands the community is also wrong. They where chosen for a term and that term is done. If you need feedback a new CPM must be chosen first to really represent what the commuminity wants. Let me be clear, this is not a personal attack on the cpm but i feel there are player that are a lot more knowledgable and active on the game than them. Out of all the problems in dust, the skill tree system is not one of them. Plasma Cannon Advocate Dust 514 Survivor
XxGhazbaranxX The New Age Outlaws Proficiency V. 1320	Posted - 2014.05.15 20:31:00 - [5] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: So I ask again: How is restricting players for newcomers and/or idiots a better idea than keeping everything free and explaining it all? This Plasma Cannon Advocate Dust 514 Survivor
XxGhazbaranxX The New Age Outlaws Proficiency V. 1328	Posted - 2014.05.16 19:22:00 - [6] - Quote Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: Days later and I still don't like the concept of this proposed progression system for pretty much every reason people have posted. I'm definitely getting the classic CCP Dust Development vibe of "we're going to do what we want on this with the illusion of feedback." The current skill system we have works to a certain extent but has it's obvious problems. 1/3/5 is bad. Items should be unlocked at 1 and every point after should provide a bonus. Why is this difficult? The idea that "there's too much choice" is simply silly. Yes, at first there is a bit too much choice but this can be remedied by a certification system similar to eve's. It can give you an idea of a "vanilla" role and you can go from there. You guys seem so ridiculously deadset on the idea that your players are idiots and it's insulting. Part of the biggest problem of NPE is that they don't know where to put their SP to make a decent build and also that weapons are incredibly imbalanced. We want depth and customization, not progression on rails until you hit end game. Stop trying to reinvent the progression and just fix the problems the current system has and make sure weapons and suits are balanced properly. This... Plasma Cannon Advocate Dust 514 Survivor