Loved this. I agree completely.

I'm sure that someone would point out that using a progression system designed for a FTP game of a different genre wouldn't work on a subscription based ga.......

Hang on a minute

The skillback booster idea is not what you think. Here, take a look at this link that originally brought it up.

https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=86041&find=unread

This basically allows you to remove SP from an unwanted skill book but at a pace equal to how you passively gain SP and your passive SP is disabled for the duration of the booster so you won't earn SP while removing SP. It's a fair system that appeases both the anti-respec and the pro-respec crowds.

Interestingly enough, there appeared to be quite a number of pro-respec folks who don't like this idea.

I like this idea. Keep in mind that I'm well known for hating respecs in general. That says something.

Hold that thought until we see the work that CCP Z will show us.

It's less to do with immersion and more to do with discouraging FOTM chasers.

In that case, it should be fine as long as you have to put in the effort (not just initially but every now and then). I guess I misread it originally. Sorry about that.

I happen to question them because we know nothing substantial about this research other than the claim of it's existence and the assertion that the proposed system is a sensible response to its findings. Yes, the current system isn't perfect but that doesn't mean that the proposed system is the only, let alone optimal, alternative.

We have no idea what they've been looking for, we don't know how they decided to look, we don't know what they've found and, most critically, we don't know how their findings ended up informing the proposed design other than the blunt assertion that people cannot handle the current system.

This is important because, as several others have pointed out, assuming the research was sound and accepting CCP Z's et al. stated conclusion still doesn't tell us why a visual guiding frame (ISIS) wrapped around the current system, or really anything else that doesn't change the actual progression on any fundamental level, wouldn't work

Also well elaborated in multiple posts is the fact that central concepts such as "no respecs" being the default position, players having full freedom of their skill choices without being soft-locked into arbitrary roles and the full distinction between your character and whatever gear he might be using at any given time are discarded, seemingly, without further consideration of their inherent place within the existing universe that is New Eden.

Based on that. The proposed changes require some prior justification that goes beyond "95% of the people don't get it". Providing insight as to what this research is all about would be a reasonable first step.

Edit: Yes I get and agree with your overall call for some civility and appreciation. Yes I am deliberately confrontational because getting some info on why CCP Z chose the proposed design is vital in My opinion.

Since we're on the topic of Progression and it's a very hot topic from the looks of it, I have a proposal that CCP Z should read up on.

Project Legion Skill Progression Proposal - By Maken Tosch

It's probably not as elaborate as others have posted, but it's a proposal that I feel needs attention, particularly CCP Z's. It would be nice to compare our ideas to see how much of us are on the same page. Also, my proposal comes with a twist. Hope you like it.

If you want my .02 isk... you shouldn't be the one who has to send all those mails!

The complexity of the current progression system is, IMO, less of a problem than that the NPE does virtually nothing to explain it to new players, passing the burden on to people like you. Of course we appreciate you for it, but the problem is that it's necessary in the first place.

If all CCP changed was the progression system, you'd still have to send out mails to every new D-UNI member explaining it. The mails would be different, yes, and there may be fewer of them, but the burden would still be on you to do it. If CCP instead focused on making a great NPE and explaining all that info that you so painstakingly mail everyone, I think more people would understand the progression system (however complex it was) and we wouldn't have this problem.

The universally acknowledged problem is that people don't understand the progression system. But players can't be blamed for that when CCP does such a terrible job teaching them right off the bat. You yourself have shown without doubt that when someone is there to teach a newbie about the game they stick around longer. But only those that join D-UNI or another training corp get that instruction.

TL;DR - Make a comprehensive NPE that teaches the progression system to those that need it, and then show me new data on retention and universal understanding - I bet it will be higher, and it'll give people like Dennie less work too!

It isn't "as broken" as it seems. That part you are correct. But it still is broken regardless. It's not just the NPE (or lack of it in this case) that's the problem. Parts of the skill tree are absolutely useless.

1. Unlocking items only at levels 1, 3, and 5 results in some skill books having wasted SP on levels 2 and 4. Take a look at Active Scanner Operation as one example. Also, Dropsuit Command levels 4 and 5 are pointless as they don't unlock anything else after level 3. Even if it did unlock more items, there is a major problem brought up by my next point.

2. Some skill books don't give bonuses at all and only exist to unlock more skill books. This is wasteful in terms of SP. Gallente Light Frame for example only unlocks Gallente Light Frames suits but these suits don't offer any bonuses and they are more expensive than their role-based counterparts (WTF?). They exist only as stepping stones which only gets in the way and doesn't really show anything to the player about the suit in terms of its benefits and intended role.

So even if you implemented a proper NPE system, it doesn't address the two issues I just brought up.

https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2169542#post2169542