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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 28 post(s) |
Sarus Rambo
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156
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Posted - 2014.05.16 17:04:00 -
[1] - Quote
Giant post incoming:
The progression system described sounds pretty terrible honestly. I've seen it described perfectly as a "WoW" like skill tree. Yes this is stupid easy to understand for new people, but it lacks any sort of complexity and depth. Does EvE box you into only using a certain weapon for a certain ship? No. You can fly a Battleship with Reps and small turrets if you want. Progression should be up to the player, and they should make their own decisions on what to be, you shouldn't make it for them. You need to take many more queues from EvE, not move farther away from it.
My vision:
Suits:
Two tiers of suits per class of suit, mirroring Eves tech 1 and 2 system. Like in Eve, Tech 2 would be about 2x more expensive, and give the player advanced capabilities in some areas, while stifling the other areas. Basically turning the dial up on the strengths and weaknesses of the tech 1 suit itself. You pay for the greater strength in the area you excel, but still have to pay a whole lot more for it. The strength of the tech 2 suit and its cost would be directly proportional to the advantage it gives the player. If a tech 2 suit beats a equally skilled player in a basic suit 5/1 times, it needs to be 5 times the cost. That's ISK balance.
Battles:
This lobby stuff is stupid. The original idea that was pitched oh so many years ago was to have a large maps. You even see how some maps are connected. These would be giant districts that people connect to battle in and leave once they are over, or even when they aren't over. Pushing forward and back on a much larger scale, yet still small enough to make a difference later. This needs to be realized, and a matchmaking system isn't really the way to go. Progression should be able getting cool stuff that isn't just better then the stuff a noob gets initially, it should be about flavor and choice.
Weapons + Gear:
All this stuff needs to matter and be relevant. There should be no such thing as a direct upgrade, and modules need to be balanced based on effective value. Gear should have the same tech 1 and 2 system as suits, with tech 2 gear having the same ratio of advantages vs drawbacks as tech 1 gear.
NPC interaction:
This ties into the Battlefield cleanup interaction. Once a district is taken, there should be a period of time that people can go and salvage and fight NPC drones to get salvage from the previous battle. There also should be specific drone controlled planets always open for NPC interaction and player interaction.
Passive ISK Generation:
Ive heard talk of industry in Dust for a long time. I dont think it really fits. If you want to build stuff, play EvE. Game item production already exists in a whole level of complexity there. The drone cleanup idea introduces a passive generation of ISK however. Instead of going to a planet, you should be able to buy drones and set them up to be sent to the planets of your choosing once a battle their has been completed. Your drones would be some of the drones, perhaps more powerful versions of the drones, people fight in their PVE salvaging operations. It would be a whole new dimension of PVE, considering you are still be destroying something player owned.
Player market:
Tie in with EvE on a small scale. Eve players should be able to sell Mercs all their gear. all production of gear should be produced EvE manufacturing side, then sold to Mercs. Mercs should only have access to this gear, and should be able to also sell this on an open market to other Dust Mercs
TL;DR: Make this game more like first person EvE with guns, and not first person WoW with guns.
This sums up 100% of the forum posts after Fanfest 2014.
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Sarus Rambo
Direct Action Resources
157
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Posted - 2014.05.16 17:49:00 -
[2] - Quote
Alaika Arbosa wrote:I've heard that it will not be done, but I really think that you should just copy pasta the Eve Skills setup for Legion.
IMHO, it is a mistake to do otherwise.
I am not saying that It should be an exact mirror, just that it is similar enough in Dust now and it should stay this way for Legion.
If anything, you should make it more like Eve (include Leadership, Social and Trade skill trees).
I agree with this. I think since the number scales we are using create a large disparity between new and old players, like for example 25% more health or damage, all these values need to be severely reduce. I don't care if someone has something unlocked that I don't have. I don't like when someone who is clearly less skilled then wins a fight because they are 50% more powerful than me due to skill points.
This sums up 100% of the forum posts after Fanfest 2014.
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Sarus Rambo
Direct Action Resources
157
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Posted - 2014.05.16 19:09:00 -
[3] - Quote
Unit-775 wrote:
waiting for :
we have to pay for unlocking skill nodes or trees
Well if this happened then no one would play the game honestly. Holding parts of a game hostage is not good marketing. and only pisses people off. Single use vanity items are really where its at. TF2 is a great example of a free to play game that doesn't block content, and makes ridiculous money on vanity items and pay to not wait items. TOR is a great example of how not to do free to play, barring people from lots of features until they pony up the dough. These are both better than paying to win schemes though.
This sums up 100% of the forum posts after Fanfest 2014.
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Sarus Rambo
Direct Action Resources
157
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Posted - 2014.05.16 19:19:00 -
[4] - Quote
Alaika Arbosa wrote:
Only part of this post that I disagree with is the part about PIG (Passive Isk Generation). There should be 0 PIG, all income generation should be Active.
You have a lot of people looking for some sort of manufacturing or something. I'm really not against passive ISK as long as the ISK per hour is terrible. It should be equivalent to like 1 or 2 game ISK payouts per day. Say it takes 12 hours for a drone to complete its salvage run, and you only have the "bandwidth" to have 2 drones working at once. There are various ways to limit it, and I think it would be very satisfying to kill someone else's drone that they payed for and took the time to send to a specific planet (It should obviously let you know when you did this).
Being able to open it up to fitting the drones you send to would be really cool. maybe you want one that sucks at defending itself but makes more money. Or one that is a beast but makes less money. That would be cool.
Maken Tosch wrote:
Agreed. There is no game that I can think of today that gives you passive income generation.
EvE Online? If Dust or Legion ever got a player market, you would see passive income generation there as well.
This sums up 100% of the forum posts after Fanfest 2014.
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Sarus Rambo
Direct Action Resources
157
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Posted - 2014.05.16 19:26:00 -
[5] - Quote
Cyrius Li-Moody wrote:
You guys seem so ridiculously deadset on the idea that your players are idiots and it's insulting. Part of the biggest problem of NPE is that they don't know where to put their SP to make a decent build and also that weapons are incredibly imbalanced.
This is really the true problem with the current progression. That and skills just for the sake of skills. Each one should do something other then unlock more stuff.
Cyrius Li-Moody wrote:
We want depth and customization, not progression on rails until you hit end game. Stop trying to reinvent the progression and just fix the problems the current system has and make sure weapons and suits are balanced properly.
Exactly.
This sums up 100% of the forum posts after Fanfest 2014.
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Sarus Rambo
Direct Action Resources
158
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Posted - 2014.05.16 19:30:00 -
[6] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:
Corp taxes, Planetary Interaction, POCO taxes (assuming you control the POCO), and tycoon-level market trading hardly qualify as passive income generation. All of them require player effort in some form in addition to maintaining that effort. I have been playing Eve Online since 2008 and I still do. There is absolutely no passive income generation in Eve in the sense that you do nothing to earn it.
Ok, then read my original post. I basically state you need to setup everything, send drones out to get you salvage, and also putting them at risk of being destroying by players. Also stated the possibility to add fitting options to these drones to give someone more interaction and choice.
If we are defining passive income as doing nothing for ISK, how is this passive then?
(My definition would be you do something in game to setup something, leave, come back to ISK).
This sums up 100% of the forum posts after Fanfest 2014.
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Sarus Rambo
Direct Action Resources
158
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Posted - 2014.05.16 19:46:00 -
[7] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:
In that case, it should be fine as long as you have to put in the effort (not just initially but every now and then). I guess I misread it originally. Sorry about that.
Lol ok, no problem.
I think that idea is very EvE like. Very Risk vs Reward oriented, with plenty of choice thrown in there.
This sums up 100% of the forum posts after Fanfest 2014.
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Sarus Rambo
Direct Action Resources
158
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Posted - 2014.05.16 20:20:00 -
[8] - Quote
Cyrius Li-Moody wrote:
Rather than changing an ENTIRE system you just add a user interface. You change the way the user sees the information rather than hard locking them to a linear path. Also this adds a trophy like system to the game through certification which is good.
CCP, this is important. Removing choice because its "scary" is simply silly. You need to better guide people in making informed decisions, like the ISIS tree inside EvE. What I believe the concern would be in this system is defined roles. This is a major problem in Dust, as you see scouts with more health then assaults, and Heavies with rail rifles. How do you define the role of a suit when there is no on rails progression tree?
My answer would be to look at exactly how EvE online does this. CCP has done an amazing job at making almost everything in EvE relevant and useful. What needs to happen is to keep the weird options like brick tanking a scout, or carrying a rail rifle sentinel, but to make them really dumb options. Incentive roles without boxing them in. There is a ton of stuff messed up about Dust for the simple reason that there is no proper incentives in place. We have seen a small step in the right direction with 1.8, but there really needs to be a large overhaul which probably wont happen in Dust.
"Teach a man to fish, and feed him for life. Shove fish down a mans throat for life, and he will grow to resent you."
This sums up 100% of the forum posts after Fanfest 2014.
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Sarus Rambo
Direct Action Resources
159
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Posted - 2014.05.16 20:40:00 -
[9] - Quote
Alaika Arbosa wrote:Sarus Rambo wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:
In that case, it should be fine as long as you have to put in the effort (not just initially but every now and then). I guess I misread it originally. Sorry about that.
Lol ok, no problem. I think that idea is very EvE like. Very Risk vs Reward oriented, with plenty of choice thrown in there. Also, nothing should be pure Wallet ticks. It should give you a commodity which provides Isk through its sale on the player market.
Well the drones would basically salvage. The drones aren't salvaging ISK out in a battlefield.
This sums up 100% of the forum posts after Fanfest 2014.
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