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Aeon Amadi wrote:

Maken Tosch wrote:

Aeon Amadi wrote:

Cyrius Li-Moody wrote:

The current skill system we have works to a certain extent but has it's obvious problems. 1/3/5 is bad. Items should be unlocked at 1 and every point after should provide a bonus. Why is this difficult?

Guess you were so angry you completely missed the part where they practically described the system being exactly like this.

That's usually what happens in a 23-page thread. Roll

EDIT: Woops! 24 pages now. Twisted

EDIT2: My only concern about the new progression system is that I would be forced into training up a suit I don't want for a weapon that I like. That to me is an even bigger SP sink than what Dust currently has.

Not really. Guy said that it would be really easy to get stuff and that most of your SP investment in the early-game would be spent on unlocks, not so much bonuses. I like to think that once you get to the racial bit (since it's Academy > Frame > Role > Racial > Specialization) you're focusing more on fine-tuning and turning your dials than you are setting everything up. Making your playstyle more powerful as opposed to getting stuff for it.

What with a system where you don't have to get Dropsuit Command 3 > Amarr Heavy 3 > Amarr Sentinel 1, it seems like it'd be a hell of a lot easier to blaze through to the suit you want and then focus on all the extra stuff. I know a lot of people are saying that "modules/weapons shouldn't be locked behind roles" but honestly, I can't see much of a reason you'd need Profile Dampeners and Myrofibril Stimulants on a Sentinel xD

Big problem I see right now is that people are so angry, they're not doing their research/reading to find the answers. I mean, there is a "First Dev Post" button in the upper right and then you can just click on the blue banners to go to the next one =P


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 28 post(s)
Cyrius Li-Moody 0uter.Heaven 5332	Posted - 2014.05.14 08:12:00 - [1] - Quote CCP Saberwing wrote: Also, I recommend keeping this discussion to that of a "high-level". Discussing specific attributes (such as the exact PG/CPU values of certain things) is probably too granular at this point. CCP Z is currently working on re-vamping the entire Skill Tree and overall progression within Project Legion. Numbers aren't important. Their location on the tree is what is important. Honestly talks of progression are kind of moot if the eve style fitting/customization portion of this game changes. We're basing our knowledge of our known and used system of customization. Youtuber. Your friendly neighborhood whiskey-fueled merc.
Cyrius Li-Moody 0uter.Heaven 5332	Posted - 2014.05.14 08:25:00 - [2] - Quote Also... respec? I hope this will be a very limited option with some sort of drawback. With a respec option that is easily available we will be stuck in the current situation that 1.8 has left us in: a sea of scouts and heavies because everyone got respecs. People will just endlessly respec into FOTM because this game will likely not be balanced for quite some time just as Dust is not balanced. There is importance to persistence for many many reasons. Youtuber. Your friendly neighborhood whiskey-fueled merc.
Cyrius Li-Moody 0uter.Heaven 5342	Posted - 2014.05.16 18:47:00 - [3] - Quote Days later and I still don't like the concept of this proposed progression system for pretty much every reason people have posted. I'm definitely getting the classic CCP Dust Development vibe of "we're going to do what we want on this with the illusion of feedback." The current skill system we have works to a certain extent but has it's obvious problems. 1/3/5 is bad. Items should be unlocked at 1 and every point after should provide a bonus. Why is this difficult? The idea that "there's too much choice" is simply silly. Yes, at first there is a bit too much choice but this can be remedied by a certification system similar to eve's. It can give you an idea of a "vanilla" role and you can go from there. You guys seem so ridiculously deadset on the idea that your players are idiots and it's insulting. Part of the biggest problem of NPE is that they don't know where to put their SP to make a decent build and also that weapons are incredibly imbalanced. We want depth and customization, not progression on rails until you hit end game. Youtuber. Your friendly neighborhood whiskey-fueled merc.
Cyrius Li-Moody 0uter.Heaven 5351	Posted - 2014.05.16 20:06:00 - [4] - Quote Iskandar Zul Karnain wrote: The more I read through this thread the more I become fearful that CCP Z is going to flatten Dust and dumb everything down for the sake of a few idiots who couldn't figure out how to use the skill tree. I understand that improving the NPE is critical. I do not believe that in order to improve the NPE that we need to lobotomize DUST. Would it be possible to implement an open New Eden friendly skill tree with an optional 'safety' for new players, whereby their SP choices are guided in a certain direction(s) up unto the point at which the player decides he or she is competent enough to make informed SP decision on their own? Essentially we could superficially create a class system but still allow those willing to spend their SP as they see fit. Anyone have any thoughts on a system like this? This can be done through user interface rather than forcing a player through a progression on rails. Eve has a certification system (ui) that shows you the skills needed to get "certified" in something. There you can see what it takes to fill a vanilla role. So you could have our current node based view, the list view, and a certification view. Lets say for example you really want to train into scout but dont know what to train. An experienced player will know that he needs to train precision, dampening, range, biotics. He would be able to find these either as nodes on a skill tree or in the skill list. For a newer player they could refer to the certification interface which has a more linear representation of what you need for a role. For example: Infiltrator Scout Certification Minmatar Scout Dropsuits 3 --> Precision 3 --> Dampening 5 --> Biotics 3 --> Cloak Field 3 Rather than changing an ENTIRE system you just add a user interface. You change the way the user sees the information rather than hard locking them to a linear path. Also this adds a trophy like system to the game through certification which is good. Youtuber. Your friendly neighborhood whiskey-fueled merc.
Cyrius Li-Moody 0uter.Heaven 5365	Posted - 2014.05.17 16:50:00 - [5] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: The current skill system we have works to a certain extent but has it's obvious problems. 1/3/5 is bad. Items should be unlocked at 1 and every point after should provide a bonus. Why is this difficult? Guess you were so angry you completely missed the part where they practically described the system being exactly like this. That's usually what happens in a 23-page thread. EDIT: Woops! 24 pages now. EDIT2: My only concern about the new progression system is that I would be forced into training up a suit I don't want for a weapon that I like. That to me is an even bigger SP sink than what Dust currently has. Not really. Guy said that it would be really easy to get stuff and that most of your SP investment in the early-game would be spent on unlocks, not so much bonuses. I like to think that once you get to the racial bit (since it's Academy > Frame > Role > Racial > Specialization) you're focusing more on fine-tuning and turning your dials than you are setting everything up. Making your playstyle more powerful as opposed to getting stuff for it. What with a system where you don't have to get Dropsuit Command 3 > Amarr Heavy 3 > Amarr Sentinel 1, it seems like it'd be a hell of a lot easier to blaze through to the suit you want and then focus on all the extra stuff. I know a lot of people are saying that "modules/weapons shouldn't be locked behind roles" but honestly, I can't see much of a reason you'd need Profile Dampeners and Myrofibril Stimulants on a Sentinel xD Big problem I see right now is that people are so angry, they're not doing their research/reading to find the answers. I mean, there is a "First Dev Post" button in the upper right and then you can just click on the blue banners to go to the next one =P I won't get into a argument with you but I read the post, watched the progression videos. I know they brought up tiericide. Merely echoing problems with our current system even if they've already been stated to be covered. Thanks for your concern though. Youtuber. Your friendly neighborhood whiskey-fueled merc.