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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
3243
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Posted - 2014.05.13 16:24:00 -
[31] - Quote
I think that if we try to adapt CCP ZGÇÖs item progression trees to fit the complexity and choice that veteran players are demanding, that we will get an awkward confusing system.
I have concluded that it would be better to have CCP ZGÇÖs simple and elegant system as an opt out overlay that players use be default when they start the game, but have the ability to turn off once they learn how to do so.
This way the default tree does not have to be complicated by accommodating every eventuality such as wanting to use a Shotgun on an Assault suit. You don't even have to include all the skills and items in it. Just make a tree for each of the most common roles.
When the default tree overlay system is shut off, you should gain access to a much less restrictive skill system that does not follow role progression and does not hold your hand.
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
3243
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Posted - 2014.05.13 16:35:00 -
[32] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:We're not copying eve's system unfortunately.
Dust 514 and Legion are supposed to be lower barriers of entry to the eve universe and with the setting of a shooter environment the 5 node system doesn't work for us at all as it tries to force every node to be worth something.
It is not the 5 level skills that cause a problem there, it is trying to force Item unlocks into a 5 node skill tree when there are no bonuses attached that is the problem. It is having levels in the node that have no benefit that is the problem.
If you separate items from skills, and keep the 5 levels for the skill while moving the item unlocks to a single level node system, you can come up with a system that has all the strengths of the EVE system, but works for an FPS.
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
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Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
2841
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Posted - 2014.05.13 17:31:00 -
[33] - Quote
Umm no, sorry IWS, either I'm too tired or your not very good at explaining but this sounds incredibly complicated. There are things about Z's system I like
1) Making the tree Role Specalization Centric
2) Removing the 5 levels per node system
3) Tiericde
4) Cutting the # of useless/filler nodes
With your solution I feel like your saying
If I want to skill into RRs, which are in level 3, I must have at least level 3 elsewhere.
But do I still need to progress up that tree? Do I start halfway up it or what?
I don't think Skill Systems need to be almagamated into a SINGLE tree, maintain the number of trees we have at the moment.
Then from there canabalise Z's idea into each category.
So for example for nearly 3-4 skill levels we have no factionalised suits, why not do the same with weapons and equipment.
I'd love to get my hands on a Minmatar Nanohive, designed to distribute it's nanite reserve as quickly as possible, or hybrid amarr hives, or gallante hives that provide as much healing per pulse as possible.
Looks like its back to FPS Military Shooter 56
Monkey Mac - Just another pile of discarded ashes on the battlefield!
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
3245
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Posted - 2014.05.13 17:51:00 -
[34] - Quote
Default System:
Use the Item Progression tree that CCP Z proposed. DonGÇÖt add any wild cards or any complicated hybridisation. Keep it simple. But add optional 5 level skills like leaves on the skill tree, attached to each item, that give bonuses for that item. If there are no good bonuses, donGÇÖt add leaves (skills) to that node.
Advanced System:
This would be an open list system with only sensible prerequisites. (# Items, *Skills):
#Assault Rifle
|_* Assault Rifle Operations [1 to 5]
| |__ * Assault Rile Proficiency [1 to 5]
|_* Rapid Reload [1 to 5]
|_* Power Grid efficacy [1 to 5]
|_* CPU efficacy [1 to 5]
|_# Tactical Assault Rifle
|_# Breach Assault Rifle
|_# Burst Assault Rifle
#Nano Hive
|_# Compact Nano Hive
|_# Triage Nano Hive
# Medium Frame Dropsuit
.|_# Gallente Medium Frame Dropsuit
.. |_ # Gallente Assault Dropsuit
.. | |__* Gallente Assault Dropsuit Operation [1 to 5]
.. |_ # Gallente Logistics Dropsuit
.. | |__* Gallente Logistics Dropsuit Operation [1 to 5]
* Engineering [1 to 5]
* Electronics [1 to 5]
* Hacking [1 to 5]
* Profile Dampening [1 to 5]
There is only so much I can do to draw a picture using ASKII text and without being able to use tab spacing, but that is the general idea. Instead of a few big trees, it would have a lot of little bushes.
Also, the number of Skill Points needed to unlock an Item Node should be proportional to the Meta Level of the item. So while skilling into the Sniper Rifle node would unlock access to both the Tactical Sniper Rifle node and the Charged Sniper Rifle node, unlocking the Charged Sniper Rifle should require more points than unlocking the Tactical Sniper Rifle, because the Charged Sniper rifle will be a higher Meta Level than the Tactical.
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
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Natu Nobilis
DUST BRASIL S.A
Caps and Mercs
472
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Posted - 2014.05.13 18:41:00 -
[35] - Quote
Tiercide has been under discussion since 2011.
What amuzes me is that a lot of the dicussions we-¦re having here, were alrady discussed during the beta, were not implemented, and now instead of going with the feedback, they decide a while different way.
At least present the proposed way in a manner we can give feedback instead of conjecturing and go in circles.
Every skill should give a bonus to something
Every LvL 3 should unlock something bigger
Those who specialize in Lvl 5 are trading time for efficiency, and instead of using 4 weapons use a really good one.
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
14999
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Posted - 2014.05.13 19:10:00 -
[36] - Quote
SponkSponkSponk wrote:ZDub 303 wrote:
My only point of feedback atm would be to design the system so that things are easy to get into and hard to master, just like in eve.
That's fairly easy to do. e.g. Standard Assault Rifles may cost 1000 space-credits Advanced may cost 10000 Prototype may cost 100 000.
Tiers are dead under CCP Z's model .
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist
\\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
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Vell0cet
Dirt Nap Squad
Dirt Nap Squad.
1965
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Posted - 2014.05.13 19:19:00 -
[37] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:We're not copying eve's system unfortunately.
Dust 514 and Legion are supposed to be lower barriers of entry to the eve universe and with the setting of a shooter environment the 5 node system doesn't work for us at all as it tries to force every node to be worth something.
This is a catastrophic mistake. The skill system isn't a barrier to entry, the poor UI and absolute abomination of a tutorial is. As is throwing new players into matches with Vets so quickly.
Is the CPM fighting this tooth-and-nail? Or are you guys just nodding? CCP Shanghai cannot successfully compete in the "assessible shooter" category against publishers with much more experience, much bigger teams, and huge budgets. If it tries to expand the niche of a deep thinking-man's shooter I think it can do very well. There is no competition in that market, and there are a lot of players that want a deep FPS/RPG experience.
Best PvE idea ever!
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Vell0cet
Dirt Nap Squad
Dirt Nap Squad.
1965
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Posted - 2014.05.13 19:21:00 -
[38] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Tiers are dead under CCP Z's model .
Is CCP Z the fountainhead of all these terrible ideas or just the mouthpiece?
Best PvE idea ever!
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