DUST Search - Can we get more infomation from CCP Z about the skill progression

George Moros wrote:

Kevall Longstride wrote:

I understand peoples concerns but I've felt for the longest time that Dust's skill tree is as it is to satisfy Eve players rather than become its own thing.

While aesthetically and lore wise the game should be very close to New Eden, I'm concerned that being too much a slave as to what has come before can handicap and stifle the games identity. Dust/Legion should be its own thing in the New Eden Universe. Simply doing something one way because Eve does it like that is the wrong way to think about it.

We must be prepared to examine other ways to do things if the result is better progression for new players while allowing vets to do it their way.

There are several things EVE does very good, which are also perfectly translatable to Legion. Skill system is one of them. Therefore, it makes perfect sense to use them, rather than invent something "new" (as if roles, and skills which simply unlock gear qualify as something new). Also, retaining the same character-based core mechanics on both (or even all three) games which take place in New Eden does help in creating immersion, and in quicker adaptation from one game to another. People playing EVE, who wish to try Legion (or vice-versa) will have less trouble doing so if core mechanics stay as similar as possible.

But that's not all. CCP Z's presentation raised several other questions regarding the project's orientation and targeted audience. For instance, why on earth would anyone think that the ability to look at your lower-tier dropsuits in your closet is better than having actual use of all of them?


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 3 post(s)
Natu Nobilis DUST BRASIL S.A Caps and Mercs 455	Posted - 2014.05.12 01:58:00 - [1] - Quote ISIS system can educate people into the habilities and requirements of each role. Make skills meaningful instead of the 1-3-5 Basic-Advanced-Prototype crap. Every skill level should count for something. What is the fear of loosing the damn suit? The economic needs of new players is one of the major social glues that forms EVE online! Entire groups of players and alliances dedicated to train/fund them, to form social bonds, to make FRIENDS that outgrow the game, all this connected by the necessity of the younglings due to economic restrictions. People that form bonds ingame stick around, and if you give too many options that make solo play independent from the universe, it may be a game, but not a New Eden one. Even in high-sec a pimped plex player can be ganked during his solo mission, and that is good! Why should a Duster have no consequence for their actions, since ony part of their equip is destructible? And a Quafe suit is only special because of it-¦s scarcity. I don-¦t think a Hobo Hotel on the field should be more important than the meaning of the actions and consequences in it. There-¦s plenty of monetization that doesn-¦t involve dumbing down things. Like the 13b Caracal Sometimes it appears that Dust and EVE are brothers going different ways having New Eden as a mother and using it as an excuse of relationship. If CCP wants to do a commercial fps, fine, but don-¦t pretend it-¦s a new eden game.
Natu Nobilis DUST BRASIL S.A Caps and Mercs 456	Posted - 2014.05.12 13:42:00 - [2] - Quote George Moros wrote: Kevall Longstride wrote: I understand peoples concerns but I've felt for the longest time that Dust's skill tree is as it is to satisfy Eve players rather than become its own thing. While aesthetically and lore wise the game should be very close to New Eden, I'm concerned that being too much a slave as to what has come before can handicap and stifle the games identity. Dust/Legion should be its own thing in the New Eden Universe. Simply doing something one way because Eve does it like that is the wrong way to think about it. We must be prepared to examine other ways to do things if the result is better progression for new players while allowing vets to do it their way. There are several things EVE does very good, which are also perfectly translatable to Legion. Skill system is one of them. Therefore, it makes perfect sense to use them, rather than invent something "new" (as if roles, and skills which simply unlock gear qualify as something new). Also, retaining the same character-based core mechanics on both (or even all three) games which take place in New Eden does help in creating immersion, and in quicker adaptation from one game to another. People playing EVE, who wish to try Legion (or vice-versa) will have less trouble doing so if core mechanics stay as similar as possible. But that's not all. CCP Z's presentation raised several other questions regarding the project's orientation and targeted audience. For instance, why on earth would anyone think that the ability to look at your lower-tier dropsuits in your closet is better than having actual use of all of them? I have a 111 milion SP char in EVE Online than can fly whatever the hell she wants, including supercarriers and a titan, but do i fly those? NO. It-¦s not a money issue it-¦s simply because i love playing with my kickass dramiel frigate or my blaster falcon cruiser. I CAN fly bigger things, this doesn-¦t mean i WANT to fly them. (CTA ready however) I LOVE my old stuff and the Progression presentation got me chills when i saw that CCP Z-¦s vision is of a generic sci-fi game dumbed down (not accessible dumbed down, two different things) for the masses triying to emulate WoW or Diablo III character/item systems and with this, whenever i hear "Market" will be implemented, i listen "Auction house". If you guys want to do a commercial viable game like farmville, candycrush, call of futuristic warfarefield 2048 or something, again, no problem, a company got to make their ISK. But please don-¦t put a label of New Eden on it, because it isn-¦t.
Natu Nobilis DUST BRASIL S.A Caps and Mercs 457	Posted - 2014.05.12 14:19:00 - [3] - Quote Vrain Matari wrote: Was thinking that there is a viable way to synthesize the two positions we're seeing expressed here: Training Templates. A new merc, after appropriate quality NPE time, is given a choice from a selection of training templates, which are simple overlays of the raw skilltree that highlights the skills that form CCP Z's 'Role Trees'. The Training templates could be hard, soft or merely informational: Hard Templates would constrain what you could train and in what order, effectively 'greying out' other skills. Soft Templates would give a "You are choosing a skill outside or you training template, do you wish to proceed?" warning to the merc but still leave them with full volition. Informational templates would do nothing at all but colour-highlight skills in the template. That's it, really. We could add some quality-of-life features and conditionals, e.g a user-selection for template 'hardness(Hard, Soft, Infomational, None)', and also that new mercs would have to complete one 'Hard Template' before unlocking the ability to set a hardness of their choice. Iterating further, we could give players the ability to write their own templates and export them, so for example a new recruit could be given the 'Corp Bootcamp' template, etc., or we could download 'Fox Gaden's first 2 million SP' template ;) They already have the tools, sometimes it appears they don-¦t know or simply don-¦t like them. ISIS Certificates
Natu Nobilis DUST BRASIL S.A Caps and Mercs 458	Posted - 2014.05.12 15:13:00 - [4] - Quote Leeroy Gannarsein wrote: Hopefully they'll give both a go during the beta... see which one works out better. (Hopefully that'll be the DUST method...) The Dust method is still lacking (1-3-5 Basic-Advanced-Proto), skills that don-¦t give any bonus and are only pre-req and counterintuitive... More EVE style skill, tiercide, NPE, and access instead of dumbed down experience.
Natu Nobilis DUST BRASIL S.A Caps and Mercs 472	Posted - 2014.05.13 18:53:00 - [5] - Quote If Dust 514 had a damn PvE mode to generate random missions, i-¦m willing to bet a beer that it would be populated as hell. I play the god damn GTA Online missions that are the same thing over and over again just because it-¦s fun to play with friends. They are upgrading the game, i-¦m waiting for the Heist mode, and while it doesn-¦t arrive, i don-¦t ***** about it, i play more missions and do "pvp". I have a shitload of entretainment while i wait for upgrades. I can-¦t overstate how important PvE is for a multiplayer game to consolidate and gather playerbase while it tweaks it-¦s features.