| Pages: 1 2 :: [one page] |
|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Joseph Ridgeson
WarRavens
Final Resolution.
1737
   |
Posted - 2014.05.08 12:27:00 -
[1] - Quote
Here are some of the scary things that need to be addressed in further details:
1. Every Dropsuit in Legion is a BPO. The rationale is "not being able to run your best dropsuit that you earned is stupid; you should always run it, be proud you earned it without worrying about the cost." Okay but what about my Raven, Sever, Dragonfly, and Drensuits? They are special and were "worth $120" because they never run out. Now they are not special in that aspect of never running out. What happens to them? As much as I love the look of the bad ass white camo on the Raven, it wasn't worth a 10 dollar skin. Answer: Still too early to tell.
2. SP. Legion has a totally different Skill Tree than DUST to the point that the two are antithetical. Instead of the 7 unique nodes (Dropsuit Command, Dropsuit Upgrades, Vehicle Command, Vehicle Upgardes, Turret Operation, and Corporation Management), there are instead just going to be Roles , Assault, Heavy, Logistics, Scout, Pilot probably, that will branch out from there. This means that Caldari Logistics 5 with Nanocircuitry 5 and Repair Tool Operation 5 might just be Logistics-Support-Caldari. It is supposedly going to be "days to a week to unlock everything" meaning that throwing someone with 40 million SP into the game is going to a master of everything rather than what it is now and only be prototype in about 4-6 Suits/Roles. Another point: I have as much SP as I do because I spent money. If I lose SP I am losing money that I "invested" in my character. Answer: We will transfer everything where applicable." So does this mean that if Dropsuit Core Upgrades doesn't exist the SP we put into them is wasted? Basically, CCP doesn't know yet.
3. AUR, I have about 24,000 spare AUR. That is 12 dollars worth of stuff. Will transfer over? Answer: "We will transfer everything where applicable." Legion is free to play so obviously some kind of microtransaction currency is needed, so it will probably transfer over fine.
4. AUR Items. I have... an embarrassing amount of AUR stuff. Lots and lots of Boosters, a grotesque amount AUR dropsuits, loads of weapons and vehicles, and seriously, millions and millions worth of SP in Boosters. With the amount my family's contributed to this game, CCP may want to consider renaming DUST 514 to "DUST 514: Brought to you by the Ridgesons." Any way, am I going to get that stuff back in Legion? Answer: "We will transfer everything where applicable." What if there are items that don't exist anymore, like melee damage mods? You could reimburse the AUR prices but I have 300 of the damned things from the Mercenary packs. What are those worth?
5. Names. Will those transfer over? Answer: "Names and corporation status will transfer."
6. Characters and accounts. Every online game uses an account to get to your characters. How is this going to work for Legion? For example, to play Joseph I get on my PSN account [email protected] and my password is Iamagulliblefool. That is PSN oriented for me to play on DUST. How is that change going to work with Legion? Will my account name stay [email protected] for me to play Joseph on Legion but isn't that account name a Sony thing? Will I just send a ticket to get this character assigned to a new account name; remember the "one account, one identity" thing for the three games? This means the unscrupulous people could easily sell their DUST 514 accounts by assigning them to a specific account during the early days of the transfer, no? Answer: CCP has not said yet.
7. That transfer. When Legion starts, will a snapshot be taken of DUST 514 and that is your progress for Legion? Answer: CCP has not said yet.
8. What features will be in Legion that are both not in DUST and are not just what was promised in DUST? Answer: CCP has not said yet.
9. Is Legion just "DUST 514 on PC"? Answer: CCP has not said yet.
Any dev want to step forth and clarify any of these points? You have got a lot of scared customers that are wondering how this process is going to work. I understand that a lot of it is "honestly we have no idea" but it really needs to be "if we knew, you would know."
"This is B.S! This is B.S! I paid money! Cash money, dollars money, cash money!"
|
|
CCP Logibro
C C P
C C P Alliance
7304
|
Posted - 2014.05.08 12:38:00 -
[2] - Quote
Joseph Ridgeson wrote:2. SP. Legion has a totally different Skill Tree than DUST to the point that the two are antithetical. Instead of the 7 unique nodes (Dropsuit Command, Dropsuit Upgrades, Vehicle Command, Vehicle Upgardes, Turret Operation, and Corporation Management), there are instead just going to be Roles , Assault, Heavy, Logistics, Scout, Pilot probably, that will branch out from there. This means that Caldari Logistics 5 with Nanocircuitry 5 and Repair Tool Operation 5 might just be Logistics-Support-Caldari. It is supposedly going to be "days to a week to unlock everything" meaning that throwing someone with 40 million SP into the game is going to a master of everything rather than what it is now and only be prototype in about 4-6 Suits/Roles. Another point: I have as much SP as I do because I spent money. If I lose SP I am losing money that I "invested" in my character. Answer: We will transfer everything where applicable." So does this mean that if Dropsuit Core Upgrades doesn't exist the SP we put into them is wasted? Basically, CCP doesn't know yet.
This one I can tackle right now. SP, not skills would transfer (doing it by skills would be silly).
CCP Logibro // Patron Saint of Logistics // Distributor of Nanites
(a¦á_a¦á)
|
|
Joseph Ridgeson
WarRavens
Final Resolution.
1737
|
Posted - 2014.05.08 12:46:00 -
[3] - Quote
CCP Logibro wrote:Joseph Ridgeson wrote:2. SP. Legion has a totally different Skill Tree than DUST to the point that the two are antithetical. Instead of the 7 unique nodes (Dropsuit Command, Dropsuit Upgrades, Vehicle Command, Vehicle Upgardes, Turret Operation, and Corporation Management), there are instead just going to be Roles , Assault, Heavy, Logistics, Scout, Pilot probably, that will branch out from there. This means that Caldari Logistics 5 with Nanocircuitry 5 and Repair Tool Operation 5 might just be Logistics-Support-Caldari. It is supposedly going to be "days to a week to unlock everything" meaning that throwing someone with 40 million SP into the game is going to a master of everything rather than what it is now and only be prototype in about 4-6 Suits/Roles. Another point: I have as much SP as I do because I spent money. If I lose SP I am losing money that I "invested" in my character. Answer: We will transfer everything where applicable." So does this mean that if Dropsuit Core Upgrades doesn't exist the SP we put into them is wasted? Basically, CCP doesn't know yet.
This one I can tackle right now. SP, not skills would transfer (doing it by skills would be silly).
So that means that a respec would happen in the transfer.
I worded the question in a crap manner now that I am reading it more closely; I only have one contact in, so there's my excuse. But with Legion's skill tree, are the number of SP we get going to be comparable? The concern I can see CCP, has a game company has, it "That guy with 34 million SP will unlock about five times as much in Legion than he could in DUST." That makes perfect sense and I am sure that is the biggest concern. However, "I have 34 million SP because I put money into boosters. If I don't have that amount, my 'investment' is lessened."
I don't see these two things being compatible unless Legion is really going to be "everyone can do everything." Is there any statement on this or is it still too early to tell? I can understand if it is because Project Legion is probably just a demo and an idea at the moment but it is still a question I gotta ask.
Thanks both to you and Saberwing for humoring this here neckbearded fat basement dweller repeatedly. ^_^
"This is B.S! This is B.S! I paid money! Cash money, dollars money, cash money!"
|
|
CCP Logibro
C C P
C C P Alliance
7304
|
Posted - 2014.05.08 12:47:00 -
[4] - Quote
Joseph Ridgeson wrote:CCP Logibro wrote:Joseph Ridgeson wrote:2. SP. Legion has a totally different Skill Tree than DUST to the point that the two are antithetical. Instead of the 7 unique nodes (Dropsuit Command, Dropsuit Upgrades, Vehicle Command, Vehicle Upgardes, Turret Operation, and Corporation Management), there are instead just going to be Roles , Assault, Heavy, Logistics, Scout, Pilot probably, that will branch out from there. This means that Caldari Logistics 5 with Nanocircuitry 5 and Repair Tool Operation 5 might just be Logistics-Support-Caldari. It is supposedly going to be "days to a week to unlock everything" meaning that throwing someone with 40 million SP into the game is going to a master of everything rather than what it is now and only be prototype in about 4-6 Suits/Roles. Another point: I have as much SP as I do because I spent money. If I lose SP I am losing money that I "invested" in my character. Answer: We will transfer everything where applicable." So does this mean that if Dropsuit Core Upgrades doesn't exist the SP we put into them is wasted? Basically, CCP doesn't know yet.
This one I can tackle right now. SP, not skills would transfer (doing it by skills would be silly). So that means that a respec would happen in the transfer. I worded the question in a crap manner now that I am reading it more closely; I only have one contact in, so there's my excuse. But with Legion's skill tree, are the number of SP we get going to be comparable? The concern I can see CCP, has a game company has, it "That guy with 34 million SP will unlock about five times as much in Legion than he could in DUST." That makes perfect sense and I am sure that is the biggest concern. However, "I have 34 million SP because I put money into boosters. If I don't have that amount, my 'investment' is lessened." I don't see these two things being compatible unless Legion is really going to be "everyone can do everything." Is there any statement on this or is it still too early to tell? I can understand if it is because Project Legion is probably just a demo and an idea at the moment but it is still a question I gotta ask. Thanks both to you and Saberwing for humoring this here neckbearded fat basement dweller repeatedly. ^_^
That's something we'll sit down and work out when we nail down the progression system, but we're not there yet. Making it fair is something we'll definitely want to do when we get there.
CCP Logibro // Patron Saint of Logistics // Distributor of Nanites
(a¦á_a¦á)
|
|
Aikuchi Tomaru
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
2577
|
Posted - 2014.05.08 13:11:00 -
[5] - Quote
CCP Logibro wrote:Joseph Ridgeson wrote:2. SP. Legion has a totally different Skill Tree than DUST to the point that the two are antithetical. Instead of the 7 unique nodes (Dropsuit Command, Dropsuit Upgrades, Vehicle Command, Vehicle Upgardes, Turret Operation, and Corporation Management), there are instead just going to be Roles , Assault, Heavy, Logistics, Scout, Pilot probably, that will branch out from there. This means that Caldari Logistics 5 with Nanocircuitry 5 and Repair Tool Operation 5 might just be Logistics-Support-Caldari. It is supposedly going to be "days to a week to unlock everything" meaning that throwing someone with 40 million SP into the game is going to a master of everything rather than what it is now and only be prototype in about 4-6 Suits/Roles. Another point: I have as much SP as I do because I spent money. If I lose SP I am losing money that I "invested" in my character. Answer: We will transfer everything where applicable." So does this mean that if Dropsuit Core Upgrades doesn't exist the SP we put into them is wasted? Basically, CCP doesn't know yet.
This one I can tackle right now. SP, not skills would transfer (doing it by skills would be silly).
What will happen to skills that are removed for now? For example Commando suits. Would these SP just become void? I mean as I got that you won't include every Dust skill in Legion.
Sign up for Caldari FW and defeat the evil Gallente Overlords!
|
Leeroy Gannarsein
Shining Flame
Amarr Empire
19
|
Posted - 2014.05.08 13:14:00 -
[6] - Quote
As I said in my thread, I don't want '40M SP', I want two years of progression (assuming 30k per day inc. login bonus and capping weekly).
Otherwise the money and time I have invested is not being rewarded.
MY ACTUAL NAME IS LORHAK
|
Joseph Ridgeson
WarRavens
Final Resolution.
1742
|
Posted - 2014.05.08 13:16:00 -
[7] - Quote
Aikuchi Tomaru wrote:CCP Logibro wrote:
This one I can tackle right now. SP, not skills would transfer (doing it by skills would be silly).
What will happen to skills that are removed for now? For example Commando suits. Would these SP just become void? I mean as I got that you won't include every Dust skill in Legion.
I am assuming that means if you have 19,383,035 SP and 2,487,360 in Caldari Commando, you will just have 19,383,035 SP in Legion.
The problem is the one I stated above. If Legion is meant to unlock things much, much faster my 34 million SP is pretty much going to have me unlocking almost everything in the game. If my 34 million SP doesn't transfer over, the money I have put in that put me at that amount of SP is lessened. It is a tough problem and, as I believe Mr. Logibro said, they are not even close to tackling it.
To the developers: please keep us informed.
"This is B.S! This is B.S! I paid money! Cash money, dollars money, cash money!"
|
Aikuchi Tomaru
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
2577
|
Posted - 2014.05.08 13:18:00 -
[8] - Quote
Joseph Ridgeson wrote:Aikuchi Tomaru wrote:CCP Logibro wrote:
This one I can tackle right now. SP, not skills would transfer (doing it by skills would be silly).
What will happen to skills that are removed for now? For example Commando suits. Would these SP just become void? I mean as I got that you won't include every Dust skill in Legion. I am assuming that means if you have 19,383,035 SP and 2,487,360 in Caldari Commando, you will just have 19,383,035 SP in Legion. The problem is the one I stated above. If Legion is meant to unlock things much, much faster my 34 million SP is pretty much going to have me unlocking almost everything in the game. If my 34 million SP doesn't transfer over, the money I have put in that put me at that amount of SP is lessened. It is a tough problem and, as I believe Mr. Logibro said, they are not even close to tackling it. To the developers: please keep us informed.
Well, they said they want to transfer over skills, rather than SP.
Sign up for Caldari FW and defeat the evil Gallente Overlords!
|
Aoena Rays
Bragian Order
Amarr Empire
443
|
Posted - 2014.05.08 13:18:00 -
[9] - Quote
Tbh it sounds like legion is going to be a completely different game. I'd not be surprised if they scaled own your total SP from dust to legion just because current numbers are insane. But we will see. Their vision of progression in legion looks WAY different than anything right now in dust. |
Joseph Ridgeson
WarRavens
Final Resolution.
1743
|
Posted - 2014.05.08 13:26:00 -
[10] - Quote
Aikuchi Tomaru wrote:CCP Logibro wrote:
This one I can tackle right now. SP, not skills would transfer (doing it by skills would be silly).
Well, they said they want to transfer over skills, rather than SP.
But Logibro is stating SP not skills now.
Did CCP say "skill, no SP" somewhere else? If so, please link because that is confusing.
"This is B.S! This is B.S! I paid money! Cash money, dollars money, cash money!"
|
|
|
IgniteableAura
Ancient Exiles.
Dirt Nap Squad.
1017
|
Posted - 2014.05.08 14:49:00 -
[11] - Quote
What about assets like BPOs that people spent RL money to attain?
Youtube
|
Joseph Ridgeson
WarRavens
Final Resolution.
1747
|
Posted - 2014.05.08 14:58:00 -
[12] - Quote
IgniteableAura wrote:What about assets like BPOs that people spent RL money to attain?
That's question 1. Current it is still "too early to tell." The easiest, move obvious thing, is just let them be skins. However, I didn't buy the Dren pack at 100 bucks for a bunch of skins.
Bunch of questions, few answers at the moment.
"This is B.S! This is B.S! I paid money! Cash money, dollars money, cash money!"
|
Phoenix 85
Kirkinen Risk Control
Caldari State
56
|
Posted - 2014.05.08 15:01:00 -
[13] - Quote
On BPO's, do my Balac's Ck.0 suits become BPO's? Because F YEA
Dust 514 cancelled, EvE players be like
|
DUST Fiend
The Wings of Legion
14211
|
Posted - 2014.05.08 15:46:00 -
[14] - Quote
CCP Logibro wrote:Joseph Ridgeson wrote:2. SP. Legion has a totally different Skill Tree than DUST to the point that the two are antithetical. Instead of the 7 unique nodes (Dropsuit Command, Dropsuit Upgrades, Vehicle Command, Vehicle Upgardes, Turret Operation, and Corporation Management), there are instead just going to be Roles , Assault, Heavy, Logistics, Scout, Pilot probably, that will branch out from there. This means that Caldari Logistics 5 with Nanocircuitry 5 and Repair Tool Operation 5 might just be Logistics-Support-Caldari. It is supposedly going to be "days to a week to unlock everything" meaning that throwing someone with 40 million SP into the game is going to a master of everything rather than what it is now and only be prototype in about 4-6 Suits/Roles. Another point: I have as much SP as I do because I spent money. If I lose SP I am losing money that I "invested" in my character. Answer: We will transfer everything where applicable." So does this mean that if Dropsuit Core Upgrades doesn't exist the SP we put into them is wasted? Basically, CCP doesn't know yet.
This one I can tackle right now. SP, not skills would transfer (doing it by skills would be silly).
I'd say take all my likes, but you probably could actually do that, and I would be a sad Fiend
|
Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
3148
|
Posted - 2014.05.08 15:56:00 -
[15] - Quote
Joseph Ridgeson wrote:
1. Every Dropsuit in Legion is a BPO. The rationale is "not being able to run your best dropsuit that you earned is stupid; you should always run it, be proud you earned it without worrying about the cost." Okay but what about my Raven, Sever, Dragonfly, and Drensuits? They are special and were "worth $120" because they never run out. Now they are not special in that aspect of never running out. What happens to them? As much as I love the look of the bad ass white camo on the Raven, it wasn't worth a 10 dollar skin. Answer: Still too early to tell.
For me every suit in DUST 514 was a BPO. I could not afford to run anything else. 
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
|
Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
3149
|
Posted - 2014.05.08 16:20:00 -
[16] - Quote
Joseph Ridgeson wrote:I worded the question in a crap manner now that I am reading it more closely; I only have one contact in, so there's my excuse. But with Legion's skill tree, are the number of SP we get going to be comparable? The concern I can see CCP, has a game company has, it "That guy with 34 million SP will unlock about five times as much in Legion than he could in DUST." That makes perfect sense and I am sure that is the biggest concern. However, "I have 34 million SP because I put money into boosters. If I don't have that amount, my 'investment' is lessened."
I don't see these two things being compatible unless Legion is really going to be "everyone can do everything." Is there any statement on this or is it still too early to tell? I can understand if it is because Project Legion is probably just a demo and an idea at the moment but it is still a question I gotta ask.
Thanks both to you and Saberwing for humoring this here neckbearded fat basement dweller repeatedly. ^_^
The best way to do it would be to divide your DUST 514 skill points by the passive skill point accrual rate to determine how long it would take to get that many skill points in DUST 514 through passive skill point accrual alone. Then multiply that number by the passive skill point accrual rate in Legion. That would give you a completely proportional transfer of skill points from one game to the other.
It does not matter that you earned skill points actively, or with boosters. Using the passive accrual rate gives a proportional time value. Your active play, or boosters, was simply a way of speeding up time so to speak, so that a very active player with boosters may have already accumulated the equivalent of 3 years of passive skill point accrual. Converting that back to passive accrual time gives you a consistent measure.
As long as they still have passive skill point accrual in Legion, this equation will work, even if they change the proportional value of a skill point considerably.
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
|
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
14757
|
Posted - 2014.05.08 16:22:00 -
[17] - Quote
would love to involve the community on the transfer when it comes to translations as some will not be perfect and will cause players of varying opinion to disagree with some changes.
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist
\\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
|
Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
3149
|
Posted - 2014.05.08 16:30:00 -
[18] - Quote
Aikuchi Tomaru wrote:What will happen to skills that are removed for now? For example Commando suits. Would these SP just become void? I mean as I got that you won't include every Dust skill in Legion.
It will by your total skill points earned that will be transferred (proportionally). It will not matter what you were skilled into in DUST. It will be like a full respec.
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
|
Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
3150
|
Posted - 2014.05.08 16:39:00 -
[19] - Quote
Joseph Ridgeson wrote:IgniteableAura wrote:What about assets like BPOs that people spent RL money to attain? That's question 1. Current it is still "too early to tell." The easiest, move obvious thing, is just let them be skins. However, I didn't buy the Dren pack at 100 bucks for a bunch of skins. Bunch of questions, few answers at the moment.
By the time you transfer to Legion you will have gotten 2 or 3 years of use out of those BPOGÇÖs. IsnGÇÖt that long enough to be worth the money?
If there is a reasonable way to transfer the BPOGÇÖs, they should be transferred, but I hope people donGÇÖt get to butt hurt if they canGÇÖt be, or they end up as only skins. We donGÇÖt want to restrict CCP in their design vision for the future by insisting that they make compromises to incorporate the mistakes of the past.
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
|
Villanor Aquarius
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL
Top Men.
181
|
Posted - 2014.05.08 16:42:00 -
[20] - Quote
The SP transfer I imagine would work as a percentage of possible progress.
1) Take the player's sp and divide it by the sp needed to max out every skill in the game.
2) Take Legion's progression system and multipy the above number by the maximum sp in Legion.
3) Award this number as unspent SP/progress/whatever.
This method means that everyone's boosters are exactly as valuable as they were before because they put you ahead by the same percentage of total progress as they did before. This method seems like a no-brainer to me as it directly scales your current progress % to the new games progress system. |
|
|
Forlorn Destrier
2446
|
Posted - 2014.05.08 16:45:00 -
[21] - Quote
Leeroy Gannarsein wrote:As I said in my thread, I don't want '40M SP', I want two years of progression (assuming 30k per day inc. login bonus and capping weekly).
Otherwise the money and time I have invested is not being rewarded.
What if 40 million SP equals 3 years in Legion? (just curious how you feel this should be handled) |
Tallen Ellecon
1910
|
Posted - 2014.05.08 16:49:00 -
[22] - Quote
Assuming there is still a Dust when there is a transfer, I'd really like someway of making sure nothing is wasted like giving what I can't use to a friend or at least given an equivalent.
I personally only need a few things in a transfer to be completely satisfied.
1)My SP, or the totality of all my active SP and boosted SP(passive and active).
I paid and grinded for that SP, I'd like at least that much. If the numbers were scaled a proper equivalent.
2) Any remaining Aurum scaled appropriately to whatever the in game currency in Legion is. Maybe they will use EVE aurum, for a merged economy, so a $ per $ equivalent would suffice. Any remaining Aurum bought gear and militia BPO's I'd also like an equivalent of.
3) My BPOs, I don't care if they have the same mechanics, of requiring no skills and no ISK, but some indestructible unique item will suffice, even if it's just a unique skin.
4)Unique and Rare items, I've made an effort to collect Black Eagle suits, Quafe suits, and other event suits like the Caldari Prime event rewards.
I personally don't need any ISK, any assets bought with ISK, and I don't think there should be an ISK transfer. I'm definitely not DUST poor since I've spent most of my time playing in BPOs, so this isn't about taking away from others. This is both to help balance economy and level the playing field at the start. If old players were given their relatively massive funds and SP that could raise the prices far too high. Newer players would have to do all the work to get anything. This isn't just directed at those of us with massive wealth but if there was an ISK transfer what's to stop those without the desire to move to PC to give all their ISK to an even smaller group of people making it even more imbalanced? I'd rather give my ISK to someone who isn't moving to Legion. Then again if it started out as a merged economy with EVE I don't think it'd make a huge difference if ISK was transferred, but I'm no New Eden economist.
All personal opinion.
TL;DR
Give me my name, SP, remaining aurum and aurum assets, BPOs, unique items, and don't transfer any of my ISK or ISK bought stuff, and I'll be a happy camper.
|
Tallen Ellecon
1910
|
Posted - 2014.05.08 16:52:00 -
[23] - Quote
Fox Gaden wrote:Joseph Ridgeson wrote:IgniteableAura wrote:What about assets like BPOs that people spent RL money to attain? That's question 1. Current it is still "too early to tell." The easiest, move obvious thing, is just let them be skins. However, I didn't buy the Dren pack at 100 bucks for a bunch of skins. Bunch of questions, few answers at the moment. By the time you transfer to Legion you will have gotten 2 or 3 years of use out of those BPOGÇÖs. IsnGÇÖt that long enough to be worth the money? If there is a reasonable way to transfer the BPOGÇÖs, they should be transferred, but I hope people donGÇÖt get to butt hurt if they canGÇÖt be, or they end up as only skins. We donGÇÖt want to restrict CCP in their design vision for the future by insisting that they make compromises to incorporate the mistakes of the past.
If they gave me skins of my BPOs to put on my suits I would be fine with them losing their ISKless and Skilless perks.
|
Leeroy Gannarsein
Shining Flame
Amarr Empire
35
|
Posted - 2014.05.08 16:55:00 -
[24] - Quote
Forlorn Destrier wrote:Leeroy Gannarsein wrote:As I said in my thread, I don't want '40M SP', I want two years of progression (assuming 30k per day inc. login bonus and capping weekly).
Otherwise the money and time I have invested is not being rewarded. What if 40 million SP equals 3 years in Legion? (just curious how you feel this should be handled)
What if 40M SP in Legion = one year?
I want two years of progression. If CCP decided to give me another year for some reason I'd not kick up a fuss (:P), but I'd definitely point it out and ask for some sound reasoning.
Villanor Aquarius wrote:The SP transfer I imagine would work as a percentage of possible progress.
1) Take the player's sp and divide it by the sp needed to max out every skill in the game.
2) Take Legion's progression system and multipy the above number by the maximum sp in Legion.
3) Award this number as unspent SP/progress/whatever.
This method means that everyone's boosters are exactly as valuable as they were before because they put you ahead by the same percentage of total progress as they did before. This method seems like a no-brainer to me as it directly scales your current progress % to the new games progress system.
This method seems good at first blush, but for two things: the trees will have different things (the proportions change if for example the Commando, which takes up 10M of our current tree is not in the FF presentation) and that it's highly likely that proportions will change anyway, and my evidence for that is the dramatically greater sink in vehicles since the rebalance.
MY ACTUAL NAME IS LORHAK
It would seem like wisdom, but for the warning in my heart...
JAMAL SARUM IS MY EMPRESS
|
Villanor Aquarius
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL
Top Men.
181
|
Posted - 2014.05.08 16:59:00 -
[25] - Quote
The issues you point out don't seem that significant to me, if what people want is for their time investment to properly transfer over then taking my SP and finding the relative amount it is of maxing out everything and translating it into the same relative amount in Legion, then I am at the same point in Legion that I currently am.
Now in Legion I very likely won't have the same skills or even roles that some of my SP are in now but I'll have the same amount of "progress" so basically my time spent in game will have been worth the same relative amount of time. |
Forlorn Destrier
2446
|
Posted - 2014.05.08 17:00:00 -
[26] - Quote
Joseph Ridgeson wrote:Aikuchi Tomaru wrote:CCP Logibro wrote:
This one I can tackle right now. SP, not skills would transfer (doing it by skills would be silly).
What will happen to skills that are removed for now? For example Commando suits. Would these SP just become void? I mean as I got that you won't include every Dust skill in Legion. I am assuming that means if you have 19,383,035 SP and 2,487,360 in Caldari Commando, you will just have 19,383,035 SP in Legion. The problem is the one I stated above. If Legion is meant to unlock things much, much faster my 34 million SP is pretty much going to have me unlocking almost everything in the game. If my 34 million SP doesn't transfer over, the money I have put in that put me at that amount of SP is lessened. It is a tough problem and, as I believe Mr. Logibro said, they are not even close to tackling it. To the developers: please keep us informed.
Idea: What if they carried over the percentage?
For example, (random numbers coming) let's say the max SP in Dust514 is 100 million, and you have earned 40 million. You are at 40% of the total progression.
Now, let's say Legion has 50 million SP max. If you carried the percentage you would have 20 million SP - but you would be at the same point progression wise. Would you be okay with this? |
Villanor Aquarius
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL
Top Men.
181
|
Posted - 2014.05.08 17:01:00 -
[27] - Quote
I just posted that a couple posts above. |
Forlorn Destrier
2446
|
Posted - 2014.05.08 17:05:00 -
[28] - Quote
Villanor Aquarius wrote:I just posted that a couple posts above.
I'm at work - can't read the entire thread in one go.  |
Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
3151
|
Posted - 2014.05.08 17:07:00 -
[29] - Quote
Villanor Aquarius wrote:The SP transfer I imagine would work as a percentage of possible progress.
1) Take the player's sp and divide it by the sp needed to max out every skill in the game.
2) Take Legion's progression system and multipy the above number by the maximum sp in Legion.
3) Award this number as unspent SP/progress/whatever.
This method means that everyone's boosters are exactly as valuable as they were before because they put you ahead by the same percentage of total progress as they did before. This method seems like a no-brainer to me as it directly scales your current progress % to the new games progress system.
My equation accounts for the value of boosters.
Your equations depends on max skill points which is not a constant. Skills and Items are added to the game all the time. So the max skill points possible in the game changes all the time. What if they used your formula, and then added MCC piloting skills the next day? That would be major skill point deflation wouldn't it? Besides there is no maximum skill points you can earn in a CCP game. If you manage to learn all the skills in the game, then the developers are not doing their jobs. Skills are supposed to be constantly added so that you will always have more to train.
The amount of skill points earned per minute or per hour or per day, is a constant in both games. Divide your total skill points by that constant in DUST, and then multiply the result by that constant in Legion, and you have a direct conversion so that the skill points you get in legion represent the same value as the time/effort/AUR that you put into earning those skill points in DUST.
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
|
DUST Fiend
The Wings of Legion
14215
|
Posted - 2014.05.08 17:26:00 -
[30] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:would love to involve the community on the transfer when it comes to translations as some will not be perfect and will cause players of varying opinion to disagree with some changes.
Wouldn't it make sense to just unallocate the SP, and transfer it as a number.
Why attempt to translate pre existing skills? That just sounds like a **** storm waiting to happen.
|
|
|
Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
3151
|
Posted - 2014.05.08 17:28:00 -
[31] - Quote
Villanor Aquarius wrote:The issues you point out don't seem that significant to me, if what people want is for their time investment to properly transfer over then taking my SP and finding the relative amount it is of maxing out everything and translating it into the same relative amount in Legion, then I am at the same point in Legion that I currently am.
Now in Legion I very likely won't have the same skills or even roles that some of my SP are in now but I'll have the same amount of "progress" so basically my time spent in game will have been worth the same relative amount of time.
Your system could result in transferring 2 years in DUST to 1 year worth or Legion progression, or to 4 years worth of Legion progression, depending on how many items they add to the game before the transfer. Using the total skill point requirements of the skill trees in both games will not give you anywhere near a proportional skill point transfer.
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
|
Joseph Ridgeson
WarRavens
Final Resolution.
1758
|
Posted - 2014.05.08 17:31:00 -
[32] - Quote
Fox Gaden wrote:Joseph Ridgeson wrote:IgniteableAura wrote:What about assets like BPOs that people spent RL money to attain? That's question 1. Current it is still "too early to tell." The easiest, move obvious thing, is just let them be skins. However, I didn't buy the Dren pack at 100 bucks for a bunch of skins. Bunch of questions, few answers at the moment. By the time you transfer to Legion you will have gotten 2 or 3 years of use out of those BPOGÇÖs. IsnGÇÖt that long enough to be worth the money?
Eh, not quite. When they are advertised "forever" than two years does not cut it. ^_^
It is a bad situation. I think all dropsuits being BPO is an interesting direction for Legion but it means that my BPO dropsuits are devalued greatly. I don't regret buying the packs or supporting DUST. However, I will be unhappy if someone's money transfers over totally fine and mine doesn't because I "bought the wrong stuff."
Ah, BPO's. The promises of your predecessor is something that your current customers are expecting you to uphold.
"This is B.S! This is B.S! I paid money! Cash money, dollars money, cash money!"
|
Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
3151
|
Posted - 2014.05.08 17:32:00 -
[33] - Quote
Forlorn Destrier wrote:Idea: What if they carried over the percentage?
For example, (random numbers coming) let's say the max SP in Dust514 is 100 million, and you have earned 40 million. You are at 40% of the total progression.
Now, let's say Legion has 50 million SP max. If you carried the percentage you would have 20 million SP - but you would be at the same point progression wise. Would you be okay with this?
No.
If they get more stuff added to Legion, that gives you a much large max value. Using this formula 2 years of progression in DUST could become 5 years of progression in Legion. How would that be fair to the new guys starting Legion, when they are playing against people who got a 3 year boost that they did not earn?
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
|
Sneaky Fletcher
Three-body Solution
66
|
Posted - 2014.05.08 18:39:00 -
[34] - Quote
CCP Logibro wrote:Joseph Ridgeson wrote:texty wallish thing This one I can tackle right now. SP, not skills would transfer (doing it by skills would be silly).
Been lurking the forums, just to see if you pull a Metal Gear Online and make everything free for the last days of Dust
Just found out there is a projerct legion section
I know this has been said a million times but: Was that so difficult to say??
This is really trollish but I need to ask: where is the public apology for leaving your consumers uneasy and confused/angry after dropping the legion bomb?? |
Joseph Ridgeson
WarRavens
Final Resolution.
1872
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 17:55:00 -
[35] - Quote
Any new information to add to this?
"This is B.S! This is B.S! I paid money! Cash money, dollars money, cash money!"
|
xTheSiLLyRaBBiTx
The Last of DusT.
General Tso's Alliance
157
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 19:41:00 -
[36] - Quote
CCP Logibro wrote:Joseph Ridgeson wrote:CCP Logibro wrote:Joseph Ridgeson wrote:2. SP. Legion has a totally different Skill Tree than DUST to the point that the two are antithetical. Instead of the 7 unique nodes (Dropsuit Command, Dropsuit Upgrades, Vehicle Command, Vehicle Upgardes, Turret Operation, and Corporation Management), there are instead just going to be Roles , Assault, Heavy, Logistics, Scout, Pilot probably, that will branch out from there. This means that Caldari Logistics 5 with Nanocircuitry 5 and Repair Tool Operation 5 might just be Logistics-Support-Caldari. It is supposedly going to be "days to a week to unlock everything" meaning that throwing someone with 40 million SP into the game is going to a master of everything rather than what it is now and only be prototype in about 4-6 Suits/Roles. Another point: I have as much SP as I do because I spent money. If I lose SP I am losing money that I "invested" in my character. Answer: We will transfer everything where applicable." So does this mean that if Dropsuit Core Upgrades doesn't exist the SP we put into them is wasted? Basically, CCP doesn't know yet.
This one I can tackle right now. SP, not skills would transfer (doing it by skills would be silly). So that means that a respec would happen in the transfer. I worded the question in a crap manner now that I am reading it more closely; I only have one contact in, so there's my excuse. But with Legion's skill tree, are the number of SP we get going to be comparable? The concern I can see CCP, has a game company has, it "That guy with 34 million SP will unlock about five times as much in Legion than he could in DUST." That makes perfect sense and I am sure that is the biggest concern. However, "I have 34 million SP because I put money into boosters. If I don't have that amount, my 'investment' is lessened." I don't see these two things being compatible unless Legion is really going to be "everyone can do everything." Is there any statement on this or is it still too early to tell? I can understand if it is because Project Legion is probably just a demo and an idea at the moment but it is still a question I gotta ask. Thanks both to you and Saberwing for humoring this here neckbearded fat basement dweller repeatedly. ^_^ That's something we'll sit down and work out when we nail down the progression system, but we're not there yet. Making it fair is something we'll definitely want to do when we get there.
If this all progresses toward the EVE style in terms of player SP, the concept of everyone using everything would be a detriment to the very players who been around so long to earn those points. The best part that I love about this game was the learning curve. I came in during open beta with nothing when there were already players with 15-25k SP already; I adapted. Life isn't fair/Dust isn't fair/EVE is not fair. I love that one true factor in this game.
I LOGI LIKE I GIVE A FLUX
|Director of Fatal Absolution|
|Ringer Hub Creator|
Skype: xTheSiLLyRaBBiTx
|
Joseph Ridgeson
WarRavens
Final Resolution.
1937
|
Posted - 2014.05.30 00:42:00 -
[37] - Quote
xTheSiLLyRaBBiTx wrote: If this all progresses toward the EVE style in terms of player SP, the concept of everyone using everything would be a detriment to the very players who been around so long to earn those points. The best part that I love about this game was the learning curve. I came in during open beta with nothing when there were already players with 15-25k SP already; I adapted. Life isn't fair/Dust isn't fair/EVE is not fair. I love that one true factor in this game.
I am guessing it is going to be "everyone should be able to be a Logistics; throw down stuff, needle friends, repair people" but it will be more difficult to get into the true specialization where things get better. At the moment, it is very difficult to start being a Logistics. You are going to have to take a Racial Logistics to do it at all. I suppose Legion will make it easier to generalize and get everything but make it harder to get the bigger bonuses.
"This is B.S! This is B.S! I paid money! Cash money, dollars money, cash money!"
|
Asirius Medaius
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL
Top Men.
1119
|
Posted - 2014.05.30 21:27:00 -
[38] - Quote
CCP Logibro wrote:Joseph Ridgeson wrote:2. SP. Legion has a totally different Skill Tree than DUST to the point that the two are antithetical. Instead of the 7 unique nodes (Dropsuit Command, Dropsuit Upgrades, Vehicle Command, Vehicle Upgardes, Turret Operation, and Corporation Management), there are instead just going to be Roles , Assault, Heavy, Logistics, Scout, Pilot probably, that will branch out from there. This means that Caldari Logistics 5 with Nanocircuitry 5 and Repair Tool Operation 5 might just be Logistics-Support-Caldari. It is supposedly going to be "days to a week to unlock everything" meaning that throwing someone with 40 million SP into the game is going to a master of everything rather than what it is now and only be prototype in about 4-6 Suits/Roles. Another point: I have as much SP as I do because I spent money. If I lose SP I am losing money that I "invested" in my character. Answer: We will transfer everything where applicable." So does this mean that if Dropsuit Core Upgrades doesn't exist the SP we put into them is wasted? Basically, CCP doesn't know yet.
This one I can tackle right now. SP, not skills would transfer (doing it by skills would be silly).
Now, just to clarify, will our new SP carry the same magnitude from Dust 514 to Project Legion? If so, I think I'm gonna start activating that omega booster right away. |
Ender Storm
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
167
|
Posted - 2014.05.31 18:45:00 -
[39] - Quote
BPO`s are stupid.
BPO`s should be a manufacturer tool, not a licence to use ubber suits without costs. |
Joseph Ridgeson
WarRavens
1997
|
Posted - 2014.08.29 04:00:00 -
[40] - Quote
Been away for 3 months. Is there anything extra to add?..
"This is B.S! This is B.S! I paid money! Cash money, dollars money, cash money!"
|
|
|
medomai grey
WarRavens
933
|
Posted - 2014.08.29 07:06:00 -
[41] - Quote
CCP Logibro wrote:Joseph Ridgeson wrote:2. SP. Legion has a totally different Skill Tree than DUST to the point that the two are antithetical. Instead of the 7 unique nodes (Dropsuit Command, Dropsuit Upgrades, Vehicle Command, Vehicle Upgardes, Turret Operation, and Corporation Management), there are instead just going to be Roles , Assault, Heavy, Logistics, Scout, Pilot probably, that will branch out from there. This means that Caldari Logistics 5 with Nanocircuitry 5 and Repair Tool Operation 5 might just be Logistics-Support-Caldari. It is supposedly going to be "days to a week to unlock everything" meaning that throwing someone with 40 million SP into the game is going to a master of everything rather than what it is now and only be prototype in about 4-6 Suits/Roles. Another point: I have as much SP as I do because I spent money. If I lose SP I am losing money that I "invested" in my character. Answer: We will transfer everything where applicable." So does this mean that if Dropsuit Core Upgrades doesn't exist the SP we put into them is wasted? Basically, CCP doesn't know yet.
This one I can tackle right now. SP, not skills would transfer (doing it by skills would be silly). ^ CCP DEV just broke the long silence on the topic of EVE: Legion... \o/
What percentile of Dust514's infantry arsenal belongs to the category of machine guns?
|
Regis Blackbird
DUST University
Ivy League
388
|
Posted - 2014.08.29 08:35:00 -
[42] - Quote
Sadly not. Logibro's comment were posted on 2014.05.08 12:38 |
Scheneighnay McBob
Cult of Gasai
5872
|
Posted - 2014.08.29 17:39:00 -
[43] - Quote
Wait, everything is a BPO?
How about no?
pé¦pâ+pé¦pâ½pâäpâ¬pâ¦pé¦pâ¼pâ+pâêpü»sñ¬S+ïpéè
|
medomai grey
WarRavens
935
|
Posted - 2014.08.29 18:18:00 -
[44] - Quote
Regis Blackbird wrote:Sadly not. Logibro's comment were posted on 2014.05.08 12:38 D:
What percentile of Dust514's infantry arsenal belongs to the category of machine guns?
|
steadyhand amarr
shadows of 514
3282
|
Posted - 2014.08.30 14:40:00 -
[45] - Quote
i would expect to here something at EvE: las vagus if we dont here anything there then the project is dead in the water
You can never have to many chaples
-Templar True adamance
|
XxWarlordxX97
BurgezzE.T.F
4391
|
Posted - 2014.09.01 00:00:00 -
[46] - Quote
So I get to have my all my 31 million sp, thank you
Now I don't have to grind for to 2 years or over
I don't rage,I get even
|
|
|
| |
|
| Pages: 1 2 :: [one page] |