DUST Search - CPM I call for you guys to admit to the truth

The Black Jackal wrote:

PoP SoTa wrote:

Are you our representatives or are you the representatives to CCP's desire for FPS?

I just can't seem to grasp why you guys are pushing towards Legion so hard when it's just a 'prototype'

For something not even green lit - there's way too much focus on transfers. You guys want to bail that quick to PC?

And, please, don't throw me that line of, "But it'll come to PS4 eventually!"

What community representative would be cool with seeing it's community torn in half for a game that could literally be called it's duplicate?

If CPM were really looking out for us - why are they not pushing for the PC release to be held back until there's a PS4 port so we can all hop over together at same time?

Logically, I just see this as CPM betraying us. They argue me just tunnel vision and blind - but they seem to forget I'm not looking towards a new game, I only care about what's here in front of me, not some 'if' dream of tomorrow. I care about the COMMUNITY of today.

What matters is here and now.

So what is it CPM and Candidates, are you trust worthy to us Console goers? Because you guys all look pretty slimy right now.

Smoking gun and pitchforks here.
An often heralded quote of mine with regards to the CPM is "You influence what you can, aiming for the best, but doing what you can with what you get." Most candidates, myself included, were hoping for a PC / PS4 Port simultaneously, but what we got was a pure PC port.

It's not ideal, but it was necessary to get DUST off the PS3 and onto something more likely to sustain it for the foreseeable future. Even most consolers I've spoken to agree to this.

I'm in agreement that sidelining DUST for something not even green lit by CCP (though I'm fairly certain that's mostly legal, cover-our-arse terminology that the devs have been forced to use) is a bad move. However, the more support we get for Project Legion, the more likely it will be that it will be green lit, and development can move forward.
Onto the PS4 issue. Sony has procedures that can inhibit the development of games. It's not Sony's fault, they do it to protect their assets, servers, and so forth. But it hinders ongoing projects like DUST 514, and Legion, while the PC is a slate that CCP can use, change, alter, tweak at will. Resulting in a faster development process, more updates, faster hotfixes, and speedier connections since there's no PSN interference or authentication.

That being said, the PC is x86 architecture, as is the new PS4. While developing a game on PS4 would be held in line by procedural roadblocks, development on PC wold not, thus, once CCP has a well-working PC Shooter, a Port to PS4 will come a lot easier, and development can slow down to account for PlayStation Vetting Processes. Until then, it's best to give them as much leeway to change what they want as much as they want, without having to vet the process.

Now. While not ideal, Legion is what we have got, and once you see through the haze of red, the possibilities that come forth are staggering. Things that were all but impossible on PS3 (larger matches, Player Markets, and so much more) are now capable of being realised. Things people have been wanting for DUST since the beginning, but are all but undeliverable on an old system like the PS3 can be implemented, and much better implemented.

I maintain that the ideal would have been to dual release, but I also see the flip side and see why they didn't. I will be pushing to have a PS4 release within a short span of time after the PC release to ensure that CCP never forgets that consolers have a place in New Eden. This is the one and only promise that i can make, that I WILL push for a PS4 client ASAP. But I will not advocate such a client until such time as the PC version is stable, performing well, and has the capacity to have it's development slowed by vetting processes without impacting the game negatively.

We need to learn from the mistakes DUST 514 made by attempting to develop something so new on the fly on console. It doesn't work, it wont work, and we're better off getting something working great, and moving it to the console. But I will again state, that I do not plan to have Consoler's left in the dust (excuse the pun).

I also plan on having as much as is humanly possible from the Legion development put into DUST, even if only as a testbed for assets, so that DUST will at least be comparable in 'shooting people in the face' gameplay to Legion.

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PoP SoTa Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 42	Posted - 2014.05.06 16:45:00 - [1] - Quote Are you our representatives or are you the representatives to CCP's desire for FPS? I just can't seem to grasp why you guys are pushing towards Legion so hard when it's just a 'prototype' For something not even green lit - there's way too much focus on transfers. You guys want to bail that quick to PC? And, please, don't throw me that line of, "But it'll come to PS4 eventually!" What community represantive would be cool with seeing it's community torn in half for a game that could literally be called it's duplicate? If CPM were really looking out for us - why are they not pushing for the PC release to be held back until there's a PS4 port so we can all hop over together at same time? Logically, I just see this as CPM betraying us. They argue me just tunnel vision and blind - but they seem to forget I'm not looking towards a new game, I only care about what's here in front of me, not some 'if' dream of tomorrow. I care about the COMMUNITY of today. What matters is here and now. So what is it CPM and Candidates, are you trust worthy to us Console goers? Because you guys all look pretty slimy right now.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 2483	Posted - 2014.05.06 17:02:00 - [2] - Quote I think the issue, is that CCP has made it clear it's immovable on it's intention to release for PC before PS4. I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 3103	Posted - 2014.05.06 18:55:00 - [3] - Quote PoP SoTa wrote: Are you our representatives or are you the representatives to CCP's desire for FPS? I just can't seem to grasp why you guys are pushing towards Legion so hard when it's just a 'prototype' I think they are committed to the same vision for DUST that they were before Fan Fest, only now the only hope for that dream becoming a reality is through Project Legion. PoP SoTa wrote: For something not even green lit - there's way too much focus on transfers. You guys want to bail that quick to PC? And, please, don't throw me that line of, "But it'll come to PS4 eventually!" We always knew it would move to another platform. The promise was that our characters would persist for the next 10 years or more as the game progressed from platform to platform. We were expecting and hoping that the next platform would be the PS4, but moving it to PC does not change the importance of persistence. If the game ever gets ported to the PS4, being able to continue to use the character you played on the PS3 will be important to DUST vets. The chances of DUST reaching original expectations on the PS4 is greater if CCP develops it on the PC (without having the restrictions imposed by having to work through Sony) and then port to the PS4 as a finished product, than if they tried to develop it on the PS4. Moving to PC will likely shave a year off the development time. Even if it dose not get ported to the PS4, there is still a better chance of the game achieving its vision on the PC than if they tried to develop it on the PS4. PoP SoTa wrote: What community represantive would be cool with seeing it's community torn in half for a game that could literally be called it's duplicate? If CPM were really looking out for us - why are they not pushing for the PC release to be held back until there's a PS4 port so we can all hop over together at same time? Logically, I just see this as CPM betraying us. They argue me just tunnel vision and blind - but they seem to forget I'm not looking towards a new game, I only care about what's here in front of me, not some 'if' dream of tomorrow. I care about the COMMUNITY of today. What matters is here and now. So what is it CPM and Candidates, are you trust worthy to us Console goers? Because you guys all look pretty slimy right now. Legion is not a port of DUST to PC. It is a complete rebuild from scratch using all the lessons learned in trying to develop DUST. (Sort of like how they handled the tank changes in 1.7.) They would not do a rebuild on the PS3, it is an outdated platform. One of the lessons they learned is that it is hard to develop when you have to go through Sony for every change, so they chose to do the rebuild on PC rather than the PS4. You say GÇ£duplicateGÇ¥, I say it is their third attempt at building the same game. The CPM1 candidates who are still running are committed to the game they are playing now, and the game they want to be playing in the future, just as they were before. The only difference is that the game of the future will be on a different game system. I bought a PS3 to play DUST. I will have to buy a Gamming PC to play EVE:Legion. It is getting very expensive but I am committed to the game achieving its full potential, and if it has to move to PC to do that, then so be it. I donGÇÖt expect you will find any CPM candidate that does not support a port of Legion to the PS4 once it is ready. And the CPM candidates continue to play DUST 514 on the PS3, so they will continue to be committed to improvements on the PS3 platform. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
The Black Jackal The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 1138	Posted - 2014.05.06 23:20:00 - [4] - Quote PoP SoTa wrote: Are you our representatives or are you the representatives to CCP's desire for FPS? I just can't seem to grasp why you guys are pushing towards Legion so hard when it's just a 'prototype' For something not even green lit - there's way too much focus on transfers. You guys want to bail that quick to PC? And, please, don't throw me that line of, "But it'll come to PS4 eventually!" What community representative would be cool with seeing it's community torn in half for a game that could literally be called it's duplicate? If CPM were really looking out for us - why are they not pushing for the PC release to be held back until there's a PS4 port so we can all hop over together at same time? Logically, I just see this as CPM betraying us. They argue me just tunnel vision and blind - but they seem to forget I'm not looking towards a new game, I only care about what's here in front of me, not some 'if' dream of tomorrow. I care about the COMMUNITY of today. What matters is here and now. So what is it CPM and Candidates, are you trust worthy to us Console goers? Because you guys all look pretty slimy right now. Smoking gun and pitchforks here. An often heralded quote of mine with regards to the CPM is "You influence what you can, aiming for the best, but doing what you can with what you get." Most candidates, myself included, were hoping for a PC / PS4 Port simultaneously, but what we got was a pure PC port. It's not ideal, but it was necessary to get DUST off the PS3 and onto something more likely to sustain it for the foreseeable future. Even most consolers I've spoken to agree to this. I'm in agreement that sidelining DUST for something not even green lit by CCP (though I'm fairly certain that's mostly legal, cover-our-arse terminology that the devs have been forced to use) is a bad move. However, the more support we get for Project Legion, the more likely it will be that it will be green lit, and development can move forward. Onto the PS4 issue. Sony has procedures that can inhibit the development of games. It's not Sony's fault, they do it to protect their assets, servers, and so forth. But it hinders ongoing projects like DUST 514, and Legion, while the PC is a slate that CCP can use, change, alter, tweak at will. Resulting in a faster development process, more updates, faster hotfixes, and speedier connections since there's no PSN interference or authentication. That being said, the PC is x86 architecture, as is the new PS4. While developing a game on PS4 would be held in line by procedural roadblocks, development on PC wold not, thus, once CCP has a well-working PC Shooter, a Port to PS4 will come a lot easier, and development can slow down to account for PlayStation Vetting Processes. Until then, it's best to give them as much leeway to change what they want as much as they want, without having to vet the process. Now. While not ideal, Legion is what we have got, and once you see through the haze of red, the possibilities that come forth are staggering. Things that were all but impossible on PS3 (larger matches, Player Markets, and so much more) are now capable of being realised. Things people have been wanting for DUST since the beginning, but are all but undeliverable on an old system like the PS3 can be implemented, and much better implemented. I maintain that the ideal would have been to dual release, but I also see the flip side and see why they didn't. I will be pushing to have a PS4 release within a short span of time after the PC release to ensure that CCP never forgets that consolers have a place in New Eden. This is the one and only promise that i can make, that I WILL push for a PS4 client ASAP. But I will not advocate such a client until such time as the PC version is stable, performing well, and has the capacity to have it's development slowed by vetting processes without impacting the game negatively. We need to learn from the mistakes DUST 514 made by attempting to develop something so new on the fly on console. It doesn't work, it wont work, and we're better off getting something working great, and moving it to the console. But I will again state, that I do not plan to have Consoler's left in the dust (excuse the pun). I also plan on having as much as is humanly possible from the Legion development put into DUST, even if only as a testbed for assets, so that DUST will at least be comparable in 'shooting people in the face' gameplay to Legion. Once you go Black, you just never go back!
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 3111	Posted - 2014.05.06 23:53:00 - [5] - Quote Well said The Black Jackal, well said. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
PoP SoTa Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 89	Posted - 2014.05.07 00:01:00 - [6] - Quote The Black Jackal wrote: PoP SoTa wrote: Are you our representatives or are you the representatives to CCP's desire for FPS? I just can't seem to grasp why you guys are pushing towards Legion so hard when it's just a 'prototype' For something not even green lit - there's way too much focus on transfers. You guys want to bail that quick to PC? And, please, don't throw me that line of, "But it'll come to PS4 eventually!" What community representative would be cool with seeing it's community torn in half for a game that could literally be called it's duplicate? If CPM were really looking out for us - why are they not pushing for the PC release to be held back until there's a PS4 port so we can all hop over together at same time? Logically, I just see this as CPM betraying us. They argue me just tunnel vision and blind - but they seem to forget I'm not looking towards a new game, I only care about what's here in front of me, not some 'if' dream of tomorrow. I care about the COMMUNITY of today. What matters is here and now. So what is it CPM and Candidates, are you trust worthy to us Console goers? Because you guys all look pretty slimy right now. Smoking gun and pitchforks here. An often heralded quote of mine with regards to the CPM is "You influence what you can, aiming for the best, but doing what you can with what you get." Most candidates, myself included, were hoping for a PC / PS4 Port simultaneously, but what we got was a pure PC port. It's not ideal, but it was necessary to get DUST off the PS3 and onto something more likely to sustain it for the foreseeable future. Even most consolers I've spoken to agree to this. I'm in agreement that sidelining DUST for something not even green lit by CCP (though I'm fairly certain that's mostly legal, cover-our-arse terminology that the devs have been forced to use) is a bad move. However, the more support we get for Project Legion, the more likely it will be that it will be green lit, and development can move forward. Onto the PS4 issue. Sony has procedures that can inhibit the development of games. It's not Sony's fault, they do it to protect their assets, servers, and so forth. But it hinders ongoing projects like DUST 514, and Legion, while the PC is a slate that CCP can use, change, alter, tweak at will. Resulting in a faster development process, more updates, faster hotfixes, and speedier connections since there's no PSN interference or authentication. That being said, the PC is x86 architecture, as is the new PS4. While developing a game on PS4 would be held in line by procedural roadblocks, development on PC wold not, thus, once CCP has a well-working PC Shooter, a Port to PS4 will come a lot easier, and development can slow down to account for PlayStation Vetting Processes. Until then, it's best to give them as much leeway to change what they want as much as they want, without having to vet the process. Now. While not ideal, Legion is what we have got, and once you see through the haze of red, the possibilities that come forth are staggering. Things that were all but impossible on PS3 (larger matches, Player Markets, and so much more) are now capable of being realised. Things people have been wanting for DUST since the beginning, but are all but undeliverable on an old system like the PS3 can be implemented, and much better implemented. I maintain that the ideal would have been to dual release, but I also see the flip side and see why they didn't. I will be pushing to have a PS4 release within a short span of time after the PC release to ensure that CCP never forgets that consolers have a place in New Eden. This is the one and only promise that i can make, that I WILL push for a PS4 client ASAP. But I will not advocate such a client until such time as the PC version is stable, performing well, and has the capacity to have it's development slowed by vetting processes without impacting the game negatively. We need to learn from the mistakes DUST 514 made by attempting to develop something so new on the fly on console. It doesn't work, it wont work, and we're better off getting something working great, and moving it to the console. But I will again state, that I do not plan to have Consoler's left in the dust (excuse the pun). I also plan on having as much as is humanly possible from the Legion development put into DUST, even if only as a testbed for assets, so that DUST will at least be comparable in 'shooting people in the face' gameplay to Legion. Excellent post. I just have one question: What point is CPM to Dust? Do we really need Reps for such a small resourced project? With Legion being in development and has no date for release and Dust being down-graded, it seems to me that CPM has now turned into a position coveted by people simply wanting to feel special, as you don't need CPM to post in the Feedback/suggestion/ideas section of the forums - where CCP should be getting a lot of there ideas for balances and tweaks (Is that even a term in CCP language? lol) If there's no major content for us coming - I don't see the value of CPM anymore - why should there be a new election?
Derrith Erador Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad. 1770	Posted - 2014.05.07 00:14:00 - [7] - Quote BUT it WILL come to PS4 eventually... FA's official kill thief and ADS pilot. May my darling ADS Laira finally find peace as I hope to find.
Djinn SouI Molden Heath PoIice Department 0	Posted - 2014.05.07 00:15:00 - [8] - Quote You got my vote and the support of MHPD.
The Black Jackal The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 1140	Posted - 2014.05.07 00:37:00 - [9] - Quote PoP SoTa wrote: Excellent post. I just have one question: What point is CPM to Dust? Do we really need Reps for such a small resourced project? With Legion being in development and has no date for release and Dust being down-graded, it seems to me that CPM has now turned into a position coveted by people simply wanting to feel special, as you don't need CPM to post in the Feedback/suggestion/ideas section of the forums - where CCP should be getting a lot of there ideas for balances and tweaks (Is that even a term in CCP language? lol) If there's no major content for us coming - I don't see the value of CPM anymore - why should there be a new election? I can certainly see your point. The fact is that despite there being no major content coming for DUST 514, and I'll debate what is major or not with CCP whether I get on the CPM or not, the CPM will still act as it always has. A filter, a gatherer of resources, and representative of the community. The CPM is a 'direct line' so to speak and after the debacle at Fanfest, the CPM has more influence than ever because they were right. Forums are a great source of information, and CCP does regularly check them, but the CPM can in a lot of cases, live and breathe them, IRC chats, Skype Chats, and more. Personally talking to players in game, out of game, where CCP Developers will have their hands full for the most part developing the actual game. The CPM, allegedly, will also consult on the development of Legion itself. Now, I'm sure I don't have to point out that having the community directly involved with development of a game is HUGE, but developers can't take information for everyone... it's practically impossible. As stated above, they do have to develop the game as well. So The CPM acts as an information gathering resource, a filtering system, and an entity to coherently and conclusively present the ideas they gather to CCP directly. Whether face-to-face or via Skype / IRC / other Online Applications. Face-to-face contact is a huge advantage in presenting ideas, as people respond more to that, than they do to online suggestions. There are a lot of great ideas out there, even the guys with few 'likes' come up with a lot. Unfortunately, they tend to get buried quickly by other ideas, flaming, trolling, QQ, and so on and so forth. Community Managers for CCP have enough hardships digging through that, at the very least, having extra hands on deck to help sort out the good ideas from the rest of the stuff is worth electing people for. The inevitable question I guess comes from this is, "What makes you think that you know what a good idea is compared to xxx?" This simple question is exactly the reason we have elections. Candidates present their views, opinions, thought processes, and so on and then the community decides if they are capable of presenting CCP with the 'right' ideas and not the 'horrible' ideas. As I stated in previous post, DUST did get somewhat shafted in this transition. It wasn't intentional, but it is what happened, and compensation can only go so far, so in reference to my own goals. Bringing as much of the Legion experience to DUST is a central part of what I want to do for DUST 514 on the CPM. In addition, making Legion the game we all hoped and believed DUST 514 would be in the future. Once you go Black, you just never go back!
Ludvig Enraga KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 1066	Posted - 2014.05.07 03:41:00 - [10] - Quote The battle is lost (through betrayal by the commanding general). What else is there to talk about? All things 'EVE' can burn in hell now as far as I am concerned, and PS3 community in a large part thinks likewise. Most ppl played this because it was on PS. PLC, NK, Scout - before 1.8. That's right, I stack that OP Sh!t.

Appia Vibbia Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2336	Posted - 2014.05.07 03:49:00 - [11] - Quote PoP SoTa wrote: Are you our representatives or are you the representatives to CCP's desire for FPS? I just can't seem to grasp why you guys are pushing towards Legion so hard when it's just a 'prototype' For something not even green lit - there's way too much focus on transfers. You guys want to bail that quick to PC? And, please, don't throw me that line of, "But it'll come to PS4 eventually!" What community represantive would be cool with seeing it's community torn in half for a game that could literally be called it's duplicate? If CPM were really looking out for us - why are they not pushing for the PC release to be held back until there's a PS4 port so we can all hop over together at same time? Logically, I just see this as CPM betraying us. They argue me just tunnel vision and blind - but they seem to forget I'm not looking towards a new game, I only care about what's here in front of me, not some 'if' dream of tomorrow. I care about the COMMUNITY of today. What matters is here and now. So what is it CPM and Candidates, are you trust worthy to us Console goers? Because you guys all look pretty slimy right now. I don't own a PS4, I don't own a gaming computer, all I have is my PS3. They won't get the same dedicated following if they switch to PC. A lot of "loud" voices on the forum know to make sure of that but most of them have left. "The only reason I played was because of what I thought the game could become and wanting to help get it there." I keep seeing that exact phrase used over and over again. I still want DUST to be the game it is supposed to be. I honestly don't care about Legion. I really just expect it to turn out like WoD MMO, infinite development and then dropped. Lots of people are saying that DUST has a shelf life of 2-3 years left BECAUSE it is on the PS3. Well then enough with the doom and gloom, I want this game to continue to exist and I strive for its improvement until that time. Appia Vibbia for CPM1 AppiaVibbia(at)gmail(dot)com AKA Nappia, AKA Mathppia
ANON Cerberus Tiny Toons 584	Posted - 2014.05.08 17:35:00 - [12] - Quote Why is is that there is this notion that PS4 is somehow where the game should be? Consoles suck huge donkey ****. PC is the platform the game should have been on to begin with. You console players can either get / use a PC or not. PS4 OR PC either way its still separate hardware that is required. The PC is in my opinion a much better choice. Markdown:
PoP SoTa Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 241	Posted - 2014.05.08 19:17:00 - [13] - Quote ANON Cerberus wrote: Why is is that there is this notion that PS4 is somehow where the game should be? Consoles suck huge donkey ****. PC is the platform the game should have been on to begin with. You console players can either get / use a PC or not. PS4 OR PC either way its still separate hardware that is required. The PC is in my opinion a much better choice. If you wanted to say PC Master race you should of. Would of saved me the time reading your drivel. Also do your research on PS4 - PC master race idiots ignorance on the system is appalling.
Hynox Xitio 0uter.Heaven 948	Posted - 2014.05.08 21:40:00 - [14] - Quote In my infinite wisdom and enlightenment, I have come here to inform you that this anger on the forums is due to very simple factors. In the ancient days of old, Theodore Roosevelt created EVE Online, as well as the disciples who play it. In their minds, Dust 514 is the antichrist. In order to fulfill their religious duty to our greatest president, they had Dust destroyed. And thats the end of the story. EVE will always win. Unleash the Fogwoggler. ( -íº -£-û -íº) /)
Killar-12 OLDSPICE. Top Men. 2759	Posted - 2014.05.09 12:57:00 - [15] - Quote Hynox Xitio wrote: In my infinite wisdom and enlightenment, I have come here to inform you that this anger on the forums is due to very simple factors. In the ancient days of old, Theodore Roosevelt created EVE Online, as well as the disciples who play it. In their minds, Dust 514 is the antichrist. In order to fulfill their religious duty to our greatest president, they had Dust destroyed. And thats the end of the story. EVE will always win. SILENCE, THEODORE ROOSEVELT DOES NOT APPROVE!!!!!!!!!! Images... GOML
Laurent Cazaderon What The French Red Whines. 2287	Posted - 2014.05.09 13:04:00 - [16] - Quote PoP SoTa wrote: Are you our representatives or are you the representatives to CCP's desire for FPS? I just can't seem to grasp why you guys are pushing towards Legion so hard when it's just a 'prototype' For something not even green lit - there's way too much focus on transfers. You guys want to bail that quick to PC? And, please, don't throw me that line of, "But it'll come to PS4 eventually!" What community represantive would be cool with seeing it's community torn in half for a game that could literally be called it's duplicate? If CPM were really looking out for us - why are they not pushing for the PC release to be held back until there's a PS4 port so we can all hop over together at same time? Logically, I just see this as CPM betraying us. They argue me just tunnel vision and blind - but they seem to forget I'm not looking towards a new game, I only care about what's here in front of me, not some 'if' dream of tomorrow. I care about the COMMUNITY of today. What matters is here and now. So what is it CPM and Candidates, are you trust worthy to us Console goers? Because you guys all look pretty slimy right now. Dont bother dude. Been there, said that. He, though forbidden by the Codex, was a Precursor. He tried the Replication of Chromosomes. He led to an Uprising


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