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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 6 post(s) |
Nemesis 888
Da Short Buss
RISE of LEGION
2
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Posted - 2014.05.07 00:39:00 -
[1] - Quote
Quote:A decent PC capable of running BF4 will cost way more than a ps4.
A decent PC capable of running BF4 will cost more than a PS4's initial purchase cost, but you can play BF4 on it whenever you want without having to keep paying a subscription fee every month. By the time you've been playing for a year, the cost is going to be close to even, if not unbalanced in favour of the PC being the cheaper option.[/quote]
You're jumping the gun here a bit on the issue of total cost. You're assuming Legion will be F2P, just like DUST514. How do you know it won't move to a subcription model like EVE instead?
I totally understand why all the console players are going apeshit over this. Yes, a PC can be very cheap to build, but that only applies to using it for email or to browse the web. If you want a good gaming rig, it will cost more than any console now or in the future. How many EVE players are still playing on the same PC they started EVE on? I'm willing to bet many have put in significant investments into their rigs and continue to do so as EVE has progressed in both game and graphical complexity.
Also I tend to agree that the PS4 and XBOX ONE are closer to PCs in their current archeitecture than any previous generation consoles. They both use AMD CPUs and ATI graphics cores. Unreal4 has been ported to work on these consoles, so there is not a great technical limitation to getting Legion running on all these platforms - IF the proper planning was done ahead of time for this. The only real limitation is the limited memory available and that should only affect the graphical quality due to the necessity of using lower quality textures. |
Nemesis 888
Da Short Buss
RISE of LEGION
2
|
Posted - 2014.05.07 01:23:00 -
[2] - Quote
Ghural wrote:So if we don't actually get to keep all our stuff (CCP has told lies before), the community will ensure that Legion will be a failure.
You have been warned. Again.
What is it about CCP execs that they feel they don't need to listen to the playerbase/CPM?
The general term used to describe this is ARROGANCE (or stupidity take your pick).
But to be more specific, the bigger problem lies in the fact that the company as a whole spent too much time listening to EVE players and not enough time listening to the community that plays this game. Why? Probably because they make way more money with EVE than they did on DUST.
I'm not trying to dis on EVE players as I know there are quite a few that play DUST as well - but DUST514 had to stand on its own as a game with all the things promised by CCP, instead of it becoming whatever it was the EVE players wanted it to be. Frankly, many EVE players didn't support or understand consoles or the necessity of DUST514 on the PS3 in the first place. It's no wonder that CCP made a mess of DUST because they were listening to the wrong userbase.
I own consoles and a PC gaming rig both, but truthfully, I find myself using my consoles for gaming more than my PC. The reason is that I prefer to spend my money on games rather than the necessity of continuing to upgrade my PC for the next big thing that just pushed the hardware requirements that much higher. Great graphics doesn't make a good game. A good game is what makes a good game.
I read an argument somewhere on this forum that there are more FPSs being played on PCs than on consoles, therefore that is why Legion belongs on a PC. I call BS on that. All the heavy hitters are already on the PC. What makes CCP so sure they can win the battle for eyeballs in such a competitive landscape? EVE makes up a much smaller subset of the eyeballs that CCP would be competing for and that's CCP's most readily addressable market. Put another way, in warfare you hit the enemy where they are weakest, you don't rush headlong into their main strength to get decimated.
An MMO shooter with connection to a persistent universe, cross-platform continues to be unique in the console space. I believe the original strategic thinking by CCP on this was actually correct. The problem was that the PS3 lacked the power and was too difficult to develop on for a company with a strong PC development background. That changes with the next-gen consoles. Admittedly, development on consoles can be a bit limiting, even on the new, next-gen boxes; but there are advantages as well.
The biggest is that you have an unchanging target platform. With enough QA testing *COUGH COUGH*, you can be assured that the code will run correctly on the vast majority of the target platforms. The PC space is difficult specifically because no two PCs are alike. Problems with a game not working can stem from pretty much anything from outdated drivers to port blocking by your favorite antivirus/firewall software.
Did I mention that there is less competition for CCP in the console space?
The addressable market on the PS3 is over 80m units worldwide. I suspect that over time, the PS4 will equal or surpass those numbers. You can double that if you want to add in the XBOX ONE as well since both boxes are more alike than different. I suspect Microsoft may be a bit more open this time around to CCP putting DUST 2.0 on their Live service due to their own marketing issues with the XBOX ONE. In the next decade I would hazard a guess of a total addressable market between PS4 and XBOX ONE of at least 160m units. The key difference is that there would be relatively fewer competitors in that space for CCP than if they were to try and slug it out on the PC side.
You grow your business by bringing completely new players into the fold, not by trying to re-address your already existing userbase. That is the truest argument I can make to this whole issue.
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Nemesis 888
Da Short Buss
RISE of LEGION
2
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Posted - 2014.05.07 01:48:00 -
[3] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:[quote=Kev Crow][quote=Garrett Blacknova]
It isn't release-ready, and I've gone on record MANY times saying as much.
It's not finished, the code is nowhere near what it needs in the way of optimisation for the PS3.
There are multiplayer games on PS3 running in the same game engine CCP used which have (or had in the defunct cases) smooth gameplay, wider FOV, better graphics and still don't cause overheating problems for the console.
The problems with DUST aren't inherently because the PS3 can't handle what CCP wanted to make. The problem is that CCP's programmers haven't been able to do what other developers can with the same system.
I tend to agree with this. CCP must have done some viability studies to ensure that what they envisioned for DUST514 would be possible to do on the PS3 platform and on PSN. No one walks blindly into failure, unless they're completely incompetent or stupid or both.
From the development side, CCP has two problems. The first is that they just don't have enough people. The second, is that they don't have enough people with experience progamming the PS3. I've seen some incredibly complex open world games and shooters done on the PS3: Red Dead Redemption, GTA V, Borderlands 2, Call of Duty, Battlefield, etc. The only real limitation is the quality of the graphics, not in what you can or can't do with the game code.
I believe that what CCP originally envisioned for the game is possible on the PS3, they just couldn't get it done. I believe that the game can run better but CCP just didn't know how to optimize for the PS3. In that respect, CCP has let us all down. They over-promised and under-delivered and in the process created a vicious cycle of declining revenues/player base that didn't warrant further development efforts. |
Nemesis 888
Da Short Buss
RISE of LEGION
2
|
Posted - 2014.05.07 02:24:00 -
[4] - Quote
Meric Voyer wrote:Pliny Eldritch wrote:This... This is just stupid. It's not like this is the first time a change in course from CCP has caused rage and drama, and it sure as &$^% won't be the last. What's sad is that it could have been different this time. As a community, we're all on the same page with CCP about what Dust is lacking. Many of us also agree that the PS3 has started it's long slow slide to oblivion, and that investing massive resources into it is a waste. You could also probably get most of us to admit that the current Dust player base isn't big enough to justify serious ongoing investment. Where things have gone wrong is CCP falling for one of the oldest logical fallacies in Software Engineering. When dealing with a large project that is not working, with no obvious or easy fixes, the answer that always feels easiest is to tear it down and start over. It's also almost always the wrong answer. Dust is broken. But it's still making money. People are playing it, and they're still paying to play it. CCP should take a page from Square Enix's successful reboot of FFXIV. For those unfamiliar, there are some real parallels between the first FFXIV's failure and Dust's current situation. Instead of trying to keep Dust limping along on PS3 while trying to develop an entirely new game on PC, CCP should strongly consider putting Dust on life support now. Keep a couple of devs for critical balance and bug fixes, and give the community some tasty discounts to keep them paying and playing. Use the freed-up devs to expedite a port of the then feature-frozen Dust from Unreal Engine 3 to Unreal Engine 4. Build for both PC and PS4 (as well as the XBone if MS is willing to play ball) simultaneously. It will take longer on the QA end, but if Epic has done their job properly with UE 4, the same code should run on both platforms. Doing both at once makes the Console/PC decision much less expensive in both money and time than porting later. Resist the temptation to do anything but get Dust running on the new systems. Once Dust is playable on PS4 and PC, give PS3 Dust a Matrix Online style send-off. Instead of making people worry about their investments of time and Aurum and how they might transfer into a new game, make the PC and PS4 ports use the same character data. Then start refactoring in all the Project Legion goodness, respeccing and resetting as needed - just like EVE's evolution. ^ Sensible solution. CCP has no sense though, so yeah....
Someone at CCP should hire this guy to be the Game Director for DUST/Legion.
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Nemesis 888
Da Short Buss
RISE of LEGION
3
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Posted - 2014.05.07 03:29:00 -
[5] - Quote
Joey - Drien wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:IN CAPS SO THIS IS UNDERSTOOD.....
MOST OF US DON'T GIVE A **** ABOUT LEGION. WE ARE CONSOLE PLAYERS NOT PC PLAYERS.
If Legion becomes a reality, we won't be transitioning to pc for it. Now, you may not care because there are some eve players that will play it and a few others. But you will definitely lose the core group of guys who have been spending hundreds of dollars on dust and helping you guys with the fps design learning curve. Now, you may say, "fugg the console players, there are plenty of pc players that we can tap into"....but then be honest about it. You console players have to understand, that adding bigger stuff into dust would cause the console to explode, they are already struggling with the performance as it is. Dust is by far the maximum what can console handle in mmo, it would perform better in singleplayer. Consoles are made for fast, easy and fun games ...
Where do you get your information from? According to you only games like Angry Birds would exist on consoles. Are you forgetting games like GTA V on PS3 offered a large virtual sandbox to play in? Have you seen GTA V for the PC yet? I haven't.
Are you forgetting the fact that Battlefield 4 is drawing higher quality graphics on PS3 with larger FOV and longer drawing distances than DUST and still averages a much better framerate?
The problem isn't the capability of the consoles, my friend. It's the capability of the developer. |
Nemesis 888
Da Short Buss
RISE of LEGION
3
|
Posted - 2014.05.07 03:36:00 -
[6] - Quote
tastzlike chicken wrote:Quote:When it comes to DUST development I can tell you that we are currently looking at changes to Planetary Conquest, further iterating on item balance after Uprising 1.8 and some matchmaking improvements With only half of the hamsters than were previously assigned to Dust "development' (fixes and balancing); is it safe to assume that the speed and responsiveness we've come to expect from the DUST Dev team will suffer?
You're trying to be funny right? Tell me this comment was a joke. |
Nemesis 888
Da Short Buss
RISE of LEGION
3
|
Posted - 2014.05.07 03:41:00 -
[7] - Quote
sammus420 wrote:And how about the 5 year future that CCP was 'confident' about for dust, and all the stuff they talked about in this article? http://www.destructoid.com/ccp-confident-about-dust-514-s-five-year-future-255455.phtmlQuote:In its current iteration, Dust 514 is a competitive, player-vs.-player, deathmatch-based affair. However, CCP Shanghai are working on cooperative, player-vs.-environment modes that they hope will encourage corporation-level play: "Survival" is a wave-based Horde mode, and "Infestation" will involve scouring any enemies trying to establish a toehold in corporation-controlled districts.
In both modes, groups of players will fight against drones, the so-called "rats" or "mobs" of Dust 514, to gather money and other resources. The idea is that these PvE modes will give players and corps new entry points into the robust in-game economy that ties Dust 514 and EVE Online together. Eventually, CCP plans to implement space elevators to carry those resources from the planetary surfaces of Dust to the orbiting fleets of EVE, linking the two games physically as well as thematically, economically, and structurally.
Other upcoming modes include GÇ£Penetration,GÇ¥ which will allow Dust mercenaries to raid and board EVEGÇÖs Titan-class warships, and GÇ£Gladiator,GÇ¥ a set of organized tournaments that will include in-game betting and streaming. Quote:GÇ£GÇÿUprisingGÇÖ is not the end of the major, free updates. WeGÇÖve got quite a few more planned for the rest of 2013 and then out for two years, out for five years, out for ten years, just like EVE.GÇ¥ Oh and here's a GREAT quote, what happened to this? Quote:GÇ£This is the way that CCP does a game,GÇ¥ says Laurino. GÇ£WeGÇÖll never make a Dust 514-2, right?"
Nice one.
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Nemesis 888
Da Short Buss
RISE of LEGION
3
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Posted - 2014.05.07 03:47:00 -
[8] - Quote
Hey, thanks for the questions and for pointing that stuff out. As part of my responsibilities beyond the email newsletters and trolling the CPM, I also am now looking after all the content on the website. Seems we have some edits to make, obviously, as a result of all that has been going down recently.
One of which you have highlighted here - some of that information is out of date in that we won't be making a PS Vita companion app for DUST 514. I'm going to get the website to reflect the current state of affairs with as much as we know for certain for now.[/quote]
How can you guys be so out of date with your own information that the public knows about it before you do? And really, do you think we REALLY care about the status of a VITA app considering what has been going down the past few days? |
Nemesis 888
Da Short Buss
RISE of LEGION
3
|
Posted - 2014.05.07 04:05:00 -
[9] - Quote
Vrain Matari wrote:CCP Rouge wrote:Hi everyone. Me again.
... My own reaction to our current situation is much the same as Reav's. The move to development on PC is a logical imperative, there is nothing to argue with there. What is infuriating and distasteful is the way CCP has chosen to deceive and mistreat players. These are people who have invested heavily in a deeply flawed and poorly reviewed product for the sake of contributing in whatever ways they could to the development process and doing their part to help achieve the original vision for DUST 514. There are no excuses here, only choices and consequences. The developers are all adults and know how to treat people right. The behavior of CCP in this instance is nonsensical since their entire business is based around building long-term relationships with players. At any rate i'm retiring from New Eden, DUST and EVE both, and will find other ways to get my VR kick than Valkyrie. Legion will be my reentry to New Eden, if and only if CCP demonstrates a newfound respect for the people who invest in their products, elevates open communication on these forums to EVE standards, and makes redress for their cynical mistreatment of their DUST playerbase.
Well said! |
Nemesis 888
Da Short Buss
RISE of LEGION
4
|
Posted - 2014.05.07 04:10:00 -
[10] - Quote
ANON Cerberus wrote:Void Echo wrote:Regardless of character and asset transfers, if your not going to bring Legion to the PS4 in the future (IDC when as long as it doesnt interfeer with my dust gameplay) then dont bother with trying to make it look nice for dust payers.
Dust 514 is strictly a CONSOLE GAME, NOT A PC GAME, and anything pertaining to a PC release and no word on whats happening to console releases is straight up microsoft style bullshit. I will NOT join Legion if it doesn't end up on PS4 and nether will ALOT of your dust playerbase.
I have no intention of becoming a PC FPS player for any reason. Making Legion look like a PC only game was one of the worst mistakes youv ever made as a company. Your alienating your console players by saying "If you want to stay, switch to PC".
Character transfers are the least of concerns for those of us who have no intention of going to PC. Either MAKE plans for PS4 version of Legion or your can say goodby to alot of dust players when this hits. And EVE was strictly a PC game not a console game. Now you PS3 players know how us EVE players felt when we found out DUST was going to be a console game and not on CCP`s home turf = the PC. I understand that for console players, this turn of events is shocking and surprising. Its surprising for me too considering I have been moaning for a PC version of dust for years. However Legion is going to be where it belongs, on PC along with EVE. I see that as truly the best way to guarantee the games can have interconnected meaningful gameplay experiences. I always had doubts about console to pc interaction. EDIT - TO THE POSTER ABOVE ME - A reasonable gaming PC can be built or bought for a similar price to the PS4 or Xbox 1. There are many people on the forums as well as many many good websites that demonstrate this. Sure you can spend way more on a PC if you want everything, all the peripherals, top of the range GPU and CPU but by then its big money but you will get extreme performance too. You dont need to spend loads, a decent enough PC can be built for the same money as a PS4.
Really? I've been building PCs for years and I've never built a decent one for the price of what a PS4 goes for. Wouldn't I just end up with PS4 like performance? What's the point of that?
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Nemesis 888
Da Short Buss
RISE of LEGION
4
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Posted - 2014.05.07 04:51:00 -
[11] - Quote
Vargralor wrote:Nemesis 888 wrote:Meric Voyer wrote:Pliny Eldritch wrote:This... This is just stupid. It's not like this is the first time a change in course from CCP has caused rage and drama, and it sure as &$^% won't be the last. What's sad is that it could have been different this time. As a community, we're all on the same page with CCP about what Dust is lacking. Many of us also agree that the PS3 has started it's long slow slide to oblivion, and that investing massive resources into it is a waste. You could also probably get most of us to admit that the current Dust player base isn't big enough to justify serious ongoing investment. Where things have gone wrong is CCP falling for one of the oldest logical fallacies in Software Engineering. When dealing with a large project that is not working, with no obvious or easy fixes, the answer that always feels easiest is to tear it down and start over. It's also almost always the wrong answer. Dust is broken. But it's still making money. People are playing it, and they're still paying to play it. CCP should take a page from Square Enix's successful reboot of FFXIV. For those unfamiliar, there are some real parallels between the first FFXIV's failure and Dust's current situation. Instead of trying to keep Dust limping along on PS3 while trying to develop an entirely new game on PC, CCP should strongly consider putting Dust on life support now. Keep a couple of devs for critical balance and bug fixes, and give the community some tasty discounts to keep them paying and playing. Use the freed-up devs to expedite a port of the then feature-frozen Dust from Unreal Engine 3 to Unreal Engine 4. Build for both PC and PS4 (as well as the XBone if MS is willing to play ball) simultaneously. It will take longer on the QA end, but if Epic has done their job properly with UE 4, the same code should run on both platforms. Doing both at once makes the Console/PC decision much less expensive in both money and time than porting later. Resist the temptation to do anything but get Dust running on the new systems. Once Dust is playable on PS4 and PC, give PS3 Dust a Matrix Online style send-off. Instead of making people worry about their investments of time and Aurum and how they might transfer into a new game, make the PC and PS4 ports use the same character data. Then start refactoring in all the Project Legion goodness, respeccing and resetting as needed - just like EVE's evolution. ^ Sensible solution. CCP has no sense though, so yeah.... Someone at CCP should hire this guy to be the Game Director for DUST/Legion. This would certainly be a good approach if Dust was a good starting point for developing Legion. Unfortunately, as pointed out in several of the Dev comments, changing Dust from what it is now (a lobby shooter) in to a sandbox environment integrated tightly with EVE (the stated eventual goal) is not simply a matter of patching in additional functionality. The entire underlying core of the game has to change. Once you start to look at it in that vein it does make more sense to start again and simply reuse components of Dust where possible. Let's look at battles for instance. Have a good think about what a sandbox playstyle really means. The current battle system would be an anomaly in the new world. The sort of thing used for tournaments and events. In a sandbox environment, two relatively balanced teams only match up against each other if someone f*cked up bigtime.
I don't think it's realistic to wish for PVE anymore. However, I do believe that during the transition period CCP owes the dedicated community additional content, most of which would probably be developed for Legion anyway. I'm talking about additional weapons, vehicles and dropsuits, along with any further tweaking and balancing required. I don't think that would be too unreasonable to ask for. |
Nemesis 888
Da Short Buss
RISE of LEGION
4
|
Posted - 2014.05.07 04:53:00 -
[12] - Quote
Pliny Eldritch wrote:Nemesis 888 wrote:Someone at CCP should hire this guy to be the Game Director for DUST/Legion. Not just no, but ^$%# no. My liver couldn't take it.
Hey! Whatever happened to taking one for the team?!? |
Nemesis 888
Da Short Buss
RISE of LEGION
21
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Posted - 2014.05.16 06:28:00 -
[13] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:xXx Nemesis xXx wrote:Marc Rime wrote:CCP Rouge wrote:
Other stuff you want us to jump on that can have a direct impact on gameplay quality.
Fix the bug with bullet impact that's causing the "sloth-effect." My theory on what's causing it (because surely it can't be intentional ;)): It seems that the bullet-force, when applied to a character, temporarily resets the force applied by the controller, meaning you slow down even when running away from the enemy (really the hits should make you move away even faster if anything). Even though movement-force gets re-applied instantaneously, the acceleration-delay of the movement controls means you won't reach your full speed before the next bullet hits, again resetting your speed. You've never heard of "Bullet Time"? Bullet time is when the bullets slow down and you keep moving normally so you can dodge them. When you get slowed down and the bullets keep moving at normal speed, that's the exact opposite of what bullet time means. It's also what happens when you get shot in DUST.
Dude you're too serious! I was j/k!! :D |
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