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The-Errorist
660
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Posted - 2014.05.01 06:11:00 -
[1] - Quote
Autoaim Bot514 wrote:ZDub 303 wrote:Cotsy wrote:4. I pointed out major issues with tiericide, i think the idea is garbage. I don't think any player should have a massive advantage over another, the more you balance the game upon skill the better. Making suit tier restrictions will limit the game greatly. SKILL SHOULD BE THE ADVANTAGE, not whether or not you have more SP and SP related advantages. Let me give you two scenarios and you tell me which scenario has a larger power differential between two players. Scenario 1: New player in a standard logi suit with a full set of standard mods, weapon, and equipment against a fully core skilled player wearing a proto logi suit with a full suite of complex modules, full passives on those modules, a proto weapon, and a mix of adv and proto equipment. vs Scenario 2: New player in a proto suit with a full suite of standard modules, weapon, and equipment and against that same prototype player. Considering logi suits already have a suit bonus, the bonus differential remains the same. 1 level of 'racial' logi bonus vs the full 5 levels of 'racial' logi bonus. In which case is the new player at a larger disadvantage compared to the veteran player in a 1v1? This is what I've been saying. It doesnt close the gap totally, but it does make it alot better for new players. It'll at the very least put them in a position where if they have better gun game, they will come out on top, not where they get stomped because they only have 50% HP than those proto players. WHY DONT PEOPLE UNDERSTAND THIS??!?!? I'm beginning to think people are against tiericide because they want to continue to be able to farm new players for their KDRs.
Probably.
Vrain Matari wrote:As a vet who only runs STD or sometimes ADV, I relish /loathe the idea of having an inexpensive basic suit with lots of slots to maximally leverage my fully completed Dropsuit Upgrades tab.
I suppose the downside is that under tiericide, i will have no choice but to be a protstomping d!ckhead.
I wonder how many other vets feel the same way.
You don't have to use proto modules, equipment, weapons, or the highest tier suit, you could still just use low tier stuff like standard and militia instead of proto-stomping. If you did proto-stomp under tiercide, it wouldn't be that bad anyway since the difference of the suit slots and PG/CPU would be like prototype vs advanced.
Gaelon Thrace wrote:Tiericide has nothing to do with matchmaking. Tiericide and tier based matchmaking are diametrically opposed. You can't have tier based matchmaking without tiers. Please stop misrepresenting tiericide.
He's just a hater that likes the statas quo and he's just trying to confuse people into thinking tiercide would do the exact opposite of make what it's trying to do. |
The-Errorist
662
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Posted - 2014.05.01 17:24:00 -
[2] - Quote
Glantix Karmic-Snow wrote:
You make a valid point, though I feel Cotsy's idea has more merit and will work better than teircide.
Now I can honestly say I have never played EVE, or any the other more popular FPS.
What I can also say is people seem to be over dramatising the basic to proto difference. Trust me, we are branching in to my area of expertise more or less.
For the past eight months of me playing, I have biomassed over 100 different characters that I treated as my main, many of which had over 1 mil sp each. I have once, and only once, ever skilled into an advanced suit. As someone who has been running new player level basic gear for eight months, I know what it is like to be outmatched.
Now my play group includes someone who is in a similar situation to me, except he is sitting around 2.5 mil sp and has an adv suit. There are two other people in my typical group, a very experience player who commonly uses his alt which almost has proto gear, and a new player with 2.5 mil sp aswell. Us four typically do very well, and being outmatched in gear doesn't usually equal losing the game. In fact, it usually takes a full squad of proto or good adv gear with excellent teamwork to actually give us a run for our money.
To summarize, the tier system we have now is actually working pretty well, and tiercide is in no way necessary. In fact, PVE is really the one thing we need and we will be pretty solid when it comes to balance.
As always, Glantix / Snow
So what you're saying is that the difference between standard and prototype isn't that much, that these don't make much of a difference?
175 CPU
39 PG
3 Highs
3 Lows
Even if it doesn't make much much of difference for some, for most players it does. In opposition of having an SP based matchmaking system, I have these things to say: you even said it yourself that you and other experienced players who use low SP characters can do well against groups of people who have enough SP to use proto, so how can you honestly say that just having more SP makes one a more skilled player and should be used to match players? Lastly, how would adding PVE balance PVP?
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The-Errorist
672
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Posted - 2014.05.04 01:47:00 -
[3] - Quote
Glantix Karmic-Snow wrote:The-Errorist wrote:Glantix Karmic-Snow wrote:
You make a valid point, though I feel Cotsy's idea has more merit and will work better than teircide.
Now I can honestly say I have never played EVE, or any the other more popular FPS.
What I can also say is people seem to be over dramatising the basic to proto difference. Trust me, we are branching in to my area of expertise more or less.
For the past eight months of me playing, I have biomassed over 100 different characters that I treated as my main, many of which had over 1 mil sp each. I have once, and only once, ever skilled into an advanced suit. As someone who has been running new player level basic gear for eight months, I know what it is like to be outmatched.
Now my play group includes someone who is in a similar situation to me, except he is sitting around 2.5 mil sp and has an adv suit. There are two other people in my typical group, a very experience player who commonly uses his alt which almost has proto gear, and a new player with 2.5 mil sp aswell. Us four typically do very well, and being outmatched in gear doesn't usually equal losing the game. In fact, it usually takes a full squad of proto or good adv gear with excellent teamwork to actually give us a run for our money.
To summarize, the tier system we have now is actually working pretty well, and tiercide is in no way necessary. In fact, PVE is really the one thing we need and we will be pretty solid when it comes to balance.
As always, Glantix / Snow
So what you're saying is that the difference between standard and prototype isn't that much, that these don't make much of a difference? 175 CPU 39 PG 3 Highs 3 Lows Even if it doesn't make much much of difference for some, for most players it does. In opposition of having an SP based matchmaking system, I have these things to say: you even said it yourself that you and other experienced players who use low SP characters can do well against groups of people who have enough SP to use proto, so how can you honestly say that just having more SP makes one a more skilled player and should be used to match players? Lastly, how would adding PVE balance PVP? I am not saying that the difference between proto and standard is small, in fact quite the contrary. I'm saying that the jump towards proto is a large one, so new players can feel like they are closing the gap. I am not saying that we need an sp based matchmaking system, I am saying that an sp based matchmaking system would work better than tiercide. Honestly, I am against both you guys and Cotsy, I thin kthat the system works fine the way it is, to an extent. I feel that adding PVE would give a way for the new players to avoid the vets and slowly make their way towards vet level. Adding PVE would probably have some negative impacts on PVP initially, due to a large influx of players moving towards PVE at the beginning to try it out. So to sum it up, I don't support anyone but myself, and PVE is the solution. Sincerely, Glantix / Snow
PVE is not coming to dust and you did say "people seem to be over dramatising the basic to proto difference." |
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