DUST Search - Identity Theft is NOT meta game: A PSA

Sigberct Amni wrote:

ratamaq doc wrote:

BS Goon. Contacting a company mascarading as the victim in order to obtain gain access to an accout that contains personal information for purposes of using that acocut as the victim is the very definition of Identity Theft through Social Engineering. The definition provided by the U.S. DOJ is "Identity theft and identity fraud are terms used to refer to all types of crime in which someone wrongfully obtains and uses another person's personal data in some way that involves fraud or deception, typically for economic gain."

While CCP may encourage this type of activity IN GAME, (you know, like they encourage murder) outside of the game is a crime and is illegal in many countries.

ratamaq doc wrote:

The definition provided by the U.S. DOJ is "Identity theft and identity fraud are terms used to refer to all types of crime in which someone wrongfully obtains and uses another person's personal data in some way that involves fraud or deception, typically for economic gain."

ratamaq doc wrote:

crime in which someone wrongfully obtains and uses another person's personal data in some way that involves fraud or deception, typically for economic gain."

ratamaq doc wrote:

some way that involves fraud or deception, typically for economic gain."

it's like the horse leads itself to water but won't drink it.

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ratamaq doc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 563	Posted - 2014.04.30 15:32:00 - [1] - Quote Although I have not seen a thread about this yet, I'm hearing through back channels that a Corp Wallet was stolen via a member gaining access to a users PSN accout. The corp will remain nameless for the moment, but let me give this community a little Public Service Anouncement. This is not meta game, This is a crime. In many contries this Crime comes with mandatory probation (if offender is a minor) or jail time. From what I understand, a player who new enough about the corp CEO called Sony and had their password reset. Logged into the users account, then transfered off the corp wallet. Some of you fools may think or say "Welcome to New Eden!" with out realizing that in the US, this action will have the FBI at your door with a nice little prosecution from the FTC. What just took place was a Social Engineering attack on a Global company for the purposes of Identity Theft and (due to the ability of a PSN accout to hold financial accout information) Financial Fraud. Don't think for a moment that "But this is just a game" is going to be a defence that will stop an investigation or hold up in court. If you are under age, how does not being about to touch a computer for 5 years sound? An adult? Jail time. Both the U.S. and more so the E.U. take Identity Theft very seriously and love quick wins like this that are easy to investigate and prosecute. So a little advice. If you are, or become a victim of Identity in this game or anywhere else, research your local government agencies that handle cyber crime and report it. Don't contact CCP or Sony, the agencies that are mandated to investigate will take care of that. If you think this is cute or just part of the meta game, wake up to the fact that we in cyber defence take this crime very seriously and even if you are "Just a kid playing a game" they will come down hard on you just to prove a point. Don't be surprised if Sony themselves also press an investigation. After the fiasco that was PSN getting hacked a few years back they are very sensitive to embarrassment. YouTube
Soldner VonKuechle SAM-MIK General Tso's Alliance 655	Posted - 2014.04.30 15:41:00 - [2] - Quote some CWJr level assholery right there. Variety is already dead; you either proto to fight/stomp or BPO to grind isk. If not, you're lying.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8183	Posted - 2014.04.30 16:19:00 - [3] - Quote To further expand on the OP's statement, CCP has drawn a fine line between the meta game and real-world crimes. CCP does allows things like corp theft, scams, extortion, as well as ransoming other players as part of the meta game. However, CCP DOESN'T in any way/shape/form allow things like breaking into someone's account. Just like the Sony PSN accounts, Eve accounts also carry personally identifiable information. So even though it is perfectly legal to CCP for someone for steal your corp wallet and assets using in-game means provided by CCP, just remember that it becomes ILLEGAL and is considered a real-world crime if account hacking was involved. EDIT: One more thing, CCP has a dedicated security team that handles the hunting and dismantling of illegal RMT operations in New Eden. One such case involved a guy who hacked into a player's Eve account and tried to later hack into said player's bank account only to have the FBI in the US and the Russian authorities pinpoint the perpetrator to his home and then find out he was also running a drug smuggling operation using RMT money gained in Eve. Dedicated Scout // Ninja Knifer Everything I know about the Caldari I learned at Nouvelle Rouvenor
Dexter307 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar 1535	Posted - 2014.04.30 16:22:00 - [4] - Quote Wait, so I can't do illegal stuff on the internet? Better hide my internet blackjack and internet hookers
Sigberct Amni Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 679	Posted - 2014.04.30 16:34:00 - [5] - Quote You need to pump your brakes ratamaq. This isn't identity theft in any form of the phrase. Good of you to throw it around like buzzwords in a corporate sales meeting though. If anything, the CEO is in violation for sharing his account info as well. Sony and CCP could easily just ban both people and wash their hands of it. What they actually do though, is up to them and your wall of text means nothing. Finally, let me clearly say that I don't think this is 'metagaming' at all. This is 100% over the line but is not illegal.
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 13194	Posted - 2014.04.30 16:36:00 - [6] - Quote I should hope you sent the details to CCP / the proper authorities if you're privy to them, to speed this along. My Music Videos & Fan Fiction Incubus, Gallente Proud
Takron Nistrom Tinfoil Hatz 393	Posted - 2014.04.30 16:41:00 - [7] - Quote Sigberct Amni wrote: You need to pump your brakes ratamaq. This isn't identity theft in any form of the phrase. Good of you to throw it around like buzzwords in a corporate sales meeting though. If anything, the CEO is in violation for sharing his account info as well. Sony and CCP could easily just ban both people and wash their hands of it. What they actually do though, is up to them and your wall of text means nothing. Finally, let me clearly say that I don't think this is 'metagaming' at all. This is 100% over the line but is not illegal. I believe Mittani said, and I paraphrase, "...1 inch further than your enemy is willing to go." GÇ£Pulvis et umbra sumus. (We are but dust and shadow.)GÇ¥ GÇò Horace, The Odes of Horace
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8187	Posted - 2014.04.30 16:59:00 - [8] - Quote Sigberct Amni wrote: You need to pump your brakes ratamaq. This isn't identity theft in any form of the phrase. Good of you to throw it around like buzzwords in a corporate sales meeting though. If anything, the CEO is in violation for sharing his account info as well. Sony and CCP could easily just ban both people and wash their hands of it. What they actually do though, is up to them and your wall of text means nothing. Finally, let me clearly say that I don't think this is 'metagaming' at all. This is 100% over the line but is not illegal. Please read the OP. The case he described involved the hacker calling Sony to reset the password using information that he gained probably via fishing. If the CEO is at fault for sharing his account credentials, the hacker wouldn't need to even bother to call Sony to reset the password. Admittedly some players in Eve do share account credentials especially involving Super Carrier and Titan pilots. But that's a different case and often times the worst that could happen is a ban and nothing more since both parties would be complicit. Dedicated Scout // Ninja Knifer Everything I know about the Caldari I learned at Nouvelle Rouvenor
Alex-P-Keaton Kramer Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 144	Posted - 2014.04.30 17:04:00 - [9] - Quote http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faFmugQPCyk thats how they did it i like to go to craigslist and look at the personal ad's transexuals put up
ratamaq doc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 570	Posted - 2014.04.30 17:06:00 - [10] - Quote Sigberct Amni wrote: You need to pump your brakes ratamaq. This isn't identity theft in any form of the phrase. Good of you to throw it around like buzzwords in a corporate sales meeting though. If anything, the CEO is in violation for sharing his account info as well. Sony and CCP could easily just ban both people and wash their hands of it. What they actually do though, is up to them and your wall of text means nothing. Finally, let me clearly say that I don't think this is 'metagaming' at all. This is 100% over the line but is not illegal. BS Goon. Contacting a company mascarading as the victim in order to obtain gain access to an accout that contains personal information for purposes of using that acocut as the victim is the very definition of Identity Theft through Social Engineering. The definition provided by the U.S. DOJ is "Identity theft and identity fraud are terms used to refer to all types of crime in which someone wrongfully obtains and uses another person's personal data in some way that involves fraud or deception, typically for economic gain." While CCP may encourage this type of activity IN GAME, (you know, like they encourage murder) outside of the game is a crime and is illegal in many countries. YouTube

Auris Lionesse Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 779	Posted - 2014.04.30 17:21:00 - [11] - Quote Dexter307 wrote: Wait, so I can't do illegal stuff on the internet? Better hide my internet blackjack and internet hookers Oh god SAV3 T3H ***! Gallente Heavy Ninja Turtles! Gallente Heavy Ninja Turtles! Heroes in a half Gank!* *TURTLE POWER!!!*
Sigberct Amni Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 679	Posted - 2014.04.30 17:32:00 - [12] - Quote ratamaq doc wrote: BS Goon. Contacting a company mascarading as the victim in order to obtain gain access to an accout that contains personal information for purposes of using that acocut as the victim is the very definition of Identity Theft through Social Engineering. The definition provided by the U.S. DOJ is "Identity theft and identity fraud are terms used to refer to all types of crime in which someone wrongfully obtains and uses another person's personal data in some way that involves fraud or deception, typically for economic gain." While CCP may encourage this type of activity IN GAME, (you know, like they encourage murder) outside of the game is a crime and is illegal in many countries. ratamaq doc wrote: The definition provided by the U.S. DOJ is "Identity theft and identity fraud are terms used to refer to all types of crime in which someone wrongfully obtains and uses another person's personal data in some way that involves fraud or deception, typically for economic gain." ratamaq doc wrote: crime in which someone wrongfully obtains and uses another person's personal data in some way that involves fraud or deception, typically for economic gain." ratamaq doc wrote: some way that involves fraud or deception, typically for economic gain." it's like the horse leads itself to water but won't drink it.
Awry Barux Ametat Security Amarr Empire 2404	Posted - 2014.04.30 17:34:00 - [13] - Quote Sigberct Amni wrote: ratamaq doc wrote: BS Goon. Contacting a company mascarading as the victim in order to obtain gain access to an accout that contains personal information for purposes of using that acocut as the victim is the very definition of Identity Theft through Social Engineering. The definition provided by the U.S. DOJ is "Identity theft and identity fraud are terms used to refer to all types of crime in which someone wrongfully obtains and uses another person's personal data in some way that involves fraud or deception, typically for economic gain." While CCP may encourage this type of activity IN GAME, (you know, like they encourage murder) outside of the game is a crime and is illegal in many countries. ratamaq doc wrote: The definition provided by the U.S. DOJ is "Identity theft and identity fraud are terms used to refer to all types of crime in which someone wrongfully obtains and uses another person's personal data in some way that involves fraud or deception, typically for economic gain." ratamaq doc wrote: crime in which someone wrongfully obtains and uses another person's personal data in some way that involves fraud or deception, typically for economic gain." ratamaq doc wrote: some way that involves fraud or deception, typically for economic gain." it's like the horse leads itself to water but won't drink it. Typically does not mean necessarily. The lack of economic gain means that the victim may not be quite so motivated to press charges, but it is still very much a crime. Nerdier than thou
C Saunders Tech Guard RISE of LEGION 924	Posted - 2014.04.30 17:34:00 - [14] - Quote lolwut? Meta game is within the game. The PSN account is out of the game so therefore is not meta game. WTF is meta game anyway. It just sounds like an excuse to act like a total ****. // Fully Specced Mass Driver Expert // Proto Min Scout // Closed Beta Vet // Tech Guard Director //
Sigberct Amni Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 679	Posted - 2014.04.30 17:34:00 - [15] - Quote Takron Nistrom wrote: Sigberct Amni wrote: You need to pump your brakes ratamaq. This isn't identity theft in any form of the phrase. Good of you to throw it around like buzzwords in a corporate sales meeting though. If anything, the CEO is in violation for sharing his account info as well. Sony and CCP could easily just ban both people and wash their hands of it. What they actually do though, is up to them and your wall of text means nothing. Finally, let me clearly say that I don't think this is 'metagaming' at all. This is 100% over the line but is not illegal. I believe Mittani said, and I paraphrase, "...1 inch further than your enemy is willing to go." that's right, we aren't here to ruin the game. we're here to ruin YOUR game. [by patrolling your facebook for infos]
Rasatsu Much Crying Old Experts 1199	Posted - 2014.04.30 17:36:00 - [16] - Quote It might have happened like the OP says... However there's quite a few times that corp assets disappeared in EVE and the CEO blames 'hackers', while after CCP staff investigate they find no foul play at work. Guess where those assets disappeared to?
Sigberct Amni Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 679	Posted - 2014.04.30 17:39:00 - [17] - Quote Awry Barux wrote: Typically does not mean necessarily. The lack of economic gain means that the victim may not be quite so motivated to press charges, but it is still very much a crime. A crime that would be a waste of lawyer fees to pursue because there are no damages. Unless you count your precious internet pixels as something the courts should waste their time with. If the guy who 'fished' this other dude's infos (probably because said CEO is an over sharing idiot) used that info to do actual crime like accessing his bank accounts or other actually important stuff, then yes. Otherwise, this thread is just a lot of hurf blurf.
Sigberct Amni Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 679	Posted - 2014.04.30 17:41:00 - [18] - Quote Rasatsu wrote: It might have happened like the OP says... However there's quite a few times that corp assets disappeared in EVE and the CEO blames 'hackers', while after CCP staff investigate they find no foul play at work. Guess where those assets disappeared to? No way guys, my internet lawyer told me that stealing wow gold is totes illegal in 30 countries and furthermore our GM is totally stand up guy and
Awry Barux Ametat Security Amarr Empire 2404	Posted - 2014.04.30 17:43:00 - [19] - Quote Sigberct Amni wrote: Awry Barux wrote: Typically does not mean necessarily. The lack of economic gain means that the victim may not be quite so motivated to press charges, but it is still very much a crime. A crime that would be a waste of lawyer fees to pursue because there are no damages. Unless you count your precious internet pixels as something the courts should waste their time with. If the guy who 'fished' this other dude's infos (probably because said CEO is an over sharing idiot) used that info to do actual crime like accessing his bank accounts or other actually important stuff, then yes. Otherwise, this thread is just a lot of hurf blurf. I guess you missed the memo. Sony in particular, as well as the FBI, love making an example out of people. If they have something clean-cut where they can prove the fraudulent cyber-activity beyond reasonable doubt, they'll jump on it and prosecute just to strike fear into the hearts of the more devious people. Nerdier than thou
A'Real Fury D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 742	Posted - 2014.04.30 17:48:00 - [20] - Quote Obviously we do not know what happened but if it went down as described then I believe it was a criminal act. Even if the guy had been silly enough to say hand over his password it would still have been illegal if he had not given his permission to access his PSN account. Hope the guy also put in a ticket to CCP and sorted out the security issues with Sony. You do not have to be crazy to play here but we are willing to train you.

Sigberct Amni Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 679	Posted - 2014.04.30 17:51:00 - [21] - Quote A'Real Fury wrote: Obviously we do not know what happened but if it went down as described then I believe it was a criminal act. Even if the guy had been silly enough to say hand over his password it would still have been illegal if he had not given his permission to access his PSN account. Hope the guy also put in a ticket to CCP and sorted out the security issues with Sony. So essentially, what we are saying is that if I setup a honeypot PSN and roleplay an oversharing nerd with sad brains and my infos get 'fished,' I can put a dude in prison? Okay. Now we're really metagaming here!
Arirana Ancient Exiles. Dirt Nap Squad. 588	Posted - 2014.04.30 17:57:00 - [22] - Quote lol best excuse for stealing the corp wallet "Hackers did it" investigation occurs, no foul play detected All turn to original CEO/director "Fu** you" I have an ego?! O.O The scales have fallen from my eyes.
Arirana Ancient Exiles. Dirt Nap Squad. 588	Posted - 2014.04.30 17:59:00 - [23] - Quote TBH if you were a real pro at this you would set up a proxy server so that your hacking shenanigans don't trace back to you in a FBI investigation. Using internet cafe's under an alias works too lol I have an ego?! O.O The scales have fallen from my eyes.
lee corwood Knights Of Ender Galactic Skyfleet Empire 800	Posted - 2014.04.30 18:17:00 - [24] - Quote ratamaq doc wrote: (you know, like they encourage murder) sorry, that just made me laugh. In a good way. Minmatar Logisis \| Heavy lover. Ping for video services.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 3564	Posted - 2014.04.30 18:24:00 - [25] - Quote jots down in notepad to not EVER ** off Arirana Level 3 Forum Warrior**
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 3564	Posted - 2014.04.30 18:25:00 - [26] - Quote why is plss censored? Level 3 Forum Warrior
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8193	Posted - 2014.04.30 18:34:00 - [27] - Quote Arirana wrote: TBH if you were a real pro at this you would set up a proxy server so that your hacking shenanigans don't trace back to you in a FBI investigation. Using internet cafe's under an alias works too lol It almost sounds like you have done this before. Not that I'm accusing you of anything. It's just that it seems you know quite a bit about it. Dedicated Scout // Ninja Knifer Everything I know about the Caldari I learned at Nouvelle Rouvenor
Awry Barux Ametat Security Amarr Empire 2409	Posted - 2014.04.30 18:38:00 - [28] - Quote Arirana wrote: TBH if you were a real pro at this you would set up a proxy server so that your hacking shenanigans don't trace back to you in a FBI investigation. Using internet cafe's under an alias works too lol One proxy is for carebears. Tor network OP. Nerdier than thou
Operative 2511 Dajli True Companion Planetary Requisitions 83	Posted - 2014.04.30 18:38:00 - [29] - Quote Takron Nistrom wrote: Sigberct Amni wrote: You need to pump your brakes ratamaq. This isn't identity theft in any form of the phrase. Good of you to throw it around like buzzwords in a corporate sales meeting though. If anything, the CEO is in violation for sharing his account info as well. Sony and CCP could easily just ban both people and wash their hands of it. What they actually do though, is up to them and your wall of text means nothing. Finally, let me clearly say that I don't think this is 'metagaming' at all. This is 100% over the line but is not illegal. I believe Mittani said, and I paraphrase, "...1 inch further than your enemy is willing to go." Sounds like a criminal to me. Mittani also asked everyone to help a kid commit suicide. I don't care how drunk that douchebag was, he f*cked up. Good thing for him cyber bullying laws weren't in effect in America. Lol, the ban hammer got me!
Appia Nappia 636	Posted - 2014.04.30 18:41:00 - [30] - Quote C Saunders wrote: lolwut? Meta game is within the game. The PSN account is out of the game so therefore is not meta game. WTF is meta game anyway. It just sounds like an excuse to act like a total **. Wut? Dude. No. English isn't your primary language is it? Metagame/metagaming is all and everything outside the games. discussion of topics here is metagaming, talking to people outside the game, to make decisions about what you do in the game is metagaming. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metagaming wrote:** In EVE Online, the metagame refers to the styles of fitting, engagement tactics and fleet doctrines used by the playerbase on small and large scales, where knowledge of the types of NPC and Player encounters that are likely to be found influences the fleet composition directly Secretly Appia Vibbia If you can read my signature... I'm on the wrong alt.



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