DUST Search - [Suggestion] Shields and Armor my view on how to balance

BL4CKST4R wrote:

Galvan Nized wrote:

BL4CKST4R wrote:

Galvan Nized wrote:

RedUvimhing on board shields repair would ultimately destroy the only reason to run shields in the first place. Plus rechargers/energizers would now be completely worthless.

I see you don't want to change HP on Shields extenders, that is apparently not an option. So if we throw that out here's what I would change:

Buff shield regulators and shield rechargers/energizers. Ideally these have to be worth more than pure HP and currently they aren't.

Fix scaling on shield extenders. Your numbers are fine, we can go with those.

Fix fitting costs on Shield extenders and rechargers/energizers. Why are these stupidly high in the first place? Hard to run a shield tank when you can't fit crap in comparison to an armor tank.

Armor should come nowhere close to shields in terms of repair (unless they run tons of reppers.) They have double the hp but you feel they need a comparable rep rate too? Don't forget they have alternative ways to heal, shields do not. Thus would ultimately mean that armor, on average, would rep better than shields.

for shields you will rep at the same rate as now and without a delay, but you will need energizers which sacrifice no tank except dual tank. So I don't know what you mean about destroying the repair when in fact it is getting buffed in a way.

As for armor I mean a rep tanked suit, a rep tanked suit would have slightly less repair similar for almost equal hp and less speed. Rep tanking should be viable for armor to with different drawbacks. Outside rep sources are highly uncommon so I never consider them.

Energizers work as a percent of shield regen so any reduction to shield regen rate hits then doubly hard.

I might be misunderstanding but you say you want to reduce "onboard shield repair by 3x." That's huge.

For example, let's say shield regen is 100 (arguments and simplicity sake.) Energizers currently give 45% increase to shield regen rate (pro energizers are way too expensive to be used so disregard them.) Thus your shield regen is now 145.

Reducing shield delay by 3x means shield regen is now 33. So with one energizer at +55%, you now have 51. That's a gigantic Nerf...even if you make energizers 100%, that still makes regen 66 with 1, and 2 is now 123 (after stacking penalty.) So 2 energizers aren't worth even 1 current energizer. Again, huge Nerf.

I get that you're trying to discourage dual tanking, but what exactly is discouraging armor tankers from doing the dual tanking?

Remember I said shields would regenerate constantly, I.E no delay.

Reducing the Caldari shields by 3x would give 10 hp/s

With 3 complex shield energizers you get 206% increase to repair.

That adds up to around 31.8 shield repair per second discounting the 10% bonus of recharging level 5.

So you have around 472 HP that can be repaired in 15 seconds with no delay. This is huge, not only that but it also gives you a natural 7.5-10% damage reduction because it repairs per second.

As for armor I did say a mod should be made to discourage dual tanking, although dual tanking gets a huge hit since using shields without energizers means you will rep extremely slow.


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Galvan Nized Deep Space Republic 942	Posted - 2014.04.30 13:34:00 - [1] - Quote Reducing on board shields repair would ultimately destroy the only reason to run shields in the first place. Plus rechargers/energizers would now be completely worthless. I see you don't want to change HP on Shields extenders, that is apparently not an option. So if we throw that out here's what I would change: Buff shield regulators and shield rechargers/energizers. Ideally these have to be worth more than pure HP and currently they aren't. Fix scaling on shield extenders. Your numbers are fine, we can go with those. Fix fitting costs on Shield extenders and rechargers/energizers. Why are these stupidly high in the first place? Hard to run a shield tank when you can't fit crap in comparison to an armor tank. Armor should come nowhere close to shields in terms of repair (unless they run tons of reppers.) They have double the hp but you feel they need a comparable rep rate too?
Galvan Nized Deep Space Republic 948	Posted - 2014.04.30 17:29:00 - [2] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: Galvan Nized wrote: RedUvimhing on board shields repair would ultimately destroy the only reason to run shields in the first place. Plus rechargers/energizers would now be completely worthless. I see you don't want to change HP on Shields extenders, that is apparently not an option. So if we throw that out here's what I would change: Buff shield regulators and shield rechargers/energizers. Ideally these have to be worth more than pure HP and currently they aren't. Fix scaling on shield extenders. Your numbers are fine, we can go with those. Fix fitting costs on Shield extenders and rechargers/energizers. Why are these stupidly high in the first place? Hard to run a shield tank when you can't fit crap in comparison to an armor tank. Armor should come nowhere close to shields in terms of repair (unless they run tons of reppers.) They have double the hp but you feel they need a comparable rep rate too? Don't forget they have alternative ways to heal, shields do not. Thus would ultimately mean that armor, on average, would rep better than shields. for shields you will rep at the same rate as now and without a delay, but you will need energizers which sacrifice no tank except dual tank. So I don't know what you mean about destroying the repair when in fact it is getting buffed in a way. As for armor I mean a rep tanked suit, a rep tanked suit would have slightly less repair similar for almost equal hp and less speed. Rep tanking should be viable for armor to with different drawbacks. Outside rep sources are highly uncommon so I never consider them. Energizers work as a percent of shield regen so any reduction to shield regen rate hits then doubly hard. I might be misunderstanding but you say you want to reduce "onboard shield repair by 3x." That's huge. For example, let's say shield regen is 100 (arguments and simplicity sake.) Energizers currently give 45% increase to shield regen rate (pro energizers are way too expensive to be used so disregard them.) Thus your shield regen is now 145. Reducing shield delay by 3x means shield regen is now 33. So with one energizer at +55%, you now have 51. That's a gigantic Nerf...even if you make energizers 100%, that still makes regen 66 with 1, and 2 is now 123 (after stacking penalty.) So 2 energizers aren't worth even 1 current energizer. Again, huge Nerf. I get that you're trying to discourage dual tanking, but what exactly is discouraging armor tankers from doing the dual tanking?
Galvan Nized Deep Space Republic 948	Posted - 2014.04.30 19:52:00 - [3] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: Galvan Nized wrote: BL4CKST4R wrote: Galvan Nized wrote: RedUvimhing on board shields repair would ultimately destroy the only reason to run shields in the first place. Plus rechargers/energizers would now be completely worthless. I see you don't want to change HP on Shields extenders, that is apparently not an option. So if we throw that out here's what I would change: Buff shield regulators and shield rechargers/energizers. Ideally these have to be worth more than pure HP and currently they aren't. Fix scaling on shield extenders. Your numbers are fine, we can go with those. Fix fitting costs on Shield extenders and rechargers/energizers. Why are these stupidly high in the first place? Hard to run a shield tank when you can't fit crap in comparison to an armor tank. Armor should come nowhere close to shields in terms of repair (unless they run tons of reppers.) They have double the hp but you feel they need a comparable rep rate too? Don't forget they have alternative ways to heal, shields do not. Thus would ultimately mean that armor, on average, would rep better than shields. for shields you will rep at the same rate as now and without a delay, but you will need energizers which sacrifice no tank except dual tank. So I don't know what you mean about destroying the repair when in fact it is getting buffed in a way. As for armor I mean a rep tanked suit, a rep tanked suit would have slightly less repair similar for almost equal hp and less speed. Rep tanking should be viable for armor to with different drawbacks. Outside rep sources are highly uncommon so I never consider them. Energizers work as a percent of shield regen so any reduction to shield regen rate hits then doubly hard. I might be misunderstanding but you say you want to reduce "onboard shield repair by 3x." That's huge. For example, let's say shield regen is 100 (arguments and simplicity sake.) Energizers currently give 45% increase to shield regen rate (pro energizers are way too expensive to be used so disregard them.) Thus your shield regen is now 145. Reducing shield delay by 3x means shield regen is now 33. So with one energizer at +55%, you now have 51. That's a gigantic Nerf...even if you make energizers 100%, that still makes regen 66 with 1, and 2 is now 123 (after stacking penalty.) So 2 energizers aren't worth even 1 current energizer. Again, huge Nerf. I get that you're trying to discourage dual tanking, but what exactly is discouraging armor tankers from doing the dual tanking? Remember I said shields would regenerate constantly, I.E no delay. Reducing the Caldari shields by 3x would give 10 hp/s With 3 complex shield energizers you get 206% increase to repair. That adds up to around 31.8 shield repair per second discounting the 10% bonus of recharging level 5. So you have around 472 HP that can be repaired in 15 seconds with no delay. This is huge, not only that but it also gives you a natural 7.5-10% damage reduction because it repairs per second. As for armor I did say a mod should be made to discourage dual tanking, although dual tanking gets a huge hit since using shields without energizers means you will rep extremely slow. You clearly state to keep shield depletion delay, so you are not constantly repping. Again a huge hit to shield regen. One energizer now Is 43.5. That one second delay is pretty meaningless. Dual tanking armor tankers couldn't care less if their shields rep slowly, it's more buffer. They stack plates now, don't need a repper because the alternative ways to heal.