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Yan Darn
Science For Death
684
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Posted - 2014.04.27 13:53:00 -
[1] - Quote
Many people don't understand tiercide.
I'm not sure why.
Probably never seen it work in EVE - Probably think they need to be further rewarded for SP investment.
Having somethin do exactly the same thing as something else, but better =/= variety.
Especially without asymmetrical warfare.
Defining Tiers as 'variety/diversity' is the definition of dumbed down gameplay, that appeals to CoD players that weren't very good at CoD.
The Ghost of Bravo
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Yan Darn
Science For Death
690
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Posted - 2014.04.27 14:15:00 -
[2] - Quote
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote:Yan Darn wrote:Many people don't understand tiercide.
You sound like one of those economist who spoke during the 80's about tying the world's economy into one world economy ," No let's not let people decide for themselves when we can do it for them , we know better than they do anyway ... what " they " want ." Wonder how that's going now for those who had jobs and now don't because the company that they worked for took the plant that provided for their town or city and placed it somewhere else so they can turn a larger profit and flood the economy with crappy , cheep goods for less pay and more labor . That's how Dust will be with tiericide .
No, I'm like a British/French person trying explain to a Saudi prince that democracy and egalitarian principles are the way forward.
You know, cause we know from experience (EVE) this path isn't sustainable.
The Ghost of Bravo
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Yan Darn
Science For Death
691
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Posted - 2014.04.27 15:01:00 -
[3] - Quote
Vrain Matari wrote:Gaelon Thrace wrote:Open question for anyone who opposes tiericide: What exactly do you think tiericide is? Open question for anyone who opposes a deeply unlevel playing field: why do you think it's bad? Edit: Had to add this quote from Kovinis Sparagas in another thread: "If you just download this game from store not knowing anything about it - you will delete it in10 minutes. Because this isn't your ordinary Call of Battlefield. New Eden will welcome him, and then kick directly in his nuts and spit on him with proto-stomping and HAV, and when after 10 deaths will show the bill, because you have to pay money (ISK) every time you die. And then he will be lying defenceless on the ground with his own fluids from his pants all around him, from fear - when the game will ask him: - Want to be like them? Then you have to work your way up son, because no one is helping you here. Your on your own kid. After this conversation 90% of them will delete this game as fast as they can. Other 10% are real men. In other words - only we can advertise this game to our friends, and help them to become real men, like we are."
Edit:'was unnecessarily tetchy.
If you believe Tiercide will remove the 'unfair/New Eden' element of Dust, I assume you must think EVE is just a montage of people cuddling pink fluffy bunnies, flying past each other in their spaceships tipping their hat and saying 'have a wonderful day!' to everyone on their way to a duall bouncy castle/teddy bear exhibit.
@Zaeed
Tiercide basically means basic/ADV/Complex modules and weapons would stay - but you have a STD Variation of suit that has slots/grid somewhere between current ADV/ Proto. However - then you would have more expensive 'Tech 2' Versions that are more specialised - like a scout suit that is faster, but cant fit cloaks or a Sentinel that can 'Hunker Down' for increased damage reduction/weapon range, but is even slower than normal Sentinels, or Logis etc.
I'm pulling ideas out my arse here of course - just go on the EVE site, have a look at the Caladri T1 frigates, then have a look at how the T2 specialisations (Assault, Interceptor, Cov-Ops, Stealth Bomber etc.) work.
Then come back and tell me like others here that Tiercide ruins variety, and you will know why I think they are ridulous, ignorant and shortsighted.
If they were right, we could just keep adding higher and higher tiers of suits that just have more slots and grid. That will make the game more diverse and varied, right?
More slots and grid =/= different suit. If it did we would just have an Amarr Heavy, Cal Assault, Min Logi and Gal Scout.
We could have super-proto Gal scouts, then mega proto Gal scouts, then Giga-proto Gal scouts. All functionally identical to each other, just each one having a steady increase of slots and grid. All the 'variety' you'd ever need.
So much choice!
The Ghost of Bravo
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Yan Darn
Science For Death
697
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Posted - 2014.04.27 15:21:00 -
[4] - Quote
Vrain Matari wrote:Yan Darn wrote:
...
If you believe Tiercide will remove the 'unfair/New Eden' element of Dust, I assume you must think EVE is just a montage of people cuddling pink fluffy bunnies, flying past each other in their spaceships tipping their hat and saying 'have a wonderful day!' to everyone on their way to a duall bouncy castle/teddy bear exhibit.
...
I dunno, I've been fighting in nullsec since 2005. I'm thinking i grok it.
Were you against tiercide in EVE too?
Cause Ironically, with the ability to actually outnumber your opponents, having Tiers in EVE wouldn't cause half the amount it does in the 'tournament' set up that is DUST.
The Ghost of Bravo
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Yan Darn
Science For Death
708
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Posted - 2014.04.28 09:56:00 -
[5] - Quote
Vrain Matari wrote:Yan Darn wrote:Vrain Matari wrote:Yan Darn wrote:
...
If you believe Tiercide will remove the 'unfair/New Eden' element of Dust, I assume you must think EVE is just a montage of people cuddling pink fluffy bunnies, flying past each other in their spaceships tipping their hat and saying 'have a wonderful day!' to everyone on their way to a duall bouncy castle/teddy bear exhibit.
...
I dunno, I've been fighting in nullsec since 2005. I'm thinking i grok it. Were you against tiercide in EVE too? Cause Ironically, with the ability to actually outnumber your opponents, having Tiers in EVE wouldn't cause half the amount it does in the 'tournament' set up that is DUST. What you say is true re match structure. It's your solution i disagree with: My preferred playing field is strongly imbalanced, although it seems that smart, tough new players can handle things just as they are and some even say DUST isn't hard at all. Your solution is tilted more towards fairness.
I realise I am the who brought up the 'Fairness' issue, however for me it really is more about the lack of diversity. The role bonuses of 't2' frame plus the SP invested (and greater ISK cost) will always put some players at an advantage over others.
For someone like me with 250mil ISK (I dont even PC or anything) and full proto skills, I'm not seeing the 'variety/diversity' of suit options people are claiming tiers give.
If this was truly sandbox and part of waging battle was down to economics, then maybe I could see some use for the cheaper (read 'just plain worse') frames give.
Simply put, there is nothing close to something like the humble Rifter in EVE.
The Ghost of Bravo
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