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Hardened Incubus vs Heavy Plated Incubus (why use hardeners?)

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Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 8097	Posted - 2014.04.27 09:38:00 - [1] - Quote I was watching DUST Fiend's video where he showcases his skills with the Incubus, one of the most fun things you can do in Dust at the moment (as well as Pythons, I don't judge! ). DUST Fiend is a great pilot, but I couldn't help but noticed that he is using hardeners on his Incubus, which makes me scratch my head. And it's not just him, nearly every Incubus I see is using an armor hardener. Maybe there's something I'm missing, but hardeners don't seem worth it at all. I'm not sure why anyone would use them. Judging from the video, he is using your typical armor hardened Incubus fit, http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/285/4187 This is compared to an alternative fit you could make with a complex 120mm armor plate, http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/285/4188 Two things to note here from the links. In the first link it says the armor hardener grants 40% resistance, but that has actually been changed to 25% resistance. Also on the second link it is not applying the 20% increase to powergrid, so despite what it says the fit is in fact valid. So what do we got here? Both ships have an XT-1 Missile Launcher, both ships have a complex afterburner, both ships have the same movement speed, both ships have 950 shield, and both ships have an armor repair rate of 93.75 hp/s. However, the armor hardened Incubus has 3046 armor. When we apply the 25% resistance while the hardener is active, it has 3807.5 effective armor hit points. Meanwhile, the heavy plated Incubus has 4247 armor hit points. Yes, that is right, the armor hardened Incubus has less effective hit points and even then it only has them for a limited time whereas the heavy armor plated Incubus has more hit points all the time. And heck, even if armor hardeners were still 40% resistance, the armor hardened Incubus would only have 4264.4 effective armor hit points. So that is negligibly more HP for a limited amount of time. Maybe I'm missing something here, but otherwise take this as a PSA to all you Incubus pilots out there to ditch the armor hardener, and maybe a heads up to CCP that armor hardeners are garbage. Amarr are the good guys.
Nevyn Tazinas Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 14	Posted - 2014.04.27 09:46:00 - [2] - Quote You have missed the effect that a Hardener has on the Rep, increasing it by 25% as well as effective EHP by the 25%.
Bendtner92 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1912	Posted - 2014.04.27 09:49:00 - [3] - Quote The hardener fit will have more EHP when taking damage. Whenever you lose armor, the hardener fit will be repping back more EHP/s than the plated fit (as long as the hardener is active). I'm sure you can argue pros and cons for both fits, but I think they both have their place at the moment. With that said, I still think the hardener nerf was wrong as I don't believe they were too effective before the nerf. The problem was cycling more than one hardener, which should have been solved by making fits with more than one hardener invalid. Winner of the EU Squad Cup & the closed beta Tester's Tournament. Go Go Power Rangers! R.I.P MAG.
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 736	Posted - 2014.04.27 10:04:00 - [4] - Quote Bendtner92 wrote: The hardener fit will have more EHP when taking damage. Whenever you lose armor, the hardener fit will be repping back more EHP/s than the plated fit (as long as the hardener is active). I'm sure you can argue pros and cons for both fits, but I think they both have their place at the moment. With that said, I still think the hardener nerf was wrong as I don't believe they were too effective before the nerf. The problem was cycling more than one hardener, which should have been solved by making fits with more than one hardener invalid. The actual problem was the lack of a webifier to allow infantry to punish overly aggressive tankers, but instead they took the substitute route and reduced the hardeners. That, and the fact that swarms were supposed to be an assistant version of AV but the STD and ADV variants were not proccing enough damage because the repair cancelling threshold was not operating. (the repair threshold was supposed to shortly stop repairs when a certain value of damage was done) If you can read this, it means you are reading. Unless you are skimming
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 8097	Posted - 2014.04.27 10:09:00 - [5] - Quote Yes I thought about that how it relates to armor repairs, but /me pulls out math Let's just say someone is using a Wirykomi Breach Forge Gun with Level 5 Proficiency, a bad situation for the ADS pilot. Vs Heavy Armor Plated Incubus First shot: Wipes shields and takes me down to 2925.7 armor. Second shot: 4.5 seconds later. We'll give it another 0.5 seconds to hit me. Shields are still wiped but I got back up to 3394.5 armor through repairs. Shot hits and I'm down to 738 armor. Third shot. Armor regens to 1206.7 armor. Shot hits. I'm going down. Vs Armor Hardened Incubus First shot: Wipes shields and takes your down to 2055.1 armor (assuming you predicted the shot was coming and turned your hardener on before hand) Second shot: 4.5 seconds later. We'll give it another 0.5 seconds to hit. Shields are still wiped out but you get back to 2523.8 armor through repairs (with resistance this is 3154.75 EHP, still less than first example). Shot hits and you're down to 531.5 armor (with resistance this is 664.8 EHP, still less than first example). Third shot. Armor regens to 1000.2 armor (with resistance this is 1250 EHP, slightly higher than first example). Shot hits. You're going down. So from this example, the heavy armor plated Incubus is still the better option as far as EHP goes until after you get hit twice by the forge, and even then it is only marginal. Plus the heavy armor plated Incubus has the advantage of always having it's max EHP available at starts of such engagements, where as the armor hardened Incubus would have to predict before hand that he is about to get hit by a forge. Amarr are the good guys.
Bendtner92 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1912	Posted - 2014.04.27 10:18:00 - [6] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: Example Yeah, that's just one example with a Breach FG dealing high alpha damage. Against less damage over more time I think the hardener fit will be better. I believe both fits have their place. In your example the plated fit would fare best, in other cases the hardener fit might be the best. But as I also said, the hardener nerf was wrong. With the old numbers the hardener fit would be even better, so CCP did break the hardener fit somewhat, but that's to be expected at this point. Winner of the EU Squad Cup & the closed beta Tester's Tournament. Go Go Power Rangers! R.I.P MAG.
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 8098	Posted - 2014.04.27 10:22:00 - [7] - Quote Bendtner92 wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: Example Yeah, that's just one example with a Breach FG dealing high alpha damage. Against less damage over more time I think the hardener fit will be better. I believe both fits have their place. In your example the plated fit would fare best, in other cases the hardener fit might be the best. But as I also said, the hardener nerf was wrong. With the old numbers the hardener fit would be even better, so CCP did break the hardener fit somewhat, but that's to be expected at this point. Alpha damage is the only thing that is going to take down an ADS though, if you try to kill it with small but sustained fire it's just going to fly away and recoup. Plus the main AV threats to the ADS is either a forge or large rail gun, both of which don't necessarily give you fair warning they are going to hit so a lot of the times an armor hardened Incubus will have the hardener up for the first hit, unless he was smart enough to activate it early as a precaution. Even then the heavy armor plated Incubus doesn't have to wait for some cool down before it can safely return to the fray. I believe armor hardened Incubi could have a place, but definitely not with just 25% resistance compared to these heavy plated fits. Amarr are the good guys.
pegasis prime BIG BAD W0LVES Canis Eliminatus Operatives 1666	Posted - 2014.04.27 10:28:00 - [8] - Quote Rules for resistances..... If you say have 1000 hp and have 25% resistance your ehp is now 1500. Now if you have 1000 hp and 50% resists you have an ehp of 2000. So plates and reps for drop ships and plates reps and resists for hav's. Dropships don't really have a high enough hp bank to take full advantage of the resistances so should opt for speed and reps. Proud Gunlogi pilot and forge gunner since August 2012. I fought and bled for the State on Caldari prime.
Bendtner92 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1912	Posted - 2014.04.27 10:32:00 - [9] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: Alpha damage is the only thing that is going to take down an ADS though, if you try to kill it with small but sustained fire it's just going to fly away and recoup. Plus the main AV threats to the ADS is either a forge or large rail gun, both of which don't necessarily give you fair warning they are going to hit so a lot of the times an armor hardened Incubus will have the hardener up for the first hit, unless he was smart enough to activate it early as a precaution. Even then the heavy armor plated Incubus doesn't have to wait for some cool down before it can safely return to the fray. I think that's exactly my point. The hardener fit will be able to stay in the fray for longer when being targeted by sustained damage due to repping more EHP back each second, but will then have to stay in safezone while the hardener is recharging while the plated fit can engage at all times, but have to be cautious against sustained damage. It's about preference/what is needed for the specific situation I would say. Quote: I believe armor hardened Incubi could have a place, but definitely not with just 25% resistance compared to these heavy plated fits. Sure, the hardener fit might be a little worse than other fits overall due to the unneeded nerf to hardeners, but it still have it's places (in my opinion). I still agree with you that 25% resistance is too little though. Winner of the EU Squad Cup & the closed beta Tester's Tournament. Go Go Power Rangers! R.I.P MAG.
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 8099	Posted - 2014.04.27 10:32:00 - [10] - Quote pegasis prime wrote: Rules for resistances..... If you say have 1000 hp and have 25% resistance your ehp is now 1500. Now if you have 1000 hp and 50% resists you have an ehp of 2000. So plates and reps for drop ships and plates reps and resists for hav's. Dropships don't really have a high enough hp bank to take full advantage of the resistances so should opt for speed and reps. D'oh! You are right (sort of). 25% resistance is not HP x 1.25, but HP /0.75 which is a 33% increase. So if you have 1000 hp and have 25% resistance your EHP is now 1333. Excuse me as I go through the thread and update numbers. Amarr are the good guys.

Nevyn Tazinas Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 14	Posted - 2014.04.27 10:32:00 - [11] - Quote You are also assuming that the perfect alpha breach FG is also going to aim perfectly and not have a single fire delay from aiming, evasive action, or obstacles. Your example gives NINE SECONDS for the ADS pilot to take evasive action. If the ADS pilot sits like a moron for 9 seconds waiting to be killed, he's going to die no matter what fit he has. Because he's that bad a pilot. However an ADS taking a mixture of lower end forges & swarms is going to be better off doing a move/shoot and pounding the Inf & the multiple AV trying to drive him off while he has a hardener. Assuming a perfect 30s hardener also, +33/s*30 = +990 EHP. Which is significantly more than the plate fit has.
pegasis prime BIG BAD W0LVES Canis Eliminatus Operatives 1667	Posted - 2014.04.27 10:36:00 - [12] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: pegasis prime wrote: Rules for resistances..... If you say have 1000 hp and have 25% resistance your ehp is now 1500. Now if you have 1000 hp and 50% resists you have an ehp of 2000. So plates and reps for drop ships and plates reps and resists for hav's. Dropships don't really have a high enough hp bank to take full advantage of the resistances so should opt for speed and reps. D'oh! You are right (sort of). 25% resistance is not HP x 1.25, but HP /0.75 which is a 33% increase. So if you have 1000 hp and have 25% resistance your EHP is now 1333. Excuse me as I go through the thread and update numbers. I just use my rule of thumb 50% resists brings a +100% hp increase to give the ehp . I just look at it this way if i have 1000 hp and they are using a wepon that deals 1000 dammage no resits I'm gone in 1 shot but if I have 50% resist they need 2 Shotts so as effectively needing to inflict 2000 dammage . Proud Gunlogi pilot and forge gunner since August 2012. I fought and bled for the State on Caldari prime.
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 8099	Posted - 2014.04.27 10:45:00 - [13] - Quote Nevyn Tazinas wrote: You are also assuming that the perfect alpha breach FG is also going to aim perfectly and not have a single fire delay from aiming, evasive action, or obstacles. Your example gives NINE SECONDS for the ADS pilot to take evasive action. If the ADS pilot sits like a moron for 9 seconds waiting to be killed, he's going to die no matter what fit he has. Because he's that bad a pilot. However an ADS taking a mixture of lower end forges & swarms is going to be better off doing a move/shoot and pounding the Inf & the multiple AV trying to drive him off while he has a hardener. Assuming a perfect 30s hardener also, +33/s*30 = +990 EHP. Which is significantly more than the plate fit has. Yes, I'm actually giving both ships roughly 10 seconds to GTFO which is more than enough but not the point. The example was just a case of say an Incubus flying around engaging infantry while the breach forger is out there, and perhaps still trying to take a couple extra shots and still be within range as you try to escape. If you want to do some calculations with a mixture of lower end forges and swarms you'll get similar results where the heavy armor plated Incubus still outperforms initially. Basically the only case currently when the armor hardened Incubus outperforms is towards the end when you stay in the fray for a very long time, and even then you have to make sure that the armor hardener is active wheras you don't have to make sure your heavy armor plate is active (because it's always there). When dealing with straight up alpha damage, which is really the only AV which has a decent shot at taking down good pilots, the heavy armor plate is better. Amarr are the good guys.
I-Shayz-I I-----I 3070	Posted - 2014.04.27 10:49:00 - [14] - Quote Today I took on a tank that was out-repping my forge gun damage, and he wasn't even a triple repped madrugar. He had about 5500 armor (I don't use vehicles, but that seems like one plate), and was repping about 250-300 per second. Normally triple repped madrugars die in 3 direct hits to armor in succession, however this tank was invincible to my solo efforts because he had 1500 more armor than other tanks I usually face. Let's say I'm dealing 3500 damage every two shots. A full clip would then be 7000 damage. It takes 3 seconds to fire each additional round after the first, and in that time he can rep back 750 armor. I'm ignoring shields because I always take down the shields, reload, then dig into armor with a full clip to prevent wasted ammo and the tank from healing back to full while I reload. Start: 5500 armor First shot: -1750, 3750 remaining Charging up second shot: +750, 4500 remaining Second shot: -1750, 2750 remaining Charging up third shot: +750, 3500 remaining Third shot: -1750, 1750 remaining Charging up fourth shot: +750, 2500 remaining Fourth shot: -1750, 750 remaining And this is assuming I hit every shot. I eventually made a swarm fit and destroyed him with remotes, but I thought this fitting was very clever. Usually tanks that I see with more than 4k armor are just easy kills, but it really shows that having more armor to absorb damage with seems to be the key to vehicles as long as you have the reps to back it up. Links: 7162 wp with a Repair Tool! I make logistics videos!
Vulpes Dolosus SVER True Blood General Tso's Alliance 1459	Posted - 2014.04.27 11:28:00 - [15] - Quote I fly Pythons but I watch my brother in his Incubus. Keep in mind that adding armor plates reduces your maneuverability noticeably. Even with high ehp, a dropship isn't going to tank high end forges or rail tanks so your best bet at surviving is being able to avoid damage. I still would recommend brick tanking over active for a variety of reasons, but I would advise no to be over confident in its tanking ability and to use an afterburner. Me in my ADS: 1,2
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 8106	Posted - 2014.04.27 15:50:00 - [16] - Quote Vulpes Dolosus wrote: I fly Pythons but I watch my brother in his Incubus. Keep in mind that adding armor plates reduces your maneuverability noticeably. Even with high ehp, a dropship isn't going to tank high end forges or rail tanks so your best bet at surviving is being able to avoid damage. I still would recommend brick tanking over active for a variety of reasons, but I would advise no to be over confident in its tanking ability and to use an afterburner. Read the OP, both fits here are the same speed. Complex 60mm Armor Plates and Complex 120mm Armor Plates both have 10% movement penalties. Also I wouldn't say it is very noticeable at all because they are still extremely maneuverable, and if anything the extra bit of weight helps you keep control of the ship through all the fast aerial maneuvers. Amarr are the good guys.
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 13151	Posted - 2014.04.27 15:52:00 - [17] - Quote I'd like to clarify that that is old footage, and it has been my build to run Heavy Plate, Heavy Rep, Afterburner ever since the hardener nerf. I will go back and read the thread now, and thanks for showcasing that vid :p There is no reason to ever fit a hardener now My Music Videos & Fan Fiction Incubus, Gallente Proud
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 8106	Posted - 2014.04.27 15:53:00 - [18] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: I'd like to clarify that that is old footage, and it has been my build to run Heavy Plate, Heavy Rep, Afterburner ever since the hardener nerf. I will go back and read the thread now, and thanks for showcasing that vid :p There is no reason to ever fit a hardener now Is it even possible to run heavy plate and heavy rep? You mean Comlex 120mm Armor Plate and Complex Light Armor Rep like the fit I have? Amarr are the good guys.
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 13151	Posted - 2014.04.27 15:55:00 - [19] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: I'd like to clarify that that is old footage, and it has been my build to run Heavy Plate, Heavy Rep, Afterburner ever since the hardener nerf. I will go back and read the thread now, and thanks for showcasing that vid :p There is no reason to ever fit a hardener now Is it even possible to run heavy plate and heavy rep? You mean Comlex 120mm Armor Plate and Complex Light Armor Rep like the fit I have? Nope, I run Advanced Heavy Plate, Advanced Heavy Rep, Advanced Afterburner, XT 1 Missile Launcher. You can fit the Complex Afterburner with a Proto Rail. You may be able to squeeze in a complex AB on the XT as well if you max out the fitting skill, but I haven't calculated it, and I don't have any points in that skill If you could just toss that clarification in your OP somewhere I would appreciate it, since I feel that running hardeners now is for noobs :p My Music Videos & Fan Fiction Incubus, Gallente Proud
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 8106	Posted - 2014.04.27 16:04:00 - [20] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: I'd like to clarify that that is old footage, and it has been my build to run Heavy Plate, Heavy Rep, Afterburner ever since the hardener nerf. I will go back and read the thread now, and thanks for showcasing that vid :p There is no reason to ever fit a hardener now Is it even possible to run heavy plate and heavy rep? You mean Comlex 120mm Armor Plate and Complex Light Armor Rep like the fit I have? Nope, I run Advanced Heavy Plate, Advanced Heavy Rep, Advanced Afterburner, XT 1 Missile Launcher. You can fit the Complex Afterburner with a Proto Rail. You may be able to squeeze in a complex AB on the XT as well if you max out the fitting skill, but I haven't calculated it, and I don't have any points in that skill If you could just toss that clarification in your OP somewhere I would appreciate it, since I feel that running hardeners now is for noobs :p Will do, and I'm going to give this fit a try right now. Amarr are the good guys.

DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 13152	Posted - 2014.04.27 16:06:00 - [21] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: I'd like to clarify that that is old footage, and it has been my build to run Heavy Plate, Heavy Rep, Afterburner ever since the hardener nerf. I will go back and read the thread now, and thanks for showcasing that vid :p There is no reason to ever fit a hardener now Is it even possible to run heavy plate and heavy rep? You mean Comlex 120mm Armor Plate and Complex Light Armor Rep like the fit I have? Nope, I run Advanced Heavy Plate, Advanced Heavy Rep, Advanced Afterburner, XT 1 Missile Launcher. You can fit the Complex Afterburner with a Proto Rail. You may be able to squeeze in a complex AB on the XT as well if you max out the fitting skill, but I haven't calculated it, and I don't have any points in that skill If you could just toss that clarification in your OP somewhere I would appreciate it, since I feel that running hardeners now is for noobs :p Will do, and I'm going to give this fit a try right now. I've been enjoying it, the biggest weakness is damage stacked railguns now, you rely HEAVILY on the afterburner to save you from those or double forge / rail - forge three hit combo. Dodging the third shot is crucial. My Music Videos & Fan Fiction Incubus, Gallente Proud
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 8106	Posted - 2014.04.27 16:13:00 - [22] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: I'd like to clarify that that is old footage, and it has been my build to run Heavy Plate, Heavy Rep, Afterburner ever since the hardener nerf. I will go back and read the thread now, and thanks for showcasing that vid :p There is no reason to ever fit a hardener now Is it even possible to run heavy plate and heavy rep? You mean Comlex 120mm Armor Plate and Complex Light Armor Rep like the fit I have? Nope, I run Advanced Heavy Plate, Advanced Heavy Rep, Advanced Afterburner, XT 1 Missile Launcher. You can fit the Complex Afterburner with a Proto Rail. You may be able to squeeze in a complex AB on the XT as well if you max out the fitting skill, but I haven't calculated it, and I don't have any points in that skill If you could just toss that clarification in your OP somewhere I would appreciate it, since I feel that running hardeners now is for noobs :p Will do, and I'm going to give this fit a try right now. I've been enjoying it, the biggest weakness is damage stacked railguns now, you rely HEAVILY on the afterburner to save you from those or double forge / rail - forge three hit combo. Dodging the third shot is crucial. That's what I've been noticing with the fit I linked in the OP as well, it's why I start trying to jet out before the second hit comes so the third hit has no chance. Forgers generally don't move very far so I know where they are and can come back and pick them off, and if it was a rail tank then either start engaging it (unless it's in the redline, in which case I'll just ignore it and stay out of it's range). Amarr are the good guys.
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 13152	Posted - 2014.04.27 16:16:00 - [23] - Quote Yea, it's the Proto Breach you need to watch out for. The be entirely honest, that weapon alone is the reason I made that fit, just so you can survive that damn shot even if you're slightly wounded. It can come out of nowhere sometimes and damn does it hurt I need to calculate if I could technically fit the complex AB if I maxed the fitting skill for the XT just because that would be sex My Music Videos & Fan Fiction Incubus, Gallente Proud
Kaminoikari DROID EXILES Proficiency V. 139	Posted - 2014.04.27 16:30:00 - [24] - Quote >Reading this thread >See no mention of people running passive reps My vehicle armor reps aren't maxed, but I'm running ~250 HP/s rep. This feels much more survivable than an armor hardened/plated Incubus. It is especially effective against swarms (unless multiple people) and in a dropship battle, you essentially out-rep the enemy because no pilot will ever hit all 8 missiles (or ~14 railgun shots in a burst) on another decent pilot. At max armor rep, a Complex Heavy Armor Repair and a Complex Light Armor Repair will net you 275 HP/s. You can still fit an XT-1 and an afterburner, just need to put in a PG module. Dropships need a buff. This way they can stop derping everywhere . ;_; >Tfw no Amarr dropship and laser turrets
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 8106	Posted - 2014.04.27 16:42:00 - [25] - Quote Kaminoikari wrote: >Reading this thread >See no mention of people running passive reps My vehicle armor reps aren't maxed, but I'm running ~250 HP/s rep. This feels much more survivable than an armor hardened/plated Incubus. It is especially effective against swarms (unless multiple people) and in a dropship battle, you essentially out-rep the enemy because no pilot will ever hit all 8 missiles (or ~14 railgun shots in a burst) on another decent pilot. At max armor rep, a Complex Heavy Armor Repair and a Complex Light Armor Repair will net you 275 HP/s. You can still fit an XT-1 and an afterburner, just need to put in a PG module. I tried passive rep tanking, and just like with HAV's it is terrible against alpha damage, which is what the majority of your threats are in a dropship. Swarms are never really an issue, just minor nuisances. Perhaps it works for you, but I absolutely hate passive rep tanking a dropship. Amarr are the good guys.
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 3491	Posted - 2014.04.27 16:48:00 - [26] - Quote I find the incubus is a flying bus Its heavy and moves a fair bit slower which is kinda bad if you get hit and knocked around a bit, better for aiming tho since it doesnt move as much Having 3k armor is useful and the hardener is useless anyways but that AB has to be availible at all times
Kaminoikari DROID EXILES Proficiency V. 139	Posted - 2014.04.27 16:55:00 - [27] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: Kaminoikari wrote: >Reading this thread >See no mention of people running passive reps My vehicle armor reps aren't maxed, but I'm running ~250 HP/s rep. This feels much more survivable than an armor hardened/plated Incubus. It is especially effective against swarms (unless multiple people) and in a dropship battle, you essentially out-rep the enemy because no pilot will ever hit all 8 missiles (or ~14 railgun shots in a burst) on another decent pilot. At max armor rep, a Complex Heavy Armor Repair and a Complex Light Armor Repair will net you 275 HP/s. You can still fit an XT-1 and an afterburner, just need to put in a PG module. I tried passive rep tanking, and just like with HAV's it is terrible against alpha damage, which is what the majority of your threats are in a dropship. Swarms are never really an issue, just minor nuisances. Perhaps it works for you, but I absolutely hate passive rep tanking a dropship. I only use it in select situations. I just wanted people to know it is an option as well. I personally stay with my Hardener/Complex Light Rep/Extra Ammo combo. Dropships need a buff. This way they can stop derping everywhere . ;_; >Tfw no Amarr dropship and laser turrets
Awry Barux Ametat Security Amarr Empire 2213	Posted - 2014.04.27 16:55:00 - [28] - Quote Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote: That, and the fact that swarms were supposed to be an assistant version of AV but the STD and ADV variants were not proccing enough damage, as a result of the repair cancelling threshold not operating. Not related to the main thread, but I can't let this slide: proc does not mean what you seem to think it means. Procs and proccing refers to "Programmed Random OCcurrences", i.e. effects with a chance to trigger when a certain event occurs. This mostly applies to games like WoW, though I suppose you could also conceptualize EVE's OH rack spread-damage as a proc. Anyway, literally nothing in Dust can "proc". Nerdier than thou
Vulpes Dolosus SVER True Blood General Tso's Alliance 1461	Posted - 2014.04.27 17:09:00 - [29] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: Vulpes Dolosus wrote: I fly Pythons but I watch my brother in his Incubus. Keep in mind that adding armor plates reduces your maneuverability noticeably. Even with high ehp, a dropship isn't going to tank high end forges or rail tanks so your best bet at surviving is being able to avoid damage. I still would recommend brick tanking over active for a variety of reasons, but I would advise no to be over confident in its tanking ability and to use an afterburner. Read the OP, both fits here are the same speed. Complex 60mm Armor Plates and Complex 120mm Armor Plates both have 10% movement penalties. Also I wouldn't say it is very noticeable at all because they are still extremely maneuverable, and if anything the extra bit of weight helps you keep control of the ship through all the fast aerial maneuvers. It's better to use 2 complex 60mm and a complex repair because you only sacrifice 200 hp for almost double the reps. However, -20% maneuverability is definitely noticeable, but it depends on what works for you. In any case, they're all far less maneuverable than a Python. Me in my ADS: 1,2
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 13153	Posted - 2014.04.27 17:14:00 - [30] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: Kaminoikari wrote: >Reading this thread >See no mention of people running passive reps My vehicle armor reps aren't maxed, but I'm running ~250 HP/s rep. This feels much more survivable than an armor hardened/plated Incubus. It is especially effective against swarms (unless multiple people) and in a dropship battle, you essentially out-rep the enemy because no pilot will ever hit all 8 missiles (or ~14 railgun shots in a burst) on another decent pilot. At max armor rep, a Complex Heavy Armor Repair and a Complex Light Armor Repair will net you 275 HP/s. You can still fit an XT-1 and an afterburner, just need to put in a PG module. I tried passive rep tanking, and just like with HAV's it is terrible against alpha damage, which is what the majority of your threats are in a dropship. Swarms are never really an issue, just minor nuisances. Perhaps it works for you, but I absolutely hate passive rep tanking a dropship. This x 1 million. I switched to my fit because of Proto breach forge guns and damage stacked rails, both of which will make your day very unpleasant in a passive Rep Incubus My Music Videos & Fan Fiction Incubus, Gallente Proud



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