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RINON114
B.S.A.A.
General Tso's Alliance
597
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Posted - 2014.04.27 08:43:00 -
[1] - Quote
How about: when cloaked we become really weak to any damage types? Like +200% increase in damage taken. The reason for this suggestion is to simply put brick tanked scouts under pressure to use the cloak as intended, as a sneaky stealth equipment. It would also (hopefully) put a stop to people cloaking and firing, as that bug has killed me more times than I can count. |
Mossellia Delt
Militaires Sans Jeux
1282
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Posted - 2014.04.27 09:16:00 -
[2] - Quote
So.... us scouts who don't tank at all get super ******? Sounds great!
I already almost die from fall damage, now jumping will instant kill me when cloaked.
Join the Channel - CPM1 Candidates - Get to know who's running.
Delt for CPM1
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Yan Darn
Science For Death
681
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Posted - 2014.04.27 09:58:00 -
[3] - Quote
It's very clear a lot people don't play scout of have any real idea what can be done with them.
Brick tanking =/= Scout Only Problem
Brick Tanking =/= 1.8 Problem
Brick Tanking Solution = Balancing Tank Modules.
In other words: It doesn't really help the game to balance things around broken modules.
The Ghost of Bravo
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Django Quik
Dust2Dust.
3016
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Posted - 2014.04.27 11:44:00 -
[4] - Quote
Another terrible non-solution to the wrong problem.
Please don't even bother trying again.
Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot
Scout community is the nuts
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RINON114
B.S.A.A.
General Tso's Alliance
597
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Posted - 2014.04.27 19:17:00 -
[5] - Quote
So much imagination in this thread!
Perhaps we just don't factor in fall damage. First problem solved.
Brick tanking is not the sole problem and although the OP reads as such, it was not my intention to allude to the fact that this is the only problem. I mean to suggest that the scout role should involve more defensive measures or even offensive ones (hacking) but should not be used to instagib whomever you desire.
It is very easy as a scout to go unnoticed simply because of the cloak and not because of player skill.
While I personally would prefer a simpler solution to the cloak/scout/ shotgun combo, I figure that more cards on the table can make things more interesting or give someone else a spark of an idea to get us somewhere else. |
ALPHA DECRIPTER
Dragon-Empire
RUST415
911
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Posted - 2014.04.27 21:30:00 -
[6] - Quote
My only real problem with this is that a stray bullet will kill me while hacking (amazing at how many people just outright miss me while I'm cloak hacking. Most of the times they'll hit me once or twice be for I get the hack off.
If this was implemented I would need to create a tanked scout fit just to ninja hack. TBH I would rather not need to resort to such measures.
I do like were you heart's at though as I can see a lot of good in this idea.
Scout Tactician
Dance puppets, DANCE!
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Talos Vagheitan
Ancient Exiles.
576
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Posted - 2014.04.27 21:35:00 -
[7] - Quote
I haven't really made up my mind on cloaks yet, but I don't think they're over powered.
I do think speed should be more of a limiting factor on them if anything. The faster you move, the easier you are to see. It's kind of like that now, but not enough in my opinion. Sprinting while cloaked should be more of a give away.
Who cares what some sniper has to say
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Demon Buddah
Corporate Disaster
Caps and Mercs
194
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Posted - 2014.04.27 22:35:00 -
[8] - Quote
Cloaks themselves are not the problem. If you look in front of you instead of your radar all the time you will see a cloaked scout, even if he is standing still. The problems with the scouts that I see are
1: Brick scouts
2: Constant passive scan
First the cloak, the only problem I have seen with the cloak is the delay on decloaking. I got enough time shoot my shotgun or charge my knife before I decloak. Fix that and the cloak is perfect.
To fix the brick problem, make it where plates have a greater penalty to the scouts speed. A scout should not have more health than an assault. If they want to have a ton of health on a scout suit, they should have to give up a lot of speed for it.
Now, passive scans. As much as I love it, it's kind of ridiculous. My Minmitar suit isn't as bad seeing as I have to be pretty close to them to see them on scans, but my Caldari (which seems to be the favorite among people... go figure) is just ridiculous. Cloaked and sometimes even dampened scouts I can still see. I mean, do we really need a suit that can see anyone at all times? If this is how the Caldari scout is supposed to be, then maybe lower down it's health some? I haven't really determined a solution to the Caldari scout but constant passive scan just seems OP to me.
These are the things I have seen that seems to rule the battlefield now. Wanna kill a cloaker? Look around you, open your eyes and stop using your radar so much. The more you look, you'll start to notice the cloak shimmer subconsciously.
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Vargralor
Mikramurka Shock Troop
Minmatar Republic
37
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Posted - 2014.04.28 00:06:00 -
[9] - Quote
From both using the cloak myself and having been on the receiving end plenty of times the main issue is that first shot or two where the cloak is still mostly engaged. How about having the cloak shimmer affect the user too so that until the suit is decloaked the crosshair doesn't actually align with where it appears to i.e. when firing whilst still cloaked the shot actually fires in a random cone area around the crosshair rather than directly in the center of it? |
Yan Darn
Science For Death
708
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Posted - 2014.04.28 11:31:00 -
[10] - Quote
The cloak seems strong because of an apparent glitch.
Pressing fire to deactivate the cloaks causes a delay.
However, switching weapon just switches weapon.
Have the same thing happen when press switch weapon as when you press fire (which I presume was the original intention) all the QQ about invisible shotgun should end.
Please note - this gives an advantage to the spotter as the cloaked cannot immediately return fire.
As for passive scans, I hope no one is planning to nerf my gal scout. If it was OP someone should have said so in 1.6 or 1.7.
The Ghost of Bravo
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Litany 0f Fury
Revolution of Evil Henchmen
15
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Posted - 2014.04.28 13:28:00 -
[11] - Quote
Fix the shoot before your uncloaked, agreed.
But also how about if while cloaked your tac-net (Radar) turns off so that while cloaked you cant see what people are doing. In doing so scouts would have to use it more tactically.
but generally i think they need to work on the CPU and PG usage of a lot of things since 1.8.
Commando 'till i die... then another commando
Beta / / Stephenius
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Denn Maell
PIanet Express
Canis Eliminatus Operatives
355
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Posted - 2014.04.28 13:41:00 -
[12] - Quote
Yan Darn wrote:The cloak seems strong because of an apparent glitch.
Pressing fire to deactivate the cloaks causes a delay.
However, switching weapon just switches weapon.
Have the same thing happen when press switch weapon as when you press fire (which I presume was the original intention) all the QQ about invisible shotgun should end.
Please note - this gives an advantage to the spotter as the cloaked cannot immediately return fire.
As for passive scans, I hope no one is planning to nerf my gal scout. If it was OP someone should have said so in 1.6 or 1.7.
I had thought the original intention of Cloaks would be if you "decloaked" using any method excel deactivating the cloak (switching to a weapon, firing, tossing grenade) it would insta-drain the cloak meter? I thought this was a good idea as scouts would have to decided if they wanted to cloak into an engagement or out of one, but not both.
Passive scans: Short of switching Precision to a Optimal Range, Falloff Range deal, the Scan Radius Skill Bonus is too OP for use in city environments. I did see the potential of the Gallente Scout being FotM back in 1.7, but I was assured by the "Scout Community" that a brick-tanked Gallente would neither be viable, nor a fun play style.
The most OP weapon on the Dust Battle Field:
One good logi, one rep tool, and a heavy.
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Finn Colman
Immortal Guides
14
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Posted - 2014.04.28 15:20:00 -
[13] - Quote
Litany 0f Fury wrote:But also how about if while cloaked your tac-net (Radar) turns off so that while cloaked you cant see what people are doing. In doing so scouts would have to use it more tactically.
This Idea sounds good to me, since the cloak takes so much power. |
Yan Darn
Science For Death
715
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Posted - 2014.04.28 16:40:00 -
[14] - Quote
Denn Maell wrote:Yan Darn wrote:The cloak seems strong because of an apparent glitch.
Pressing fire to deactivate the cloaks causes a delay.
However, switching weapon just switches weapon.
Have the same thing happen when press switch weapon as when you press fire (which I presume was the original intention) all the QQ about invisible shotgun should end.
Please note - this gives an advantage to the spotter as the cloaked cannot immediately return fire.
As for passive scans, I hope no one is planning to nerf my gal scout. If it was OP someone should have said so in 1.6 or 1.7. I had thought the original intention of Cloaks would be if you "decloaked" using any method excel deactivating the cloak (switching to a weapon, firing, tossing grenade) it would insta-drain the cloak meter? I thought this was a good idea as scouts would have to decided if they wanted to cloak into an engagement or out of one, but not both. Passive scans: Short of switching Precision to a Optimal Range, Falloff Range deal, the Scan Radius Skill Bonus is too OP for use in city environments. I did see the potential of the Gallente Scout being FotM back in 1.7, but I was assured by the "Scout Community" that a brick-tanked Gallente would neither be viable, nor a fun play style.
Yes, rather ironically the current system effectively gives a free pass to firing from cloak. That CCP accepted the principle that you should never be able to fire from cloak (iirc CPM members started a campaign on this basis), then the current cloak isn't working as intended RE: firing from cloak.
On the passive scan issue - well you have linked it to the 'brick tank' issue. That is an issue with armour plates - just like with the Gal logi and others before it. It is not new to Gal scouts. To put it in perspective:
Basic armour plate gives 85hp at the cost of 2% speed 1pg and 10 CPU
Complex Ferroscales plate gives 75hp at the cost of (from memory) 14 and 30+ CPU
No one can look at those stats and tell me that Armour Plating is balanced, so I don't know how anybody can seriously suggest nerfing cornerstones of ewar scouts like Gal/Cal Passive based on imbalanced tanking mods that affect every frame.
Heavily tanking a scout is similar to heavily speed modding a sentinel. It may work for some (and fitting diversity is a good, fun thing), but it's viability should be very specific and niche.
Current Armour plate stats allow scouts to have a tanking capability that far outweighs the relative benefits offered by a sentinel augmenting its speed (or ewar). It's not the base stats of the frames that allow this to happen, it's the mods involved.
The Ghost of Bravo
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