DUST Search - [Idea] Overshield Applicator

Shadow Archeus wrote:

Hmmm....while this is well thought out and a very imaginative idea.....I have to lean towards no....the point of shields is to have a fast recharge but a smaller amount of HP....this would imbalance the game too much at this point in time

Maybe eventually after larger issues have been fixed and the game is a bit more balanced out

Official verdict: let's put this one on the shelf for right now

Kelbec Illidarie wrote:

Gyn Wallace wrote:

As much as I love the idea of being able to shield rep my heavies, this idea risks diminishing the distinction between shields and armor. Balance is good; balancing at the cost of variety isn't. You don't want shields and armor to be too similar..

the difference between shields and armor is the kinds of damage they can resist. just like in eve, if your shield fit against an amarr fleet their thermal damage will destroy the shields. that is just one example.
further more by adding in the shield rep tool i would also look into reducing the passive recharge rate and tweeking the shield regulators and other mods that effect recharge delay/amount. i would not however change the values of the extenders as i feel they are well balanced against the armor plates. so to sum up the changes im suggesting

- add shield rep tool
- add shield triage nano hive
- greatly reduce passive shield repair rate
- modify shield modules for suits that effect shield recharge delay/amount
- make vehicle armor booster active rather then passive
- add time delay with damage thresh hold for passive armor repair for both suits and vehicles

DeathwindRising wrote:

actually if we got a shield rep tool itd be twice as good as an armor rep since shields are first and only defense for shield tankers in addition to shield tankers having less hp than armor tankers. all shield reps previously in game were way more effective than armor reps.

so your saying less shield hp vs armor hp AND shields being our first and only line of defense is better then more armor hp and having a shield buffer before your massive armor store is even touched is better? i fail to see your logic there. the moment a shield tanked anything looses its shields via dmg or flux leaves them dead to rights the moment anyone gets a bead on them.
as it is now a caldari sentinel or commando are killed off easy by one flux and a simple spray of an automatic rifle or side arm.

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Samuel Zelik D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 175	Posted - 2014.04.26 00:39:00 - [1] - Quote After reading and posting on this thread, I wanted to voice my take on the subject. The Overshield Applicator(OA) is the shield version of the Repair Tool. Unlike the repair tool, which uses a constant stream of nanites to fix damaged armor, the Overshield Applicator transfers a large amount of shields in a short period of time(a pulse). Similar to the Active Scanner, after using the OA, the equipment must recharge its energy output, similar to Dropsuit shielding, before being useable again. The OA would have a minimum recharge restrictor before being activated, like a depleted Cloak Field. The shielding the OA would restore would be equal to a percentage of the target's maximum Dropsuit shielding. Example Values: Pulse Charge-Up: 1.5 seconds - Time needed to release an OA Pulse Maximum Recharge Time: 15 seconds - Time needed to fully charge OA Minimum Recharge Time: 8 seconds - Minimum time needed to re-use OA from the last use Range: 5 m - Proximity to effectively use OA WP: 50-100 per use Based on actual shield % recovered - Amount of WP's based on applied shields restored Standard OA Shields Restored @ full charge: 70% Shields Restored @ mininmum charge: 30% Advanced OA Shields Restored @ full charge: 85% Shields Restored @ mininmum charge: 40% Prototype OA Shields Restored @ full charge: 100% Shields Restored @ minimum charge: 50% The amount of shielding restored between the minimum and maximum recharge time would be scaled appropriately. I was going to use that Installation... Flashlights: Good because yes.
Samuel Zelik D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 183	Posted - 2014.04.27 02:29:00 - [2] - Quote Any feedback? Another thought I had was that instead of having one pulse, use 3 burst pulses to achieve the same thing as above. Ultimately, this would allow for the same amount of shields to be recovered at maximum; however, the OA could be activated more frequently, but similar to the minimum recharge time, restore less shielding. Example Values: Pulse Charge-Up: 0.5 seconds - Time needed to release an OA Pulse Individual Burst Recharge Time: 5 seconds - Time needed to recover an OA burst Range: 5 m - Proximity to effectively use OA WP: 50-100 per use Based on actual shield % recovered - Amount of WP's based on applied shields restored Standard OA Shields Restored per Burst: 70/3% Advanced OA Shields Restored per Burst: 85/3% Prototype OA Shields Restored per Burst: 100/3% The overall Pulse Charge-Up is the same as the original idea, but triggers in faster bursts. The Burst Recharge Time is shorter than the Minimum Recharge Time in the first draft, but also only release 1/3 of the maximum shields that can be restored at full recharge. When both versions are at full, they have the same Charge-Up and also restore the same amount of shielding. Personally, I like this version better because it allows the user to use the OA more often, meaning less down time while recharging. In terms of rivaling the Repair Tool, which requires the user's attention, the Burst OA allows the user to be more mobile and active when waiting for the OA to recharge. I was going to use that Installation... Flashlights: Good because yes.
Shadow Archeus OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 391	Posted - 2014.04.27 02:41:00 - [3] - Quote Hmmm....while this is well thought out and a very imaginative idea.....I have to lean towards no....the point of shields is to have a fast recharge but a smaller amount of HP....this would imbalance the game too much at this point in time Maybe eventually after larger issues have been fixed and the game is a bit more balanced out Official verdict: let's put this one on the shelf for right now Real heavies use lasers
Kelbec Illidarie The Forlorn Hope. 25	Posted - 2014.04.27 02:50:00 - [4] - Quote Shadow Archeus wrote: Hmmm....while this is well thought out and a very imaginative idea.....I have to lean towards no....the point of shields is to have a fast recharge but a smaller amount of HP....this would imbalance the game too much at this point in time Maybe eventually after larger issues have been fixed and the game is a bit more balanced out Official verdict: let's put this one on the shelf for right now i am going to post a quote from my thread regarding shield repair and mechanics to answer you post here. this quote can be located RIGHT HERE Kelbec Illidarie wrote: Gyn Wallace wrote: As much as I love the idea of being able to shield rep my heavies, this idea risks diminishing the distinction between shields and armor. Balance is good; balancing at the cost of variety isn't. You don't want shields and armor to be too similar.. the difference between shields and armor is the kinds of damage they can resist. just like in eve, if your shield fit against an amarr fleet their thermal damage will destroy the shields. that is just one example. further more by adding in the shield rep tool i would also look into reducing the passive recharge rate and tweeking the shield regulators and other mods that effect recharge delay/amount. i would not however change the values of the extenders as i feel they are well balanced against the armor plates. so to sum up the changes im suggesting - add shield rep tool - add shield triage nano hive - greatly reduce passive shield repair rate - modify shield modules for suits that effect shield recharge delay/amount - make vehicle armor booster active rather then passive - add time delay with damage thresh hold for passive armor repair for both suits and vehicles DeathwindRising wrote: actually if we got a shield rep tool itd be twice as good as an armor rep since shields are first and only defense for shield tankers in addition to shield tankers having less hp than armor tankers. all shield reps previously in game were way more effective than armor reps. so your saying less shield hp vs armor hp AND shields being our first and only line of defense is better then more armor hp and having a shield buffer before your massive armor store is even touched is better? i fail to see your logic there. the moment a shield tanked anything looses its shields via dmg or flux leaves them dead to rights the moment anyone gets a bead on them. as it is now a caldari sentinel or commando are killed off easy by one flux and a simple spray of an automatic rifle or side arm. if a shield repair anything of any kind pulse or stream or hive is to be instituted their must be an adjustment to the whole shield mechanic. this is what i addressed in my post i linked. Primary role: Logi Secondary role: Pilot/Tanker
Samuel Zelik D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 183	Posted - 2014.04.27 03:32:00 - [5] - Quote Shadow Archeus wrote: Hmmm....while this is well thought out and a very imaginative idea.....I have to lean towards no....the point of shields is to have a fast recharge but a smaller amount of HP....this would imbalance the game too much at this point in time Maybe eventually after larger issues have been fixed and the game is a bit more balanced out Official verdict: let's put this one on the shelf for right now Oh noes D: ! This idea wouldn't change the overall amount of shields any player would have since the HP recovery works based on a percentage of a unit's shielding and not a set a number; I'm not looking to change Extenders or anything at all. Exactly: shielding should have fast recharge and recovery. Regaining 70% of one's shields (depending on the amount)is a much fast recovery than 150 armor in the same amount of time, is it not? I can see the current values causing imbalance, but numbers can always be tweaked. (Maybe the charge-up could be modified to allow for more damage between bursts.) I honestly think the game is fairly balanced at this point aside from a couple glaring issues. I don't think now is too early to pitch or even implement this idea. Kelbec Illidarie wrote: i am going to post a quote from my thread regarding shield repair and mechanics to answer you post here. this quote can be located RIGHT HERE Kelbec Illidarie wrote: Gyn Wallace wrote: As much as I love the idea of being able to shield rep my heavies, this idea risks diminishing the distinction between shields and armor. Balance is good; balancing at the cost of variety isn't. You don't want shields and armor to be too similar.. the difference between shields and armor is the kinds of damage they can resist. just like in eve, if your shield fit against an amarr fleet their thermal damage will destroy the shields. that is just one example. further more by adding in the shield rep tool i would also look into reducing the passive recharge rate and tweeking the shield regulators and other mods that effect recharge delay/amount. i would not however change the values of the extenders as i feel they are well balanced against the armor plates. so to sum up the changes im suggesting - add shield rep tool - add shield triage nano hive - greatly reduce passive shield repair rate - modify shield modules for suits that effect shield recharge delay/amount - make vehicle armor booster active rather then passive - add time delay with damage thresh hold for passive armor repair for both suits and vehicles I don't know too much about EVE Online, so I can't comment in that regard; however, my statement stands true that EVE and DUST are fundamentally different games and need not have all the same mechanics. Regarding your suggestions: -Yes to shield "rep tool". -Shield triage nano hive is not needed; deployable shields. -At least with the OA, I don't think this would be necessary. -They are already fairly lack-luster, and the OA system wouldn't directly need to affect these at all, so they are fine. -no comment -I don't think this is necessary Kelbec Illidarie wrote: if a shield repair anything of any kind pulse or stream or hive is to be instituted their must be an adjustment to the whole shield mechanic. this is what i addressed in my post i linked. As long as the OA goes into the game either slightly UP or balanced to begin with, this shouldn't be necessary. I was going to use that Installation... Flashlights: Good because yes.
Kelbec Illidarie The Forlorn Hope. 25	Posted - 2014.04.27 04:41:00 - [6] - Quote Samuel Zelik wrote: I don't know too much about EVE Online, so I can't comment in that regard; however, my statement stands true that EVE and DUST are fundamentally different games and need not have all the same mechanics. that is the point a lot of us have. they are different games. however where they are different types of game play their tech and and mechanics should be the same as they are, both games, from the same universe. that being said their are so few mechanics in dust that even resemble eve online. and this is despite that they are both hosted on the same server, the same universe. if you make a game then another of the same universe regardless that they are displaced by the simple distance of service to orbit. their should be 100% if not at least 90% game mechanic similarities. here we have no where near 90%. this is why i suggest the changes i do so that it brings this game closer to the first that ccp as created all ready. if they are so fundamentally different then they should never have created interactions between the two as it is very misleading. Primary role: Logi Secondary role: Pilot/Tanker
Samuel Zelik D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 183	Posted - 2014.04.28 03:07:00 - [7] - Quote Kelbec Illidarie wrote: Samuel Zelik wrote: lack of knowledge that is the point a lot of us have. they are different games. however where they are different types of game play their tech and and mechanics should be the same as they are, both games, from the same universe. that being said their are so few mechanics in dust that even resemble eve online. and this is despite that they are both hosted on the same server, the same universe. if you make a game then another of the same universe regardless that they are displaced by the simple distance of service to orbit. their should be 100% if not at least 90% game mechanic similarities. here we have no where near 90%. this is why i suggest the changes i do so that it brings this game closer to the first that ccp as created all ready. if they were meant to be so fundamentally different then they should never have created interactions between the two as it is very misleading. I agree with your statements about how the games should have similar attributes; however, the unfortunate reality is that Dust is not close to that stage and an overhaul to have the games be more similar will not happen over night. As much as I dislike quick fixes to bigger problems, I'd much rather have something like this implemented in Dust's current format until the ideal, proposed mechanics are implemented (ie: overhaul armageddon), if they ever actually do come. I was going to use that Installation... Flashlights: Good because yes.
Talos Vagheitan Ancient Exiles. 577	Posted - 2014.04.28 03:13:00 - [8] - Quote Definitely like the idea. As much as I would like to see all sorts of crazy gadgets in the game, things like this get hard to balance. Down the road something like this would be cool to have. Who cares what some sniper has to say
deepfried salad gilliam Sanguine Knights 689	Posted - 2014.04.28 03:13:00 - [9] - Quote read title and assumed over shields from halo lol It'll help define roles, i promise:)
Samuel Zelik D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 184	Posted - 2014.04.29 19:28:00 - [10] - Quote Talos Vagheitan wrote: Definitely like the idea. As much as I would like to see all sorts of crazy gadgets in the game, things like this get hard to balance. Down the road something like this would be cool to have. This particular equipment may be harder to balance, but the sooner the better. The Rep Tool needs some parity to balance out Shields & Armor. deepfried salad gilliam wrote: read title and assumed over shields from halo lol Thought the same thing when I first titled it; couldn't think of anything better, though. I was going to use that Installation... Flashlights: Good because yes.

Carter ATHENE BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance 1	Posted - 2014.04.29 19:44:00 - [11] - Quote Maybe it could partially be bio-logical? like the pulse thing it could be the mix of a shark and a squid maybe? Like sharks use electrical pulses, or something to find prey and squids are very uhh... Elastic. So its like a gun that overloads the creatures body like roofies and causes it to send out a pre-enhanced pulse through flash clone breeding?
Samuel Zelik D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 185	Posted - 2014.04.30 20:31:00 - [12] - Quote Carter ATHENE wrote: Maybe it could partially be bio-logical? like the pulse thing it could be the mix of a shark and a squid maybe? Like sharks use electrical pulses, or something to find prey and squids are very uhh... Elastic. So its like a gun that overloads the creatures body like roofies and causes it to send out a pre-enhanced pulse through flash clone breeding? Um... yeah... if it gets this implemented faster, then sure; I'm all for it. Otherwise, probably not. I was going to use that Installation... Flashlights: Good because yes.
Samuel Zelik D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 188	Posted - 2014.05.02 02:58:00 - [13] - Quote I have Updated the idea to address some of the concern(s) with this idea. In short, I have tried to highlight the strengths and weaknesses of the Overshield Applicator as compared to the Repair Tool. Overall, the Overshield Applicator would provide a more swift recovery in a short period of time, whereas the Repair Tool can sustain repairing less damage continuously, which amounts to greater repairs over time. Despite this only being theoretical, I would appreciate feedback on this analysis; thanks. I was going to use that Installation... Flashlights: Good because yes.
Samuel Zelik D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 196	Posted - 2014.05.22 19:21:00 - [14] - Quote bump for Shield balance supplement I was going to use that Installation... Flashlights: Good because yes.
Defy Gravity 415	Posted - 2014.05.25 07:42:00 - [15] - Quote bump I want a blue tag on this I like this idea we need this If I kill you in game, look for a confirmation that says "I Just Killed You"


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