DUST Search - Tanker KDR - What should it be?

Athena Sentinel wrote:

True Adamance wrote:

Denn Maell wrote:

Athena Sentinel wrote:

CCP are game simulators. See EVE for details. Its amazing real science and math simulating space,

Dust is a version of that. Lets not get hung up there. But themed with EVE is similar and hopeful soon joined.

My point. In real life if a army had a tank there was clear unstoppable power. The other army had to deploy specialized tactics or deploy a tank... Before this horses on the battle field played the same unstoppable power.

I don't use tanks, but if they get 40-0 and you QQ ... Bad on you. If you hate it so much specialise to blow them up - the gratification will be 10 fold fueled by revenge.

A good attitude to have, to be sure. But Eve and Dust both have strong elements of team play involved. In Eve a well built fleet is superior in every way to a solo player. In Dust, a well equipped squad working together will dominate against randomns.

Tanks require 1 operator and usually don't equip small turrets. It is also not uncommon to witness a squad raining down "specialized retaliation" against a tank and they get away before being destroyed.

To many benefits for players who put emphasis on fitting their HAV selfishly and not enough for those who choose to do it otherwise.

You both make very good points. I can't argue that.

Still I guess if I had any issue with them it would be that they are invisible on my map. Heavies are easier to see then tanks lol.

If the balance is really off, I have not witnessed it. But the favor should go to the tank or often the more costly item. I don't believe 2 or 3 guys with swarm launchers at lvl 3 should take out a tank - I suspect this is what is happening now. But it should limit the tanks ability to combat effectively.. It will not be getting 40-0!

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Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 517	Posted - 2014.04.23 02:43:00 - [1] - Quote Obviously there are not enough threads about tanks or protostomping so I thought I would rectify that. When discussing balance there is no single metric that can encompass all the variables but kdr is probably the best one to compare. So what do you think the AVERAGE tanker kdr should be? Why? What do you think it is right now? Because, that's why.
jerrmy12 kahoalii Proficiency V. 1145	Posted - 2014.04.23 02:44:00 - [2] - Quote Nothing Certain wrote: Obviously there are not enough threads about tanks or protostomping so I thought I would rectify that. When discussing balance there is no single metric that can encompass all the variables but kdr is probably the best one to compare. So what do you think the AVERAGE tanker kdr should be? Why? What do you think it is right now? 5.0 minimum I <3 girl gamers Tears, sweet delicious tears
Travis Stanush GunFall Mobilization 121	Posted - 2014.04.23 02:44:00 - [3] - Quote It's over 9000 No I will not show you where they touched me!!!
Harpyja Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1631	Posted - 2014.04.23 02:46:00 - [4] - Quote Mine's about 3.5. I run on foot sometimes, though it's just a basic Caldari medium so I tend to die a lot. I also run a missile Gunnlogi so it's never about the amount of kills for me; it's the amount of WP's I can earn and the amount of ISK I'm rewarded with at the end of the match. I tend to top the scoreboard with less than 10 kills. I believe my best such match was about 7 kills and 3500 WP. "By His light, and His will" - The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 517	Posted - 2014.04.23 02:51:00 - [5] - Quote Just to clarify, I am not asking what a good tankers kdr would be, but what kdr would show tanks being balanced. Although I do like to hear how tankers actually fare and hear their views when we aren't in opposition. Because, that's why.
Gelhad Thremyr Quebec United Caps and Mercs 241	Posted - 2014.04.23 02:52:00 - [6] - Quote Each time i see a tank it rarely goes under 10, unless mercs organise and the map enables footmen to get proper shielding. We still have small maps in ambush that are really small with no cover, tanks when called simply dominates the ground, there should be a flag on some maps that when they are too small, no vehicles should be permitted, so yeah around 10, milkman is the worst most of the time i see him at around 25\0....
jerrmy12 kahoalii Proficiency V. 1146	Posted - 2014.04.23 02:52:00 - [7] - Quote Nothing Certain wrote: Just to clarify, I am not asking what a good tankers kdr would be, but what kdr would show tanks being balanced. Although I do like to hear how tankers actually fare and hear their views when we aren't in opposition. 2.50 I <3 girl gamers Tears, sweet delicious tears
Charlotte O'Dell Sooper Speshul Ponee Fors Dropsuit Samurai 2428	Posted - 2014.04.23 02:58:00 - [8] - Quote ait...are you suggesting we use KDR to gauge BALANCE!? Who even cares!? All a high KDR means is an ambush stomping tank noob. In Chrome we had a word for those people: Fags. But I digress, a railgun or missile specced tanker will have a lower KDR than a blaster specced pilot. Charlotte O'Dell is the highest level unicorn!
jerrmy12 kahoalii Proficiency V. 1147	Posted - 2014.04.23 03:00:00 - [9] - Quote Charlotte O'Dell wrote: ait...are you suggesting we use KDR to gauge BALANCE!? Who even cares!? All a high KDR means is an ambush stomping tank noob. In Chrome we had a word for those people: Fags. But I digress, a railgun or missile specced tanker will have a lower KDR than a blaster specced pilot. Your getting banned, because in a post the only word I said was "feg" so be prepared for people to report I <3 girl gamers Tears, sweet delicious tears
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 517	Posted - 2014.04.23 03:06:00 - [10] - Quote Charlotte O'Dell wrote: ait...are you suggesting we use KDR to gauge BALANCE!? Who even cares!? All a high KDR means is an ambush stomping tank noob. In Chrome we had a word for those people: Fags. But I digress, a railgun or missile specced tanker will have a lower KDR than a blaster specced pilot. Yes, which is why I am asking for averages, not individual kdr. Because, that's why.

True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 9647	Posted - 2014.04.23 03:16:00 - [11] - Quote I never play ambush, I won't ever play it if I can help it, and prefer to only play in FW where we get some good challengers. I sit on a 2.54 currently that grows whenever I play.... I just don't play very much now. Personally I think a long term "good tankers" should have about a 3.0 KDR. "Get thine Swag out of my face! Next you'll be writing #YOLOswagforJamyl in all your posts!" -Dagger Two
Joseph Ridgeson WarRavens League of Infamy 1247	Posted - 2014.04.23 03:42:00 - [12] - Quote Balancing by KDR is a bad way to look at it. A Redline Sniper may have a lower KDR than a really good Assault player. Which one do people consider detrimental to the game and needs to be removed? "People that quote themselves in signatures confuse me." -Joseph Ridgeson
Denn Maell PIanet Express Canis Eliminatus Operatives 330	Posted - 2014.04.23 03:49:00 - [13] - Quote Nothing Certain wrote: Just to clarify, I am not asking what a good tankers kdr would be, but what kdr would show tanks being balanced. Although I do like to hear how tankers actually fare and hear their views when we aren't in opposition. I'd say it should be more in line (although a little higher) than an average 'Good' Assault player. I should mention that I would prefer if the HAV was a more dedicated anti-vehicle vehicle rather than a semi-invincible meat grinder, with Large turrets very difficult to hit infantryGÇªso I may be a little biased. The most OP weapon on the Dust Battle Field: One good logi, one rep tool, and a heavy.
Rusty Shallows 1630	Posted - 2014.04.23 03:54:00 - [14] - Quote Charlotte O'Dell wrote: ait...are you suggesting we use KDR to gauge BALANCE!? snip It was used against "God Mode" Tower Forgers, who incidentally were getting lower KDRs than the current Blaster HAVs. Also back in Chrome the Proto-Laser and its safe ranged insta-gibbing. Last year there was broad agreement the death part of KDR meant vehicles needed to be fixed. Forums > Game: So here is a cookie and a Like. Please keep posting. Bwahahahahahahahahahaha! >>> GòÜ(GÇóGîéGÇó)Gò¥ >>>
Seymor Krelborn L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 2075	Posted - 2014.04.23 04:02:00 - [15] - Quote Nothing Certain wrote: Obviously there are not enough threads about tanks or protostomping so I thought I would rectify that. When discussing balance there is no single metric that can encompass all the variables but kdr is probably the best one to compare. So what do you think the AVERAGE tanker kdr should be? Why? What do you think it is right now? I cant see how you put an avg KDR on tankers and balance them from that ideal.... really tankers should get it as good as they are at tanking, I don't even think you really need to touch tanks, what we need is better av, more balanced av.... and cloaks on jihadi jeeps. this game makes me sad....
Athena Sentinel SOE Knights Templar 278	Posted - 2014.04.23 04:55:00 - [16] - Quote CCP are game simulators. See EVE for details. Its amazing real science and math simulating space, Dust is a version of that. Lets not get hung up there. But themed with EVE is similar and hopeful soon joined. My point. In real life if a army had a tank there was clear unstoppable power. The other army had to deploy specialized tactics or deploy a tank... Before this horses on the battle field played the same unstoppable power. I don't use tanks, but if they get 40-0 and you QQ ... Bad on you. If you hate it so much specialise to blow them up - the gratification will be 10 fold fueled by revenge.
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 13051	Posted - 2014.04.23 05:01:00 - [17] - Quote Over nine thousand Travis Stanush wrote: It's over 9000 CURSE YOU NINJA!!!!! My Music Videos & Fan Fiction Mostly Solo ADS Pilot
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 9659	Posted - 2014.04.23 05:05:00 - [18] - Quote Seymor Krelborn wrote: Nothing Certain wrote: Obviously there are not enough threads about tanks or protostomping so I thought I would rectify that. When discussing balance there is no single metric that can encompass all the variables but kdr is probably the best one to compare. So what do you think the AVERAGE tanker kdr should be? Why? What do you think it is right now? I cant see how you put an avg KDR on tankers and balance them from that ideal.... really tankers should get it as good as they are at tanking, I don't even think you really need to touch tanks, what we need is better av, more balanced av.... and cloaks on jihadi jeeps. This thread has nothing to do with balance....its just a person asking TANKERS what they feel their KDR's should be to qualify as a "good tankers". Mine is 0.5 higher than my own, objectively speaking if a tanker can't kill at least 3 people for a single life, the same values I place on my Commando, then they aren't doing the best they can. "Get thine Swag out of my face! Next you'll be writing #YOLOswagforJamyl in all your posts!" -Dagger Two
Denn Maell PIanet Express Canis Eliminatus Operatives 330	Posted - 2014.04.23 05:05:00 - [19] - Quote Athena Sentinel wrote: CCP are game simulators. See EVE for details. Its amazing real science and math simulating space, Dust is a version of that. Lets not get hung up there. But themed with EVE is similar and hopeful soon joined. My point. In real life if a army had a tank there was clear unstoppable power. The other army had to deploy specialized tactics or deploy a tank... Before this horses on the battle field played the same unstoppable power. I don't use tanks, but if they get 40-0 and you QQ ... Bad on you. If you hate it so much specialise to blow them up - the gratification will be 10 fold fueled by revenge. A good attitude to have, to be sure. But Eve and Dust both have strong elements of team play involved. In Eve a well built fleet is superior in every way to a solo player. In Dust, a well equipped squad working together will dominate against randomns. Tanks require 1 operator and usually don't equip small turrets. It is also not uncommon to witness a squad raining down "specialized retaliation" against a tank and they get away before being destroyed. The most OP weapon on the Dust Battle Field: One good logi, one rep tool, and a heavy.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 9659	Posted - 2014.04.23 05:07:00 - [20] - Quote Denn Maell wrote: Athena Sentinel wrote: CCP are game simulators. See EVE for details. Its amazing real science and math simulating space, Dust is a version of that. Lets not get hung up there. But themed with EVE is similar and hopeful soon joined. My point. In real life if a army had a tank there was clear unstoppable power. The other army had to deploy specialized tactics or deploy a tank... Before this horses on the battle field played the same unstoppable power. I don't use tanks, but if they get 40-0 and you QQ ... Bad on you. If you hate it so much specialise to blow them up - the gratification will be 10 fold fueled by revenge. A good attitude to have, to be sure. But Eve and Dust both have strong elements of team play involved. In Eve a well built fleet is superior in every way to a solo player. In Dust, a well equipped squad working together will dominate against randomns. Tanks require 1 operator and usually don't equip small turrets. It is also not uncommon to witness a squad raining down "specialized retaliation" against a tank and they get away before being destroyed. To many benefits for players who put emphasis on fitting their HAV selfishly and not enough for those who choose to do it otherwise. "Get thine Swag out of my face! Next you'll be writing #YOLOswagforJamyl in all your posts!" -Dagger Two

Auris Lionesse Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 749	Posted - 2014.04.23 05:07:00 - [21] - Quote Balanced would be 1. Av should blow up tanks and tanks should kill infantry. the whole a good tanker can survive thing is bs. Tankers can kill avers infantry can't kill tanks like they used to. Meaning tanks need to be as vulnerable to av as infantry is to vehicles now Balance is 1:1:1 Gallente Heavy Ninja Turtles! Gallente Heavy Ninja Turtles! Heroes in a half Gank! *TURTLE POWER!!!*
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 9660	Posted - 2014.04.23 05:11:00 - [22] - Quote Auris Lionesse wrote: Balanced would be 1. Av should blow up tanks and tanks should kill infantry. the whole a good tanker can survive thing is bs. Tankers can kill avers infantry can't kill tanks like they used to. Meaning tanks need to be as vulnerable to av as infantry is to vehicles now Balance is 1:1:1 Debateable. A Good infantry man can kill 2-3 clones of every one they loose. Some who are very skilful and lucky never die. Why is it unfair that I can kill 2-3 for every vehicle I loose, and if I player well and carefully I never die? "Get thine Swag out of my face! Next you'll be writing #YOLOswagforJamyl in all your posts!" -Dagger Two
Athena Sentinel SOE Knights Templar 279	Posted - 2014.04.23 05:15:00 - [23] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Denn Maell wrote: Athena Sentinel wrote: CCP are game simulators. See EVE for details. Its amazing real science and math simulating space, Dust is a version of that. Lets not get hung up there. But themed with EVE is similar and hopeful soon joined. My point. In real life if a army had a tank there was clear unstoppable power. The other army had to deploy specialized tactics or deploy a tank... Before this horses on the battle field played the same unstoppable power. I don't use tanks, but if they get 40-0 and you QQ ... Bad on you. If you hate it so much specialise to blow them up - the gratification will be 10 fold fueled by revenge. A good attitude to have, to be sure. But Eve and Dust both have strong elements of team play involved. In Eve a well built fleet is superior in every way to a solo player. In Dust, a well equipped squad working together will dominate against randomns. Tanks require 1 operator and usually don't equip small turrets. It is also not uncommon to witness a squad raining down "specialized retaliation" against a tank and they get away before being destroyed. To many benefits for players who put emphasis on fitting their HAV selfishly and not enough for those who choose to do it otherwise. You both make very good points. I can't argue that. Still I guess if I had any issue with them it would be that they are invisible on my map. Heavies are easier to see then tanks lol. If the balance is really off, I have not witnessed it. But the favor should go to the tank or often the more costly item. I don't believe 2 or 3 guys with swarm launchers at lvl 3 should take out a tank - I suspect this is what is happening now. But it should limit the tanks ability to combat effectively.. It will not be getting 40-0!
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui The Containment Unit 619	Posted - 2014.04.23 05:23:00 - [24] - Quote Auris Lionesse wrote: Balanced would be 1. Av should blow up tanks and tanks should kill infantry. the whole a good tanker can survive thing is bs. Tankers can kill avers infantry can't kill tanks like they used to. Meaning tanks need to be as vulnerable to av as infantry is to vehicles now Balance is 1:1:1 How can you equate a hard armor infantry support ... anti-vehicle " Machine " against a " Meat-Bag " ??? That's like saying , " A car should be as strong as a person or the person that's driving it . " and if that was the case ... there would be way more vehicular homicide's . People that say that just don't make much since to me but what do I know ??? Comparing a vehicle machine to a person slash " Meat-Bag " just doesn't seem like sound reasoning or balance . Stop asking for tiercide , your killing variety and the fun of this game at the same dam time .
DozersMouse XIII Ultramarine Corp 487	Posted - 2014.04.23 05:45:00 - [25] - Quote Nothing Certain wrote: Obviously there are not enough threads about tanks or protostomping so I thought I would rectify that. When discussing balance there is no single metric that can encompass all the variables but kdr is probably the best one to compare. So what do you think the AVERAGE tanker kdr should be? Why? What do you think it is right now? clarify a better question would be what is a blaster tanker kdr Vs a rail tankers kdr also I don't tank much but I have an alt with over 10 mill I put all in to rails and gunnlogi I never used this acc for anything it just accumulated SP for months I have a 6+ kdr on this account but less then 300 kills Bacon pancakes makin' bacon pancakes Take some bacon and I'll put it a pancake Bacon pancakes thats what it's gonna make
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 12639	Posted - 2014.04.23 06:07:00 - [26] - Quote 70 Duna is the only tanker who makes tanks actually work, it's really sad. They need more buffs, especially blaster turrets against infantry. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake. EUrobro
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 518	Posted - 2014.04.23 06:35:00 - [27] - Quote Joseph Ridgeson wrote: Balancing by KDR is a bad way to look at it. A Redline Sniper may have a lower KDR than a really good Assault player. Which one do people consider detrimental to the game and needs to be removed? Again, individual performance isn't the issue or the gauge, what is important is how ALL snipers do against X, or in this case all tankers. I am interested in the bell curve, not the outliers. Because, that's why.
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 518	Posted - 2014.04.23 06:40:00 - [28] - Quote Seymor Krelborn wrote: Nothing Certain wrote: Obviously there are not enough threads about tanks or protostomping so I thought I would rectify that. When discussing balance there is no single metric that can encompass all the variables but kdr is probably the best one to compare. So what do you think the AVERAGE tanker kdr should be? Why? What do you think it is right now? I cant see how you put an avg KDR on tankers and balance them from that ideal.... really tankers should get it as good as they are at tanking, I don't even think you really need to touch tanks, what we need is better av, more balanced av.... and cloaks on jihadi jeeps. As i stated, kdr doesn't capture all the variables, but how many you kill and how often you die are both the easiest and most important measures of how you fare against others. Do you have another objective metric that is better? I can't think of one. Because, that's why.
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 518	Posted - 2014.04.23 06:42:00 - [29] - Quote Athena Sentinel wrote: CCP are game simulators. See EVE for details. Its amazing real science and math simulating space, Dust is a version of that. Lets not get hung up there. But themed with EVE is similar and hopeful soon joined. My point. In real life if a army had a tank there was clear unstoppable power. The other army had to deploy specialized tactics or deploy a tank... Before this horses on the battle field played the same unstoppable power. I don't use tanks, but if they get 40-0 and you QQ ... Bad on you. If you hate it so much specialise to blow them up - the gratification will be 10 fold fueled by revenge. So your answer is that the tanker kdr average should be 40-0? Because, that's why.
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 518	Posted - 2014.04.23 06:45:00 - [30] - Quote Athena Sentinel wrote: True Adamance wrote: Denn Maell wrote: Athena Sentinel wrote: CCP are game simulators. See EVE for details. Its amazing real science and math simulating space, Dust is a version of that. Lets not get hung up there. But themed with EVE is similar and hopeful soon joined. My point. In real life if a army had a tank there was clear unstoppable power. The other army had to deploy specialized tactics or deploy a tank... Before this horses on the battle field played the same unstoppable power. I don't use tanks, but if they get 40-0 and you QQ ... Bad on you. If you hate it so much specialise to blow them up - the gratification will be 10 fold fueled by revenge. A good attitude to have, to be sure. But Eve and Dust both have strong elements of team play involved. In Eve a well built fleet is superior in every way to a solo player. In Dust, a well equipped squad working together will dominate against randomns. Tanks require 1 operator and usually don't equip small turrets. It is also not uncommon to witness a squad raining down "specialized retaliation" against a tank and they get away before being destroyed. To many benefits for players who put emphasis on fitting their HAV selfishly and not enough for those who choose to do it otherwise. You both make very good points. I can't argue that. Still I guess if I had any issue with them it would be that they are invisible on my map. Heavies are easier to see then tanks lol. If the balance is really off, I have not witnessed it. But the favor should go to the tank or often the more costly item. I don't believe 2 or 3 guys with swarm launchers at lvl 3 should take out a tank - I suspect this is what is happening now. But it should limit the tanks ability to combat effectively.. It will not be getting 40-0! Could you explain your reasoning why 2 or 3 players using advanced fits shouldn't be able to kill one player? Because, that's why.



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