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licio br Northern Rangers 3	Posted - 2014.04.22 17:13:00 - [1] - Quote Hey; I consider myself pretty good at FPS with k/d well above 1.0, however I cant get good at dust. I love the game and the promises for the future but currently I am at bellow 0.5 k/d. Not to mention that I am getting about 200 wps/game and when I compare that with other players the difference is abysmal. I got almost 10m sp mostly in AR, sniping and SL. Just can't figure out I am doing wrong. Any tips appreciated. Thanks.
Alex-P-Keaton Kramer Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 28	Posted - 2014.04.22 17:16:00 - [2] - Quote licio br wrote: Hey; I consider myself pretty good at FPS with k/d well above 1.0, however I cant get good at dust. I love the game and the promises for the future but currently I am at bellow 0.5 k/d. Not to mention that I am getting about 200 wps/game and when I compare that with other players the difference is abysmal. I got almost 10m sp mostly in AR, sniping and SL. Just can't figure out I am doing wrong. Any tips appreciated. Thanks. your skill points is what you did wrong 33 seems to be my lucky number http://i57.tinypic.com/301n33b.jpg http://i58.tinypic.com/30c4pwk.jpg
Tony Duster K-A-O-S theory 8	Posted - 2014.04.22 17:20:00 - [3] - Quote licio br wrote: I got almost 10m sp mostly in AR, sniping and SL. Get those core drop suit upgrades, they'll help you live longer and let you fit modules that help you live longer too. Weapons shouldn't be the main focus. I've got 20mil and only use standard weapons. Figuring out how to die less is better than killing more. Knowing when to run from firefights and healing up is something I find pretty thrilling about this game.
RayRay James Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 97	Posted - 2014.04.22 17:24:00 - [4] - Quote licio br wrote: Hey; I consider myself pretty good at FPS with k/d well above 1.0, however I cant get good at dust. I love the game and the promises for the future but currently I am at bellow 0.5 k/d. Not to mention that I am getting about 200 wps/game and when I compare that with other players the difference is abysmal. I got almost 10m sp mostly in AR, sniping and SL. Just can't figure out I am doing wrong. Any tips appreciated. Thanks. Another thing to consider with Dust, is it is way less about K/D than it is winning the match. Your payouts are dependent on WP, so in addition to just killing thing, use your equipment slots on thing like uplinks, nanohives, and needles and generate extra WP that way. Core skills are much more important that proto guns and suits. Train these from now on. Get them AT LEAST to 3. If you aren't in a corp ( I forgot to look before I started to reply ) find a corp that is willing to help you, you can add me to your contacts and try and squad with me when I'm active (I'm on a lot, I'm not always active when logged in). Running with a squad will help you die less and your equipment slots will come into play even more. If you have any questions, please feel free to message me and I'll do my best to help.
Charlotte O'Dell Sooper Speshul Ponee Fors Dropsuit Samurai 2427	Posted - 2014.04.22 17:27:00 - [5] - Quote licio br wrote: Hey; I consider myself pretty good at FPS with k/d well above 1.0, however I cant get good at dust. I love the game and the promises for the future but currently I am at bellow 0.5 k/d. Not to mention that I am getting about 200 wps/game and when I compare that with other players the difference is abysmal. I got almost 10m sp mostly in AR, sniping and SL. Just can't figure out I am doing wrong. Any tips appreciated. Thanks. Do you run with squads who like eachother and communicate, effectively? Charlotte O'Dell is the highest level unicorn!
Scheherazade VII 433	Posted - 2014.04.22 17:57:00 - [6] - Quote licio br wrote: Hey; I consider myself pretty good at FPS with k/d well above 1.0, however I cant get good at dust. I love the game and the promises for the future but currently I am at bellow 0.5 k/d. Not to mention that I am getting about 200 wps/game and when I compare that with other players the difference is abysmal. I got almost 10m sp mostly in AR, sniping and SL. Just can't figure out I am doing wrong. Any tips appreciated. Thanks. use this dropsuit militia gallente medium frame 3x enhanced armour plates now it might be 2x enhanced armour and 1x enhanced reactive plate, make sure you have some armour rep. that gives you 612 armour with a rep of 2hp/s it's slow rep but is a formiddable suit when coupled with... combat rifle! spec up to ADV and use the BK, you have NO high slots on this suit but you don't need damage mods or shield. I have prof 3 on the CR now and with prof 5 and complex armour gauranteed i could go head to head with heavies, in a militia suit. make sure to leave some room for a nanohive and the suit will cost you under 30K 27K for ADV weapon (which is a beast) and over 600 armour (with max upgrades you have 762hp total) now you have a cheap suit with killing power and good HP buffer. try experimenting with plates, the secret to success is REACTIVE plates, they are incredible, try 2 of them with 1x enhanced armour plate and you will have 421armour with 4hp/s rep. it's sad how I remember all this. Also one other piece of advice is this, as soon as the game starts press select and hit TEAM, join any squad you see, the more full the better, you will benefit from not only having a squad but being able to see what they see and also having their support in repping you etc. Make a cheap fit, take my fit, it's incredible, it's a militia suit and I walk all over people with it. And in a squad you will find that you have more fun. Also the SL and SR are not great weapons to spec into, the swarm launcher is a peashooter against most vehicles and the SR hit detection felt off the last time I used it and damage mods got nerfed, then again I still get destroyed by 6 snipers on the bridge map so maybe im wrong! if you don't want an assault suit then perhaps try support, use uplinks in domination, use a rep tool and hide round corners whilst heavies take the flak (they are the front-runners after all) you will get thousands of WP in no time, you could easily get 2000-3000, kill when you have to, make sure your entire team is at full health all the time, constantly run between them, stick behind a heavy with 1000 armour and the points will come. how about this? group up with a heavy, put the squad order on him (hold R3, go to defend, click R1 on the target) when you repair him you will get 25 points for triage, 35 for guardian AND you will get commission from his kills. nanohives, uplinks, rep tools are the key. I've had some games where the points are appearing on my screen so fast I can't keep up with them. I played one game in domination which ive been meaning to upload to youtube where 8-10 players all got over 3000wp in the same game, domination can be insane for points. don't worry about your KD, but if you want assault, use my guy above, but DUST is about more than killing. don't risk expensive suits as support roles as you will die a lot more than if you were a killer, just stay back and repair, drop uplinks in a convenient place and guaranteed you will break 1000wp in your first game. I don't really care to play DUST right now, I may try tonight as I see they have fixed the spawn glitch (thank you kindly) so I guess I should try to help out new players. Armour is still most prevalent in this game, 600+ armour a MLT suit? that's desirable, combat rifle is a BEAST, everyone uses it and if they don't they get smoked by someone who is, drop the assault rifle and use the CR before it gets nerfed, just be wary of the very fast clip-emptying time, it fires very fast if you haven't used it before. get your cores up, perhaps use a kin cat with armour and an armour rep, gallente medium fame has 3 low slots so you can experiment a lot! i realise you only have 10M SP but you should have enough to spec into a different weapon and get some good plates.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 503	Posted - 2014.04.22 18:06:00 - [7] - Quote First, put down the Swarm Launcher and don't bring it out again until its fixed. Firing Swarms begs for whatever you're shooting at to turn its attention to you next. Firing Swarms lets any nearby infantry know that you're defenseless. Second, sniping is a good way to start Dust but it has seen better days than the present. Sniper Rifle damage output hasn't kept pace with Uprising's ever-increasing eHP. Target tracking remains choppy and inconsistent; scopes suffer from poor fidelity. I believe the Heavy Frame is presently a newbro's best bet. Keep close to the pack and steer clear of open spaces. Discover why Death Taxis are making a comeback :-) Bang?
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 511	Posted - 2014.04.22 18:13:00 - [8] - Quote licio br wrote: Hey; I consider myself pretty good at FPS with k/d well above 1.0, however I cant get good at dust. I love the game and the promises for the future but currently I am at bellow 0.5 k/d. Not to mention that I am getting about 200 wps/game and when I compare that with other players the difference is abysmal. I got almost 10m sp mostly in AR, sniping and SL. Just can't figure out I am doing wrong. Any tips appreciated. Thanks. I advise switching to CR, easy to fit, versatile and deadly or go with a heavy and HMG if you want to raise your kdr. I have swarms but you aren't going to kill much or make any points with them. If you go heavy you can get Commando too which go well with swarms. There are already long posts to guide you, but you should realize there are plenty of guys doing like you are, the forums has quite a few better than average players and a lot of people whose words you have to take with a huge dose of salt. I have friends who do really well in other FPS and they didn't do well in Dust. Because, that's why.
Hansei Kaizen The Jackson Five 157	Posted - 2014.04.22 18:53:00 - [9] - Quote I advise you dont play aggressive until you have the core skills on lvl 3-4 each, takes only a few Mio SP. And even then, its tough to impossible to compete with 30-60 Mio SP vets at the top of the board (the guys getting above 30 kills and die 3 times max.). You just wont catch up to them SP- and knowledge-wise. They play since Beta and run active and passive SP boosters since then + they play very much. Even if you get boosters now, and play a damn lot, you can not catch up under any circumstance. I am dead serious. You have physically no chance. But you can still hope CCP implements something new player friendly this year. Like PvE or Matchmaking. The answer to your complaint is PvE. Always. NPE status: (Gò»°Gûí°n+ëGò»n+¦ Gö+GöüGö+ Casual solo
Seeth Mensch Capital Acquisitions LLC Dirt Nap Squad. 217	Posted - 2014.04.22 18:58:00 - [10] - Quote licio br wrote: Hey; I consider myself pretty good at FPS with k/d well above 1.0, however I cant get good at dust. I love the game and the promises for the future but currently I am at bellow 0.5 k/d. Not to mention that I am getting about 200 wps/game and when I compare that with other players the difference is abysmal. I got almost 10m sp mostly in AR, sniping and SL. Just can't figure out I am doing wrong. Any tips appreciated. Thanks. We all hit that point somewhere. I think you probably need a couple of things: One, start putting points in your basic suit upgrades. They make a far bigger difference than you might think. Two, check out the rookie forums. Going and checking them out can really help sometimes remind us of the basic mistakes that we have built into our playstyle. If you aren't in a corp with some folks that are "better" than you (not just better at playing a single thing, just those guys who are routinely outscoring you and always doing different things), get into one. Dust University has some amazing folks, and Fox Gaden is really good in his instructional tutorials in the forums. GL. /fades away

Medical Crash CLONES AGAINST HUMANITY 296	Posted - 2014.04.22 19:01:00 - [11] - Quote licio br wrote: Hey; I consider myself pretty good at FPS with k/d well above 1.0, however I cant get good at dust. I love the game and the promises for the future but currently I am at bellow 0.5 k/d. Not to mention that I am getting about 200 wps/game and when I compare that with other players the difference is abysmal. I got almost 10m sp mostly in AR, sniping and SL. Just can't figure out I am doing wrong. Any tips appreciated. Thanks. You're not a troll right? If not, then I'd be glad to help you out. Apply to my Corp, and I'll try to get you in my squad. You see Dust is not very "solo" friendly, unless you specced into scouts-preferably the Gallente Scout. There is no "infantry" mode, so any players you squad with must have at least 1 vehicle person. After that you squad layout will depend on what is available to you. For example- 6 man squad- 1-Logi- First suit uplinks- all three slots, next suit scanner-Needle-Repair tool (use the core + minmatar suit if possible) (Save some uplinks for near the objective) 2-Heavy- Armour stack, stay near cover- enemies will try to take out your repper first, logis stick out, CCP made us "bullseye" bee yellow. 3-Gallente Logi + 4 Scanners(Duvolle Focused x 2 (100 m, 15db), Creo Flux SCanner X2 ( 200 m 21 dB?) (Needs to hide, (4+ dampners a must, I use 5), must scan 24/7, no combat for you) 4-Gal Scout- protect your frontline Logis from getting flanked 5-Combat Suit- any suit with High Hp/High Fire power 6-Tanker/ADS pilot Let's say you're playing Domination. Have a guy with an SSD drive spawn first, have him call out a Dropship- stat- Fly to a Tower near the objective if possible, fly near the objective first to drop off your teammates. Your squad should have spawned on your ships CRU. PLace uplinks on a high platform near the objective. Have Combat player spawn hives on tower, suicide, bring a FG - keeo the enemy Dropships off your tower, defend you uplinks, give support to your tanker. Scanner guy spawns and hides 100 m from objective, he has 200 meter scanners so he can be some distance away. His job is to hide, maintain scans, and monitor the Tac Net. Your tankers are blind, you don't want them having to push start, so your intel guy will tell him where enemy vehicles are heading from. If possible have tanker bait enemy vehicles to Forge Gunner for some support, Gal Scout, Frontline Logi, + your Heavy all head to the obective. Heavy stays out of the open, your Logi must NEVER be exposed. Your scout remains cloaked nearby waiting to interecept enemy suits trying to flank you. You lose the vehicle match and you're basically done for, so either q sync with other squads that have tankers, or cross your fingers cause you'll need to luck. The matchmaking in this game is trash. And again, I will help you if you squad with me. My corp has been accepting many lower SP members, we intend to train them until they are PC ready. I prefer to heal with my Minmatar Logi ( Core Rep tool), but will switch to my Gallente Logi to scan if there is too many enemy scouts (must find some crates to hide behind haha) Worst happens and we have NO vehicle support, then I call out my tanks or ADS (if the bolas gods doesn't feel like destroying it) *** Almost forgot, have the squad leader set the "defend order" on your logi. I make mad points when I heal damaged Heavies. Don't use your orbital until your intel guy has scanned the objective. Aim for the biggest clump of enemies, or an enemy bolas OR an enemy objective if you need it cleared. Keep in mind the OB won't hit players if they are under certain areas.
Eko Sol Strange Playings 195	Posted - 2014.04.22 19:07:00 - [12] - Quote It's not going to be a weapon. You only need 3 or 4 in a weapon to be successful with it. My recommendations are as follows: Goto 4 in Electronics, Engineering, Armor, shields, biotics, and core. You MUST goto 5 in dampening and 3 in range amp and 3 in precision at a minimum I would highly recommend going 4 in combat rifle and learning how to use that properly. Get your sharp shooting to 4 and reload to 4. It has an extremely fast reload and if you are decent at burst weapons or have a modded controller then it is likely the best weapon in the entire game. Don't worry about damage mods and you only need 3 in armor plates. There is almost zero reason to goto 4 or 5. Don't go proto in any suit. Stay advanced unless you are running a scout with a cloak. If you aren't running cloak then you only need 3 or 4. That last 1.2 mil or 2mil (if only at 3) is pointless. Lastly goto 3 in one of your favorite side arms. There are people who have maxed out the SMG and run that as their main weapon with damage mods. The smg is still quite good. I prefer the flaylock the most. I love the feeling of killing some clones with it. I love taking out 2 or 3 scouts at once who are hacking a null. I love finishing an LAV off with it. I love saving a grenade and using it to take out equipment. Here are my 4 MLT fits that I use successfully: Min MLT Light: MLT KinKat Basic Reactive Plate 2x Advanced Prec Enhancers MLT Shotgun STD Flay lock (I just really enjoy this weapon is all) MLT Grenade MLT nanite Injector Min MLT Heavy MLT Kinkat MLT Light Damage Mod STD Combat Rifle STD Flaylock MLT Grenade Cal MLT Heavy MLT Armor rep MLT Heavy Damage mod STD HMG STD Flaylock STD Flux Grenade Cal MLT Medium 3x MLT Armor Plates STD Combat Rifle STD Flaylock MLT Grenade Adv Drop Uplinks I obviously have other fits but since I have been frustrated with the game I literally deleted all of them except for my super fast scout that plants RE's on tanks and throws Proto AV Nades...I.E. My AV fit. I literally just run ambush with those fits now. No more squads, no more nulls, just good ol' fashioned brawls. Besides, taking out some protos in a Min MLT Heavy surely pisses a few people off. My average K/D in ambush is over 1.5 right now since taking in these fits. These are things even you can do. Get rid of the AR. They nerfed it twice since I started playing at 1.6. Yes, twice in that short of a span. Supposedly they have nerfed it over 5 times total. That beings said the Balac doesn't seem to have any nerf on spray and damage right now. If you run that as an officer weapon you might find it to be the best weapon in a game. It's a shame it's so rare to obtain.
licio br Northern Rangers 3	Posted - 2014.04.23 16:11:00 - [13] - Quote Thanks for all the info guys. This is what I have for the core skills: core upgrades 3, electronics 3, engineering 3, precision enhancement 1, profile dampening 2, range amp 2. shield upgrades 3, extension 3, recharging 3, regulation 3. armor upgrades 1, plating 1, armor rep system 1. no biotic upgrades at all. The only dropsuit I specked in was caldari medium (3). I also got caldari assault dropsuits at lvl 5. That's the reason for no armor and all shield skills. Could I get some suggestions, ranked in priority of what skills I should train for next? Keep in mind that, I am not looking for a cookie-cuter fit that doesn't take in account the investment I have done so far. For weapons I got: Sniper op 4, rapid reload 2 and ammo capacity 2. Swarm L op 5, proficiency 4, rapid reload 3 and ammo capacity 3. AR 5, ammo capacity 3, reload 3, sharpshooter 3, proficiency 4 and fitting optimization 3. When I first started I was told to pic something and go deep on the tree and that's what I did. Apparently everything I picked got nerfed. Thanks in advance.
LT Dans Legs Bullet Cluster Lokun Listamenn 398	Posted - 2014.04.23 16:22:00 - [14] - Quote For WP you can try to routinely have a system of beginning matches with a small goal. For instance, try to get to an unhacked turret and hack it. 50 wp. Use it to destroy any other unhacked turrets around. 100 wp per turret destroyed. If you take one and destroy two thats 250 wp just in the first minuet and a half of the match. If its red, hack it. If its yellow, hack it. There's lots of wp to be made outside of killing enemies. Hope this helps a little. To Live Is To Die
Tallen Ellecon 1801	Posted - 2014.04.23 16:23:00 - [15] - Quote LT Dans Legs wrote: For WP you can try to routinely have a system of beginning matches with a small goal. For instance, try to get to an unhacked turret and hack it. 50 wp. Use it to destroy any other unhacked turrets around. 100 wp per turret destroyed. If you take one and destroy two thats 250 wp just in the first minuet and a half of the match. If its red, hack it. If its yellow, hack it. There's lots of wp to be made outside of killing enemies. Hope this helps a little. Where have you been? How can anyone forget a name like that. Supporter of tiericide, EVE interaction, and a proper NPE SoonGäó514 "No blue tags make Tallen go crazy.
licio br Northern Rangers 3	Posted - 2014.04.23 23:41:00 - [16] - Quote so could anyone give me sugestions on what i should be training next? tkx
Zaaeed Massani RisingSuns Dark Taboo 312	Posted - 2014.04.23 23:42:00 - [17] - Quote I run a 3.0+ k/d in BF, 2.0+ in CoD. .90 in DUST. Working as intended. EDIT: I also typically play a support role in DUST, not a slayer. Max out your armor and shields first, followed by your PG/CPU so you can fit better modules. Night and day difference. Minmatar & Gallente A.R.C. Program Instructor / Do you even lift?
IceShifter Childhaspawn DUST University Ivy League 564	Posted - 2014.04.24 00:07:00 - [18] - Quote licio br wrote: so could anyone give me sugestions on what i should be training next? tkx Core skills mate. The only thing they havent nerfed Electronics, engineering, shields and armor. If youre going to logi max your nanite skill. Then run the proto injector -always. After that if you like it, train it. EP 1.8: Revenge of the Scouts Hiding in the redline means: I want to play, just not with *you* +25 = I'm helping
Mossellia Delt Militaires Sans Jeux 1248	Posted - 2014.04.24 00:09:00 - [19] - Quote 2.3 kdr in dust Usually 12 - 18 kdr for other fps I blame the clunky controls in console games. Join the Channel - CPM1 Candidates - Get to know who's running. Delt for CPM1
Medical Crash CLONES AGAINST HUMANITY 306	Posted - 2014.04.24 00:12:00 - [20] - Quote Zaaeed Massani wrote: I run a 3.0+ k/d in BF, 2.0+ in CoD. .90 in DUST. Working as intended. EDIT: I also typically play a support role in DUST, not a slayer. Max out your armor and shields first, followed by your PG/CPU so you can fit better modules. Night and day difference. BF3- Spawn Recon, have Sprint, TUGs, Spawn Beacon, and 870 MCS with Iron Sights+SLUGS+ Extended Mags. PLace Decoy Beacon away from you in an obvious spot. Place TUG's behind some cover, near your desired objective(guard it with your life). Slugs are not meant for running around, they are meant for camping. OHK at crazy ranges once you get used to it. I'd have 2 squads get mad, and use smoke + coming from multiple directions+ jumping all trying to get little ol me. Makes people VERY mad. Got a message from a Japanese player, telling me to "disappear" lolol.

Dimmu Borgir II The New Age Outlaws Proficiency V. 351	Posted - 2014.04.24 00:16:00 - [21] - Quote Charlotte O'Dell wrote: licio br wrote: Hey; I consider myself pretty good at FPS with k/d well above 1.0, however I cant get good at dust. I love the game and the promises for the future but currently I am at bellow 0.5 k/d. Not to mention that I am getting about 200 wps/game and when I compare that with other players the difference is abysmal. I got almost 10m sp mostly in AR, sniping and SL. Just can't figure out I am doing wrong. Any tips appreciated. Thanks. Do you run with squads who like eachother and communicate, effectively? AWESOME CORP NAME!!!! THEEEE BEZZZZT! Blue is good, red is bad, orange you glad you're not red?
Zaaeed Massani RisingSuns Dark Taboo 318	Posted - 2014.04.24 00:17:00 - [22] - Quote Medical Crash wrote: Zaaeed Massani wrote: I run a 3.0+ k/d in BF, 2.0+ in CoD. .90 in DUST. Working as intended. EDIT: I also typically play a support role in DUST, not a slayer. Max out your armor and shields first, followed by your PG/CPU so you can fit better modules. Night and day difference. BF3- Spawn Recon, have Sprint, TUGs, Spawn Beacon, and 870 MCS with Iron Sights+SLUGS+ Extended Mags. PLace Decoy Beacon away from you in an obvious spot. Place TUG's behind some cover, near your desired objective(guard it with your life). Slugs are not meant for running around, they are meant for camping. OHK at crazy ranges once you get used to it. I'd have 2 squads get mad, and use smoke + coming from multiple directions+ jumping all trying to get little ol me. Makes people VERY mad. Got a message from a Japanese player, telling me to "disappear" lolol. My favorite infantry loadout is Assault with the Mk3A1 shotgun, sprint, M320 GL. I can flank and take out 6-8 people before they know what hit them if they're close enough together. Minmatar & Gallente A.R.C. Program Instructor / Do you even lift?
THUNDERGROOVE Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad. 710	Posted - 2014.04.24 01:17:00 - [23] - Quote Eko Sol wrote: That beings said the Balac doesn't seem to have any nerf on spray and damage right now. If you run that as an officer weapon you might find it to be the best weapon in a game. It's a shame it's so rare to obtain. I wouldn't spew BS to noobs. The Balac's GAR-21 is horrible right now. The Six Kin Assault combat rifle is much better in every regard apart from ammo efficiency and you can purchase it with ISK. Running at 10.6 m/s ak.0 Projects: TDBS \| SDETool ScrubzBScrubz
SPACE SYPHILIS Condotta Rouvenor Gallente Federation 143	Posted - 2014.04.24 01:54:00 - [24] - Quote licio br wrote: Hey; I consider myself pretty good at FPS with k/d well above 1.0, however I cant get good at dust. I love the game and the promises for the future but currently I am at bellow 0.5 k/d. Not to mention that I am getting about 200 wps/game and when I compare that with other players the difference is abysmal. I got almost 10m sp mostly in AR, sniping and SL. Just can't figure out I am doing wrong. Any tips appreciated. Thanks. This has to be a troll. Who the F*** puts all there WP into some of the worse weapons of the game. Ok here is your answer, stop everything your doing and put all future SP into your core skills. Once max to 5, then you need to know what roll you want to start with. Remember you dont win until you collect them all.
noobsniper the 2nd Inner.Hell 421	Posted - 2014.04.24 02:33:00 - [25] - Quote licio br wrote: Hey; I consider myself pretty good at FPS with k/d well above 1.0, however I cant get good at dust. I love the game and the promises for the future but currently I am at bellow 0.5 k/d. Not to mention that I am getting about 200 wps/game and when I compare that with other players the difference is abysmal. I got almost 10m sp mostly in AR, sniping and SL. Just can't figure out I am doing wrong. Any tips appreciated. Thanks. First of all I recommend always playing in a squad but yeah core upgrades you can do good in almost any suit (even matar suits gasp) but yeah I have around 27 million sp and only started doing good once I got mine maxed it takes alot but its more then worth it. What I used to do is run in matar suits to gimp myself it really forces you to figure out what a good and bad idea is xD "things are made of stuff"-Bill Nye MAG vet raven ftw Pre 1.8 scout don't throw me in with that rift raft


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