DUST Search - Add in a Negotiation Skill

Jadd Hatchen wrote:

What closes the "gap" between new players and vets will never be able to be fixed by any in game mechanic. This is just a fact of how EVE and now DUST works. Just as in real life when a new fighter pilot is trained up, they start out as the "new guy" and have a lot of catching up to do to become a "vet."

How is that accomplished in the real world? By mentoring, training, and teaming up with those that ARE vets. The same is true for EVE and the same is true for this game! So stop trying to say that the game is at fault when in actuality it is the exclusionary attitude of the "lete" players combined with the apathy of the rest that is causing the problem. You want to close the "noob-gap" then you do it yourself and take that noob under your wing and tutor him on the right way to do things. Don't just ignore the dumb blue-berry and curse him/her out. Take the time to show them how to be a better player and everyone will benefit.

In the end, this is a MULTI-player game. Trying to go solo (while possible) is self defeating and asking for a whole other magnitude of difficulty. The best advise you can give any new player is to join a corp and learn from the vets.

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Jadd Hatchen The Phoenix Federation 547	Posted - 2014.04.22 15:39:00 - [1] - Quote Hey so in EVE when a player takes on a mission/contract from an NPC, they can get varying amounts of ISK for its completion and even bonuses depending on several factors. One of those factors is a NEGOTIATION skill. this skill assumes that the amount for the contract was negotiated at some point and the higher the skill the more ISK you get paid out. Why not add in some of those same Social Category Skills to DUST? That way we can put points into Negotiations and receive a percentage increase in our payouts in matches where the NPCs are paying us ISK as a reward. It wouldn't affect FW or PC matches, but would be for public ones only. Or if that is not in line with what you want to to, then the other option is to do what you've already done in FW. In FW you can buy FW boosters for AUR. These boosters effectively earn you bonus LPs for doing FW matches. Those LPs translate to equipment etc that (one day) could be sold for ISK on a market. So since we can already (indirectly) buy ISK with AUR via this method, why not allow for a booster that boosts the ISK payouts for public matches? Basically it would work just like the FW boosters do, only instead of a percentage bonus to LPs you get a percentage bonus to ISK payouts from public matches. Either method (or both) would be ok by me.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 2090	Posted - 2014.04.22 15:43:00 - [2] - Quote A social category could definitely be nice. The biggest concern I see though, is again, it being a pretty decisive widening of the gap between newbie and veteran players, as those with Negotiation 5 get more ISK in pubs and such. And I'm not sure what other skills you'd introduce besides the one for that category at this time. The EVE version has skills for different types of PvE and such, which isn't available to us yet. I have a feeling as well that given DUST's placement as a free-to-play game, CCP would be more likely to do an ISK booster bought for Aurum. I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
Jadd Hatchen The Phoenix Federation 547	Posted - 2014.04.22 16:16:00 - [3] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: A social category could definitely be nice. The biggest concern I see though, is again, it being a pretty decisive widening of the gap between newbie and veteran players, as those with Negotiation 5 get more ISK in pubs and such. And I'm not sure what other skills you'd introduce besides the one for that category at this time. The EVE version has skills for different types of PvE and such, which isn't available to us yet. I have a feeling as well that given DUST's placement as a free-to-play game, CCP would be more likely to do an ISK booster bought for Aurum. Okay so let's see then... Here is a list of all the Social Skills from EVE: Social - Skill at social interaction. 5% bonus per level to NPC agent, corporation and faction standing increase. Connections - Skill at interacting with friendly NPCs. 4% Modifier to effective standing from friendly NPC... Criminal Connections - Skill at interacting with friendly criminal NPCs. 4% Modifier per level to effective standing... Diplomacy - Skill at interacting with hostile Agents in order to de-escalate tense situations as demonstrated... Distribution Connections - Understanding of the way trade is conducted at the corporate level. Improves loyalty point... Fast Talking - Skill at interacting with Concord. 5% Bonus to effective security rating increase. Mining Connections - Understanding of corporate culture on the industrial level and the plight of the worker. Improves... Negotiation - Skill at agent negotiation. 5% additional pay per skill level for agent missions. Security Connections - Understanding of military culture. Improves loyalty point gain by 10% per level when working... So lets try to translate some of those over... Social - Would be the per-requisite for all the rest... Amar Connections - Provides a 4% modifier per level to faction standing increase... Caldari Connections - Provides a 4% modifier per level to faction standing increase... Galente Connections - Provides a 4% modifier per level to faction standing increase... Minmatar Connections - Provides a 4% modifier per level to faction standing increase... Criminal Connections - Provides 4% modifier to ISK earned from doing matches for pirate factions (like Guristas, Angels, etc.) Diplomacy - reduces penalties incurred by friendly fire... Fast Talking - reduces time shutout of FW due to friendly fire... Negotiation - 5% additional pay per skill level... And that's just stuff I came up with just now off the top of my head. It would all have to be worked out more precisely, but you get the point. There is room for it in this game. As for your "widening the gap" arguement.... So what? EVE doesn't pander to "the gap" and neither should DUST. However I do believe that there should be a MUCH longer academy training period for the new players and that "gimped" modes of public matches should be added. In EVE there are ship restrictions on some combat sites so that larger ships cannot enter.... I could see the same for DUST where only basic gear is allowed in some matches in a tiered sort of way.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 2090	Posted - 2014.04.22 16:29:00 - [4] - Quote Okay, I can see some of that. Rather than Faction boosters and Faction skills overlapping, the boosters would generate more LP, and the skills would generate more standing increase. That could work. I'd hate the Social skill to be yet another skill with no passive bonus of it's own. Reduction to friendly fire penalties would be nice. The gap in EVE isn't as large of a deal because EVE's skill system isn't currently ensuring the leading party will always be the one with the most skill points. One of the largest reasons for that is asymmetrical warfare, which we do not have in DUST. I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
Hecarim Van Hohen Bullet Cluster Lokun Listamenn 1132	Posted - 2014.04.22 16:37:00 - [5] - Quote I'd change Criminal Connections to 2% per level Negotiations to 2% per level and only affect corporations (no pirates) Social having no bonus of it's own would be another SP sink so why not have it boost your standing gain by 1% per level or something similar? "Now I am become Dev, the locker of threads." -CCP Logibro t¢«
Jadd Hatchen The Phoenix Federation 548	Posted - 2014.04.22 19:42:00 - [6] - Quote Hecarim Van Hohen wrote: I'd change Criminal Connections to 2% per level Negotiations to 2% per level and only affect corporations (no pirates) Social having no bonus of it's own would be another SP sink so why not have it boost your standing gain by 1% per level or something similar? Again specific values can get tweaked... but it was the idea that counted.
Hecarim Van Hohen Bullet Cluster Lokun Listamenn 1133	Posted - 2014.04.22 20:10:00 - [7] - Quote I do like the idea of social skills so you get +1 "Now I am become Dev, the locker of threads." -CCP Logibro t¢«
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 2094	Posted - 2014.04.22 20:47:00 - [8] - Quote As I said, I see some potential issues, but overall, I would like to see more non-combat skills enter the game, and social skills would be a good category to look into. I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
Killar-12 OLDSPICE. Top Men. 2693	Posted - 2014.04.22 21:04:00 - [9] - Quote +1 Great Idea... How to Leave PC
Dauth Jenkins Ultramarine Corp 496	Posted - 2014.04.23 02:27:00 - [10] - Quote A negotiation skill would be nice, but as you said, it would help vets more than noobs, further increasing the amount of risk vets have, further increasing the "protostomp" because they can lose more suits and still make a profit. Maybe this concept could be for PvE contracts, instead. -Sincerely --The Dual Swarm Commando

Jadd Hatchen The Phoenix Federation 550	Posted - 2014.04.23 13:08:00 - [11] - Quote Dauth Jenkins wrote: A negotiation skill would be nice, but as you said, it would help vets more than noobs, further increasing the amount of risk vets have, further increasing the "protostomp" because they can lose more suits and still make a profit. Maybe this concept could be for PvE contracts, instead. What closes the "gap" between new players and vets will never be able to be fixed by any in game mechanic. This is just a fact of how EVE and now DUST works. Just as in real life when a new fighter pilot is trained up, they start out as the "new guy" and have a lot of catching up to do to become a "vet." How is that accomplished in the real world? By mentoring, training, and teaming up with those that ARE vets. The same is true for EVE and the same is true for this game! So stop trying to say that the game is at fault when in actuality it is the exclusionary attitude of the "lete" players combined with the apathy of the rest that is causing the problem. You want to close the "noob-gap" then you do it yourself and take that noob under your wing and tutor him on the right way to do things. Don't just ignore the dumb blue-berry and curse him/her out. Take the time to show them how to be a better player and everyone will benefit. In the end, this is a MULTI-player game. Trying to go solo (while possible) is self defeating and asking for a whole other magnitude of difficulty. The best advise you can give any new player is to join a corp and learn from the vets.
Finn Colman Immortal Guides 8	Posted - 2014.04.23 13:42:00 - [12] - Quote Jadd Hatchen wrote: What closes the "gap" between new players and vets will never be able to be fixed by any in game mechanic. This is just a fact of how EVE and now DUST works. Just as in real life when a new fighter pilot is trained up, they start out as the "new guy" and have a lot of catching up to do to become a "vet." How is that accomplished in the real world? By mentoring, training, and teaming up with those that ARE vets. The same is true for EVE and the same is true for this game! So stop trying to say that the game is at fault when in actuality it is the exclusionary attitude of the "lete" players combined with the apathy of the rest that is causing the problem. You want to close the "noob-gap" then you do it yourself and take that noob under your wing and tutor him on the right way to do things. Don't just ignore the dumb blue-berry and curse him/her out. Take the time to show them how to be a better player and everyone will benefit. In the end, this is a MULTI-player game. Trying to go solo (while possible) is self defeating and asking for a whole other magnitude of difficulty. The best advise you can give any new player is to join a corp and learn from the vets. Exactly. I played since open beta, and I didn't get much better than your average newberry until I started getting a bit more into the community. Once I read up on Learning Coalition guides, and started squading up, I started getting notably better. It didn't take me long to get better either. Now, I'm far from being a pro at the game, but I'm way better than I used to be when I was an anti-social, lone wolf who never even checked the forums.
Kristoff Atruin Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2114	Posted - 2014.04.23 13:51:00 - [13] - Quote An idea like this would be a perfect fit with a PVE system. What I would like to see, once we have the ability to move around New Eden, is to be able to accept PVE missions from the various NPC corporations with some kind of standings system involved. The more a corporation likes you, the more profitable and challenging the missions become. Social skills would then be able to work very similarly as in Eve. I don't really see this as something that actually widens the new player / veteran gap. Most of what people perceive as the gap is players who hoarded massive piles of isk from PC or the refund of beta salvage. Pub matches are just as bad a source of income for vets as for new players. Often the only thing that makes them profitable is using blueprints. I think a better criticism is that if it applies to all isk making matches then everyone will train it up. If everyone is compelled to train it up, then it's like the old learning skills in Eve...a pointless speed bump. For it to be interesting it needs to be focused more closely on a specific activity that not everyone will necessarily participate in, making it specialized playstyle. Diplomacy as a reduction to friendly fire penalty sounds like something that just enables bad behavior. It's already pretty easy to avoid FF penalties. In regards to criminal connections I would love to see this become part of an addition of pirate factions to FW. We know from game lore that pirate factions control whole planets in lowsec. No reason they wouldn't hire mercs.
Master Smurf Nos Nothi 364	Posted - 2014.04.23 15:58:00 - [14] - Quote I would only go with it if there was some risk involved. You should have to state how much WP or Kills you can "guarantee" You meet your quota you get the bonus ISK, you dont, you get significantly less than normal. "Shine bright like a diamond"
Finn Colman Immortal Guides 9	Posted - 2014.04.23 16:00:00 - [15] - Quote Master Smurf wrote: I would only go with it if there was some risk involved. You should have to state how much WP or Kills you can "guarantee" You meet your quota you get the bonus ISK, you dont, you get significantly less than normal. That sounds cool.


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