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Awry Barux
Ametat Security
Amarr Empire
2038
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Posted - 2014.04.21 22:31:00 -
[1] - Quote
Quil Evrything wrote:
For a new heavy weapon, I want an all-range (well, 0-100m) anti-infantry weapon.
Something that justifies my Sentinel, NOT carrying a CR or ARR, because (new heavy weapon) is better in all situations.
Is that SO DIFFICULT, CCP, to imagine that a heavy weapon should be able to out-damage a "light" weapon of the same type?!?!
There's "HMG" vs "SMG". So just give us the HRR or HCR already?!?!?!?!
What would make this weapon not the only viable infantry weapon on the field once it's out?
Nerdier than thou
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Awry Barux
Ametat Security
Amarr Empire
2040
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Posted - 2014.04.22 01:21:00 -
[2] - Quote
Quil Evrything wrote:Awry Barux wrote:Quil Evrything wrote:
For a new heavy weapon, I want an all-range (well, 0-100m) anti-infantry weapon.
Something that justifies my Sentinel, NOT carrying a CR or ARR, because (new heavy weapon) is better in all situations.
Is that SO DIFFICULT, CCP, to imagine that a heavy weapon should be able to out-damage a "light" weapon of the same type?!?!
There's "HMG" vs "SMG". So just give us the HRR or HCR already?!?!?!?!
What would make this weapon not the only viable infantry weapon on the field once it's out? Edit: This is exactly the kind of heavy weapon that should never exist, for what I would think would be obvious balance reasons. what you're basically saying is, "Heavies should only get to use light weapons, same as anyone else, because anything more powerful would make other suits feel impotent". Awww, poor baby. The whole point of a "Heavy weapon", vs a "Light weapon", is that Heavy weapons should DO MORE DAMAGE. S'why they're 'heavy' an all..
-_-;
I thought you were a pre 1.8 scout, I expected better from you.
No, they should get to use heavy weapons, and those heavy weapons should be more powerful than light weapons, but there should never be a heavy weapon that does amazing damage at every range. You didn't respond to my question at all: what possible balancing factor could there be for, say, a heavy combat rifle with a 0-100m range? It wins in CQC, it wins at long range, it's on the suit with the most EHP in the game. Where is the drawback? What is the counter?
Everything in the game has to have a counter, that's how role-based combat works. You beat scouts with scanning or enough EHP to react to their sneak attack, you beat a medium rush with heavies, you beat heavies with range, positioning, and sneakiness. Rock, paper, scissors. No one suit or one weapon should be the best combat suit/weapon in every possible situation. That's how balance works.
If there's going to be a long-range anti-infantry heavy weapon, which I would agree there should be, it needs a major drawback- extreme hipfire spread or a very long spool-up time, so that the heavy is punished at close range in exchange for the long-range capabilities.
Nerdier than thou
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Awry Barux
Ametat Security
Amarr Empire
2040
|
Posted - 2014.04.22 01:42:00 -
[3] - Quote
Nelo Angel0 wrote:Awry Barux wrote:Quil Evrything wrote:Awry Barux wrote:Quil Evrything wrote:
For a new heavy weapon, I want an all-range (well, 0-100m) anti-infantry weapon.
Something that justifies my Sentinel, NOT carrying a CR or ARR, because (new heavy weapon) is better in all situations.
Is that SO DIFFICULT, CCP, to imagine that a heavy weapon should be able to out-damage a "light" weapon of the same type?!?!
There's "HMG" vs "SMG". So just give us the HRR or HCR already?!?!?!?!
What would make this weapon not the only viable infantry weapon on the field once it's out? Edit: This is exactly the kind of heavy weapon that should never exist, for what I would think would be obvious balance reasons. what you're basically saying is, "Heavies should only get to use light weapons, same as anyone else, because anything more powerful would make other suits feel impotent". Awww, poor baby. The whole point of a "Heavy weapon", vs a "Light weapon", is that Heavy weapons should DO MORE DAMAGE. S'why they're 'heavy' an all.. -_-; I thought you were a pre 1.8 scout, I expected better from you. No, they should get to use heavy weapons, and those heavy weapons should be more powerful than light weapons, but there should never be a heavy weapon that does amazing damage at every range. You didn't respond to my question at all: what possible balancing factor could there be for, say, a heavy assault combat rifle with a 0-100m range? It wins in CQC, it wins at long range, it's on the suit with the most EHP in the game. Where is the drawback? What is the counter? Everything in the game has to have a counter, that's how role-based combat works. You beat scouts with scanning or enough EHP to react to their sneak attack, you beat a medium rush with heavies, you beat heavies with range, positioning, and sneakiness. Rock, paper, scissors. No one suit or one weapon should be the best combat suit/weapon in every possible situation. That's how balance works. If there's going to be a long-range anti-infantry heavy weapon, which I would agree there should be, it needs a major drawback- extreme hipfire spread or a very long spool-up time, so that the heavy is punished at close range in exchange for the long-range capabilities. just wanted to respond to this one part, It already exists it's called the minmitard HMG. As you can see it's not effective at 100m 
 I know, and that's the only thing that keeps it from being the only viable weapon in the entire game. There's a reason CCP made that decision. Quil here is suggesting that there should be a weapon with HMG-level DPS that's effective from 0-100m.
Nerdier than thou
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Awry Barux
Ametat Security
Amarr Empire
2049
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Posted - 2014.04.22 18:45:00 -
[4] - Quote
Quil Evrything wrote:Awry Barux wrote:Quil here is suggesting that there should be a weapon with HMG-level DPS that's effective from 0-100m. To be more specific, I'm suggesting there needs to be Heavy varients of the standard rifles. And I dont think there should be any specific drawback to the weapon. They're running a HEAVY suit. Thats drawback enough. A lone heavy can easily be flanked by a scout and taken out with a charged knifeswipe.
It's really not drawback enough. A well-tanked heavy can certainly survive a maxed-out Minja IshNoK hit, and if the heavy is something other than a total idiot, they won't let a scout get into melee range. Furthermore, where does this leave assaults and commandos? The sentinel suit's drawbacks are low speed and no ewar. Low speed doesn't matter if your enemy can't gain any advantage by controlling range. No ewar doesn't matter if you have eyes, have enough EHP to survive sneak attacks with time to react, or are in a blob.
I guarantee that if CCP introduces heavy rifles, we will see nothing other than heavy rifles and maybe an uplink logi in 99% of matches. HMG heavies are already the unquestioned kings of CQC and the <30m range, which is enough to heavily favor a team with more heavies in city maps or generally maps where most of the fighting happens within that range. Giving heavies best-in-game damage projection out to 100m while still having higher DPS than any light weapon and being usable in CQC will just be obviously broken. They're going to rule all gunfights, full stop. Heavy rifle spam is going to be the only viable tactic. Why would you ever use a different suit for killing, which is 99.9% of Dust? Just... obviously broken. I can't believe you're actually advancing this opinion. Heavy weapons absolutely must have a niche to balance out their power.
Nerdier than thou
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