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Security Space is the update you should be looking for

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Bubba Brown Militaires Sans Jeux 233	Posted - 2014.04.17 05:23:00 - [1] - Quote i realized a long time ago, but apparently most others have not, is that the main shortcoming of dust is the lack of security space or voluntary segregation of the playerbase. even though dust is not eve, it is evelike, so i can make tenuous comparisons and feel like i can get away with it, and nobody can stop me. in the current game, vets play with newbies without much restriction. the matchmaker doesnt really seem to do very much. this makes for an awful experience for everyone. newbies get stomped constantly and have very little room to grow. mid-rangers are the newbies who were masochistic enough to stick around, but it's still pretty awful for them, a horrible grind with few even matches or experiences vets just stomp in full proto suits or boost matches between themselves with the occasionally jolly bout with other vets. a few of them were newbies who scraped their way to relevance. most are just from early in the release and didnt abandon ship as the game stagnated. so, security space is the fix, but how? here's a pretty poorly thought out basic guideline all public matches are segregated into high, low, and null sec matches. you pick what kind of security space you want to join matches for, and it starts searching. depending on what type of match you're in, the fits you can use are restricted. there would be some kind criteria to keep fits within a certain boundry based on the type of match. perhaps for high sec space matches, you can only use fits with two or fewer advanced modules/suits/weapons. another possibility is an item level system which would allow for a militia suit with NOTHING on it but a proto assault rifle. ultimate glass cannon. Low sec would allow a little proto, and null sec would have no restrictions of any kind. Choose a restricted fit and it'll just say some crap about "insufficient distributed network support for modules" or something, Cloud server jargon. there are no total allocated SP restrictions this is important. newbies can play with vets in null if they want, and vets can play with newbies in high sec but they MUST use lower level fits. it allows plenty of mobility without gear stomping. there are no squad or team restrictions also important, although it might be worthwhile to make highsec "random only", nobody can group in highsec, this can serve as the first "push" towards the much more open low sec PC battles only happen in low and nullsec another push to get people out of the highsec kiddie pool. want to control stuff? you gotta risk it. Factional warfare would occur in highsec, but have fit restrictions similar to lowsec having FW occur entirely in the highsec kiddie pool? meh, it needs some spice, but again you dont want proto stomps everywhere. ISK and SP rewards scale up quickly outside of highsec this is the most important bit, and its identical to the security space philosophy in eve. want to win it all? you have to risk it all. this will IMMEDIATELY get the proto corps out into nullsec matches since that will be their major source of income, and they'll fight amongst eachother out there will this prevent pumpstomping outside highsec? no, group up to your heart's content is this a perfect solution? probably not, but nothing is. this will certainly solve a lot of new player experience issues and keep the playerbase spread out instead of stuck in the same tiny box does this make sense in-universe with regards to EVE to DUST interraction? eeeeeehh? CCP has justified much worse *god damnit this was supposed to be a short post*
Bubba Brown Militaires Sans Jeux 234	Posted - 2014.04.17 20:34:00 - [2] - Quote by the way the fit restriction would be functionally similar to an empty or unskilled fit, as in its red when choosing your fit from the spawn screen there would also need to be some prompt that alerts you if your favorite fit is not eligible, and asks for an alternative fit to use i think this would be hella fun and allow for high sec to be a quick match type thing with very even footing, lowsec to be much more open with lots of unique fits and playstyles, and null to be the real end-game big leagues that deal with proper meta
Lynn Beck Wake N' Bake Inc Top Men. 1194	Posted - 2014.04.17 20:41:00 - [3] - Quote I like it. What of Gallente Sentinel G-1'a who can field full prototype? How far back does this limit go: gear(dropsuit) tier, module tier, or cost? I would like if our fittings were automatically sorted into folders- Standard/Militia, Advanced, Prototype Limited edition suits have their own tiers(Black Eagle is Adv and such) so they would be included. Say, in highsec you aren't allowed to wear Adv and up.(proto weapons are fine, as you're sacrificing tank for gank) payouts are lower as well, like 75k - 100 k and you are paid more for your time in match(like the current model) Lowsec is Adv, payout is lessened from time in game(less Isk/time, more Wp/isk) Null is no holds, payouts are entirely from Wp/isk destroyed, or corps paying you. General John Ripper is my 2nd best friend!
Orin the Freak The Solecism of Limitation 785	Posted - 2014.04.17 20:41:00 - [4] - Quote We've been barking up this tree for over a year now. I don't think CCP ever said anything on the topic. Truthfully, at the rate we've been seeing new content for this game since beta, I don't think DUST will even make it to null sec before SONY stops supporting the PS3. Let alone affect sov, which is what a vast majority of people were mostly interested in. But since CCP has dragged their feet on that front, that vast majority of players have already moved on. the EVE guys were hyper interested in this game when the thought of Dust mercs affecting sov was a possibility, but since a year has gone by with little to no mention of this feature... Dust has seemingly become a lone entity that has extremely little, to almost no impact on the majority of EVE's player base... which... could very well be working as intended?
Alabastor 'TheBlaster' Alcar Silver Bullet Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY 480	Posted - 2014.04.17 20:51:00 - [5] - Quote this is an awesome idea and gearis already tierd so itwouldnt be hard to implment alowing for the limited usage of certian higher leveled gear and modules especially since there are what 5 levels of high 5 levels of low sec and 10 levels of null?
Alabastor 'TheBlaster' Alcar Silver Bullet Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY 480	Posted - 2014.04.17 20:54:00 - [6] - Quote oh, also under this system it would segregate null sec by total sp accumulated
Alabastor 'TheBlaster' Alcar Silver Bullet Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY 480	Posted - 2014.04.17 21:10:00 - [7] - Quote Edit: damn vita double post crap
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 2666	Posted - 2014.04.17 21:29:00 - [8] - Quote Yeah, uh, you are not even close to the first person who's asked this question or made this proposal. CCP doesn't appear to listen. "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Forum Warrior lv.2 Amarr victor!
Fire of Prometheus Alpha Response Command 4269	Posted - 2014.04.17 21:31:00 - [9] - Quote They could restrict it by meta level total of the suit.... Alpha Response Command (ALREC) The premier training corp for commandos. Apply today!
The Attorney General 2600	Posted - 2014.04.17 21:40:00 - [10] - Quote Given how few people play this game, if you try and carve the playerbase up, everyone will have 20 minute waits for matches, and we still won't get fair even spreads. If you are a poor player, no amount of protection from CCP is going to stop you getting farmed, all it will do is make everyone suffer so that you get your backside kicked slightly less. You want to get the high SP/high meta players out of pubs? Give them something worth playing for in their gear. Create a type of match with high rewards, full FF on, and better salvage odds. That way, when a noob or scrub joins, we can TK them until they leave, keeping the upper echelon of games just for those of us how belong there. CCP can't stop you from getting stomped. As we say with the longer academy, the long term pubbers have no problem being completely pathetic and joinging up on an alt just to farm some noobs. That is there lifeblood, and CCP depends on those baddies for much money. There are a lot of people who need that SP to stay alive, and they will not give it up lightly, especially since it would make plain how bad they are. Mr. Hybrid Vayu.

Atiim Heaven's Lost Property Dirt Nap Squad. 6833	Posted - 2014.04.17 21:49:00 - [11] - Quote Lynn Beck wrote: I like it. What of Gallente Sentinel G-1'a who can field full prototype? How far back does this limit go: gear(dropsuit) tier, module tier, or cost? We could make the Meta Level come into play here. Every item has a Meta Level, and the Meta Level is dependant on the item's tier. We could make the Meta Level add up to a total, such as 50. If the Meta Level of all the combined items exceeds 50, the fitting is invalid. There. Creates an way for the 'matchmaker' to distinguish between an innocent fitting and a stomp suit, and it gives Meta Level a purpose in the game. Heaven's Lost Swarmer [s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND
Bubba Brown Militaires Sans Jeux 236	Posted - 2014.04.18 02:38:00 - [12] - Quote The Attorney General wrote: If you are a poor player, no amount of protection from CCP is going to stop you getting farmed, all it will do is make everyone suffer so that you get your backside kicked slightly less. you have quite literally described the justification someone would have if EVE was not segmented by security space, and everywhere was null i'll let you noodle on how badly that would work out in eve. actually you dont need to noodle at all, it's playing out in dust right now in realtime
Bubba Brown Militaires Sans Jeux 236	Posted - 2014.04.18 02:40:00 - [13] - Quote Atiim wrote: Lynn Beck wrote: I like it. What of Gallente Sentinel G-1'a who can field full prototype? How far back does this limit go: gear(dropsuit) tier, module tier, or cost? We could make the Meta Level come into play here. Every item has a Meta Level, and the Meta Level is dependant on the item's tier. We could make the Meta Level add up to a total, such as 50. If the Meta Level of all the combined items exceeds 50, the fitting is invalid. There. Creates an way for the 'matchmaker' to distinguish between an innocent fitting and a stomp suit, and it gives Meta Level a purpose in the game. meta level is a good approach, although it'd make meta level balancing rather important on CCPs end. definitely dont want to significantly buff some item but keep its meta level the same, that'll throw a wrench in the works the size of nantucket
Alabastor 'TheBlaster' Alcar Silver Bullet Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY 483	Posted - 2014.04.18 22:54:00 - [14] - Quote this is a good idea what does ccp think
Jastad D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 716	Posted - 2014.04.18 23:03:00 - [15] - Quote The Attorney General wrote: CUT. I know you are a nice guy and one of the few who hate the blue don. But's what we are seeing in pc is a proof that what you are saying is not true. Most of the people in this game don't want challenge, they want to feel good farming defenseless noobs. Thats why we need a fitting lock matchmaking. Cal.Heavy-Min.Heavy-Amarr.Heavy Believe in the FORGE, young padawans SoloDoloreSuCharlie
Bubba Brown Militaires Sans Jeux 238	Posted - 2014.04.19 08:59:00 - [16] - Quote also, of course, is the possibility of simply not having fit restrictions but simply making null matches have much higher bonuses and payout so obviously the proto fellows will fly out there and blap blap eachother for big cash money, leaving the new players alone ....at least, hopefully
The Robot Devil Brave Bunnies Brave Collective 2470	Posted - 2014.04.19 09:27:00 - [17] - Quote Bubba Brown wrote: by the way the fit restriction would be functionally similar to an empty or unskilled fit, as in its red when choosing your fit from the spawn screen there would also need to be some prompt that alerts you if your favorite fit is not eligible, and asks for an alternative fit to use i think this would be hella fun and allow for high sec to be a quick match type thing with very even footing, lowsec to be much more open with lots of unique fits and playstyles, and null to be the real end-game big leagues that deal with proper meta https://twitter.com/TTCofNE/status/441046744705417217/photo/1 https://twitter.com/TTCofNE/status/441045707227557889/photo/1 "One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production." Raoul Duke
KatanaPT Tech Guard RISE of LEGION 699	Posted - 2014.04.19 09:47:00 - [18] - Quote https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=143419&p=2 Tech Guard Recruiting Video
wripple TeamPlayers Dirt Nap Squad. 156	Posted - 2014.04.19 09:51:00 - [19] - Quote OVER HERE CCP, YOU SHOULD PROBABLY READ THIS
wripple TeamPlayers Dirt Nap Squad. 156	Posted - 2014.04.19 09:54:00 - [20] - Quote The development team recently just acquired quite a new faces after WoD got canned, why not just have them dedicate towards remodeling and rebalancing stuff like this while the current Dust team does what they do best, introduce new content before balancing the old.

The Attorney General 2642	Posted - 2014.04.19 13:17:00 - [21] - Quote Bubba Brown wrote: The Attorney General wrote: If you are a poor player, no amount of protection from CCP is going to stop you getting farmed, all it will do is make everyone suffer so that you get your backside kicked slightly less. you have quite literally described the justification someone would have if EVE was not segmented by security space, and everywhere was null i'll let you noodle on how badly that would work out in eve. actually you dont need to noodle at all, it's playing out in dust right now in realtime You can farm noobs all day in High sec if you want to gank them. There is nothing stopping you, aside from knowing that CONCORD will blap you. Get a cheap Thrasher, sit on any gate coming out of Amarr or Jita and just wait for fools running the autopilot. Enjoy the kill mails. Do you even Eve bro? Mr. Hybrid Vayu.
Spectre-M The Generals General Tso's Alliance 417	Posted - 2014.04.19 20:19:00 - [22] - Quote @Gen. This isn't EVE, bro. And like you said, there is CONCORD. Using a trash ship farming gates is different than wearing proto farming CRUs. I also suggested security space models via gear tier. I got the same answers from people who obviously want to protect their ability to stomp new players with no risk. Public = STD FW = ADV PC = PRO Give us 3 fitting folders for organizing our fits. The NPE in this game is the only thing preventing it from growing. The number of players that pass through this game is ridiculous and it's a shame we can barely keep any. Smarten up, CCP. Amarr Factional Warfare Loyalist Minnmatar in Amarr Armor I am a Wolf in Sheeps Clothing
Medical Crash CLONES AGAINST HUMANITY 279	Posted - 2014.04.19 21:27:00 - [23] - Quote My corp always opens up our squads to public. I myself use my Logi suits over my easy mode Gallente Scout. You'd be amazed at what your squad can do when their radar is like lights on a Christmas tree. I prefer helping my team over the solo style. Don't mind me, I'm just a Gal Logi inspecting some crates. Pardon my Dampning achooo As a side note, I hate when people find me. Let me and my scanners scan in peace damn it. I agree with making matchmaking better for the lower SP members. The SP divide is unforgiving to the newer players.
Vell0cet Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad. 1422	Posted - 2014.04.19 21:31:00 - [24] - Quote This is a bad idea. We need an optional 2nd tier academy mode for players under 5mill SP. That will give new players an easier environment to get their skills up to the point where they can field a decently competitive fit. As The Attorney General points out, this will fracture the playerbase into tiny pools, and you'll be waiting for 20 minutes to get in a match. The best players will still stomp in STD gear with organized squads and tactics. SP is the better metric to keep new players sheltered for a while. Best PvE idea ever!
Nirwanda Vaughns 426th Infantry 579	Posted - 2014.04.19 21:35:00 - [25] - Quote I mentioned somehting pretty much same few days ago as a way to fix proto stomping where peopel can select the sec status of where battles take place (just liek autopilot in EVE) and have 1.0-0.5 MLT/STD Infantry only 0.4-0.1 ADV LAVs allowed 0.0 is anything goes, 4 vehicles a side as is now. that way at least folk can take a break from proto stomps if needed but just as in EVE reduce/boost income depending on sec status Rolling with the punches
Quil Evrything Triple Terrors 1268	Posted - 2014.04.19 21:43:00 - [26] - Quote The Attorney General wrote: Given how few people play this game, if you try and carve the playerbase up, everyone will have 20 minute waits for matches, and we still won't get fair even spreads. boloney. Only people looking to pubstomp will have to queue up for idiots to be slaughtered. Most everyone else will be in the "no proto" groupings, so the majority will have very similar wait times. and/or matches could have fewer than 32 people, like in Oceania server. Which, btw, I prefer.
Godin Thekiller OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2028	Posted - 2014.04.19 21:52:00 - [27] - Quote I don't think you get what security levels are and how they work..... click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
Bubba Brown Militaires Sans Jeux 245	Posted - 2014.04.20 00:55:00 - [28] - Quote wripple wrote: The development team recently just acquired quite a lot of new faces after WoD got canned, why not just have them dedicate towards remodeling and rebalancing stuff like this while the current Dust team does what they do best, introduce new content before balancing the old. the best part is, this kind of system isnt particularly complex in terms of code, it's mostly changes to the way the matchmaking system works, and thats almost entirely server side. the only client side stuff would be adding some options to the matchmaking screen, and a few tutorials talking about security space
Bubba Brown Militaires Sans Jeux 245	Posted - 2014.04.20 00:57:00 - [29] - Quote The Attorney General wrote: There is nothing stopping you, aside from knowing that CONCORD will blap you. that IS what is stopping you. it severely limits what you want to risk and fundamentally changes how you would otherwise approach the situation in null (just kill em) however, you cant exactly have NPC turrets that shoot you in dust for shooting other players....
Bubba Brown Militaires Sans Jeux 245	Posted - 2014.04.20 01:00:00 - [30] - Quote Quil Evrything wrote: The Attorney General wrote: Given how few people play this game, if you try and carve the playerbase up, everyone will have 20 minute waits for matches, and we still won't get fair even spreads. boloney. Only people looking to pubstomp will have to queue up for idiots to be slaughtered. Most everyone else will be in the "no proto" groupings, so the majority will have very similar wait times. and/or matches could have fewer than 32 people, like in Oceania server. Which, btw, I prefer. ah, but it isnt that simple if everyone sits in high sec solo matches, they'll skill up very very slowly, which is fine when you're starting out since putting 3 points in all your core skills isnt much of an SP investment but to get all the good SP? the good isk? you need to head out into low or null



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