I went to college for engineering then broadcasting, I don't work in either of those fields now. Should the college give me back all my money for my time there because I couldn't find a job in either field? If so, how do they go about removing my knowledge on those subjects from my brain?

The AR isn't dead, you can still use it. It has it's place.

As to the point of the time it takes, so effing what? It takes what, a week or two to get to proto weapon, 2 -3 for a suit?

Really? F#cking instant gratification people, you're ruining everything because you cant have what you want RIGHT NOW!

We're immortal mercenaries that have our consciousnesses stored digitally...
We utilize micro-wormholes to instantly teleport into battle...
We keep banks of genetically blank clone bodies in storage...

Please don't compare the real-world with a futuristic sci-fi setting. You aren't comparing apples to apples and you just end up looking silly.



Whether the AR is useless, useful, or "dead" is not the question. CCP did not have a full weapon list on launch so players skilled into whatever was available at the time. Don't muddy the issue.



The time is takes to skill into a prototype weapon is one argument for a refund... it isn't the strongest argument, which is probably why you choose to focus on it instead of the more viable arguments CCP lead us to believe that X, Y, and Z weapons were available Uprising 1.0. They didn't even hint at weapons A through W being released, or when they would be released. Because of that players specced into the weapons we had available to us at the time. Not because they fit our playstyles, or because we thought they would be great FotM weapons.

I know I wouldn't have put a single SP into the SMG if I had the magsec SMG available to me... And I even own an SMG BPO.

Let's say CCP does let you have all your weapon SP back. Then in 2 months they buff/nerf everything again and the AR can shoot 200 M for 1000 dmg per shot, are you going to whine then that you don't have your SP in AR still

As for the additional weapons, are you going to want a respec every time they add something?

like choosing the role you want with absolute certainty, then CCP changing it in 8 months' time, rewriting the bonuses for most things, and finding out you're getting back a fraction of the SP you've spent, rather than everything so you can reevaluate what you want.

CCP gave you a dropsuit command respec when all dropsuits were released.

It is not the players' fault that CCP did not have a complete weapon list in Uprising 1.0. When we have full racial weapon parity CCP would do well to refund the SP in the weaponry tree.

Stuff we aren't sure about, like choosing the role you want with absolute certainty, then CCP changing it in 8 months' time, rewriting the bonuses for most things, and finding out you're getting back a fraction of the SP you've spent, rather than everything so you can reevaluate what you want.

That's not a player mistake. That's a developer changing everything, which deserves a full respec.

People like you are the reason we can't have nice things.

A hypothetical:

CCP: "We're taking out the scanners for a month to rework them, they WILL be back in one month's time."

Forums: "Okay, can we have the SP back?"

People like you: "No, you made a choice, accept the consequences."

CPM: "Whatever, we don't care."

Just like they said they were removing the Sagaris and Surya for rework, and we haven't heard a peep from CCP about them.

The logic behind the SP refund for Dropsuit Command was that players skilled into dropsuits before the entire line-up of dropsuits was available.

That same logic can be applied to weapons, you realize that right?

Hypothetically, a player creates his merc on launch day. He wants an automatic sidearm so naturally he skills into the SMG because that was the only automatic sidearm available to him on launch.

Fast forward to 1.8...

This player now has the magsec SMG available to him; his playstyle favors the magsec's range more than the SMG's extended clip and higher RoF. Sucks to be him right? The hundreds of thousands of SP he devoted to the SMG aren't going to do him any good now that he has the weapon he's wanted all along: the magsec SMG.

It is not the players' fault that CCP did not have a complete weapon list in Uprising 1.0. When we have full racial weapon parity CCP would do well to refund the SP in the weaponry tree.

You claim you'll stop once racial parity exists among the weapons. What happens when they add a t2 amarr weapon or add additional weapons that aren't even part of the scope right now?

Should CCP stop developing weapons once there is one racial weapon of each type, because by your logic, if CCP were to add a weapon to gallente that no one else has, you should get another respec.

When/if CCP adds higher "tiers" of weapons that is not the same as fleshing out an incomplete weapon list. In one scenario you are adding missing content, content that SHOULD be there but isn't. In the other scenario you are adding new content that piggybacks off of existing, fully realized content.

When they add whole new spectrum of weapons. For example, let's say EWAR ends up falling into the Weaponry tree somehow. The same logic I used above applies... they aren't adding missing content. They are adding totally new content.



I'll make this simple: when all four races have parity within the weapon list that exists as of 1.8 then we no longer need respecs from that point onward. Any choices players have made will be valid, and will not have been made for them by CCP, at that point.

CCP didn't even have to give you the respec on dropsuits. They could easily have said you got plenty of "value" out of the SP you spent in the (whatever limited dropsuit choice you made), because you've been running that suit until 1.8.

If you can't somehow generate 18k sp to skill into a new weapon, then you're doing it wrong.

I'm sorry, are you honestly trying to say that playing with the SMG for nearly a year was *now* wasted SP because you wanted a Magsec way back when? Is the Magsec's performance so overpowered that your SMG skills is utterly useless now? Oh woe is the merc who can't find 18k sp to skill into the Magsec since he doesn't like the SMG's "high clip and rate of fire."

THERE WILL ALWAYS BE NEW THINGS ADDED TO THE GAME. YOU WILL NOT GET A RESPEC EVERY TIME.

They released everything they had planned at 1.0, there was no "missing" content.

Generating more SP to skill into weapons that now exist isn't the issue. We've already established that getting into a prototype weapon isn't difficult. That isn't the argument here.

Theres a rumor goin around that we might get a full respec in may......I think it would be a good idea to have a full respec every new release (chromosone, uprising...etc...)

Im not crying for a respec.....they could start it next year for all I care but i just think people would stop crying if they knew there gonna get to correct there mistakes once the yearly respec comes around.

thoughts.........

Then what exactly is the argument?/quote]

We shouldn't be locked out of a portion of out SP because CCP couldn't be bothered to launch with a complete weapon list.

[quote=RayRay James]Also, new content is announced weeks in advance. We get spreadsheets, dev blogs, conversations with players and CPM. If you see something coming down the pipe, start saving your SP. Then, if you reeeeeeeally want something thats "oh, new shiny" you can go straight to prototype if your heart desires. If you cant control yourself enough to not spend your SP, then you have to wait to get the new-bestest.

Nothing is just dropped into Dust without PLENTY of warning. THAT is your notice and your choice.

Hardly...

But I have a feeling you aren't going to be swayed by anything I say anyway. If you have read my posts in this thread and still don't see why a weaponry respec is needed (not now, mind you, but after we achieve weapon parity) then you must have gotten lucky and fallen in love with one of the Uprising 1.0 weapons.

We're weren't told on launch day when, or what, would be available in the coming patches.

If a new player had been told that the CR or RR would be available by 1.X patch they might save their SP (as you are suggesting) until their racial weapon of choice has been released. They weren't offered that.

I have SP in weapons all over the board to 1 to try them out, some I trained farther (forge guns, remote explosives), some stopped at 1 (MD, RR, ScR) because I don't enjoy them. I don't consider ANY of that wasted SP and that is what SHOULD be considered wasted SP. If CCP were to add militia versions of all those weapons, should I get that SP back? NO

Not to be terse... but good for you? I honestly could care less how you view your SP. The fact is we were allowed to skill into weapons before we had the ability to make an informed decision about those weapons.

You say choices matter. You say choices have consequences. You aren't wrong, but we weren't given enough choices.

What are you proposing we should have done? Made our characters then let them sit for months until we had the full list of weapons available to us? Some fun that would be! I bet new players can't wait to run MIL fittings for more than a year while CCP adds in all of the missing content. I can see the tagline for Dust 514 now, "Dust 514, the wait is real!"

What's wrong with using whats given to you to start, and then making the choice to continue using that because you've skiled into it, or changing it up and skilling into something else? You keep talking of this missing content. There is no "missing" content. There is new content that hasn't been added yet.

If your answer to this is YES, quit playing Dust now.

If you think you should, again, quit playing Dust now and save your sanity.

How about we agree to disagree? There are some fundamental issues we strongly disagree on ("missing content" is a good example). We both feel one way or another about respecs and you can't argue with emotion.

I highly doubt CCP is ever going to read any of the respec discussions anyway Chances are they have already made their decision.

But I do want to bring up one parting thought... these two sentences here...




...are not good for the community as a whole. We're already a small community; let's not encourage players to leave simply because they feel slighted by something. Mind you, I'm not going anywhere, but some newberry might get discouraged and take your advice... then we a lose one more squadmate or redberry. Even though Dust infuriates the ever living **** out of me sometimes, I want to see it survive.