|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Symbioticforks
Ancient Exiles.
Dirt Nap Squad.
114
   |
Posted - 2014.04.17 23:37:00 -
[1] - Quote
Eko Sol wrote:Sir Dukey wrote:Stop with the freking risk/reward. If you are not willing to do sh*t about it, then it's your own fault. My sniper suits costed 130k isk in 1.6 and were easily killable by a standard tactical sniper. Get good you scurbs and stop tying to keep a sh*tty weapon in the dirt. The only viable sniper right now is the thale's.
Snipers are an unliked class but you deserve to be sniped if you don't want to counter them.
I kill 90% of sniper I face with level 2 in sniper operation, a scout suit and a tactical sniper rifle and I best most lose over 100k isk per death when I start sniping.
They all need a zoom and damage buff.
Tactical needs it's clip size increased.
Charge needs a cooler word in front of the name, a damage buff and a huge zoom capability buff.
Basic needs a damage buff. Is it me or is the reality that this game doesn't need snipers EVERY MAP. I'm sick of people thinking that every match they should be able to snipe. It just doesn't make sense. Don't buff anything with sniper rifles. I run ADV Tactical and, on the right maps, break 10 kills without dying on a bad day. Some maps aren't good for sniping either because they know where people snipe from or just have bad angles for the action. People just need to get over it. I can't run Heavy HMG every match and can't run Logi every match and can't run scout every match. I have to go between what will work in that match and sniping doesn't always work.
Oh but you can! HMG + LAV = A THING PEOPLE DO THAT WORKS. TRY IT.
^^CCP IGNORES ALL SNIPER RELATED ISSUES^^
|
Symbioticforks
Ancient Exiles.
Dirt Nap Squad.
115
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 23:40:00 -
[2] - Quote
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote:SNIPER'S UNITE !!!!!!!!
Alright I'm here now.
^^CCP IGNORES ALL SNIPER RELATED ISSUES^^
|
Symbioticforks
Ancient Exiles.
Dirt Nap Squad.
115
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 23:53:00 -
[3] - Quote
I really do not understand why people complain about red line snipers.
I'm sorry what is the problem?
You want to kill red dots until the very end of the match, but the enemy team is red lined and refuses to come out and play? How pathetic, you have zero skills in sniping and refuse to go to a supply depot to counter. Cry more, your tears are delicious.
Let's flip this around.
You're losing, but those pesky snipers in their own red line are keeping you pinned down and combat ineffective. You can't hack any of the five objectives, because they've got snipers in the red line.
Your issue must be that someone has a chance to kill you without you being able to kill them. The same can be said of an ADS or a TANK. You need to counter otherwise they're not going to die and will have an opportunity to kill you instead. With the current state of AV a sniper is something you can actually easily solo in comparison.
Are roles unfair?
Rock - Paper -Scissors
Just too difficult?
Would you like it if there were no buildings, no mountains, just boxes on flat terrain?
I bet you bread and butter meat grinding cogs would love that. Alas, it is not so!
^^CCP IGNORES ALL SNIPER RELATED ISSUES^^
|
Symbioticforks
Ancient Exiles.
Dirt Nap Squad.
115
|
Posted - 2014.04.18 00:36:00 -
[4] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:It's funny really, how you say the Thale's is the only viable sniper when it's absurdly OP.
I can one shot nearly every scout bar the most tanked one, I can one shot most non proto medium frames, and it's not problematic to get multiple shots into a heavy.
All so deep within the redline that I didn't lose a single Thale's in a few dozen matches.
If you're deep in your redline you aren't generally combat effective. You're not protecting anything, providing overwatch, and you're actually missing out on a lot of kills. You can always do better with a charge sniper rifle out of the redline than with a Thale's in the red line. This is truth.
Thanks to the new gallente "anti-sniping" map packs. *can't snipe into objectives at all* The role isn't always effective. You're complaining about a rare and limited variant of a gun that isn't always effective. Either due to the map, or the fact that the guy sniping is hiding up in the red line trying to keep his shiny toy.
The real problem is in PC.
Snipers need a Thale's to be effective. This is what has been said for a very long time. Almost every prototype suit people run is tanked out heavily. Combined with lag and that nobody ever stands still. This is the gun you need.
It could take more than 5 shots from a tactical sniper rifle to down a heavy. This type of gun you're not lining up headshots on a moving target. You're trying to land every shot. On an assault you'd need to land all 3 shots, meaning still you're going to have to reload most likely to kill one person.. and then a second reload to have a full clip for your 2nd kill of the game. 2 Reloads per kill on anything except a scout. Even with scouts 3 shots could be the case. With their speed and cloaks, screw that.
It could take more than 5 shots from an Ishokune sniper rifle to down a heavy. The clip size is larger, and head shots are rewarded a little more since this gun hits harder. Having the 5 shots helps a lot.. but you still have to shoot any assault at least 3 times.. not factoring in misses.. and if they opt to take cover and get shield regen. Shooting an assault 3x in a row, add in misses, and everything else. That's a lot of rounds and time dedicated. I'm pretty sure they could hack an objective before they're dead. Scouts stacking health, like they sometimes do same story 3 shots from the regular old ishokune sniper rifle.
It often takes 4 shots from a charge sniper rifle to kill a tanked out heavy. Factor in a miss or two.. that's a clip and half. Add in charge time. They have 7 seconds at least to take cover. And if you're going for headshots you'll need at least two of those. That's the downside on trying to headshot moving targets.. They take notice, and move even more, usually denying you the kill.
Sniper rifle damage hasn't really changed. Nobody looks at this role. They balance things around assault rifles, and figure 99% of the work is done. If you combine the damage mod nerf with stacking those fat armor mods. People generally do not have to die to snipers. Just assume there's someone trying to snipe you all the time, and you'll die a lot less to precision skill shot over watch opportunists.
^^CCP IGNORES ALL SNIPER RELATED ISSUES^^
|
Symbioticforks
Ancient Exiles.
Dirt Nap Squad.
117
|
Posted - 2014.04.18 01:20:00 -
[5] - Quote
Let me repeat this in other words.
Imagine the enemy team is stacked in a public match.. (one or two squads in prototype gear)
Pull out your prototype sniper rifle.. you're an annoyance at best.
Oh! you'll still get kills, but generally it's going to be against the remaining teammates not wearing prototype.
Rinse and repeat. You maybe killed 2 people who were important to the outcome of the match wearing prototype.
This is where sniping can feel rather underwhelming. I'm not asking for broken, just equally balanced.
^^CCP IGNORES ALL SNIPER RELATED ISSUES^^
|
Symbioticforks
Ancient Exiles.
Dirt Nap Squad.
118
|
Posted - 2014.04.18 17:17:00 -
[6] - Quote
boop
^^CCP IGNORES ALL SNIPER RELATED ISSUES^^
|
Symbioticforks
Ancient Exiles.
Dirt Nap Squad.
123
|
Posted - 2014.04.18 23:29:00 -
[7] - Quote
Jenova Rhapsodos wrote:Tyjus Vacca wrote:Jenova Rhapsodos wrote:Spent the day using a Caldari State Advanced Tactical Sniper. Averaging about 15 kills, 0 deaths per game. I only have Level 1 sniper rifle operations though, so no proficiency or whatever.
Can't say from a PC perspective, but snipers seem to be fine in pubs. The damage seems appropriate, most medium frame suits only get one-shot by a headshot. And I shouldn't be able to solo a heavy with one clip anyway.
The point raised that Thales are the viable option in PC is a great observation though. you would do much better with the basic RR Probably. I'm pretty awesome. I'd make more kills for sure, but more deaths as well. Regularly making 15-0 games in pubs is better than going 17-6 with a basic RR. What do you guys want? To drop 30 kill games every time? Snipers are fine, I feel like you're all just terrible.
What I would like is to 2 shot any suit with the Ishokune, and 3 shot a heavy. I guess that would be thales damage on the basic sniper rifle.. still seems fair since there's recoil. I say this because 3-4 shots on any suit and 5 on heavies is disgusting. Snipers are annoying at best, rarely some kind of real threat that ever must be dealt with.
There are a lot of terrible snipers out there, that's great. I'm just not one of them.
^^CCP IGNORES ALL SNIPER RELATED ISSUES^^
|
Symbioticforks
Ancient Exiles.
Dirt Nap Squad.
123
|
Posted - 2014.04.18 23:37:00 -
[8] - Quote
Jenova Rhapsodos wrote:Tyjus Vacca wrote: lol I go 20-0 with snipers all the time ...... I'm really good with them, that's how I know they suck
just because you had a couple of good games doesn't change that.
Double post here, but YOLO. If you regularly go 20-0. Snipers are not bad. They are a support class anyway. You shouldn't be out-slaying Assaults and Heavies.
Snipers can be slayers. They're not limited to support. The real upside in PC to having a sniper is they usually won't die, and can provide good point defense / rooftop support. If you're low on clones, or trying to clone the enemy they have reach.
That's maybe more my play style, I'm not trying to stop anyone from running a caldari scout with damage mods if they're into quick scoping with a tactical. Fun yes, useful not so much. Die all you want.
^^CCP IGNORES ALL SNIPER RELATED ISSUES^^
|
Symbioticforks
Ancient Exiles.
Dirt Nap Squad.
123
|
Posted - 2014.04.18 23:52:00 -
[9] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:Ok, here is why currently your request will not be listened to.
1) Redline Snipers
There are people here that are so bad at this game, that sit in the redline in, get this a 1900 EHP sentinel a pop people without a care in the world.
This is damn wrong and your first mistake.
2) Your statement "Get gud and use a Sniper Rifle"
You clearly do not understand the mechanics of this game, you should not need to use a sniper to kill a sniper. You need a hard counter that differs from the original threat.
In the case of snipers the best counter should be shotgun to the rear end of the cranium.
3) You statement "Stop with Risk vs Reward"
What you want us to keel over and let you have free kills?
Once again your lack of knowledge concerning the games meta is most disturbing, every suit costs that person money, every single suit.
The idea of Risk vs Reward is the more risks you take (suit costs, running solo behind redberry lines, using short-ranged weaponry) the better your reward if you pull it off.
There is no risk to sniping THROUGH terrain inside your redline to kill people actively part-taking in battle.
So in short, if you want ANY kind of buff to Sniper Rifles then find a way to force them from the redline. Because so long as Snipers abusethe redline their weapon is DESERVEDLY bad.
Read my posts about red line snipers.
Dust 514 has many specific roles. Sniping is a very minor specific role. if you're getting killed from the enemy red line you're doing it wrong.
1) You're probably winning already since you're pushing towards it
2) You're probably standing still or moving in predictable patterns
3) You're probably out in the open running around like you own the place
You deserve to get sniped. The enemy team is down a player who can spawn in and focus any objective on the map. They're sacrificing someone who could actively be participating to have them solely focus on a certain half or section of the map.
If you were a sniper you would know what the best hard counter to a sniper is. It's an ADS. They clear rooftops like nobody's business. They can even dive into the red line, get kills, and get out. I'll also cut you off and say if a sniper took time to call in a drop ship and get to a rooftop it's only fair you do the same.
Risk versus reward is still there as well. As I mentioned before, you'll always get way more kills with a charge sniper rifle out of the red line than with a thale's in the red line. You're also a lot more likely to die. It could be an ADS, anyone with a drop ship and a gun really. It's way easier to snipe people at 250m than 450m.
^^CCP IGNORES ALL SNIPER RELATED ISSUES^^
|
Symbioticforks
Ancient Exiles.
Dirt Nap Squad.
126
|
Posted - 2014.04.19 02:15:00 -
[10] - Quote
Ghost Kaisar wrote:Fizzer94 wrote:You guys are pathetic. Do you really want OHK sniper rifles?
CoD----------------> If I shoot someone in the head, they should die. But yes, OHK bodyshots should never happen in Dust.
Yes they should! Once someone is no longer wearing militia gear it almost always takes 2 shots. There's a huge gap between the 200hp - 1500hp suits. If you can't body shot a militia suit, I guess taking 8 shots to kill a proto heavy is okay? You can shrink those numbers a bit, and it's still way too much. Bring trash to a match, get stomped, buy aurum, buy proto, get stomped less?
^^CCP IGNORES ALL SNIPER RELATED ISSUES^^
|
|
|
Symbioticforks
Ancient Exiles.
Dirt Nap Squad.
126
|
Posted - 2014.04.19 02:19:00 -
[11] - Quote
Just had a faction warfare match, where the entire enemy team got one total kill. We had 3 prototype tanks camping the enemy red line. I was sniping way up high, each tank had 30+ kills. I had maybe 15 kills. I would have been so upset if someone on the enemy team managed to escape the meat grinder and sniped back at me.
They couldn't escape the red line. They're allowed to fight back, but God forbid with a sniper rifle...
^^CCP IGNORES ALL SNIPER RELATED ISSUES^^
|
Symbioticforks
Ancient Exiles.
Dirt Nap Squad.
126
|
Posted - 2014.04.19 02:25:00 -
[12] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:
Also I am a Sniper (every now and again) I operate from the ground not some rooftop where I can get a free shooting gallery.
Your opinion as a sniper means nothing in comparison. Sniping from the ground? Yeah, I do that too. While I'm waiting for my drop ship to land.
You're the same narrow minded garbage I had described earlier. Just a cog in the meat grinder. If you had things your way there would be no mountains, no buildings, no vantage points. Just flat terrain and boxes. Get the **** out.
^^CCP IGNORES ALL SNIPER RELATED ISSUES^^
|
Symbioticforks
Ancient Exiles.
Dirt Nap Squad.
129
|
Posted - 2014.04.19 04:47:00 -
[13] - Quote
Combat Rifle with aim assistance is about as easy as it gets.
As for bullet drop.. it's at 601m. Rail technology is so crazy!
This is not a combat simulator that prides itself on aspects of realism.
^^CCP IGNORES ALL SNIPER RELATED ISSUES^^
|
Symbioticforks
Ancient Exiles.
Dirt Nap Squad.
129
|
Posted - 2014.04.19 06:06:00 -
[14] - Quote
Spike Slania wrote:This is starting to get annoying, pretty much Snipers are calling out for a buff since their enemies are getting smarter at being able to avoid them and making their suits able to take hits and keep going. Everyone else who doesn't snipe hates on snipers since in all reality they rarely help a team and normally cause a team to lose due to lack of bodies on the front line. Snipers want a buff so they can keep camping the red line and other areas that don't matter to the game. Everyone else wants to remove the Red Line so Snipers actually take part in the game. In the end neither side will get what they want. So best I can say is I will agree that CCP regardless needs to fix the rendering issues/hit detection issues. Sniper Rifles don't need more damage.
It's not that enemies are getting "smarter at being able to avoid snipers"
It's that there has been an increase in health for any suit running armor plates. (combined with)
Proficiency Skill +15% damage versus armor only (instead of flat damage to both shields and armor) (combined with)
Damage Mod Decrease getting 12% damage from 3 of these mods instead of 24% (combined with)
Gallente Map Packs designed to be unfriendly for snipers who might otherwise be helping to hold an objective (combined with)
No Adjustment to the Sniper Rifle in an unbelievable amount of time to keep the weapon up to date. (combined with)
Sniping in a Heavy Suit for a 10% bonus to sniper rifle damage. It feels almost forced. (combined with)
Stealth Removal of Sniping Locations without warning or patch notes (combined with)
Easymode Attack Drop Ships for high rate of fire splash damage anywhere you want it. (combined with)
Cloaks and 1500hp Heavies pick one miss a lot more than normal or waste your time chipping away (combined with)
Reduced AV Grenades in both damage + amount carried. Used to be decent drop ship defense (combined with)
I can keep coming up with stuff to show you how the game has changed, and not in favor of sniping. I'm probably missing a few easy ones I could have pointed out. Oh well! Nice talk.
^^CCP IGNORES ALL SNIPER RELATED ISSUES^^
|
Symbioticforks
Ancient Exiles.
Dirt Nap Squad.
129
|
Posted - 2014.04.19 11:00:00 -
[15] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:Symbioticforks wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:
Also I am a Sniper (every now and again) I operate from the ground not some rooftop where I can get a free shooting gallery.
Your opinion as a sniper means nothing in comparison. Sniping from the ground? Yeah, I do that too. While I'm waiting for my drop ship to land. You're the same narrow minded garbage I had described earlier. Just a cog in the meat grinder. If you had things your way there would be no mountains, no buildings, no vantage points. Just flat terrain and boxes. Get the **** out. If I had my way there would be , ladders to every "vantage point" Uplinks wouldn't deploy from a certain altitude and the better view your "vantage point" gives you the easier it is for someone else to get there. Why shouldn't my opinion mean nothing because I like to put my suit on the line and givemy enemy the chamce to flank me. When I snipe I play a combat sniper, picking a nest a little further out from the action and supporting my team, I don't find the least accessible place and pop what I see, I actually benifit my team when I snipe, I seriously believe you can't say the same. So as I said your entire attitude is invictive of why you won't get buffs, the effort you need to put into kill someone is equal to effort they need to as well. And that is called BALANCE.
I just want to strangle you.
"why shouldn't my opinion mean nothing" - you're right it really should mean nothing.
"I play a combat sniper" - as opposed to a non combat sniper?
what the hell is "invictive?"
The game isn't fun at all if you're hiding in your own red line sniping. Let's not claim to know my sniping methodologies until you're on the receiving end of it. Also that comment about uplinks.. not sure what that has to do with anything really. Snipers shouldn't be using uplinks. I've deployed them no more than 10 times total in 40,000 kills.
^^CCP IGNORES ALL SNIPER RELATED ISSUES^^
|
Symbioticforks
Ancient Exiles.
Dirt Nap Squad.
145
|
Posted - 2014.04.23 10:14:00 -
[16] - Quote
I would not agree completely on changing the magnification on sniper rifles. It's not something I feel is absolutely needed. It would certainly make red line sniping a little easier.
I just want the sniper to be useful in PC. (or whatever future end game content awaits DUST 514)
Increased damage seems logical because of increased suit health / armor + no updates to the weapon. It's antiquated.
Additional Functionality could be another answer. Allow anyone with a sniper rifle the ability to "spot" targets for their squad.
^^CCP IGNORES ALL SNIPER RELATED ISSUES^^
|
Symbioticforks
Ancient Exiles.
Dirt Nap Squad.
145
|
Posted - 2014.04.23 10:17:00 -
[17] - Quote
It's not that enemies are getting "smarter at being able to avoid snipers"
It's that there has been an increase in health for any suit running armor plates. (combined with)
Proficiency Skill +15% damage versus armor only (instead of flat damage to both shields and armor) (combined with)
Damage Mod Decrease getting 12% damage from 3 of these mods instead of 24% (combined with)
Gallente Map Packs designed to be unfriendly for snipers (combined with)
No Adjustment to the Sniper Rifle in an unbelievable amount of time to keep the weapon up to date. (combined with)
Sniping in a Heavy Suit for a 10% bonus to sniper rifle damage. It feels almost forced. (combined with)
Stealth Removal of Sniping Locations without warning or patch notes (combined with)
Easymode Attack Drop Ships for high rate of fire splash damage anywhere you want it. (combined with)
Cloaks and 1500hp Heavies pick one miss a lot more than normal or waste your time chipping away (combined with)
Reduced AV Grenades in both damage + amount carried. Used to be decent drop ship defense (combined with)
I can keep coming up with stuff to show you how the game has changed, and not in favor of sniping. I'm probably missing a few easy ones I could have pointed out. Oh well! Nice talk.
^^CCP IGNORES ALL SNIPER RELATED ISSUES^^
|
Symbioticforks
Ancient Exiles.
Dirt Nap Squad.
145
|
Posted - 2014.04.23 11:00:00 -
[18] - Quote
It's not that enemies are getting "smarter at being able to avoid snipers"
It's that there has been an increase in health for any suit running armor plates. (combined with)
Proficiency Skill +15% damage versus armor only (instead of flat damage to both shields and armor) (combined with)
Damage Mod Decrease getting 12% damage from 3 of these mods instead of 24% (combined with)
Gallente Map Packs designed to be unfriendly for snipers (combined with)
No Adjustment to the Sniper Rifle in an unbelievable amount of time to keep the weapon up to date. (combined with)
Sniping in a Heavy Suit for a 10% bonus to sniper rifle damage. It feels almost forced. (combined with)
Stealth Removal of Sniping Locations without warning or patch notes (combined with)
Easymode Attack Drop Ships for high rate of fire splash damage anywhere you want it. (combined with)
Cloaks and 1500hp Heavies pick one miss a lot more than normal or waste your time chipping away (combined with)
Reduced AV Grenades in both damage + amount carried. Used to be decent drop ship defense (combined with)
Increased Drop Ship Health so much so that you can't even carry enough AV grenades to kill one! (combined with)
Fog of War /ON to no longer see what your squad sees. Waste time scanning over teammates(combined with)
Z-fighting enemies render invisible against certain surfaces, what a huge waste of time (combined with)
Removal of Mountains forcing snipers to relocate to more ground level or obvious positions. (combined with)
I can keep coming up with stuff to show you how the game has changed, and not in favor of sniping. I'm probably missing a few easy ones I could have pointed out. Oh well! Nice talk.
^^CCP IGNORES ALL SNIPER RELATED ISSUES^^
|
Symbioticforks
Ancient Exiles.
Dirt Nap Squad.
145
|
Posted - 2014.04.23 11:02:00 -
[19] - Quote
LT apparition wrote:Change:
-Sniper Rifles TO Bolt Action, Up the Damage, and Scope Fidelity 8x ?.-
*Sniper Rifles Keep Same Mag Size, Slower Rate of Fire*
*Increased Damage on "Sniper Rifles"
-Change Tactical Sniper Rifles to Marksmen Firearm, (semi-Auto),
* increase Mag Size 10 Shots at least, Acog, or 2x-4x Sights+
Lower Damage on Tacts. increase Rate of Fire.
-Charge Sniper Rifle, Changes
*more Damage, More Scope Fidelity, Over Heats when Charged to Fullest, and has to wait for the barrel to Cool,*
Change nothing. Make new guns if you want new mechanics.
(also your first rifle description is essentially the charge sniper rifle)
^^CCP IGNORES ALL SNIPER RELATED ISSUES^^
|
Symbioticforks
Ancient Exiles.
Dirt Nap Squad.
154
|
Posted - 2014.04.23 23:41:00 -
[20] - Quote
Dexter307 wrote:lrian Locust wrote:Dexter307 wrote:lrian Locust wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:I play my matches as fairly as possible, yet when Im 1 shotted in 480 EHP suit by a Sentinel with a Sniper so far in his own redline you can't even get a dropship to him, I'm told its my fault for winning. If this is the case, you've probably been hit headshotted. With the limited zoom, bad rendering and system glitches that's quite an accomplishment for a sniper behind the redline. Keep moving, keep your head down, and look for cover. Rest assured that when a sniper is so far in the redline he hardly ever contributes much to the team, which means more wins and war spoils for you. Wow, people will defend ANYTHING. Is there an OP weapon? "I can do good with other weapons so it's not OP!" Is there and UP weapon? "Not every weapon can be competitive" or "I killed someone with it so it's balanced" Uncounterable tactic? "Just avoid them!" I don't think sniping from deep in the redline is OP. It sucks, as it doesn't help the team much. The redline Sentinel isn't mobile, has hardly any zoom, doesn't have a clear view on objectives, can't shoot inside buildings, can't hack anything, and is easily suppressed. Yes, it's pretty much uncounterable, but so is a headshot from a cloaked scout, a swarm to your HAV, etc. As long as it doesn't dominate the outcome of many matches, it''s not OP. All of those have some sort of counter Sitting in the redline is 100% uncounterable
Attack Drop Ships / Militia Heavy in a Viper are pretty hard counters to take down stationary non contributing red line snipers.
^^CCP IGNORES ALL SNIPER RELATED ISSUES^^
|
|
|
Symbioticforks
Ancient Exiles.
Dirt Nap Squad.
154
|
Posted - 2014.04.24 00:05:00 -
[21] - Quote
CRNWLLC wrote:I was concerned that sniping wouldn't be viable in 1.8.
It is. Thanks, scout suits and UP mediums!
EDIT: Also, I thank anyone with low shields, which is actually a lot of players, since armor is the preferred tanking method by far, ATM.
And headshots aren't as difficult to land as people say--the poor rendering at a distance is actually a boon, since it means I have a 1x1 pixel area to hit on top of a 1x2 area (ie, 33% of the area = a headshot), versus, say, a (roughly) 3x3 area on top of a 5x9 pixel area (20% of the model's area is its "head"). In other words, the models' heads become a smaller proportion of their body the closer they are, since they are rendered in more detail. At longer distances, the graphics engine abstracts things to more general shapes, which blends previously distinct areas/features together. Once you get used to relying on Tacnet to place your shots (that is, once you get in the habit of pulling/releasing the trigger when damage profile information--ie, a % figure--is onscreen and your reticle is red), everything is much easier. Couple this with shooting reds on a horizontal beeline, and you'll hear the sweet gong again and again.
Sniping isn't good enough for PC. The rifles don't do enough damage at range to make it worth running a Sniper over let's say a slayer actively pushing or defending.
This is a push for Sniping to be more than what it currently is in end game DUST 514. Which is essentially non-factor unless using a Thale's at which point it's viable but not broken. Thanks to that huge long list of things I've named that keep the Sniper from being something desirable.
You shouldn't need things you can't purchase (OFFICER WEAPONS) to be considered worth putting on a team for competitive end game play.
When putting together a bunch of mercenaries to form a team it's NEVER desired or essential that a team fields a sniper. I'm not asking to make the role essential, just less undesirable than it currently is.
^^CCP IGNORES ALL SNIPER RELATED ISSUES^^
|
Symbioticforks
Ancient Exiles.
Dirt Nap Squad.
155
|
Posted - 2014.04.24 00:23:00 -
[22] - Quote
lrian Locust wrote:Dexter307 wrote:lrian Locust wrote:I don't think sniping from deep in the redline is OP. It sucks, as it doesn't help the team much. The redline Sentinel isn't mobile, has hardly any zoom, doesn't have a clear view on objectives, can't shoot inside buildings, can't hack anything, and is easily suppressed.
Yes, it's pretty much uncounterable, but so is a headshot from a cloaked scout, a swarm to your HAV, etc. As long as it doesn't dominate the outcome of many matches, it''s not OP. All of those have some sort of counter Sitting in the redline is 100% uncounterable Nah, you can always countersnipe. Just as it's hard to take down a tank by one person, you'll need 2 snipers to fire simulaneously. Or you can hunt them with a Minny scout and a shotgun (my fav way to take a Thales away). Alternatively, you can use a dropship or an orbital, but it's just not worth it, as it's also someone that hardly makes a difference in the match. If someone like that is on the enemies team, all the better for you. The only thing they do is pad their K/D, which means absolutely nothing in Dust.
It's funny. Next comes the comment about the non existent "hard counter" to snipers. (which has also already been named several times in this thread) The whole idea of having nothing available to kill a sniper forcibly excluding sniper rifles because that's not a "hard counter" is garbage.
Snipers are the pinnacle of anti-infantry outside of using a vehicle. Without using a vehicle bullets fired from any gun except a sniper rifle shouldn't reach them. If they die it's because you made a point of it. They're never going to capture an objective, and if you're not within their line of sight, congratulations you are now invulnerable to one of the sixteen enemy players. A snipers worth is measured by their (patience, intuition, skill, and luck). If you're running somewhere that's being covered by snipers, you can always go the other way. There's nothing that says you have to kill them, and even more so first you need to take the time and find them. This is the tradeoff they make for not always being useful. The further towards the red line they are generally the more useless they become.
^^CCP IGNORES ALL SNIPER RELATED ISSUES^^
|
Symbioticforks
Ancient Exiles.
Dirt Nap Squad.
157
|
Posted - 2014.04.24 17:17:00 -
[23] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:For the love of god, a suicide run is not a counter to sniper. If you HAVE to kill yourself just to kill something that's not a hard counter.
Not to mention you are suggesting that I take a dropship I paid for with my money, in a suit I paid for with my money just to kill a guy who is too cowardly to actually participate from within the theatre of battle.
As for the keep your head down and look for cover, what the hell do you think Im doing?
Do you really think that I'm just running around in the open like a headless chicken?
Come on, stick to cover and you'll stop dying to sniping overlords! Gosh why hadn't I thought of sticking to cover before?
Unfortunately and as will probably Pee of a lot of you in this thread CCP have said they are making maps less "Sniper Friendly", they have already decided they will follow the doctrine I have been trying to explain to you this whole damn thread.
And I'll say I again, RISK vs REWARD
The best sniping spots on the newer gallante sockets, also happen to be the easiest to reach, by everyone
While the safest spots provide the narrow angles of attack. That is balance and CCP are already doing it.
'You take the Risk, you get Reward, first across the line wins, everyone else? LOOSERS' - DJ Stryker (Burnout 3 Takedown)
I'm not suggesting you commit suicide. I'm suggesting you run into the red line with a vehicle get a kill within 13 seconds, and get out. Assuming you know where the sniper is, and have decided that you're going to kill him. Which is totally optional.
Also if there wasn't time for you to poll people I would happily bet 50,000,000 isk that you have no idea where the best sniping spots on the gallente map packs are. This doctrine you speak of is also only true of the gallente maps. I have faith that in the future there will be many rewarding sniper locations especially outside of the red line.
^^CCP IGNORES ALL SNIPER RELATED ISSUES^^
|
Symbioticforks
Ancient Exiles.
Dirt Nap Squad.
157
|
Posted - 2014.04.24 17:35:00 -
[24] - Quote
Grease Spillet - PC Support Sniper I know he used to snipe. The best PC corps generally don't field snipers though, and for good reason
Heavenly Daughter - #1 Sniper (plays PC, I think) I've never heard of this person, 20,000 kills and a 2.6 kill/death. /shrug (not sure what you mean by #1 Sniper)
I think you just proved my point. You can name 2 people.
TWO PEOPLE.
^^CCP IGNORES ALL SNIPER RELATED ISSUES^^
|
Symbioticforks
Ancient Exiles.
Dirt Nap Squad.
159
|
Posted - 2014.04.24 22:44:00 -
[25] - Quote
Ryme Intrinseca wrote:Sir Dukey wrote:Stop with the freking risk/reward. If you are not willing to do sh*t about it, then it's your own fault. My sniper suits costed 130k isk in 1.6 and were easily killable by a standard tactical sniper. Get good you scurbs and stop tying to keep a sh*tty weapon in the dirt. The only viable sniper right now is the thale's.
Snipers are an unliked class but you deserve to be sniped if you don't want to counter them.
I kill 90% of sniper I face with level 2 in sniper operation, a scout suit and a tactical sniper rifle and I best most lose over 100k isk per death when I start sniping.
They all need a zoom and damage buff.
Tactical needs it's clip size increased.
Charge needs a cooler word in front of the name, a damage buff and a huge zoom capability buff.
Basic needs a damage buff. Don't be ridiculous, snipers already OHK half the suits in the game. Just how big a win button do you need? Maybe you think your rifle should be a laser pointer calling down infinite OBs? Good snipers do fine with zoom and damage as it is. If they were any higher you'd have a lot of half empty battlefields with everyone hiding in the redline or tanks.
Here's the difference, and what you fail to understand simpleton.
Militia Sniper Rifle vs. Militia Drop Suit (MINIMUM 2 body shots for a kill / 1 head shot for a kill)
Prototype Sniper Rifle vs. Prototype Drop Suit (MINIMUM 3 body shots for a kill / 1-2 head shots for a kill)
*excluding heavies*
In their own tier.. Militia Sniper Rifle > Prototype
Balancing the Sniper Rifle might increase the percentage of one hit kills of a prototype sniper vs maybe a standard/militia drop suit. That's not what matters at all though. They're prepared to die a lot. A cheap suit provides low risk of isk loss, so death is their reward.The people running those suits generally don't matter to the out come of a match. Anyone with a combat rifle / rail rifle with a prototype drop suit could attest. They serve one purpose and that's to increase that little number next to your deaths at the end of a match. It's not even generally required that you aim to kill these people. (the miracle of hip fire)
^^CCP IGNORES ALL SNIPER RELATED ISSUES^^
|
Symbioticforks
Ancient Exiles.
Dirt Nap Squad.
160
|
Posted - 2014.04.24 23:15:00 -
[26] - Quote
Fizzer94 wrote:Symbioticforks wrote:Ryme Intrinseca wrote:Sir Dukey wrote:Stop with the freking risk/reward. If you are not willing to do sh*t about it, then it's your own fault. My sniper suits costed 130k isk in 1.6 and were easily killable by a standard tactical sniper. Get good you scurbs and stop tying to keep a sh*tty weapon in the dirt. The only viable sniper right now is the thale's.
Snipers are an unliked class but you deserve to be sniped if you don't want to counter them.
I kill 90% of sniper I face with level 2 in sniper operation, a scout suit and a tactical sniper rifle and I best most lose over 100k isk per death when I start sniping.
They all need a zoom and damage buff.
Tactical needs it's clip size increased.
Charge needs a cooler word in front of the name, a damage buff and a huge zoom capability buff.
Basic needs a damage buff. Don't be ridiculous, snipers already OHK half the suits in the game. Just how big a win button do you need? Maybe you think your rifle should be a laser pointer calling down infinite OBs? Good snipers do fine with zoom and damage as it is. If they were any higher you'd have a lot of half empty battlefields with everyone hiding in the redline or tanks. Here's the difference, and what you fail to understand simpleton. Militia Sniper Rifle vs. Militia Drop Suit (MINIMUM 2 body shots for a kill / 1 head shot for a kill) Prototype Sniper Rifle vs. Prototype Drop Suit (MINIMUM 3 body shots for a kill / 1-2 head shots for a kill) *excluding heavies* In their own tier.. Militia Sniper Rifle > Prototype Balancing the Sniper Rifle might increase the percentage of one hit kills of a prototype sniper vs maybe a standard/militia drop suit. That's not what matters at all though. They're prepared to die a lot. A cheap suit provides low risk of isk loss, so death is their reward.The people running those suits generally don't matter to the out come of a match. Anyone with a combat rifle / rail rifle with a prototype drop suit could attest. They serve one purpose and that's to increase that little number next to your deaths at the end of a match. It's not even generally required that you aim to kill these people. (the miracle of hip fire) This is true for all weapons besides grenades. A militia suit dies faster to a militia weapon than a proto suit does to a proto weapon. The Sniper Rifle shouldn't be the magical exception that does 2x more damage at PRO than it does at MLT.
It deals the same amount of damage as any rifle at prototype. (10% more)
The amount of drop suit health however goes up by 100%.
It's the difference between 2 shots and 3 shots.
Any attention given to the Sniper Rifle would be appreciated.
The gun becomes ineffective vs. anyone that requires 3+ shots to kill.
The base damage should be increased. It's that simple.
I'm not asking for the gun to fire at x2 the damage.
Most people are calling for a 20% damage increase.
Firing the weapon on those 3+ aimed shots to kill someone, it just feels bad.
It's a lot easier to take cover from a sniper than it is from any other infantry.
^^CCP IGNORES ALL SNIPER RELATED ISSUES^^
|
Symbioticforks
Ancient Exiles.
Dirt Nap Squad.
160
|
Posted - 2014.04.24 23:31:00 -
[27] - Quote
HappyAsshole1 wrote:snipers should never 1 shot heavy or medium suit tanker.
Headshots. Yes.
^^CCP IGNORES ALL SNIPER RELATED ISSUES^^
|
Symbioticforks
Ancient Exiles.
Dirt Nap Squad.
160
|
Posted - 2014.04.24 23:34:00 -
[28] - Quote
I get an unbelievable amount of kills from those same red line snipers. They're generally all so terrible. I doubt I'll ever understand this issue. Assuredly because I'm not terrible. The best players in the game don't find the time to complain about this because it's not game breaking and effects generally nothing.
^^CCP IGNORES ALL SNIPER RELATED ISSUES^^
|
Symbioticforks
Ancient Exiles.
Dirt Nap Squad.
167
|
Posted - 2014.04.25 03:46:00 -
[29] - Quote
lrian Locust wrote:D legendary hero wrote:I really sucks to get one shot killed from someone 400m risking absolutely nothing... Countersniping is easy, so they do risk something. As a sniper, that's where you find and get your easiest kills.
Q:Risking nothing? (Here's how things are.)
A:Every single match. I lose a drop ship. -50,000 isk
A:Every single time I die. I lose a drop ship. -50,000 isk
A:Every time I need mobile cover. I lose a drop ship. -50,000 isk
A:Every time I need to leave where I am. I lose a drop ship. -50,000 isk
(some of those losses are avoidable, but I'm here to play the game not recall drop ships)
A:My drop suit. 200,000 isk. Kill me once. (I'm out -250,000 isk generally) I make negative isk!
Q: What kills me the most?
A: ADS, anyone in a drop ship, counter sniper, friendly RDV.. (in that order)
Q: Which of the above can kill you in the red line?
A: All of them.
^^CCP IGNORES ALL SNIPER RELATED ISSUES^^
|
Symbioticforks
Ancient Exiles.
Dirt Nap Squad.
168
|
Posted - 2014.04.25 05:58:00 -
[30] - Quote
Richard Hansaw wrote:I think you snipers deserve your buff IF you were to lose the ability to shoot from ~600m.
the majority of all kills from a lot closer than that.
^^CCP IGNORES ALL SNIPER RELATED ISSUES^^
|
|
|
Symbioticforks
Ancient Exiles.
Dirt Nap Squad.
175
|
Posted - 2014.04.26 02:15:00 -
[31] - Quote
lrian Locust wrote:Richard Hansaw wrote:And of course I'm not saying 600m kills is a regular thing (Most I've taken is 599, actually), but if I were to record the distances they would mostly be on the 400-550m range That's far! Are you stuck in the redline? Then why are you complaining about redline sniping? And do you regard yourself as efficient, sniping from such a distance?
Yeah, any good position outside of the redline but not immediately next to it you're closer to the 220-380 range
^^CCP IGNORES ALL SNIPER RELATED ISSUES^^
|
Symbioticforks
Ancient Exiles.
Dirt Nap Squad.
175
|
Posted - 2014.04.26 02:27:00 -
[32] - Quote
Nobody really snipes standing up.. it's completely abnormal.
the "reduction to scope sway per level" is complete garbage.
You could replace that with "bonus head shot damage"
or perhaps
You could replace that with "increases the efficiency of damage mods by 20% per level."
^^CCP IGNORES ALL SNIPER RELATED ISSUES^^
|
Symbioticforks
Ancient Exiles.
General Tso's Alliance
268
|
Posted - 2014.07.28 00:33:00 -
[33] - Quote
Symbioticforks wrote:It's not that enemies are getting "smarter at being able to avoid snipers"
It's that there has been an increase in health for any suit running armor plates. (combined with)
Proficiency Skill +15% damage versus armor only (instead of flat damage to both shields and armor) (combined with)
Damage Mod Decrease getting 12% damage from 3 of these mods instead of 24% (combined with)
Gallente Map Packs designed to be unfriendly for snipers (combined with)
No Adjustment to the Sniper Rifle in an unbelievable amount of time to keep the weapon up to date. (combined with)
Sniping in a Heavy Suit for a 10% bonus to sniper rifle damage. It feels almost forced. (combined with)
Stealth Removal of Sniping Locations without warning or patch notes (combined with)
Easymode Attack Drop Ships for high rate of fire splash damage anywhere you want it. (combined with)
Cloaks and 1500hp Heavies pick one miss a lot more than normal or waste your time chipping away (combined with)
Reduced AV Grenades in both damage + amount carried. Used to be decent drop ship defense (combined with)
Increased Drop Ship Health so much so that you can't even carry enough AV grenades to kill one! (combined with)
Fog of War /ON to no longer see what your squad sees. Waste time scanning over teammates(combined with)
Z-fighting enemies render invisible against certain surfaces, what a huge waste of time (combined with)
Removal of Mountains forcing snipers to relocate to more ground level or obvious positions. (combined with)
I can keep coming up with stuff to show you how the game has changed, and not in favor of sniping. I'm probably missing a few easy ones I could have pointed out. Oh well! Nice talk.
bump
^^CCP IGNORES ALL SNIPER RELATED ISSUES^^
|
Symbioticforks
Ancient Exiles.
General Tso's Alliance
268
|
Posted - 2014.07.28 00:44:00 -
[34] - Quote
They'll never remove them. It detracts from the sandbox. They would lose like a solid percentage of their player base as well.
^^CCP IGNORES ALL SNIPER RELATED ISSUES^^
|
Symbioticforks
Ancient Exiles.
General Tso's Alliance
269
|
Posted - 2014.07.28 06:31:00 -
[35] - Quote
+I'll agree with you that most red line snipers are bad.
(When the game provides a loaded militia fit for sniping, it's bound to happen that new players will choose it and head for the hills.)
-I'll disagree with just about everything else you had to say though.
I sure as hell do not recall skilling up into "Uplink Destruction Proficiency 5". The whole point to uplinks is to place them in spots they can't be destroyed by gunfire. When you can throw down multiple uplinks there is no fear of having them all destroyed. Kill them if they're all easily visible sure, but if they've done it correctly you're not getting all of them ever. This is how good players do it.
Heavies belong in the city, not out wandering in the open. It should never take more than 3 shots from a Ishokune/Charge/Thale's to down one. I'm talking body shots. Snipers are meant to punish people for free roaming and not using cover. If they aren't lethal at range, they're not worth the spot on your team. A tank on a hill will provide sufficient "overwatch" in comparison and be much more useful.
It's been said that the sniper rifle can never be balanced to make up for the large gaps in health between the 250hp and the 1800hp suits. The correct answer is going to be increase headshot damage. I would also state that an improvement to base damage is also needed.
Unless you feel that the damage mod nerfs from 10% to 5% had something to do with snipers. In which case you're uneducated on the matter.
^^CCP IGNORES ALL SNIPER RELATED ISSUES^^
|
Symbioticforks
Ancient Exiles.
General Tso's Alliance
270
|
Posted - 2014.07.28 13:20:00 -
[36] - Quote
How many PC matches have you sniped in?
How many districts does your corporation hold again?
Snipers are combat ineffective without Thale's in PC.
When everyone pulls out all the stops the options given to snipers are pretty underwhelming.
Prove me wrong.
^^CCP IGNORES ALL SNIPER RELATED ISSUES^^
|
Symbioticforks
Ancient Exiles.
General Tso's Alliance
270
|
Posted - 2014.07.28 13:27:00 -
[37] - Quote
A damage buff wouldn't be game breaking as to allow snipers to retain past damage amounts while in any suit. Making the +10% dmg bonus snipers receive from Caldari Commando an actual BONUS, instead of retaining previous damage amounts. The flexibility without the loss in damage would be a nice option. (all this is traced back to the damage mod nerf from 10% to 5%)
A headshot bonus to further reward skilled players is certainly not game breaking, and I would welcome that change as well.
^^CCP IGNORES ALL SNIPER RELATED ISSUES^^
|
|
|
| |
|