DUST Search - Someone teach me how to better AV...

Card Drunook wrote:

While I'm out of lurker mode a bit of advice from someone who does use the same setup you do.

Accept that most of the time you CANNOT kill a tank solo.

Your goal in those times is to make it run away, which allows you as a commando to get back to killing infantry. It's nice that you now get points for damaging tanks. I've had a couple matches now where a single tank gave me 3-400 WP because I'd hit him, he'd run away then heal and return and I'd just hit him again.

Learn how to read when you CAN kill a tank solo.

This is one of those things you just have to pay attention to and get a feel for. Sometimes a tank will be in a position where you will be able to kill them. It has to do with a lot of things, the tanks position relative to terrain, how the tank is fit, how good the driver is, how much damage it already has taken, where the enemy team and your team is. There is no recipe that works all the time, but experienced players have a feel for this, so when you see one solo kill a tank ask them how they knew it was possible. Most of the time they aren't thinking about it while doing it but I'm sure most will be able to point out to you what they saw that let them know that THIS time they could kill the tank.

Use teamwork.

As both a tanker and a dropship pilot the scariest thing in the game is a coordinated AV group. Three people in starter AV fits, coordinating to fire at the same time can put 24 missiles into a tank in under 3 seconds. That will kill instantly many of the tanks you see in ambushes, and it's using only MILITIA gear. A group coordinating using better gear can do a LOT more damage in even less time. While this isn't a practical tactic against coordinated teams, in pub matches talk other people in your squad into bringing in swarms as well. Your squad will lose a lot of your ability to kill infantry (but by sticking together it won't be as bad as it sounds at first) but you'll gain the ability to kill tanks near instantly

Also, it looks AWESOME when you get 4 people alpha firing on a dropship, you just see this stream of missiles swirling at the target.

There are a lot of other things that can be done as AV (especially if you get demolitions to level 5), but this should give you a good start on using the build you said you're using. It sounded like what you wanted advice on was how to use that, not on AV in general.

Hi! Gosh, I've missed you...with every bullet, plasma shot, rail gun, and missile.

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Zaaeed Massani RisingSuns Dark Taboo 185	Posted - 2014.04.15 03:01:00 - [1] - Quote I feel like I should be a bit more effective than I am, and I have a sneaking suspicion it has something to do with my tactics. FYI my AV fit is a Minmatar Commando with Swarms. Proud Federal Marine & Republic Commando / Do you even lift?
Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 1916	Posted - 2014.04.15 03:05:00 - [2] - Quote only way to get better is to rolling a sica with 2 damage mods.
THE-PIMP-NAMED-SLICKBACK Intrepidus XI EoN. 37	Posted - 2014.04.15 03:07:00 - [3] - Quote Its not that difficult with swarm considering they're more fire and forget. Try finding a higher vantage point if your trying to locate vehicles. Its also best to wait until your target is wide out in the open, or you have their retreat covered for continuous fire for the kill. Luring tanks towards you is another effective tactic considering every blaster tank is hungry for kills. That's about all i can think of since i run around with a plasma cannon i don't have as big window of time as others. Dez gunz ah blazin~
Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1400	Posted - 2014.04.15 03:12:00 - [4] - Quote Load every eq slot on a logi with Proxi-mines (and a single nanohive if you are a gal logi) of different types. Dump all 10 at a choke point that a tank or LAV is likely to drive through, walk away, switch suits, cackle evilly when you get the destruction feed. Fun > Realism
Magnus Amadeuss Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 814	Posted - 2014.04.15 03:14:00 - [5] - Quote Zaaeed Massani wrote: I feel like I should be a bit more effective than I am, and I have a sneaking suspicion it has something to do with my tactics. FYI my AV fit is a Minmatar Commando with Swarms. DO NOT USE STANDARD OR ADV SWARMS. They are pretty much useless, they do way too little damage because of the progression of +25% damage per tier. If you use swarms, go proto or go home. See my signature if you want a more detailed analysis. Fixing swarms
Je-NOVA ZionTCD 8	Posted - 2014.04.15 03:14:00 - [6] - Quote Mobius Kaethis wrote: Load every eq slot on a logi with Proxi-mines (and a single nanohive if you are a gal logi) of different types. Dump all 10 at a choke point that a tank or LAV is likely to drive through, walk away, switch suits, cackle evilly when you get the destruction feed. If you're gonna throw proxies down and don't want a tank looking at the ground, call a cheap tank out as bait so he'll come chasing it looking up at the rdv.
KING CHECKMATE Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 5080	Posted - 2014.04.15 03:15:00 - [7] - Quote Zaaeed Massani wrote: Someone teach me how to better AV.. Get tank. Armor tank + reps Go to town. Profit. Like drones? = https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=153604&find=unread
Samuel Zelik D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 172	Posted - 2014.04.15 04:00:00 - [8] - Quote Don't use Commandos for AV. They are terribly difficult and inefficient (ie: the AV 'nades are better than an extra Light Weapon slot). Using an Assault or Scout suit might suit you better. Use at least Adv Proxies (Remotes work, too, but they don't chain as well). Once you've identified your target (don't take on more than one without a squad). If it's a Dropship, the best you can do is suppression or get lucky at best. If a LAV the Proxies should take care of it. If it's an HAV: find a choke point, place your explosives in a tight cluster, then wait for the target. If Proxies: shoot the tank with the AV weapon just before it drives through the explosives, then unload AV nades. If Remotes: detonate first, then unload AV nades and AV weapon in that order. If you're fast enough, most things will die. I recommend Flaylock as a sidearm; they are good finishers, despite being not so hot AI siderarms. Also: all Adv gear. If you want to squad with me and play/chat, I'd be happy to. Send me a mail, but I'm out until next week. I was going to use that Installation... Flashlights: Good because yes.
Harpyja Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1585	Posted - 2014.04.15 04:26:00 - [9] - Quote You could always aspire to a maxed Ishukone Assault Forge Gun.. then you'll only need one clip to destroy even maxed skilled triple rep Maddies. "By His light, and His will" - The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32
Harpyja Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1585	Posted - 2014.04.15 04:32:00 - [10] - Quote Je-NOVA wrote: Mobius Kaethis wrote: Load every eq slot on a logi with Proxi-mines (and a single nanohive if you are a gal logi) of different types. Dump all 10 at a choke point that a tank or LAV is likely to drive through, walk away, switch suits, cackle evilly when you get the destruction feed. If you're gonna throw proxies down and don't want a tank looking at the ground, call a cheap tank out as bait so he'll come chasing it looking up at the rdv. Proxies are almost impossible to spot simply because I don't spend the time and energy to look out for them (because they are rarely seen). Only once I spotted them and it was because they had stark contrast with the bright midday sand they were placed upon. I only scan the ground once I see proxies from a scanner or I end up running over some. So far I've been destroyed by proxies twice out of the handful amount of times I've ran over them (I'd say that's a good success rate) Edit: also you want to place them where a tank will be going at max speed. In other words, not near corners or exactly on entrance ways. If there isn't just one straight path where the proxies are placed, then chances are that I'll come from an angle or a different approach that will give me an alert soon enough as I'm not going fast enough for them to become unavoidable (like going around a corner, I'm not going fast enough) "By His light, and His will" - The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32

Crimson ShieId Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 351	Posted - 2014.04.15 04:33:00 - [11] - Quote Harpyja wrote: You could always aspire to a maxed Ishukone Assault Forge Gun.. then you'll only need one clip to destroy even maxed skilled triple rep Maddies. That's assuming they don't drive around a nearby corner or that you don't get shot by infantry while putting all your focus on that tank, or that they just don't boost away after the first hit... or that your forge gun fires all four shots when you need it to... Forget investing skill points, just buy a militia sica, fit a damage mod, shield hardener, armor hardener, and plates and go to town. Works best for single pops, cheap, effective, and actually gives you a chance of killing that tank before he drives away... Or go a harder route and get a scout suit with RE's. The above option is much easier and less SP intensive though. Nova Knives are OP! Nerf em before you lose all your proto suits!
Operative 1171 Aajli Bragian Order Amarr Empire 1867	Posted - 2014.04.15 04:33:00 - [12] - Quote Get a tank. Did someone say get a tank already? Cause you should totally get a tank. Brick tanking a scout suit since April 2013!
Harpyja Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1585	Posted - 2014.04.15 04:40:00 - [13] - Quote Crimson ShieId wrote: Harpyja wrote: You could always aspire to a maxed Ishukone Assault Forge Gun.. then you'll only need one clip to destroy even maxed skilled triple rep Maddies. That's assuming they don't drive around a nearby corner or that you don't get shot by infantry while putting all your focus on that tank, or that they just don't boost away after the first hit... or that your forge gun fires all four shots when you need it to... Forget investing skill points, just buy a militia sica, fit a damage mod, shield hardener, armor hardener, and plates and go to town. Works best for single pops, cheap, effective, and actually gives you a chance of killing that tank before he drives away... Or go a harder route and get a scout suit with RE's. The above option is much easier and less SP intensive though. Using a 0 SP tank is a scrub tactic and it only softens up AVers. Then when their 0 SP militia crutches are nerfed, they'd have forgotten how to use proper AV and cry that tanks are still powerful and demand an AV buff and/or tank nerf, when really all they needed to do was learn how to use AV properly. Or even better, for 0 SP and ISK investment, you can avoid tanks altogether. My infantry alt still has yet to die to a blaster tank, and I run on it a fair amount of times. I got 0 SP into AV. I just avoid tanks altogether and they don't bother me, or at least are unsuccessful at killing me, get bored, and move on to find a blueberry that's not as difficult to kill. "By His light, and His will" - The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32
Card Drunook DoC Deck of Contractors 90	Posted - 2014.04.15 04:47:00 - [14] - Quote While I'm out of lurker mode a bit of advice from someone who does use the same setup you do. Accept that most of the time you CANNOT kill a tank solo. Your goal in those times is to make it run away, which allows you as a commando to get back to killing infantry. It's nice that you now get points for damaging tanks. I've had a couple matches now where a single tank gave me 3-400 WP because I'd hit him, he'd run away then heal and return and I'd just hit him again. Learn how to read when you CAN kill a tank solo. This is one of those things you just have to pay attention to and get a feel for. Sometimes a tank will be in a position where you will be able to kill them. It has to do with a lot of things, the tanks position relative to terrain, how the tank is fit, how good the driver is, how much damage it already has taken, where the enemy team and your team is. There is no recipe that works all the time, but experienced players have a feel for this, so when you see one solo kill a tank ask them how they knew it was possible. Most of the time they aren't thinking about it while doing it but I'm sure most will be able to point out to you what they saw that let them know that THIS time they could kill the tank. Use teamwork. As both a tanker and a dropship pilot the scariest thing in the game is a coordinated AV group. Three people in starter AV fits, coordinating to fire at the same time can put 24 missiles into a tank in under 3 seconds. That will kill instantly many of the tanks you see in ambushes, and it's using only MILITIA gear. A group coordinating using better gear can do a LOT more damage in even less time. While this isn't a practical tactic against coordinated teams, in pub matches talk other people in your squad into bringing in swarms as well. Your squad will lose a lot of your ability to kill infantry (but by sticking together it won't be as bad as it sounds at first) but you'll gain the ability to kill tanks near instantly. Also, it looks AWESOME when you get 4 people alpha firing on a dropship, you just see this stream of missiles swirling at the target. There are a lot of other things that can be done as AV (especially if you get demolitions to level 5), but this should give you a good start on using the build you said you're using. It sounded like what you wanted advice on was how to use that, not on AV in general.
Seeth Mensch Capital Acquisitions LLC Dirt Nap Squad. 203	Posted - 2014.04.15 04:54:00 - [15] - Quote Card Drunook wrote: While I'm out of lurker mode a bit of advice from someone who does use the same setup you do. Accept that most of the time you CANNOT kill a tank solo. Your goal in those times is to make it run away, which allows you as a commando to get back to killing infantry. It's nice that you now get points for damaging tanks. I've had a couple matches now where a single tank gave me 3-400 WP because I'd hit him, he'd run away then heal and return and I'd just hit him again. Learn how to read when you CAN kill a tank solo. This is one of those things you just have to pay attention to and get a feel for. Sometimes a tank will be in a position where you will be able to kill them. It has to do with a lot of things, the tanks position relative to terrain, how the tank is fit, how good the driver is, how much damage it already has taken, where the enemy team and your team is. There is no recipe that works all the time, but experienced players have a feel for this, so when you see one solo kill a tank ask them how they knew it was possible. Most of the time they aren't thinking about it while doing it but I'm sure most will be able to point out to you what they saw that let them know that THIS time they could kill the tank. Use teamwork. As both a tanker and a dropship pilot the scariest thing in the game is a coordinated AV group. Three people in starter AV fits, coordinating to fire at the same time can put 24 missiles into a tank in under 3 seconds. That will kill instantly many of the tanks you see in ambushes, and it's using only MILITIA gear. A group coordinating using better gear can do a LOT more damage in even less time. While this isn't a practical tactic against coordinated teams, in pub matches talk other people in your squad into bringing in swarms as well. Your squad will lose a lot of your ability to kill infantry (but by sticking together it won't be as bad as it sounds at first) but you'll gain the ability to kill tanks near instantly. Also, it looks AWESOME when you get 4 people alpha firing on a dropship, you just see this stream of missiles swirling at the target. There are a lot of other things that can be done as AV (especially if you get demolitions to level 5), but this should give you a good start on using the build you said you're using. It sounded like what you wanted advice on was how to use that, not on AV in general. This one is best. Seriously. So much in this game is context dependent; you just gotta watch for your chances. Suppression now counts for a lot, and we gets scores representative of that, which is fantastic. Hi! Gosh, I've missed you...with every bullet, plasma shot, rail gun, and missile.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 5106	Posted - 2014.04.15 05:36:00 - [16] - Quote Something that everyone so far has missed. KNOW YOUR WEAPON. Swarms, while a light weapon and limited in effectiveness until you hit Proto, are viable as a distraction or a supporting AV weapon at lower tiers. An important trick to learn is the ability to arc your shots correctly. The basic thing to know is that when you get a lock, you have a moment where you can aim away from the target before releasing the swarm, and your missiles will fly straight out from the launcher before curving towards the target. If an enemy vehicle is moving towards cover, you can lock on then aim AWAY from that cover to cause your misisles to curve around behind the enemy and effectively shoot around the corner. If you aim up before firing, you can make your shots travel in a high arc, hitting targets as they disappear behind low hills. This technique can also be used to mask your position. tankers frequently try to hunt down Swarm users, but if your missiles are coming from 20 degrees off-angle from your location, that can give you a head start if you arc your shot to the right then move left, or vice versa. Firing so your shots arc up and over a pipe can make it look like you're on top of the pipe when you're underneath. Doing the reverse and firing down while on the pipe can sometimes keep your victim from looking up until it's too late. Unfortunately, it isn't as simple as "always arc your shots" and it's important to learn WHEN to do it for the best effect. That's something that can only really be learned by experience. Play with it, see when it works and when it doesn't. Learn when you can get away with firing straight, and when that arcing shot is going to help
Mercenary Anti Armor Dust2Dust. Top Men. 31	Posted - 2014.04.15 05:52:00 - [17] - Quote Most of the people here got it cover already, to kill a tanker is to be a tanker and see what can a tank do. For example, u noticed the soma turn slower, so when u think the soma is in a tight spot, go for the kill. There alot but u just have to see and experience them I'll swarm the out of you guys
Will Driver CLONES AGAINST HUMANITY 31	Posted - 2014.04.15 05:53:00 - [18] - Quote Samuel Zelik wrote: Don't use Commandos for AV. They are terribly difficult and inefficient (ie: the AV 'nades are better than an extra Light Weapon slot). Using an Assault or Scout suit might suit you better. Use at least Adv Proxies (Remotes work, too, but they don't chain as well). Once you've identified your target (don't take on more than one without a squad). If it's a Dropship, the best you can do is suppression or get lucky at best. If a LAV the Proxies should take care of it. If it's an HAV: find a choke point, place your explosives in a tight cluster, then wait for the target. If Proxies: shoot the tank with the AV weapon just before it drives through the explosives, then unload AV nades. If Remotes: detonate first, then unload AV nades and AV weapon in that order. If you're fast enough, most things will die. I recommend Flaylock as a sidearm; they are good finishers, despite being not so hot AI siderarms. Also: all Adv gear. If you want to squad with me and play/chat, I'd be happy to. Send me a mail, but I'm out until next week. Disagree, Min Commando has bonus for explosive weapons such as swarms. And having a second light weapon means you are not defenseless against infantry. But you have to go proto swarms or go home. Lure Tank to kill zone and fire away. Use cover if necessary and repeat until you hear that oh so satisfying pop. GÇ£Creativity is knowing how to hide your sourcesGÇ¥ GÇò Albert Einstein
wait reloading Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 7	Posted - 2014.04.15 07:23:00 - [19] - Quote If you are going with swarms, min commando is a good choice. But one of the first things you do in a match is put down droplinks, close enough to be effective - far enough away that you won't be camped. Another good idea is to place them in a spot where your entire team doesn't spawns on them, too many people in one spot draws them to you, and your links get used up. Location is your best defence, really try not to engage in the open, and have proto swarms with flux grenades to wipe out shields. Even removing shields on an armour tank will work with swarms. An idea for shield tanks is use a scout, cloak and get close to them and flux, leaving a bit of armour left. Most AV tactics will work better in pairs.
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1998	Posted - 2014.04.15 07:31:00 - [20] - Quote Zaaeed Massani wrote: I feel like I should be a bit more effective than I am, and I have a sneaking suspicion it has something to do with my tactics. FYI my AV fit is a Minmatar Commando with Swarms. I'll go with what you're using. Min commando at level 5, 2 complex damage mods, swarm proficiency 5. Since I'm a tanker, and most infantry are so inept I'm surprised they're able to wipe themselves upon finishing on the toilet, I'll mostly say stop using Darkside swarms with a shield extender on the high slot. Oh, and stop trying to solo tanks. Every time I'm destroyed by AV, it's by people that don't visit the English forums, and they're working as a team. I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim

Lynn Beck Wake N' Bake Inc Top Men. 1168	Posted - 2014.04.15 07:38:00 - [21] - Quote My min commando is pretty good at dropping Sica's and non-triple rep maddies I rely on rooftops and holes in bridge guard thingys(look like a sniper shield, but they have a hole) I depend on staying hard to hit, while still being able to lock. Another such example is the hand-rails that have yellow paint. Aside from that, don't engage a tank when they're just rolling in, engage right before they stop, also try and stay out of their FoV, try standing across the street from your allies, and watch as he gets scared shitless General John Ripper is my 2nd best friend!
Black SlaverX Seykal Expeditionary Group Minmatar Republic 151	Posted - 2014.04.15 07:40:00 - [22] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Zaaeed Massani wrote: I feel like I should be a bit more effective than I am, and I have a sneaking suspicion it has something to do with my tactics. FYI my AV fit is a Minmatar Commando with Swarms. I'll go with what you're using. Min commando at level 5, 2 complex damage mods, swarm proficiency 5. Since I'm a tanker, and most infantry are so inept I'm surprised they're able to wipe themselves upon finishing on the toilet, I'll mostly say stop using Darkside swarms with a shield extender on the high slot. Oh, and stop trying to solo tanks. Every time I'm destroyed by AV, it's by people that don't visit the English forums, and they're working as a team. That's right, remember folks, tankers don't need teamwork, but AV sure as hell does. Balance...... Watch your back because I might be there.
Evan Gotabor Prima Gallicus 19	Posted - 2014.04.15 07:50:00 - [23] - Quote Plasma canon, remote explosive and AV grenades on a light/medium suit. And you can destroy proto tanks with a fit that don't even worth 10.000 isk. Place 3 standard remotes on a tank, lower it's shields with one shot of the plasma canon, and then you blow it up. Gallente logistic dropsuit / Dropship pilot
Zaaeed Massani RisingSuns Dark Taboo 188	Posted - 2014.04.15 14:32:00 - [24] - Quote Thanks for the replies. Definitely picked up some good tips that should help. Proud Federal Marine & Republic Commando / Do you even lift?
Joel II X Dah Gods O Bacon 2257	Posted - 2014.04.15 14:48:00 - [25] - Quote Ghosts Chance wrote: only way to get better is to rolling a sica with 2 damage mods. Do you not get tired of posting that?
Alpha 443-6732 General Tso's Alliance 464	Posted - 2014.04.15 14:58:00 - [26] - Quote Black SlaverX wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Zaaeed Massani wrote: I feel like I should be a bit more effective than I am, and I have a sneaking suspicion it has something to do with my tactics. FYI my AV fit is a Minmatar Commando with Swarms. I'll go with what you're using. Min commando at level 5, 2 complex damage mods, swarm proficiency 5. Since I'm a tanker, and most infantry are so inept I'm surprised they're able to wipe themselves upon finishing on the toilet, I'll mostly say stop using Darkside swarms with a shield extender on the high slot. Oh, and stop trying to solo tanks. Every time I'm destroyed by AV, it's by people that don't visit the English forums, and they're working as a team. That's right, remember folks, tankers don't need teamwork, but AV sure as hell does. Balance...... If you were reading the thread, you can also avoid a tank in it's entirety OR suppress it with one person, while mowing down infantry (commando) OR kill it, free of charge, with 2 other people or you can solo the average tank with a forge balance...
NAV HIV The Generals General Tso's Alliance 1456	Posted - 2014.04.15 14:58:00 - [27] - Quote Zaaeed Massani wrote: I feel like I should be a bit more effective than I am, and I have a sneaking suspicion it has something to do with my tactics. FYI my AV fit is a Minmatar Commando with Swarms. Swarms are very weak atm... If the hardeners are down, you may be able to get 75Wp for doing some damage, but that's about it... Minmando isn't a bad suit... it's the swarms, they need a bit of range and damage buff... I'd say FG for AVing but they are not working atm...
Alpha 443-6732 General Tso's Alliance 465	Posted - 2014.04.15 15:00:00 - [28] - Quote NAV HIV wrote: Zaaeed Massani wrote: I feel like I should be a bit more effective than I am, and I have a sneaking suspicion it has something to do with my tactics. FYI my AV fit is a Minmatar Commando with Swarms. Swarms are very weak atm... If the hardeners are down, you may be able to get 75Wp for doing some damage, but that's about it... Minmando isn't a bad suit... it's the swarms, they need a bit of range and damage buff... I'd say FG for AVing but they are not working atm... 3 standard swarm volleys in quick succession will guarantee 75 wp on any semi hardened vehicle (as long as you launch them fairly quickly) I carry std/adv swarms on my commando for the squad AV support on the fly and for the free points + the ability to mow infantry down at the same time
Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 1277	Posted - 2014.04.15 15:05:00 - [29] - Quote Zaaeed Massani wrote: I feel like I should be a bit more effective than I am, and I have a sneaking suspicion it has something to do with my tactics. FYI my AV fit is a Minmatar Commando with Swarms. get a tank yourself, no need for super pro skills or fits.
Hecarim Van Hohen Bullet Cluster Lokun Listamenn 1013	Posted - 2014.04.15 15:08:00 - [30] - Quote To kill a tank you must become the tank "Now I am become Dev, the locker of threads." -CCP Logibro -2176440-



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