I've heard lots of different views on the issue, but I would like to hear as many opinions as possible. If there was no passive ISK and you only got ISK from fighting would you want to hold land?

This would also be in light of increasing clone pack sizes back to their original 150 at the current 300k per clone cost. Fighting getting you double what you receive now but no passive ISK to prop up payroll, vehicle reimbursement, or the hiring of ringers. The only issue is you only collect the payment when you win your fights and if you can't win your fights you end up with nothing.

Guys, just to be clear again we are likely looking on only being able to get simple number changes to what we currently have. Right now the current potential numbers floating are as follows:

Plan One: Passive Reduction
*Greatly reduce clone sale price (passive ISK) and increase Biomass price: something like 40-60k clone sale and 160-180k biomass

Plan Two: Passive Elimination
*Reduce clone sale price (passive ISK) to effectively 0 and double biomass price to 200-210k

Paired with both these plans would be a clone pack size increase to 150 clones at a cost of 300k per clone to prevent self-attacks for locking or ISK farming by killing the clone pack.

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While I hate passive ISK, my concern is still that eliminating it may lead to negative effects on participation in PC.

The side benefit of turning off passive ISK all together is that it could allow a new region to be opened up without the concern of passive ISK bleeding into the Dust economy from the PC system on an even larger scale.

We are all discussing putting band-aids on a sucking chest wound here. PC is, at best, high stakes, winner take all skirmish, at worst, an ISK faucet. Pull the plug, start over with a more meaningful Dust/EVE crossover game mode.

The current land holders will adapt and overcome as they always have, so these changes wouldn't remove them from participating in PC. My concern is that this could reduce or eliminate corps, especially new ones, working towards getting involved in Planetary Conquest since the promise of wealth from passive ISK would be gone. Now what we are looking at is the incentive being that players work towards forming strong organizations to fight others in order to get ISK and that could very well be a positive direction.

You have to understand that having land has the inherent negative of the game basically saying, "You will play at X time if someone chooses to attack you or you will loose this land." That negative is offset by the passive ISK and the corp programs like payroll and vehicle replacement that it can fund. As a result when you remove passive ISK entirely is could lead many corps not even trying to enter the PC arena because there is no way to set off the entry costs.

I guess it comes down to whether or not the negatives of turning off passive are outweighed by it's benefits.

In fact, $80M is too low. The reason that CCP reduced the number of clones in the pack is because they wanted to limit the clone pack attacks. I agree with their intention but instead of nerfing the number of clones, they should have just raised the price. $120M for 200 clones sounds about right....$120M - $150M or so.

The Idea of holding land to do nothing more than defend it? No I wouldn't bother, I would fight to take it from someone but I wouldn't put effort into defending it if I don't get a benifit.

There needs to be a reason, something that makes me care, that makes me want more land than I have.

1) Ground-Based Facilities need to give HUGE bonuses to Alliances and Corporations. For Example
Gùå Research Facilities lower the time to research/produce blueprints, while increasing the number of runs per blueprint.
Gùå Production Facilities reduce the production time/resource consumption of producing items
Gùå Space Elevator Facilities allow for the transferal of resources at a faster rate than mining them by hand.
Gùå Mining Facilities while producing small amounts of resources also restrict mining in adjacent districts by Capsuleers, forcing them to either mine elsewhere or pay levies as set by the Space Elevator
Gùå Storage Facilities alloe resources to be stored on planet where EvE pilots cannot salvage/mine/steal or otherwise obtain without permission.

2) Allow Dust-Mercs to run missions to sabotage/steal resouces from these facilities
Gùå Allow Blueprint Segments to be stolen / delay completion of the current blueprint research
Gùå Allow inventory items to be stolen / delay completion of a manufacturing run
Gùå Disable Taxes Levies / Halt all interplanetary transport of materials
Gùå Disable Minning Operations
Gùå Steal Resouces

Doing this will mean people like myself will hold land not just for the sake of holding it, but because of the industrial power it can grant. Done correctly PC should provide income for its custodians, but in a far more round about way then the current method of selling surplus clones.

increasing the clone pack cost and number of clones is a good idea. 120 clones definitely needs to be increased to at least 150..at most 200. But then you don't want people to just spam clone packs all the time. You want attacks to be strategic..instead of launching clone packs and hitting any district from anywhere. So, you have to increase the cost of the clone pack....$80M was a good number. I don't think it should be lower than that.

It used to cost $240M to takeover a hub. CCP got that part right