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Canari Elphus
Dirt Nap Squad.
1410
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Posted - 2014.04.12 12:30:00 -
[1] - Quote
Im sorry but blaming players is the wrong way to go here because they have zero control over the state of the game. That is like saying that it isnt the parent's fault for their kids committing a crime. You are actually doing CCP a disservice by saying that they are so weak that they let the players dictate the flow of the game and that they should be absolved of any responsibility of how it turned out because they are not in control.
Its human nature for people to flock to the route that will give them the best chance of success in a competitive environment. If the routes are relatively equal, they will choose the one that they gain the most entertainment from.
It is CCPs responsibility to provide the framework in which players interact. They set the limits on what you can do within the game and are in charge of making sure that the game has enough balance that one route is not heavily favoured over the other.
The number one failing here is that CCP does not seem to have developed the proper metrics in which to design initial balance with new releases or manage those additions once they are brought into the game. With every patch, we have had issues with what appears to be a lack of QA testing that creates instant unbalance within the game. I believe that this is because CCP does not rely upon adequate use of test servers and 'consultant' gamers to beta test releases before they hit the game. This has been shown to be true again and again with their releases and I have yet to see them do anything about it.
- Breach ARs in Beta
- Laser Rifles in Beta
- Flaylock Pistols
- Mass Drivers
- TAC ARs
- Slayer Logis
- Rail Rifles
- Changes to Vehicle Modules
Asking people to self regulate is a scenario that has failed over and over again and this does not even apply to gamers. Just look at the financial crisis and you will see what self regulation can accomplish.
Canari Elphus for CPM1
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Canari Elphus
Dirt Nap Squad.
1410
|
Posted - 2014.04.12 12:59:00 -
[2] - Quote
RogueTrooper 2000AD wrote:Canari Elphus wrote:Im sorry but blaming players is the wrong way to go here because they have zero control over the state of the game. That is like saying that it isnt the parent's fault for their kids committing a crime. You are actually doing CCP a disservice by saying that they are so weak that they let the players dictate the flow of the game and that they should be absolved of any responsibility of how it turned out because they are not in control.
Its human nature for people to flock to the route that will give them the best chance of success in a competitive environment. If the routes are relatively equal, they will choose the one that they gain the most entertainment from.
It is CCPs responsibility to provide the framework in which players interact. They set the limits on what you can do within the game and are in charge of making sure that the game has enough balance that one route is not heavily favoured over the other.
The number one failing here is that CCP does not seem to have developed the proper metrics in which to design initial balance with new releases or manage those additions once they are brought into the game. With every patch, we have had issues with what appears to be a lack of QA testing that creates instant unbalance within the game. I believe that this is because CCP does not rely upon adequate use of test servers and 'consultant' gamers to beta test releases before they hit the game. This has been shown to be true again and again with their releases and I have yet to see them do anything about it.
- Breach ARs in Beta
- Laser Rifles in Beta
- Flaylock Pistols
- Mass Drivers
- TAC ARs
- Slayer Logis
- Rail Rifles
- Changes to Vehicle Modules
Asking people to self regulate is a scenario that has failed over and over again and this does not even apply to gamers. Just look at the financial crisis and you will see what self regulation can accomplish. Dust has never and will never be competitive although people have a competitive attitude with the game itself. The closest to competitive was corp battles and the leagues people are trying to set up. A competition requires set parameters where everyone has the same things at their disposal, sp gaps and passive cskills make that impossible but dust was never meant to be competitive anyway, hence people setting up actual competitive leagues. I have forgotten the name but the guy in the war room.
When I talk about 'competition' I am speaking in the strictest sense in regards to player versus player matches and not arena or league play. If you have matches that pit a group of players against another group of players, they will naturally flock to setups that will give them the best chance of winning (either personally or as a group). This is why some players become redline snipers/railgunners or go heavy/lav.
Canari Elphus for CPM1
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Canari Elphus
Dirt Nap Squad.
1412
|
Posted - 2014.04.12 13:31:00 -
[3] - Quote
RogueTrooper 2000AD wrote:The Robot Devil wrote:RogueTrooper 2000AD wrote:Canari Elphus wrote:Im sorry but blaming players is the wrong way to go here because they have zero control over the state of the game. That is like saying that it isnt the parent's fault for their kids committing a crime. You are actually doing CCP a disservice by saying that they are so weak that they let the players dictate the flow of the game and that they should be absolved of any responsibility of how it turned out because they are not in control.
Its human nature for people to flock to the route that will give them the best chance of success in a competitive environment. If the routes are relatively equal, they will choose the one that they gain the most entertainment from.
It is CCPs responsibility to provide the framework in which players interact. They set the limits on what you can do within the game and are in charge of making sure that the game has enough balance that one route is not heavily favoured over the other.
The number one failing here is that CCP does not seem to have developed the proper metrics in which to design initial balance with new releases or manage those additions once they are brought into the game. With every patch, we have had issues with what appears to be a lack of QA testing that creates instant unbalance within the game. I believe that this is because CCP does not rely upon adequate use of test servers and 'consultant' gamers to beta test releases before they hit the game. This has been shown to be true again and again with their releases and I have yet to see them do anything about it.
- Breach ARs in Beta
- Laser Rifles in Beta
- Flaylock Pistols
- Mass Drivers
- TAC ARs
- Slayer Logis
- Rail Rifles
- Changes to Vehicle Modules
Asking people to self regulate is a scenario that has failed over and over again and this does not even apply to gamers. Just look at the financial crisis and you will see what self regulation can accomplish. Dust has never and will never be competitive although people have a competitive attitude with the game itself. The closest to competitive was corp battles and the leagues people are trying to set up. A competition requires set parameters where everyone has the same things at their disposal, sp gaps and passive cskills make that impossible but dust was never meant to be competitive anyway, hence people setting up actual competitive leagues. I have forgotten the name but the guy in the war room. Every person has equal access to every thing in game and all the stats are exactly the same for every piece of equipment offered to every player equally. Player choice and skill are the only things that are not exactly the same every time. Sounds right. I am not saying the game is perfectly balanced, bugless, perfectly smooth, without lag, without glitches or any other technical thing. All stats are the same and only choices made by the individual matter because anyone can get anything they want and if all people skilled into the same thing and used the same gear then it would be exactly equal. Choices and skill matter and if I choose to skill into something and spend my time with that item then my skill increases. How is that not competitive? Sp gaps and passive skills destroy any chance of dust being competitive. Please tell me you understand what competitive level play is?. When everyone was rocking the tac ar and cal logi, that was almost competitive but passive percentages made that impossible. EVERYTIME dust nearly becomes competitive is when we get fotm and everyone ius using it and it comes down to who really is actually better but like I said, dust wasn't meant to be competitive otherwise it'd be bland as fk and no one would want that anyway. That's not even mentioning exploits. Just because you are adamant about winning and you are willing to go all out doesn't make anything competitive.
I think you are all debating using different definitions of 'competitive'.
Rogue - You are referring to ESL type competition where players are pitted against each other and skill is the determining factor. This is arena or gladiator style gameplay and has been discussed by CCP as an addition to the game. Others have also tried to bring this about with things such as Thunderdome etc.
In the strictest sense, anything is competitive when there is goal and multiple people are trying to reach said goal. There is no requirement that there needs to be balance or equality in this scenario. Whomever wins, wins regardless of what tactic or mechanics they use to do so.
I am not saying either of you are wrong, just first decide on the basis of what you are going to debate before moving forward as I think you are both talking about two separate things.
Canari Elphus for CPM1
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