DUST Search - Shield damaging weapon suck...

Aero Yassavi wrote:

Ziiro Celeste wrote:

Zahle Undt wrote:

Ziiro Celeste wrote:

The ScR is TOO specialized and its proficiency bonus is overkill imo. The ScR already does 120% to shields, with proficiency V, I'm doing 139% to shields which is ludicrous, why would I ever need to do THAT much damage to one tanking method?

Unless you apply damage modifiers to the ScR, it will always only do 80% towards armor, so in my situation, my ScR's damage profile is 139/80 in an era where everyone is stacking as much armor as they possibly can beneath their shields.

The ScR isn't UP per se, it is just a perfect storm of proficiency changes, damage mod nerf, rifle nerf, and everyone brick tanking that makes the ScR feel weaker than it actually is.

3% per level means 135%/80% is what you are doing. I compensated for this by pairing a MagSec with my ScR on my amarr assault. I can still finish off all but a sentinel's armor just fine with ScR still and I suck at this game. TTK is still too low for the prficiencty change to matter as much as I thought it would.

Weird, I have prof V and no damage mods on my suit, yet every time I put the reticule over someone, it comes up as 139%.

That's because Zahle doesn't understand how the skill applies. It's not 120% + 15%, it's 120% x115% = 138%. Not sure were your extra percent is coming from.

Anyways damage profiles are definitely pretty ridiculous. While scramblers are stuck at 138/80, a combat rifle can get 95/127 which is by far the best damage profile. You are doing near full damage to a tanking type that can't tank that highly even with complex extenders, then a bunch of damage against the bulkiest tanking type. I'm not sure why anyone uses anything other than combat rifles.

What really needs to happen is remove the proficiency bonuses to all weapons entirely, so lasers are always 120/80, blasters are always 110/90, rails are always 90/110, and change projectiles so they are always 90/110 as well (no clue why they were at 95/110). Then make the proficiency give some other sort of bonus, perhaps weapon specific. Maybe 5% heat reduction for the scrambler and laser rifles, clip size increase for combat rifle, hipfire accuracy with the AR, stuff like that then completely rework the assaults all over again (because let's face it, they already need to be completely reworked anyways).

Most tankers are like sand people. They frighten easily, but will quickly return...and in greater numbers.

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NIGGSWORM KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 594	Posted - 2014.04.10 19:32:00 - [1] - Quote All the suits are carrying over 400 armor and its just stupid to use a shield damaging weapon. A rail-rifle/ combat rifle probably does a better job of taking out shield than the shield weapons except for scrambler rifle which definitely sucks at taking out armor. Also, who the fuk thought it was a good idea to give a suit the most ehp and the weapon with the lowest TTK? Shotgun hit detection needs to be fixed aswell.
Sir Dukey KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 594	Posted - 2014.04.10 19:32:00 - [2] - Quote All the suits are carrying over 400 armor and its just stupid to use a shield damaging weapon. A rail-rifle/ combat rifle probably does a better job of taking out shield than the shield weapons except for scrambler rifle which definitely sucks at taking out armor. Also, who the fuk thought it was a good idea to give a suit the most ehp and the weapon with the lowest TTK? Shotgun hit detection needs to be fixed aswell.
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 1646	Posted - 2014.04.10 19:34:00 - [3] - Quote As a Caldari assault, ScR annihilate me. Even after the 1.8 TTK balancing they frequently one-shot me. I haven't seen many ScP on the field... LR is impressive again. LR can make rethink trying to ab objective... Just my 0.02 ISK He imposes order on the chaos of organic evolution...
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries Dirt Nap Squad. 8226	Posted - 2014.04.10 19:36:00 - [4] - Quote Current meta is brick tanking. Hence, everything runs with absurdly high amounts of BOTH shields and armor. My intentions is to have a fun game for everyone. If I seem to be biased, I have good hard data to back it up.
Ziiro Celeste Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State 41	Posted - 2014.04.10 19:40:00 - [5] - Quote The ScR is TOO specialized and its proficiency bonus is overkill imo. The ScR already does 120% to shields, with proficiency V, I'm doing 139% to shields which is ludicrous, why would I ever need to do THAT much damage to one tanking method? Unless you apply damage modifiers to the ScR, it will always only do 80% towards armor, so in my situation, my ScR's damage profile is 139/80 in an era where everyone is stacking as much armor as they possibly can beneath their shields. The ScR isn't UP per se, it is just a perfect storm of proficiency changes, damage mod nerf, rifle nerf, and everyone brick tanking that makes the ScR feel weaker than it actually is. The forgotten "A" in AAA
Contaminator Aquarius WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men. 57	Posted - 2014.04.10 19:42:00 - [6] - Quote sir duckey at it again with his ineffective and perpetual complaints about everything and especially whatever angered him today in battle. please disregard admitting you are being illogical doesn't validate your point. It shows you know you are being dumb and keep talking
jerrmy12 kahoalii 934	Posted - 2014.04.10 19:44:00 - [7] - Quote Contaminator Aquarius wrote: sir duckey at it again with his ineffective and perpetual complaints about everything and especially whatever angered him today in battle. please disregard Well if anything, the scr is op It completely rednders 2 races, 2 playstyle 100% useless insta lose, non beam lasers need a buff and nerf 115% shields 85% armor or idk Closed beta vet Tears, sweet delicious tears
Asha Starwind DUST University Ivy League 774	Posted - 2014.04.10 19:47:00 - [8] - Quote Sir Dukey wrote: All the suits are carrying over 400 armor and its just stupid to use a shield damaging weapon. A rail-rifle/ combat rifle probably does a better job of taking out shield than the shield weapons except for scrambler rifle which definitely sucks at taking out armor. Also, who the fuk thought it was a good idea to give a suit the most ehp and the weapon with the lowest TTK? Shotgun hit detection needs to be fixed aswell. Deal with it bro. Go pop more shield suits that you scr users love to post about the scr melting iirc it still does. Mad Bomber - 50% less profile Return dumbfire to Swarms
Ziiro Celeste Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State 43	Posted - 2014.04.10 19:53:00 - [9] - Quote Asha Starwind wrote: Sir Dukey wrote: All the suits are carrying over 400 armor and its just stupid to use a shield damaging weapon. A rail-rifle/ combat rifle probably does a better job of taking out shield than the shield weapons except for scrambler rifle which definitely sucks at taking out armor. Also, who the fuk thought it was a good idea to give a suit the most ehp and the weapon with the lowest TTK? Shotgun hit detection needs to be fixed aswell. Deal with it bro. Go pop more shield suits that you scr users love to post about the scr melting iirc it still does. cuts eyes Your name is eerily similar to Aisha Ctarl's...... The forgotten "A" in AAA
Zahle Undt Bullet Cluster Lokun Listamenn 1279	Posted - 2014.04.10 19:59:00 - [10] - Quote Ziiro Celeste wrote: The ScR is TOO specialized and its proficiency bonus is overkill imo. The ScR already does 120% to shields, with proficiency V, I'm doing 139% to shields which is ludicrous, why would I ever need to do THAT much damage to one tanking method? Unless you apply damage modifiers to the ScR, it will always only do 80% towards armor, so in my situation, my ScR's damage profile is 139/80 in an era where everyone is stacking as much armor as they possibly can beneath their shields. The ScR isn't UP per se, it is just a perfect storm of proficiency changes, damage mod nerf, rifle nerf, and everyone brick tanking that makes the ScR feel weaker than it actually is. 3% per level means 135%/80% is what you are doing. I compensated for this by pairing a MagSec with my ScR on my amarr assault. I can still finish off all but a sentinel's armor just fine with ScR still and I suck at this game. TTK is still too low for the prficiencty change to matter as much as I thought it would. Most tankers are like sand people. They frighten easily, but will quickly return...and in greater numbers.

Ziiro Celeste Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State 44	Posted - 2014.04.10 20:01:00 - [11] - Quote Zahle Undt wrote: Ziiro Celeste wrote: The ScR is TOO specialized and its proficiency bonus is overkill imo. The ScR already does 120% to shields, with proficiency V, I'm doing 139% to shields which is ludicrous, why would I ever need to do THAT much damage to one tanking method? Unless you apply damage modifiers to the ScR, it will always only do 80% towards armor, so in my situation, my ScR's damage profile is 139/80 in an era where everyone is stacking as much armor as they possibly can beneath their shields. The ScR isn't UP per se, it is just a perfect storm of proficiency changes, damage mod nerf, rifle nerf, and everyone brick tanking that makes the ScR feel weaker than it actually is. 3% per level means 135%/80% is what you are doing. I compensated for this by pairing a MagSec with my ScR on my amarr assault. I can still finish off all but a sentinel's armor just fine with ScR still and I suck at this game. TTK is still too low for the prficiencty change to matter as much as I thought it would. Weird, I have prof V and no damage mods on my suit, yet every time I put the reticule over someone, it comes up as 139%. The forgotten "A" in AAA
Charlotte O'Dell Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 2374	Posted - 2014.04.10 20:07:00 - [12] - Quote Mass driver prof 5 on minmando with 2 dmods ;) 120+15+8.7+10=153.7% vs armor ;) So evil and delicious I have 147.7/80 on my mk.0 Charlotte O'Dell is the highest level unicorn!
jerrmy12 kahoalii 935	Posted - 2014.04.10 20:08:00 - [13] - Quote Charlotte O'Dell wrote: Mass driver prof 5 on minmando with 2 dmods ;) 120+15+8.7+10=153.7% vs armor ;) So evil and delicious I have 147.7/80 on my mk.0 I need a vid of a proto mass driver no damage mods or commando Closed beta vet Tears, sweet delicious tears
Lucrezia LeGrand 453	Posted - 2014.04.10 20:14:00 - [14] - Quote while I'm sure shield-based weapons are doing exactly what CCP wants them to do, I have a feeling that sir dukey isn't entirely just QQ'ing. I have Assault Rifles at operation 5 and proficiency 5, but when 1.8 came I found myself moving over to the rail rifle. I don't think it's all in my head, but I found I was doing just as good if not better with the RR over the AR even though I only had RR at operation 3 at the time. I'm not too worried, because I feel like 1.9 (and all other updates) will continue to tweak dam, range, and efficiency. But AR feel worse (in comparison) in 1.8 than they did in 1.7. shrugs donno. my two cents. Thale groupie (not the gun, but the man).
Chunky Munkey Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 3845	Posted - 2014.04.10 20:16:00 - [15] - Quote You're complaining about anti-shield weaponry vs armour. GTFO No.
Sir Dukey KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 594	Posted - 2014.04.10 20:34:00 - [16] - Quote Chunky Munkey wrote: You're complaining about anti-shield weaponry vs armour. GTFO Anti armor weaponry> anti shield weaponry at taking out shields.
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 8005	Posted - 2014.04.10 20:36:00 - [17] - Quote Ziiro Celeste wrote: Zahle Undt wrote: Ziiro Celeste wrote: The ScR is TOO specialized and its proficiency bonus is overkill imo. The ScR already does 120% to shields, with proficiency V, I'm doing 139% to shields which is ludicrous, why would I ever need to do THAT much damage to one tanking method? Unless you apply damage modifiers to the ScR, it will always only do 80% towards armor, so in my situation, my ScR's damage profile is 139/80 in an era where everyone is stacking as much armor as they possibly can beneath their shields. The ScR isn't UP per se, it is just a perfect storm of proficiency changes, damage mod nerf, rifle nerf, and everyone brick tanking that makes the ScR feel weaker than it actually is. 3% per level means 135%/80% is what you are doing. I compensated for this by pairing a MagSec with my ScR on my amarr assault. I can still finish off all but a sentinel's armor just fine with ScR still and I suck at this game. TTK is still too low for the prficiencty change to matter as much as I thought it would. Weird, I have prof V and no damage mods on my suit, yet every time I put the reticule over someone, it comes up as 139%. That's because Zahle doesn't understand how the skill applies. It's not 120% + 15%, it's 120% x115% = 138%. Not sure were your extra percent is coming from. Anyways damage profiles are definitely pretty ridiculous. While scramblers are stuck at 138/80, a combat rifle can get 95/127 which is by far the best damage profile. You are doing near full damage to a tanking type that can't tank that highly even with complex extenders, then a bunch of damage against the bulkiest tanking type. I'm not sure why anyone uses anything other than combat rifles. What really needs to happen is remove the proficiency bonuses to all weapons entirely, so lasers are always 120/80, blasters are always 110/90, rails are always 90/110, and change projectiles so they are always 90/110 as well (no clue why they were at 95/110). Then make the proficiency give some other sort of bonus, perhaps weapon specific. Maybe 5% heat reduction for the scrambler and laser rifles, clip size increase for combat rifle, hipfire accuracy with the AR, stuff like that then completely rework the assaults all over again (because let's face it, they already need to be completely reworked anyways). Amarr are the good guys.
21yrOld Knight Pradox XVI 699	Posted - 2014.04.10 20:37:00 - [18] - Quote #DoYouEvenCaldari #QQ Mike Ruan Said I was Dust Famous DNS first to use game theory. Neo-Realism. Prisoner dilemma look it up b4 you meta
Auris Lionesse Capital Acquisitions LLC Dirt Nap Squad. 712	Posted - 2014.04.10 20:39:00 - [19] - Quote I don't understand op. Combat rifle has lowest ttk? Min don't have most ehp Wut? Gallente Heavy Ninja Turtles! Gallente Heavy Ninja Turtles! Heroes in a half Gank! *TURTLE POWER!!!*
Lucrezia LeGrand 453	Posted - 2014.04.10 20:41:00 - [20] - Quote Chunky Munkey wrote: You're complaining about anti-shield weaponry vs armour. GTFO o_O it's not really so much about using anti-shield weaponry against armor. I understand that each weapon behaves differently. It's that currently, it is much easier to armor tank than it is to shield tank (with the occasional caldari scout being the exception). Also, using shield modules vs armor modules, armor scales much faster (militia shield extender- 22 hp < militia armor plates- 85 hp). So when most of the players are running high armor, you really start to see combat rifle and rail rifle outperform assault rifle and scrambler rifles on a consistent basis. That's not to say that ScR and AR don't have their places, but Sir dukey is saying that right now he feels like the AR is under-performing compared to all the other racial rifles. I kind of agree. Thale groupie (not the gun, but the man).

Martin0 Brancaleone Maphia Clan Corporation 526	Posted - 2014.04.10 20:44:00 - [21] - Quote I kill people just fine with my Gek-38 AR. Maybe it is because i still fit damage mods (that are FAR from useless) instead of shield extenders. Maybe because i actually aim. Dunno, get gud?
Zahle Undt Bullet Cluster Lokun Listamenn 1280	Posted - 2014.04.10 20:45:00 - [22] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: Ziiro Celeste wrote: Zahle Undt wrote: Ziiro Celeste wrote: The ScR is TOO specialized and its proficiency bonus is overkill imo. The ScR already does 120% to shields, with proficiency V, I'm doing 139% to shields which is ludicrous, why would I ever need to do THAT much damage to one tanking method? Unless you apply damage modifiers to the ScR, it will always only do 80% towards armor, so in my situation, my ScR's damage profile is 139/80 in an era where everyone is stacking as much armor as they possibly can beneath their shields. The ScR isn't UP per se, it is just a perfect storm of proficiency changes, damage mod nerf, rifle nerf, and everyone brick tanking that makes the ScR feel weaker than it actually is. 3% per level means 135%/80% is what you are doing. I compensated for this by pairing a MagSec with my ScR on my amarr assault. I can still finish off all but a sentinel's armor just fine with ScR still and I suck at this game. TTK is still too low for the prficiencty change to matter as much as I thought it would. Weird, I have prof V and no damage mods on my suit, yet every time I put the reticule over someone, it comes up as 139%. That's because Zahle doesn't understand how the skill applies. It's not 120% + 15%, it's 120% x115% = 138%. Not sure were your extra percent is coming from. Anyways damage profiles are definitely pretty ridiculous. While scramblers are stuck at 138/80, a combat rifle can get 95/127 which is by far the best damage profile. You are doing near full damage to a tanking type that can't tank that highly even with complex extenders, then a bunch of damage against the bulkiest tanking type. I'm not sure why anyone uses anything other than combat rifles. What really needs to happen is remove the proficiency bonuses to all weapons entirely, so lasers are always 120/80, blasters are always 110/90, rails are always 90/110, and change projectiles so they are always 90/110 as well (no clue why they were at 95/110). Then make the proficiency give some other sort of bonus, perhaps weapon specific. Maybe 5% heat reduction for the scrambler and laser rifles, clip size increase for combat rifle, hipfire accuracy with the AR, stuff like that then completely rework the assaults all over again (because let's face it, they already need to be completely reworked anyways). I guess you are right and I am mistaken. I think the only reason everyone isn't using a CR is because not everyone just uses what is best. As a devotee of Amarrian things I am going to guess you understand that sentiment. Most tankers are like sand people. They frighten easily, but will quickly return...and in greater numbers.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 9422	Posted - 2014.04.10 20:45:00 - [23] - Quote Sir Dukey wrote: All the suits are carrying over 400 armor and its just stupid to use a shield damaging weapon. A rail-rifle/ combat rifle probably does a better job of taking out shield than the shield weapons except for scrambler rifle which definitely sucks at taking out armor. Also, who the fuk thought it was a good idea to give a suit the most ehp and the weapon with the lowest TTK? Shotgun hit detection needs to be fixed aswell. Honestly dude if you think that you really are not all that much of a player...... I use only Amarrian weapons, laser damage only, anti shields only..... I have nothing....not one thing to complain about with Amarr guns, they are very balanced and great at anti shield work. And yes the Combat Rifle has the best efficiencies model from anti shield and anti armour, being -5% and +10% respectively. "Get thine Swag out of my face! Next you'll be writing #YOLOswagforJamyl in all your posts!" -Dagger Two
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 2474	Posted - 2014.04.10 20:54:00 - [24] - Quote Everyone running with 400 Armour? I barely hit 400 EHP Unless your a Computer Scientist don't tell me how Game Mechanics Work. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl 2.
Eko Sol Strange Playings 153	Posted - 2014.04.10 20:58:00 - [25] - Quote Learn to cook flux nades.
Smooth Assassin Stardust Incorporation IMMORTAL REGIME 1193	Posted - 2014.04.10 21:12:00 - [26] - Quote The shotgun's real bonus is more pellets. I have LVL 5 because i was stupid enough to get the ROF up in 1.7 but now i can usually 2 shot heavies since the pellets have some tiny EMP module that rips their shields. *Assassination is my thing.*
The dark cloud The Rainbow Effect Dirt Nap Squad. 2739	Posted - 2014.04.10 21:30:00 - [27] - Quote You can thank CCP for the current bricktanking. If damage mods would not suck then you would see lower overall HP values. Head of public relations from The Rainbow Effect.
Kaminoikari DROID EXILES General Tso's Alliance 60	Posted - 2014.04.10 21:31:00 - [28] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Sir Dukey wrote: All the suits are carrying over 400 armor and its just stupid to use a shield damaging weapon. A rail-rifle/ combat rifle probably does a better job of taking out shield than the shield weapons except for scrambler rifle which definitely sucks at taking out armor. Also, who the fuk thought it was a good idea to give a suit the most ehp and the weapon with the lowest TTK? Shotgun hit detection needs to be fixed aswell. Honestly dude if you think that you really are not all that much of a player...... I use only Amarrian weapons, laser damage only, anti shields only..... I have nothing....not one thing to complain about with Amarr guns, they are very balanced and great at anti shield work. And yes the Combat Rifle has the best efficiencies model from anti shield and anti armour, being -5% and +10% respectively. This. Dropships need a buff. This way they can stop derping everywhere . ;_; >Tfw no Amarr dropship and laser turrets
Denesian Morenti The Neutral Zone 18	Posted - 2014.04.10 23:08:00 - [29] - Quote I no problem raping people with the CRD-9 assault scrambler rifle?
Cody Sietz Bullet Cluster Lokun Listamenn 2986	Posted - 2014.04.10 23:54:00 - [30] - Quote It's just that it's much easier to get higher armour then shields. The most shields you can get are around 500 and only shield based suit and heavies can achieve(non Caldari of course) Armour on the other hand can reach 500 with just a plate or two depending on the suit. The shield based weapons should be doing a little more dmg to compensate for this. "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire

Travis Stanush GunFall Mobilization 82	Posted - 2014.04.11 00:32:00 - [31] - Quote The problem is that it just is so much easier to use armour, CCP needs to find a way to make shields worthwhile to use without the extra armour. Idk I just know that things can get out of hand pretty quickly when shields are too good...


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