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It is time CCP make a choice

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deezy dabest CLONES AGAINST HUMANITY 310	Posted - 2014.04.08 07:24:00 - [1] - Quote Of the most notable problems not able to be attributed to bad coding the vast majority can be attributed to one simple fact. CCP has built the game for a large number more players than they have managed to sustain. Matchmaking is broken due to the low number of players being forced together to get a match started. Public contract payouts are broken by matchmaking being terrible. Planetary Conquest pricing and mechanics are broken by the fact that a corp would have to have 1/4 of the player base who are also getting the payouts they should in pub contracts to contend. CCP needs to make a decision as to whether they are going to continue to pander to the vets who have stuck with them for no good reason while they wallow in mediocrity (at best) or if they are going to grow the game and make it work for those already in the game and those who they are able to bring to the game. The old saying goes, "you can not have your cake and eat it too" well CCP it is time you realize this and pick a path.
al nize mk2 DUST University Ivy League 59	Posted - 2014.04.08 07:45:00 - [2] - Quote I love DUST but even as an 11m SP average player I am finding it far too hard to make any progress. I dread to think what New Players are making of it at the moment. 1.8 has sucked the fun out of it for the time being and I'm not progressing at all. I'm back to getting stomped pretty much every time which is dis-heartening. I've no intention of quitting - I trust this stuff will get fixed - but I'm not playing as much and won't be spending any more real money because it seems like a fruitless exercise. Why bother skilling up faster? I'm going to get Proto-stomped either way. For the record I'm pretty patient with difficult games and usually pretty good at them as well. I know console gamers and few of them are as patient as I am. DUST still has massive potential and I still like it so I'm not crying too much... GÇ£All that I know most surely about morality and obligations I owe to football.GÇ¥
deezy dabest CLONES AGAINST HUMANITY 311	Posted - 2014.04.08 07:52:00 - [3] - Quote al nize mk2 wrote: I love DUST but even as an 11m SP average player I am finding it far too hard to make any progress. I dread to think what New Players are making of it at the moment. 1.8 has sucked the fun out of it for the time being and I'm not progressing at all. I'm back to getting stomped pretty much every time which is dis-heartening. I've no intention of quitting - I trust this stuff will get fixed - but I'm not playing as much and won't be spending any more real money because it seems like a fruitless exercise. Why bother skilling up faster? I'm going to get Proto-stomped either way. For the record I'm pretty patient with difficult games and usually pretty good at them as well. I know console gamers and few of them are as patient as I am. DUST still has massive potential and I still like it so I'm not crying too much... You have described the plight of many of us within dust and the exact problem I am pointing to that needs to be fixed one way or another. There would be infinite more short term potential and countless long term potential here if CCP were on the same path that the game is on. They have created a vision that many of us love and want to see happen but are following through poorly for unknown reasons.
boba's fetta Dead Man's Game 514	Posted - 2014.04.08 08:21:00 - [4] - Quote deezy dabest wrote: Of the most notable problems not able to be attributed to bad coding the vast majority can be attributed to one simple fact. CCP has built the game for a large number more players than they have managed to sustain. Matchmaking is broken due to the low number of players being forced together to get a match started. Public contract payouts are broken by matchmaking being terrible. Planetary Conquest pricing and mechanics are broken by the fact that a corp would have to have 1/4 of the player base who are also getting the payouts they should in pub contracts to contend. CCP needs to make a decision as to whether they are going to continue to pander to the vets who have stuck with them for no good reason while they wallow in mediocrity (at best) or if they are going to grow the game and make it work for those already in the game and those who they are able to bring to the game. The old saying goes, "you can not have your cake and eat it too" well CCP it is time you realize this and pick a path. so what are you supposed to do with the cake? put it on the mantel pice and stare at it? this analogy makes no sense. skills are not being applied till 30 secs after spawn fixes before nerfs thank you.
deezy dabest CLONES AGAINST HUMANITY 312	Posted - 2014.04.08 08:27:00 - [5] - Quote boba's fetta wrote: so what are you supposed to do with the cake? put it on the mantel pice and stare at it? this analogy makes no sense. It is one I have always stayed away from but it works. If you have your cake you have not eaten it. If you have eaten your cake you no longer have it. My point is do they want to have a large player base or do they want to imagine they will some day have a large player base.
Funkmaster Whale Ancient Exiles. 1751	Posted - 2014.04.08 08:31:00 - [6] - Quote So you declare an ultimatum while making no noteworthy suggestions, providing no data, and using faulty logic and expect people to be sympathetic? This game is ruthless. You have to get used to that. No one is here to hold your hand. There are plenty other easier games for you to play if you so wish. No one, including CCP, is gonna get on their knees and beg for you to come play DUST. Now stop making these nonsense posts and HTFU. Let me play you the song of my people!
Doshneil Antaro Dem Durrty Boyz Dirt Nap Squad. 255	Posted - 2014.04.08 08:36:00 - [7] - Quote 1. hit detection fixed 2. pvp 3. player market 4. kb/m fixed These alone and I'm sure dust would at least double in active players in the first month. The player base would also be able to continue to grow. Sage /thread
deezy dabest CLONES AGAINST HUMANITY 312	Posted - 2014.04.08 08:38:00 - [8] - Quote Funkmaster Whale wrote: So you declare an ultimatum while making no noteworthy suggestions, providing no data, and using faulty logic and expect people to be sympathetic? This game is ruthless. You have to get used to that. No one is here to hold your hand. There are plenty other easier games for you to play if you so wish. No one, including CCP, is gonna get on their knees and beg for you to come play DUST. Now stop making these nonsense posts and HTFU. I do not need anyone to hold my hand and that is not what I am asking for. You claim my logic as faulty but tell me where I am wrong on in game mechanics being broken the way they are. If you had taken some time to study the mechanics of the game you would be able to see it yourself. I am bored as hell with this game and really want to see it grow is all. As far as suggestions it is very simple GROW THE PLAYER BASE. Without them doing that and working to maintain those people that come in none of the current implementations work.
al nize mk2 DUST University Ivy League 60	Posted - 2014.04.08 08:42:00 - [9] - Quote boba's fetta wrote: so what are you supposed to do with the cake? put it on the mantel pice and stare at it? this analogy makes no sense. I think it's a matter of not alienating the Vets who have helped make the game what it is today (sustainable, full of potential) but at the same time growing the game and making it work for a whole new audience. It's a tricky thing to do - and I don't want the game to be easy or super-casual or anything like that. But it can't bring in new players in any great numbers while it continues to use them as cannon fodder for hungry Vets. I don't blame the Vets by the way - why wouldn't they hoover up all the kills they can when it's an option? I would.. probably... Maybe it would be a good idea to extend the academy experience and then have a forced draft into corporations once you reach a certain amount of WP. Established corporations have to accept new players - and the statistically worst corporations get their pick of the statistically best new players - a bit like the Football draft in the US. That could help even the playing field. GÇ£All that I know most surely about morality and obligations I owe to football.GÇ¥
deezy dabest CLONES AGAINST HUMANITY 312	Posted - 2014.04.08 08:57:00 - [10] - Quote al nize mk2 wrote: boba's fetta wrote: so what are you supposed to do with the cake? put it on the mantel pice and stare at it? this analogy makes no sense. I think it's a matter of not alienating the Vets who have helped make the game what it is today (sustainable, full of potential) but at the same time growing the game and making it work for a whole new audience. It's a tricky thing to do - and I don't want the game to be easy or super-casual or anything like that. But it can't bring in new players in any great numbers while it continues to use them as cannon fodder for hungry Vets. I don't blame the Vets by the way - why wouldn't they hoover up all the kills they can when it's an option? I would.. probably... Maybe it would be a good idea to extend the academy experience and then have a forced draft into corporations once you reach a certain amount of WP. CCP has done a great job implementing some mechanics that would work incredibly well even if we could sustain over 10k players online. (Totally a guessed number but was doing fairly well at even the numbers during the MCC) If vets are playing vets and newbies are playing newbies then payouts would become proportionate to the equipment being used. If a corporation is able to have 100 players without that consisting of a full percentage of the active player base who are receiving appropriate payouts the money for PC becomes a non issue as well. The academy is a band aid that has been placed on the fact that newbies have no where to fall in the current matchmaking system thanks to the low number of players that are within competitive range to them and with a proper player base to support the matchmaking system would have no place in the game.

al nize mk2 DUST University Ivy League 60	Posted - 2014.04.08 09:25:00 - [11] - Quote deezy dabest wrote: The academy is a band aid that has been placed on the fact that newbies have no where to fall in the current matchmaking system thanks to the low number of players that are within competitive range to them and with a proper player base to support the matchmaking system would have no place in the game. I actually think the academy as a concept is a good idea. The problem with match making at SP or WP level is that you don't have the "one universe - one war" idea working at full potential. The game gets stuck in different skill zones and the potential of PC is muzzled. I agree that match making needs sorting - but I also see the point of view that says stick everyone in the mix and see what happens because that's what "one universe one war" is all about. There needs to be a levelling of Corporations - and all battles should go Corp Vs Corp no matter what mode you're playing in. GÇ£All that I know most surely about morality and obligations I owe to football.GÇ¥
Operative 1171 Aajli Bragian Order Amarr Empire 1810	Posted - 2014.04.08 09:52:00 - [12] - Quote Funkmaster Whale wrote: So you declare an ultimatum while making no noteworthy suggestions, providing no data, and using faulty logic and expect people to be sympathetic? This game is ruthless. You have to get used to that. No one is here to hold your hand. There are plenty other easier games for you to play if you so wish. No one, including CCP, is gonna get on their knees and beg for you to come play DUST. Now stop making these nonsense posts and HTFU. Bad development is not the same as intentionally hard game play. CCP should learn to get on their knees more and blow hard. They have purposefully set themselves up for no accountability. That's bad. Brick tanking a scout suit since April 2013!
Kaltos Darksbane Shadow Wolves Inc. 181	Posted - 2014.04.08 09:59:00 - [13] - Quote Here is what I think needs to happen. First, PVE needs to be implemented ASAP. This alone will keep many new players from giving up and never returning to New Eden. Second, a massive market advertising strategy should go out to let more people know of this game and bring in the numbers Deezy is talking about. And with PVE already around these new players won't have to go through the torment many of us have had to endure. Granted, advertising is expensive. But does anyone here think that other games like CoD and Battlefield got thier numbers stricly from releasing thier respective products? No way, these titles are heavily advertised. This is what gets them the numbers they now enjoy. I believe the same would be true of Dust 514. If more eyes were to see what we all have seen I believe many would be interested and start playing. And with PVE implemented those new players would have a mode to play when they get tired of being stomped in pubs, and eventually moving towards the PvP side when they get more skills and experience. Thus this would solve the problem of keeping the playerbase high. Third, player market. Nuff said, this helps everyone from bitter vets to noobs and everyone in between. Then after these things they need to get to fixing the gameplay problems like hit detection, lag, and so on. Just my .02 Dust 514?...............More like Dust 5150. I support SP rollover!
VALCORE72 NECROM0NGERS Caps and Mercs 118	Posted - 2014.04.08 10:46:00 - [14] - Quote snail sh.it moves faster then ccp . didnt you know that lol
al nize mk2 DUST University Ivy League 60	Posted - 2014.04.08 11:06:00 - [15] - Quote Kaltos Darksbane wrote: Here is what I think needs to happen. First, PVE needs to be implemented ASAP. This alone will keep many new players from giving up and never returning to New Eden. Second, a massive market advertising strategy should go out to let more people know of this game and bring in the numbers Deezy is talking about. And with PVE already around these new players won't have to go through the torment many of us have had to endure. Granted, advertising is expensive. But does anyone here think that other games like CoD and Battlefield got thier numbers stricly from releasing thier respective products? I agree with that - advertising DUST is key. Friends of mine who are pretty big gamers haven't even heard of it. There should be more adverts! GÇ£All that I know most surely about morality and obligations I owe to football.GÇ¥
steadyhand amarr TeamPlayers Dirt Nap Squad. 2800	Posted - 2014.04.08 11:08:00 - [16] - Quote Until there is correct progression gateing they wont be able to fix the problem vets will beatup newbs for the lols just look at the battle adcam, tbh i dont think we need match making unless you have fixed variables like in chess or a shooter like halo, its basically impossable to do because players game the system. Instead in my view you simply strip out the avantatge of being vet for dramticaly reduced rewards. This kind of progression makes it clear where to go while keeping the game sandboxie as u still have full choice where to go "i dont care about you or your goals, just show me the dam isk" winner of EU squad cup GOGO power rangers
BMSTUBBY KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 661	Posted - 2014.04.08 11:24:00 - [17] - Quote Funkmaster Whale wrote: No one, including CCP, is gonna get on their knees and beg for you to come play DUST. Now stop making these nonsense posts and HTFU. Meh, I would consider this a form of CCP begging for players to come back. Quote: Did you play DUST 514 before, but weren't impressed? Perhaps the mechanics weren't polished enough for you, you had issues in Planetary Conquest, or were otherwise just not happy with it. But did you know about the many changes that have happened in DUST 514 over the past several months? Remember, even if you haven't played DUST, you've still been accruing passive Skill Points the entire time, so you can jump back in and train up to get your skills up to snuff. But we're not just telling you to use what you've already got. In addition, we'll be offering anyone who has had an account inactive for at least 60 days who comes back the following gifts: 100 copies of the Black Eagles Scout Dropsuit 100 copies of the Quafe Scout Dropsuit So come back, give DUST 514 another try, and get some slick dropsuits to storm onto the battlefield. http://dust514.com/events/welcome-back-to-dust-514/ Yeah they begged! HTFU Pff LOL yeah okay fanboy. Meh, F2P Lobby Shooter BattleDuty 514 Working as intended.
Kaltos Darksbane Shadow Wolves Inc. 182	Posted - 2014.04.08 11:37:00 - [18] - Quote [quote=steadyhand amarr]Until there is correct progression gateing they wont be able to fix the problem vets will beatup newbs for the lols just look at the battle adcam, tbh i dont think we need match making unless you have fixed variables like in chess or a shooter like halo, its basically impossable to do because players game the system. This is exactly what I think PvE will be able to solve. Newbs won't have to put themselves out there with the vets until they feel they are ready. Dust 514?...............More like Dust 5150. I support SP rollover!
Kaltos Darksbane Shadow Wolves Inc. 182	Posted - 2014.04.08 11:43:00 - [19] - Quote steadyhand amarr wrote: Instead in my view you simply strip out the avantatge of being vet for dramticaly reduced rewards. This kind of progression makes it clear where to go while keeping the game sandboxie as u still have full choice where to go I think vets deserve thier place of dominance. Time served (so to speak) should count for something in my book. But this is where advertising getting many more players will decrease the frequency of newbs even encountering vets as often as they do now with the current "matchmaking." Side note: Also opening up more regions for PC to give the vets space to fight over would help tremendously. Dust 514?...............More like Dust 5150. I support SP rollover!
IceShifter Childhaspawn Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 500	Posted - 2014.04.08 11:44:00 - [20] - Quote -Find a way to play DUST that does not force a day old (hell, a year old) player to be protostomped into quitting. -Find a way to allow the elitist corps to play the way they have earned. -Find a way to allow CCP to grow the game while insulating players from rageworthy gameplay. Current way to win DUST is to chase fotm, race to proto and join the biggest crew of asshats you can find. -No fitting diversity -No new player experience -Zero play variety. (Its either stomp, or be stomped) CCP Logibro is awesome.

al nize mk2 DUST University Ivy League 60	Posted - 2014.04.08 11:45:00 - [21] - Quote IceShifter Childhaspawn wrote: -Find a way to play DUST that does not force a day old (hell, a year old) player to be protostomped into quitting. -Find a way to allow the elitist corps to play the way they have earned. -Find a way to allow CCP to grow the game while insulating players from rageworthy gameplay. Current way to win DUST is to chase fotm, race to proto and join the biggest crew of asshats you can find. -No fitting diversity -No new player experience -Zero play variety. (Its either stomp, or be stomped) Much as I love DUST 514 I'm afraid this post hits the nail on the head when it comes to gameplay in 1.8 GÇ£All that I know most surely about morality and obligations I owe to football.GÇ¥
steadyhand amarr TeamPlayers Dirt Nap Squad. 2800	Posted - 2014.04.08 12:03:00 - [22] - Quote I agree but its not going to be ready for months if it even hits this year by which point i will have moved onto destiny as my shooter of choice, cant really see bungie getting that one wrong. "i dont care about you or your goals, just show me the dam isk" winner of EU squad cup GOGO power rangers
NAV HIV The Generals General Tso's Alliance 1374	Posted - 2014.04.08 12:31:00 - [23] - Quote Squad work is OP, so is Team Work If your squad is set up properly... (Not just Assault heavy and logi... ) The game is more fun...
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 1934	Posted - 2014.04.08 12:59:00 - [24] - Quote Doshneil Antaro wrote: 1. hit detection fixed 2. pvp 3. player market 4. kb/m fixed These alone and I'm sure dust would at least double in active players in the first month. The player base would also be able to continue to grow. I agree completely but would add terrain/invisible walls and unassisted aiming mechanics as two big turnoffs for new players. I support SP rollover.
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 1934	Posted - 2014.04.08 13:12:00 - [25] - Quote steadyhand amarr wrote: Until there is correct progression gateing they wont be able to fix the problem vets will beatup newbs for the lols just look at the battle adcam, tbh i dont think we need match making unless you have fixed variables like in chess or a shooter like halo, its basically impossable to do because players game the system. Instead in my view you simply strip out the avantatge of being vet for dramticaly reduced rewards. This kind of progression makes it clear where to go while keeping the game sandboxie as u still have full choice where to go Agreed and well said. Pub rewards should be asymmetrical based on player rating. When a system is being gamed by players the best course of action is to measure only the output variables - this is why a player's historical end-of-match ranking weighted by their allies' and opponent's historical end-of-match ratings is such a good variable. Win/loss could be a valid secondary variable but may not be neccesary. The only way to game the system is to play for reduced warpoints - not many players are going to do that(tho it would actually be a cool thing that would add to the metagame). I support SP rollover.
21yrOld Knight Proficiency V. 653	Posted - 2014.04.08 13:16:00 - [26] - Quote Lol numbers haven't changed n months and now you QQ Mike Ruan Said i was Dust Famous! Did he just talk in #'s Volunteer member of the Arkombine, but i don't want out.
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 1934	Posted - 2014.04.08 13:17:00 - [27] - Quote steadyhand amarr wrote: I agree but its not going to be ready for months if it even hits this year by which point i will have moved onto destiny as my shooter of choice, cant really see bungie getting that one wrong. 'New Eden Exiles' If nobody else takes that clan name i will. See you in Destiny, Amarrian I support SP rollover.
steadyhand amarr TeamPlayers Dirt Nap Squad. 2801	Posted - 2014.04.08 14:28:00 - [28] - Quote Kaltos Darksbane wrote: steadyhand amarr wrote: Instead in my view you simply strip out the avantatge of being vet for dramticaly reduced rewards. This kind of progression makes it clear where to go while keeping the game sandboxie as u still have full choice where to go I think vets deserve thier place of dominance. Time served (so to speak) should count for something in my book. But this is where advertising getting many more players will decrease the frequency of newbs even encountering vets as often as they do now with the current "matchmaking." Side note: Also opening up more regions for PC to give the vets space to fight over would help tremendously. Sorry to make my point clear, I feel if your a vet and you go pick on newbs you should had advantages removed and reduced rewards But if your newb who steps up your fair game :-) The big issue is having enough new people to keep the locks effective so its a system that would need revising every now and then "i dont care about you or your goals, just show me the dam isk" winner of EU squad cup GOGO power rangers
steadyhand amarr TeamPlayers Dirt Nap Squad. 2801	Posted - 2014.04.08 14:30:00 - [29] - Quote Vrain Matari wrote: steadyhand amarr wrote: I agree but its not going to be ready for months if it even hits this year by which point i will have moved onto destiny as my shooter of choice, cant really see bungie getting that one wrong. 'New Eden Exiles' If nobody else takes that clan name i will. See you in Destiny, Amarrian Hell i would use that name now and find all the other pve fans and make a pressure group corp :-P "i dont care about you or your goals, just show me the dam isk" winner of EU squad cup GOGO power rangers
Operative 1171 Aajli Bragian Order Amarr Empire 1812	Posted - 2014.04.08 17:30:00 - [30] - Quote IceShifter Childhaspawn wrote: -Find a way to play DUST that does not force a day old (hell, a year old) player to be protostomped into quitting. -Find a way to allow the elitist corps to play the way they have earned. -Find a way to allow CCP to grow the game while insulating players from rageworthy gameplay. Current way to win DUST is to chase fotm, race to proto and join the biggest crew of asshats you can find. -No fitting diversity -No new player experience -Zero play variety. (Its either stomp, or be stomped) Simple solution GÇô gear scores. Two suits GÇô a main and a secondary. You must choose these prior to the match. Matchmaking will take i to account the highest scored gear. This would also cut down on someone who's trained in a lot of things like AV to not just pull out whatever at their convenience and continually, easily counter anything the opposing team pulls out. That way there is a chance of defeat because you didn't bring the proper counter for the situation. Brick tanking a scout suit since April 2013!

Zahle Undt Bullet Cluster Lokun Listamenn 1259	Posted - 2014.04.08 18:11:00 - [31] - Quote steadyhand amarr wrote: I agree but its not going to be ready for months if it even hits this year by which point i will have moved onto destiny as my shooter of choice, cant really see bungie getting that one wrong. I can't wait for Destiny either, but that's a game that should provide about 50-100 hours of gameplay depending on how much you like it and if you want to do every last thing in the game. I know they will have PvP but I figure it to be some sort of arena thing almost that doesn't really "matter". Anyways, the biggest things Dust needs is more content, like the stuff they have promised us: player market, PvE, commander mode, larger battles, strategic placement of installations, more in depth Eve connection, etc... If we had the playerbase for it we could easily have 3 tiers for game modes. High sec, low sec, and null sec. Have payout according to security level. Null would pay the most, high sec the least. You can either go full "Carebear" and restrict gear by security level or see if the risk v. reward does that itself. You could also lock the sectors of space by SP. So lets say that you only have 5 million SP but try to go into a null sec battle it would say something like "only the most battle hardened of mercenaries dare fight for null sec corporations" . If you have 20 million SP and try to go into a high sec battle it can say something like "corporations that operate in high security space are not interested in paying the cost for veteran mercenaries to fight their small skirmishes". While such a system would invariably screw over someone like me who has a lot of SP but is short on FPS skills, it would be for the betterment of the game and retaining new players. Maybe you allow people to fight above their weight class if the choose to do so, but don't let vets fight in high sec or discourage it through such pathetically low payouts it isn't worth using proto gear. Most tankers are like sand people. They frighten easily, but will quickly return...and in greater numbers.


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