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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
9
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Posted - 2014.04.07 13:23:00 -
[1] - Quote
Seeking clarification and/or further investigation into the topic of Physical Impulse, as it relates to the living.
Aliases: "Stun Lock", "Slowed Sprint", "Sprint Bug", "Being Rooted", "Sloth Effect", "Snare Effect", "Slowdown Effect"
Symptoms: A merc's speed (rotation, sprint, movement) is often reduced by large percentage when he/she is targeted by a high RoF weapon.
By Contrast: "Ragdoll" (a.k.a. "Corpse Acrobatics") describes an altogether unrelated experience from "Stun Lock". "Sticky Terrain" (a.k.a. "Getting Hung Up") occurs consistently in known, specific locations; "Stun Lock", by comparison, can happen anywhere at anytime.
Presentation: If a merc is sprinting when "Stun Lock" is applied, his sprinting animation persists but his/her landspeed is greatly reduced. If a merc is rotating when "Stun Lock" is applied, his/her rotation speed is substantially reduced. If a merc is traveling near an environmental object (i.e. wall, railing, ledge) when "Stun Lock" is applied, he/she will tend to collide with that environmental object. If a merc is leaping when "Stun Lock" is applied, his/her forward momentum will be reduced whist airborne.
Origin: "Stun Lock's" specific origin is unclear, though its frequency of occurrence spiked last year on release of Uprising 1.7; hence primary suspect, Patch Note: "Physical Impact", be it related or not.
Frequency: The affect is regularly observed, though not consistently. Odds of replication can be heavily influenced.
Replication: The HMG induces this affect at greatest frequency, the burst-fire Combat Rifle at second greatest frequency. Biotic Scouts are at highest risk of impact. Wearing Armor Plates decreases odds of replication. Stacking KinCats increases odds of replication.
Work Around: More often than not, "Stun Lock" results in clone termination which has left us limited opportunity for experimentation. We do know that if "Stun Locked" while sprinting, one might abort Sprint Attempt 1, wait briefly, then initiate Sprint Attempt 2. The obvious catch being that "Stun Lock" is often reapplied Sprint Attempt 2, and 3, and so on.
Follow Up: Please visit the References below or swing by the Barbershop. We are eager to assist in any way possible.
References: 2013.09.11 17:31 - STUN LOCKING 2013.12.28 10:42 - Being "Rooted" AKA "Physical impulse"? 2014.03.29 16:29 - Slowdown effect is bullshitt!! 2014.03.31 03:57 - CCP: Hit-Detection, Stun-Locking and Speed Tanking 2014.04.06 06:39 - [https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=154027]Seriously, sprint bug has got to go[/url]
Haerr wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Physical Impulse only affects dead people. SOURCEI was wrong about it being called 'Physical Impulse', according to IWS it only effects dead people. He goes on to say: Iron Wolf Saber wrote:I only crawl when I spawn the wrong way.
I get zapped all the time and notice no movement or aim throw off, what you're experincing is likely a bug, please report it. SOURCEIs being rooted just the one of the Sprint Bugs / Terrain Glitches acting up? If it is it has been getting a lot worse. Not sure what to make of it, I am quite sure that I have been rooted while I was sprintingGǪ
Thank you. o7
Bang?
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Ghost Kaisar
Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad.
4066
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Posted - 2014.04.07 14:10:00 -
[2] - Quote
Doing Gods work
I got my cloak and daggers, I'm a very happy Ghost
I hack at Mach V
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Appia Vibbia
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
2032
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Posted - 2014.04.07 14:29:00 -
[3] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote: Origin: The specific origin of what we call "Stun Lock" is unclear; an increased frequency has been observed since December of 2013; hence primary suspect, 1.7 Patch Note: "Physical Impact", be it related or not.
Frequency: The affect is regularly observed, though not consistently. Odds of replication can be heavily influenced.
Replication: The HMG induces this affect at greatest frequency, the burst-fire Combat Rifle at second greatest frequency. Biotic Scouts are at highest risk of impact. Wearing Armor Plates decreases odds of replication. Stacking KinCats increases odds of replication.
Patch notes from 1.7 said they added it to all weapons, meaning that it had already existed in some but not others. Stun lock from the HMG has always existed. Or at least since the start of Chromosome in Closed-beta. It was just the very recent change of letting HMGs fire with the dispersion they were supposed to have that made this noticeable in recent times as more people started to use the weapon. The SMG had it too. It became very noticeable in when the patch that turned up Aim Assist came out. I figured that out real quick and got prof-3 asap. Pretty sure it existed on some other lower RoF weapons as well, but with the blue-shielding of the past and its lower RoF making the stun mechanic less rapid it was not as observable.
Appia Vibbia for CPM1
AppiaVibbia(at)gmail(dot)com
AKA Nappia, AKA Mathppia
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Ares 514
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
752
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Posted - 2014.04.07 14:59:00 -
[4] - Quote
The HMG is definitely the worst offender, even when I had a tanked cal assault it felt like I hit molasses when they shot me. Please fix!
...
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Llast 326
An Arkhos
2793
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Posted - 2014.04.07 16:31:00 -
[5] - Quote
Ares 514 wrote:The HMG is definitely the worst offender, even when I had a tanked cal assault it felt like I hit molasses when they shot me. Please fix! It's also very noticeable with the Laser RifleGǪ very noticeable
@ OP Excellent write up of the problem.
KRRROOOOOOM
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
21
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Posted - 2014.04.07 18:07:00 -
[6] - Quote
Damages!
Do you see now!? Look at what you've done! It was only a matter of time.
:: Le Sigh ::
Source: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=154279&find=unread
Bang?
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One Eyed King
Land of the BIind
973
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Posted - 2014.04.07 19:20:00 -
[7] - Quote
Point of clarification.
I was under the impression that "stun lock" was different from the "sprint bug".
The "stun lock" being described well in your OP.
The "sprint bug" often being referred to a circumstance in which switching or using weapons (I can't remember the specifics) while sprinting creates a slow down of the merc in question after the sprint, which is often fixed by crouching, and reportedly meleeing, the latter of which I have found ineffective. As far as I can see this itself does not have anything to do with being fired upon.
Of course I could be misreading things, as I do frequently.
RE: Stun lock. It has to go!!!
Looking for the scout hangout?
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Llast 326
An Arkhos
2795
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Posted - 2014.04.07 19:23:00 -
[8] - Quote
One Eyed King wrote:Point of clarification.
I was under the impression that "stun lock" was different from the "sprint bug".
The "stun lock" being described well in your OP.
The "sprint bug" often being referred to a circumstance in which switching or using weapons (I can't remember the specifics) while sprinting creates a slow down of the merc in question after the sprint, which is often fixed by crouching, and reportedly meleeing, the latter of which I have found ineffective. As far as I can see this itself does not have anything to do with being fired upon.
Of course I could be misreading things, as I do frequently.
RE: Stun lock. It has to go!!! "Sprint Bug" is as you describe, at least in my impression as a separate issue. Though some people reference the different bugs with different terms leading to confusion. It happens when you switch weapon or equipment and engage sprint, I have easily replicated this problem. Do not know how progression in fixing this has gone
KRRROOOOOOM
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Lightning xVx
R 0 N 1 N
572
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Posted - 2014.04.15 20:27:00 -
[9] - Quote
Glad to know that I brought this subject up MONTHS AGO, CCP ignores it (per usual), locks my topic and then it turns into a problem. This NEEDS to be addressed now, I'm tired of it 2 years in and we're still having Core Mechanic problems? C'mon man ridiculous. |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
14287
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Posted - 2014.04.20 17:14:00 -
[10] - Quote
No lab environments yet?
Well the few clues posted so far will be useful.
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist
\\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
397
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Posted - 2014.04.20 17:22:00 -
[11] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:No lab environments yet?
Well the few clues posted so far will be useful. @ IWS Tell us what you'd like to see, and we'll perform the experiment. The bug is easy enough to replicate, but it is more felt than seen, so I'm not sure how clearly it'd present via screen capture. I was kinda hoping QA would "feel" it for themselves, but we're glad to help in any way we can.
@ Brothers Any ideas on how we might "prove" or demonstrate this one?
Bang?
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
14290
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Posted - 2014.04.20 17:30:00 -
[12] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:No lab environments yet?
Well the few clues posted so far will be useful. @ IWS Tell us what you'd like to see, and we'll perform the experiment. The bug is easy enough to replicate, but it is more felt than seen, so I'm not sure how clearly it'd present via screen capture. I was kinda hoping QA would "feel" it for themselves, but we're glad to help in any way we can. @ Brothers Any ideas on how we might "prove" or demonstrate this one?
Well we have our clues; it seems speed based and certain weapons have a high proc. the problem is the test subjects are... paper thin.
Things I would like to know is there a point in the damage input the slowdown occurs? Video evidence would go eons in figuring it out. Testing with to figure out which has the highest proc rate then finding weapons that have any sort of proc rate.
Test parameters:
Make a point a to b probably two road cones.
Get a scout fit that is decent health and speed you think can help trigger the effect? this is likely going to be the caldari suit based on the clues given so far.
Have him start the run before the first cone and don't have him stop after he passes the second cone. Time only the start and end of the cone.
Once you get the unadulterated average speed. Then include weapons fire at the middle point. prefire a bit and fire enough to break shields and then cease fire. Observe the times if they're any different.
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist
\\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
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Levithunder
Butt Hurt Try Hards Primus Federation
198
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Posted - 2014.04.20 18:57:00 -
[13] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:No lab environments yet?
Well the few clues posted so far will be useful. @ IWS Tell us what you'd like to see, and we'll perform the experiment. The bug is easy enough to replicate, but it is more felt than seen, so I'm not sure how clearly it'd present via screen capture. I was kinda hoping QA would "feel" it for themselves, but we're glad to help in any way we can. @ Brothers Any ideas on how we might "prove" or demonstrate this one? Well we have our clues; it seems speed based and certain weapons have a high proc. the problem is the test subjects are... paper thin. Things I would like to know is there a point in the damage input the slowdown occurs? Video evidence would go eons in figuring it out. Testing with to figure out which has the highest proc rate then finding weapons that have any sort of proc rate. Test parameters: Make a point a to b probably two road cones. Get a scout fit that is decent health and speed you think can help trigger the effect? this is likely going to be the caldari suit based on the clues given so far. Have him start the run before the first cone and don't have him stop after he passes the second cone. Time only the start and end of the cone. Once you get the unadulterated average speed. Then include weapons fire at the middle point. prefire a bit and fire enough to break shields and then cease fire. Observe the times if they're any different. Run glitch footage:)
(-í° -£-û -í°) against my adversaries.
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One Eyed King
Land of the BIind
1123
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Posted - 2014.04.20 19:14:00 -
[14] - Quote
Its not hard to replicate, it happens every time you get shot.
Usually I die too fast while it happens, with only having about 220 ehp.
The time I noticed it the longest was while a heavy was hitting me with an HMG at a distance, and I was trying to round a corner to get away. I lasted longer because not all his shots hit me, but every step or two one would, and it was like I hit a wall.
Maybe it would be easiest to replicate with a low dps weapon, a heavy or sentinal, and some kincats for speed? That way the tester would live long enough to show the reduced speed, and the original speed would be high enough to notice a reduction.
Just my .02 isk.
Looking for the scout hangout?
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Legoose MARKII
Nos Nothi
101
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Posted - 2014.04.20 19:29:00 -
[15] - Quote
One Eyed King wrote:Its not hard to replicate, it happens every time you get shot.
Usually I die too fast while it happens, with only having about 220 ehp.
The time I noticed it the longest was while a heavy was hitting me with an HMG at a distance, and I was trying to round a corner to get away. I lasted longer because not all his shots hit me, but every step or two one would, and it was like I hit a wall.
Maybe it would be easiest to replicate with a low dps weapon, a heavy or sentinal, and some kincats for speed? That way the tester would live long enough to show the reduced speed, and the original speed would be high enough to notice a reduction.
Just my .02 isk. If you want to do it with a quickish suit with a large HP pool maybe try a dual kincat minmando? Or hybrid tank a gal scout with armor and kincats. This would give you enough HP and decent speed to really see a difference in run times if tested like IWS suggested.
Who is LeGoose anyway?
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Appia Vibbia
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
2178
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Posted - 2014.04.20 19:38:00 -
[16] - Quote
If anyone has a video capture device I'd be glad to help. I've got plenty of different suit I can use to test this out with or weapons to show the effects of it with.
Appia Vibbia for CPM1
AppiaVibbia(at)gmail(dot)com
AKA Nappia, AKA Mathppia
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
408
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Posted - 2014.04.20 19:41:00 -
[17] - Quote
Legoose MARKII wrote:One Eyed King wrote:Its not hard to replicate, it happens every time you get shot.
Usually I die too fast while it happens, with only having about 220 ehp.
The time I noticed it the longest was while a heavy was hitting me with an HMG at a distance, and I was trying to round a corner to get away. I lasted longer because not all his shots hit me, but every step or two one would, and it was like I hit a wall.
Maybe it would be easiest to replicate with a low dps weapon, a heavy or sentinal, and some kincats for speed? That way the tester would live long enough to show the reduced speed, and the original speed would be high enough to notice a reduction.
Just my .02 isk. If you want to do it with a quickish suit with a large HP pool maybe try a dual kincat minmando? Or hybrid tank a gal scout with armor and kincats. This would give you enough HP and decent speed to really see a difference in run times if tested like IWS suggested.
Runner: * CalScout, 4 Shield Extenders, 2 KinCats * Runs in a straight line from Point A to Point B.
Shooter (filming): * Heavy + Basic / Militia HMG * Aims at midpoint (A, B) , sustains fire
Runner will be visibly slowed while passing through Shooter's bullet stream. Runner should live long enough for Shooter to capture his slowdown. If killed too quickly, Shooter should move backward until such time that he no longer insta-gibs Runner.
Alternatively, Shooter (filming) could use a Laser Rifle. It seems to "stun lock" as reliably as the HMG.
Bang?
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Ghost Kaisar
Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad.
4312
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Posted - 2014.04.20 21:56:00 -
[18] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:No lab environments yet?
Well the few clues posted so far will be useful. @ IWS Tell us what you'd like to see, and we'll perform the experiment. The bug is easy enough to replicate, but it is more felt than seen, so I'm not sure how clearly it'd present via screen capture. I was kinda hoping QA would "feel" it for themselves, but we're glad to help in any way we can. @ Brothers Any ideas on how we might "prove" or demonstrate this one? Well we have our clues; it seems speed based and certain weapons have a high proc. the problem is the test subjects are... paper thin. Things I would like to know is there a point in the damage input the slowdown occurs? Video evidence would go eons in figuring it out. Testing with to figure out which has the highest proc rate then finding weapons that have any sort of proc rate. Test parameters: Make a point a to b probably two road cones. Get a scout fit that is decent health and speed you think can help trigger the effect? this is likely going to be the caldari suit based on the clues given so far. Have him start the run before the first cone and don't have him stop after he passes the second cone. Time only the start and end of the cone. Once you get the unadulterated average speed. Then include weapons fire at the middle point. prefire a bit and fire enough to break shields and then cease fire. Observe the times if they're any different.
How about CCP makes a test server, gives a scout Invulnerability, and then have him race another scout while getting shot at by 3 HMG's.
You will find out very quickly if this is real or not.
You guys really need a test server or something. Just get 4 people together and spend an hour or two in that server every week and just test to see if these bugs happen.
I got my cloak and daggers, I'm a very happy Ghost
I hack at Mach V
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IgniteableAura
Ancient Exiles. Dirt Nap Squad.
918
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Posted - 2014.04.21 00:01:00 -
[19] - Quote
You don't even need a server. Just allow us to Q into "other contracts" and choose a planet. That would allow squads of people to test stuff out. Don't allow any progression or gear changes in these matches. Make it unlimited clones/MCC.
Agree with it shouldn't be something we need to "provide" evidence for, its just crazy that CCP can't get into a game and test it themselves. They have dev powers, use that to your advantage.
I have a cap card and can be the photographer. Lets just get this over with.
Youtube
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Vrain Matari
Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic
1989
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Posted - 2014.04.21 12:14:00 -
[20] - Quote
Does anybody have an archive of patch notes goin back to beta? Because as far as stunlocking goes, the answer is in there. Why the hell ar we feild testing for a known feature?
I support SP rollover.
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
449
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Posted - 2014.04.21 12:57:00 -
[21] - Quote
Vrain Matari wrote:Does anybody have an archive of patch notes goin back to beta? Because as far as stunlocking goes, the answer is in there. Why the hell ar we feild testing for a known feature?
P.S. Lingo/Nomencalture:
'Physical Impulse' = ragdoll after clone is incapacitated.
'Slowdown/Stunlocking' = reduction of sprint/rotation speed due to being hit by incoming fire.
'Sprint Bug' = Inability to sprint immediately after animations/weapon swaps(i'm not 100% on the exact trigger for this). We're on the same page nomenclature-wise. Thanks though.
We're presently interested in Stun Lock because:
1) It is a royal pain-in-the-arse and we'd like to see it fixed. 2) It appears to be happening more frequently than before. 3) IWS says the issue is likely not intended behavior. 4) CCP has yet to weigh in on the matter.
Bang?
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
449
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Posted - 2014.04.21 13:00:00 -
[22] - Quote
Another related thread:
Nothing is more OP than the HMG slowing you down Author: Cat Merc Posted: 2014.04.21 10:45
Quote:[HMG Heavies] you have to run when they see you and get too close, but you can't run, no, you slow down to crawl speed as you try to escape
Quote:Running away from the HMG is like in those horror films when you see a girl slowly crawling away and suddenly being pulled back to her death.
Quote:As an HMG user I can agree that the quicksand is very bad news for medium suits, probably to the point of being over done.
Bang?
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IgniteableAura
Ancient Exiles. Dirt Nap Squad.
922
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Posted - 2014.04.21 13:01:00 -
[23] - Quote
All you have to do is use the search function https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=search&search=Patch+Notes&forumID=728&devbadge=1
Tonight we test? Usual time? between 1 and 3? Feeding of **** will have to wait until we are finished.
PS, I didn't even know the patch pre chrome was called replication...sad those notes are "hidden"
Youtube
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
449
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Posted - 2014.04.21 13:06:00 -
[24] - Quote
Sounds good! 1-3 CST. I'll post up in the Barbershop to see if we can get more hands on this.
Bang?
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
449
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Posted - 2014.04.21 13:07:00 -
[25] - Quote
Oops.
Bang?
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IgniteableAura
Ancient Exiles. Dirt Nap Squad.
925
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Posted - 2014.04.21 13:19:00 -
[26] - Quote
If anyone really cares...
Replication - Patch notes hidden E3 update - https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=147625#post147625 Precursor - https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=240635#post240635 Chromosome - https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=431780#post431780 Uprising 1.0/1.2 - https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=740480#post740480 Uprising 1.3 - https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1093643#post1093643 Uprising 1.4 - https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1210968#post1210968 Uprising 1.5 - https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1341193#post1341193 Uprising 1.6 - https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1440154#post1440154 Uprising 1.7 - https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1562644#post1562644 Uprising 1.8 - https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1948878#post1948878
I think its funny we haven't had a new "patch name" for a loooooooooooong time.
Youtube
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Appia Vibbia
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
2197
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Posted - 2014.04.21 13:20:00 -
[27] - Quote
I'm available.
Appia Vibbia for CPM1
AppiaVibbia(at)gmail(dot)com
AKA Nappia, AKA Mathppia
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Vrain Matari
Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic
1990
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Posted - 2014.04.21 13:22:00 -
[28] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Vrain Matari wrote:Does anybody have an archive of patch notes goin back to beta? Because as far as stunlocking goes, the answer is in there. Why the hell ar we feild testing for a known feature?
P.S. Lingo/Nomencalture:
'Physical Impulse' = ragdoll after clone is incapacitated.
'Slowdown/Stunlocking' = reduction of sprint/rotation speed due to being hit by incoming fire.
'Sprint Bug' = Inability to sprint immediately after animations/weapon swaps(i'm not 100% on the exact trigger for this). We're on the same page nomenclature-wise. Thanks though. We're presently interested in Stun Lock because: 1) It is a royal pain-in-the-arse and we'd like to see it fixed. 2) It appears to be happening more frequently than before. 3) IWS says the issue is likely not intended behavior. 4) CCP has yet to weigh in on the matter. Oh I'm with you. The day the patch notes for this came out in beta i had some very unkind words for CCP. Eventually got tired of absolutely no response from them and dropped it.
Glad to see peeps are paying attention again, imo this has cost us a lot of players over the past year+.
I support SP rollover.
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Vrain Matari
Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic
1991
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Posted - 2014.04.21 22:45:00 -
[29] - Quote
From Precursor:
"Added movement slowdown on weapon impact", so why the hell are we testing for this? It's CCP's code!
Thanks IgniteableAura, you are one rockin' archivist!
I support SP rollover.
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IgniteableAura
Ancient Exiles. Dirt Nap Squad.
936
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Posted - 2014.04.22 05:09:00 -
[30] - Quote
Not very promising. I think stun lock is more than getting hit with a weapon. I can see and have recorded evidence of "physical impact" but I think the slowdown is not as bad. Or very difficult to replicate. Secondly. I think stun lock is more frequent around objects. I wonder if for some reason it magnetizes you. I feel that's usually my case.
More testing required
Youtube
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