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Vrain Matari
Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic
1994
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Posted - 2014.04.22 12:43:00 -
[31] - Quote
IgniteableAura wrote:Not very promising. I think stun lock is more than getting hit with a weapon. I can see and have recorded evidence of "physical impact" but I think the slowdown is not as bad. Or very difficult to replicate. Secondly. I think stun lock is more frequent around objects. I wonder if for some reason it magnetizes you. I feel that's usually my case.
More testing required Interesting. Thanks for the info. This would be a fourth bug/factor affecting merc speed, if you're right. Sheesh CCP.
If something changed with 'physical impact' it was in the same patch that released the CRs, is my best guess.
I support SP rollover.
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
493
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Posted - 2014.04.22 15:12:00 -
[32] - Quote
IgniteableAura wrote:Not very promising. More testing required
First Experiment
I ran two setups ... GK.0, Cmp KinCats (4), Cmp Shields (2) CK.0, Cmp KinCats (2), Cmp Shields (4)
Iggy ran a Basic HMG. Dubstep ran a Boundless HMG. Iggy and Dubstep positioned themselves roughly 30 meters apart, facing one another.
I sprinted through the point between them, crossing their bullet streams. Never once was I ensnared. D*mnit.
So I rather than running perpendicular through the bullet stream, I ran fly-by and slant patterns. Still, not once was I ensnared.
Tested vs Shield. Test vs Armor. Switched suits to the slower Caldari. No dice. No matter what we tried. No Stun Lock.
So lastly, I ran straight at them and leaped, as if to land a charged NK attack. They would fire, I would die, but never once was I Stun Locked.
Second Experiment
Magnus joined the experiment as our second "Runner", wearing a fit with 3 Complex Kincats. I ran the same fits as before. Iggy swapped HMG for Laser Rifle and Combat Rifle. Dubstep downgraded his Boundless to Basic HMG.
No matter what we tried, we couldn't get Stun Lock to kick in, though we did discover that the Combat Rifle consistently induced a slight Slow Down. Most Scouts have experienced the "Running in Glue" effect coined Stun Lock; this is the effect we were try to reproduce. The Burst Combat Rifle absolutely and consistently made sprint choppy -- as if the system hesitated while registering the bullet strikes -- but at no point did our HMG, Laser or Combat Rifles reproduce the "Running in Glue" effect.
Conclusions
Hypothesis:
Stun Lock is "built in" to the HMG. REJECTED
Observations: * Stun Lock cannot be reproduced on demand. * Burst CR adds choppiness to a target's stride but doesn't ensnare the target (like Stun Lock). * The HMG and Laser Rifle can do the same, though less reliably.
Alternative Hypothesis: * Stun Lock is likely not an intentional mechanic (otherwise it'd be easy to reproduce). * Stun Lock may be related to lag / latency or require lots of activity in a given area. * Stun Lock may be more likely to occur in enclosed areas than out in the open.
Bang?
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Ares 514
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
783
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Posted - 2014.04.22 16:17:00 -
[33] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:IgniteableAura wrote:Not very promising. More testing required
First Experiment
I ran two setups ... GK.0, Cmp KinCats (4), Cmp Shields (2) CK.0, Cmp KinCats (2), Cmp Shields (4) Iggy ran a Basic HMG. Dubstep ran a Boundless HMG. Iggy and Dubstep positioned themselves roughly 30 meters apart, facing one another. I sprinted through the point between them, crossing their bullet streams. Never once was I ensnared. D*mnit. Rather than running perpendicular through the bullet stream, I ran fly-by and slant patterns. Still, not once was I ensnared. Tested vs Shield. Test vs Armor. Switched suits to the slower Caldari. No dice. No Stun Lock. Lastly, I ran straight at them and leaped, as if to land a charged NK attack. They would fire, I would die, but I was not Stun Locked mid air.
Second Experiment
Magnus joined the experiment as our second "Runner", wearing a fit with 3 Complex Kincats. I ran the same fits as before. Iggy swapped HMG for Laser Rifle and Combat Rifle. Dubstep downgraded his Boundless to Basic HMG. Most Scouts have experienced the "Running in Glue" effect coined Stun Lock; this is the effect we were trying to reproduce. No matter what we tried, we couldn't get Stun Lock to kick in, though we did discover that the CR induced a slight Slow Down. The Burst Combat Rifle consistently made sprint choppy -- as if the system hesitated while registering the bullet strikes -- but at no point did our HMG, Laser or Combat Rifles reproduce the "Running in Glue" effect.
Conclusions
Hypothesis: Stun Lock is "built in" to the HMG. REJECTED Observations: * Stun Lock cannot be reproduced on demand. * Burst CR adds choppiness to a target's stride but doesn't ensnare the target (=/= Stun Lock). * The HMG and Laser Rifle can do the same, though less reliably (=/= Stun Lock). Alternative Hypothesis: * Stun Lock is likely not an intentional mechanic, otherwise it would be easy to reproduce. * Stun Lock may be related to lag / latency or require lots of activity in a given area. * Stun Lock may be more likely to occur in enclosed spaces than out in the open.
Good tests. I find that stun lock happens to me when i'm closer to the enemy. So when i come in to SG the heavy and he opens up I just freeze, sometimes on the ground sometimes mid jump as i'm trying to get behind cover or past him. I would suggest trying it within 5meters of the HMG.
I'm surprised you didn't reproduce it since it seems to happen to me a lot, although I like the concept that this might not be intentional which implies one day (Soon) it could be fixed.
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Ares 514
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
783
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Posted - 2014.04.22 16:18:00 -
[34] - Quote
Quick addition, I usually run my advanced G scout and it has one kin cat with one basic armour plate and another non-speed mod. It also only has one complex shield extender.
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mollerz
3314
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Posted - 2014.04.22 19:30:00 -
[35] - Quote
I have an alt with an HMG, and when it happens, it is very apparent. You actually do see people freeze in place as you are laying into them.
What time of day are you guys doing this? What server? What match type?
You gotta hustle if you wanna make a dolla
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
510
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Posted - 2014.04.22 19:32:00 -
[36] - Quote
We ran the tests last night on Oceania at around 7PM CST. Amarr / Minmatar Faction Warfare.
Strangely, there were full teams on both sides.
Bang?
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One Eyed King
Land of the BIind
1134
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Posted - 2014.04.22 19:44:00 -
[37] - Quote
Do you think being on a different server than normal might be affecting results?
I am just throwing out ideas, as I really have no clue as to why this couldn't be easily replicated.
Looking for the scout hangout?
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mollerz
3314
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Posted - 2014.04.22 20:16:00 -
[38] - Quote
Did you guys test it on a minja suit?
7PM CST is around the busiest time.... hmm. Oh well. Just another problem CCP won't be able to figure out.
You gotta hustle if you wanna make a dolla
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
513
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Posted - 2014.04.22 20:31:00 -
[39] - Quote
mollerz wrote:Did you guys test it on a minja suit?
7PM CST is around the busiest time.... hmm. Oh well. Just another problem CCP won't be able to figure out.
Negative. Only tested Caldari and Gallente. Good news is that it doesn't appear to be intentional.
Bang?
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J0LLY R0G3R
Dirt Nap Squad.
766
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Posted - 2014.04.25 20:47:00 -
[40] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:No lab environments yet?
Well the few clues posted so far will be useful. @ IWS Tell us what you'd like to see, and we'll perform the experiment. The bug is easy enough to replicate, but it is more felt than seen, so I'm not sure how clearly it'd present via screen capture. I was kinda hoping QA would "feel" it for themselves, but we're glad to help in any way we can. @ Brothers Any ideas on how we might "prove" or demonstrate this one? Well we have our clues; it seems speed based and certain weapons have a high proc. the problem is the test subjects are... paper thin. Things I would like to know is there a point in the damage input the slowdown occurs? Video evidence would go eons in figuring it out. Testing with to figure out which has the highest proc rate then finding weapons that have any sort of proc rate. Test parameters: Make a point a to b probably two road cones. Get a scout fit that is decent health and speed you think can help trigger the effect? this is likely going to be the caldari suit based on the clues given so far. Have him start the run before the first cone and don't have him stop after he passes the second cone. Time only the start and end of the cone. Once you get the unadulterated average speed. Then include weapons fire at the middle point. prefire a bit and fire enough to break shields and then cease fire. Observe the times if they're any different.
Has anyone done this yet???? All I need is some dam road cones!
YouTube
Twitch
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
14346
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Posted - 2014.04.26 14:27:00 -
[41] - Quote
Been talking to the developers its being looked into on how to adjust the situation.
Couple things though;
It's not a bug. Yell at me for the confusion and don't go kill a dev. I'll see if I can get permission to post the reason why it is not a bug. Some of you smart folks will figure it out anyways.
Secondly I don't see it being in the game in the long run it will get removed eventually.
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist
\\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
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IgniteableAura
Ancient Exiles. Dirt Nap Squad.
974
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Posted - 2014.04.28 15:55:00 -
[42] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Been talking to the developers its being looked into on how to adjust the situation.
Couple things though;
It's not a bug. Yell at me for the confusion and don't go kill a dev. I'll see if I can get permission to post the reason why it is not a bug. Some of you smart folks will figure it out anyways.
Secondly I don't see it being in the game in the long run it will get removed eventually.
I'm not smart Lay it on me
Youtube
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Ares 514
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
797
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Posted - 2014.04.28 16:26:00 -
[43] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Been talking to the developers its being looked into on how to adjust the situation.
Couple things though;
It's not a bug. Yell at me for the confusion and don't go kill a dev. I'll see if I can get permission to post the reason why it is not a bug. Some of you smart folks will figure it out anyways.
Secondly I don't see it being in the game in the long run it will get removed eventually.
Nooooooooooo. So it is their hit detection fix. So ugly. As we all know this won't be going away anytime soon then :(
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
14351
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Posted - 2014.04.28 16:29:00 -
[44] - Quote
IgniteableAura wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Been talking to the developers its being looked into on how to adjust the situation.
Couple things though;
It's not a bug. Yell at me for the confusion and don't go kill a dev. I'll see if I can get permission to post the reason why it is not a bug. Some of you smart folks will figure it out anyways.
Secondly I don't see it being in the game in the long run it will get removed eventually. I'm not smart Lay it on me
But I like my skin where it is.
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist
\\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
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Awry Barux
Ametat Security Amarr Empire
2264
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Posted - 2014.04.28 18:02:00 -
[45] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Been talking to the developers its being looked into on how to adjust the situation.
Couple things though;
It's not a bug. Yell at me for the confusion and don't go kill a dev. I'll see if I can get permission to post the reason why it is not a bug. Some of you smart folks will figure it out anyways.
Secondly I don't see it being in the game in the long run it will get removed eventually. Good to know at least that it's real and not just something we're perceiving. Thanks for all your work, IWS. Please do try to get us that official reason, I'd like to hear it straight from the horse's mouth.
That said- I smell a hack-y hit detection fix. Tried lots of ways to improve it, threw up their hands because nothing worked, and stuck this one in.
Nerdier than thou
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One Eyed King
Land of the BIind
1189
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Posted - 2014.04.29 02:53:00 -
[46] - Quote
Looking for the scout hangout?
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