DUST Search - The biggest flaw of nova knifes

The dark cloud wrote:

Ive specced into (proto) nova knifes a while ago and they are working fine so far, however they still are flawed because you cant sprint and charge the things at the same time. This makes it really difficult to stab people who are walking or running away from you. Even as a scout i have problems to catch up to assaults from behind. The only situations where you can knife some 1 is when they are standing still or turning around a corner bumping into you while you charge the knifes.

Looking on the damage i think they are balanced cause you literally have to give your victim a hug to do any damage at all. Applying damage with nova knifes is aswell difficult if you dont charge them and sprint towards your victim. Simply because once you start stabbing you stop sprinting which is bad espacially if you want to keep up with some 1.

Another issue is in close quarters nova knifes should have much more aim assist. This sounds silly but people who used them know when your target is moving left/right or even backwards they can dodge your knifes (backwards in terms of walking past you while they shot some 1 else). Ironically back in the closed beta there was a bug which allowed you to sprint with them. But CCP fixed that for some odd reason.

So what i would like to see getting changed on nova knifes is:
-sprinting while charging
-sprinting should not be stopped by stabbing
-nova knifes should get high "aim assist" to help in close quarters (because of their extreme short range)

Pages: 1 2 :: [one page]

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
The dark cloud The Rainbow Effect Negative-Feedback 2695	Posted - 2014.04.06 23:59:00 - [1] - Quote Ive specced into (proto) nova knifes a while ago and they are working fine so far, however they still are flawed because you cant sprint and charge the things at the same time. This makes it really difficult to stab people who are walking or running away from you. Even as a scout i have problems to catch up to assaults from behind. The only situations where you can knife some 1 is when they are standing still or turning around a corner bumping into you while you charge the knifes. Looking on the damage i think they are balanced cause you literally have to give your victim a hug to do any damage at all. Applying damage with nova knifes is aswell difficult if you dont charge them and sprint towards your victim. Simply because once you start stabbing you stop sprinting which is bad espacially if you want to keep up with some 1. Another issue is in close quarters nova knifes should have much more aim assist. This sounds silly but people who used them know when your target is moving left/right or even backwards they can dodge your knifes (backwards in terms of walking past you while they shot some 1 else). Ironically back in the closed beta there was a bug which allowed you to sprint with them. But CCP fixed that for some odd reason. So what i would like to see getting changed on nova knifes is: -sprinting while charging -sprinting should not be stopped by stabbing -nova knifes should get high "aim assist" to help in close quarters (because of their extreme short range) I shall show you a world, a world which you cant imagine, a world full off butthurt n00bs at the other end of my gun
noob cavman Escrow Removal and Acquisition Dirt Nap Squad. 1143	Posted - 2014.04.07 00:00:00 - [2] - Quote Major flaw is that damn back peddling speed. I just swap to my smg at that point. I want to be a caveman! Ccp: DENIED YOU DRUNK Gö+GöüGö+ n+¦pâ+(`-ö´)n+ën+¦ Gö+GöüGö+ Jollys quirky inconsistent sidekick. dem spandex yo
Sourdough Muffins Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 14	Posted - 2014.04.07 00:13:00 - [3] - Quote Knives... Knife is singular while knives are plural.
MrShooter01 Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 643	Posted - 2014.04.07 00:41:00 - [4] - Quote noob cavman wrote: Major flaw is that damn back peddling speed. I just swap to my smg at that point. I would love to see a game where the backpedaling and strafing bullshit FPS gamers take for granted instead results in the player tripping and falling flat on their ass and becoming an easy kill
Jackof All-Trades The Black Renaissance 555	Posted - 2014.04.07 00:43:00 - [5] - Quote If they're running in a straight line, align your own vector to theirs and jump and charge at the same time. Solves the issue and you get your knife kill. "Pulvis et umbra sums." We are but dust and shadow GÇò Horace, The Odes of Horace \ Omni-Specialist / Focus: Gallente
DEZKA DIABLO THE FOOTCLAN 598	Posted - 2014.04.07 00:55:00 - [6] - Quote I've been using knives since beta and honestly it's a good thing they are how they are. You think cloaked shotgun scouts are getting QQ ; just imagine FTOM cloaked sprint charge knifers! We all wanted it before the cloak but now that it's here it's better NK stay as is. Honestly if you want to kill with them a lot , don't chase the back or front, use a stamina mod and loop from behind in a semi circle so you attack the shoulder, that way if they go forward or backward you get both blades, if you loop left and they strafe left they walk into you, they strafe right, you walk into them. No escape that way. My remotes got NERFED cuz you whine like a B!+Gé¼[-]!
Bormir1r Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad. 215	Posted - 2014.04.07 00:57:00 - [7] - Quote The dark cloud wrote: Ive specced into (proto) nova knifes a while ago and they are working fine so far, however they still are flawed because you cant sprint and charge the things at the same time. This makes it really difficult to stab people who are walking or running away from you. Even as a scout i have problems to catch up to assaults from behind. The only situations where you can knife some 1 is when they are standing still or turning around a corner bumping into you while you charge the knifes. Looking on the damage i think they are balanced cause you literally have to give your victim a hug to do any damage at all. Applying damage with nova knifes is aswell difficult if you dont charge them and sprint towards your victim. Simply because once you start stabbing you stop sprinting which is bad espacially if you want to keep up with some 1. Another issue is in close quarters nova knifes should have much more aim assist. This sounds silly but people who used them know when your target is moving left/right or even backwards they can dodge your knifes (backwards in terms of walking past you while they shot some 1 else). Ironically back in the closed beta there was a bug which allowed you to sprint with them. But CCP fixed that for some odd reason. So what i would like to see getting changed on nova knifes is: -sprinting while charging -sprinting should not be stopped by stabbing -nova knifes should get high "aim assist" to help in close quarters (because of their extreme short range) I would really use NK more often if I could charge while sprinting, and it would make it so much more viable on the Minmatar Scout because we are speed beasts. If CCP did just that change, I would be very satisfied with the Min. Scout. "One does not simply" look for a scout, it looks for you.
COVERT SUBTERFUGE PSU GHOST SYNDICATE DARKSTAR ARMY 866	Posted - 2014.04.07 01:17:00 - [8] - Quote Sourdough Muffins wrote: Knives... Knife is singular while knives are plural. 'Knives is plural'. You're talking about a single word , not multiple 'knives'. Proud Minmatar scout - Republic Merc 7/10 Immune to bitter/jaded vet syndrome Alt of THE GREY CARDINAL - eWar Merc
Scheneighnay McBob Nova Corps Marines Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 4683	Posted - 2014.04.07 01:21:00 - [9] - Quote There's a reason why the fastest suit in the game has the knife bonus. I'm from the weird side of the internet
Jaster J F.T.U. IMMORTAL REGIME 28	Posted - 2014.04.07 01:21:00 - [10] - Quote Im not sure how i would react to it, but i think it would be really cool from the knifers point of view so you get a plus 1 :D be warned however...the forum armys QQ will block out the sun...

Cyrius Li-Moody 0uter.Heaven 4581	Posted - 2014.04.07 01:23:00 - [11] - Quote Sprinting while charged would be OP as hell. They just need to not interrupt your sprint while you tap R1. Youtuber. Your friendly neighborhood whiskey-fueled merc.
Arirana Ancient Exiles. Dirt Nap Squad. 497	Posted - 2014.04.07 01:25:00 - [12] - Quote It makes as much sense as not being able to walk and chew gum at the same time. I suspect even if they added the ability to charge them while sprinting, the animation of stabbing your victim will take too long to carry out in most cases to give them time to jump and nullify hit detection. If you are not on the same level as your opponent 9 times out of 10 your knives will not do damage. I noticed this from swiping at opponents above me, and below me after I attempted to stab them out of a LAV or Assassin's Creed style execute them with a jump stab. As well as when they jump away. I figured this could be fixed by extended the range when looking down or up, but not forward. I have an ego?! O.O The scales have fallen from my eyes.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 2	Posted - 2014.04.07 01:31:00 - [13] - Quote Forward movement speed should exceed Lateral. Lateral movement speed should exceed Backward. This is the primary flaw with Knives. The next biggest flaw, Arirana pointed out ... Someone trying to shank you? Bunny hop for the win! As for Sprint + Charge, I'm afraid that'd be ridiculous. It'd have even been ridiculous before cloak. Promise. Bang?
negative49er Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 563	Posted - 2014.04.07 01:40:00 - [14] - Quote Scheneighnay McBob wrote: There's a reason why the fastest suit in the game has the knife bonus. Not really the minmatar scout is only a little bit faster (unnoticeable to me) and have both low ehp and CPU and pg I want CCP to make the minmatar suit something else special beside stamina Dedicated Shotgun Scout and professional backstabber
Garth Mandra The Southern Legion League of Infamy 372	Posted - 2014.04.07 02:02:00 - [15] - Quote To be fair the bug that let you run with charged knives also let you run with a charged forge gun. If it had been available at the time you'd have been able to run with a charged ScR too.
Arirana Ancient Exiles. Dirt Nap Squad. 498	Posted - 2014.04.07 02:06:00 - [16] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Forward movement speed should exceed Lateral. Lateral movement speed should exceed Backward. This is the primary flaw with Knives. The next biggest flaw, Arirana points out ... Someone trying to shank you? Bunny hop for the win! As for Sprint + Charge, I'm afraid that'd be ridiculous. It would've been OP even before the cloak. Promise. It would be OP if bunny hopping or backpedaling didn't screw hit detection. What you need to remember is that though you would be able to charge it while sprinting, you still need to stop sprinting to take your swipes, which has a bit of a delay. You gotta retract your arms before your extend with your knives, all of which takes place when you initiate the animation, which you need to stop sprinting to do. Retracting your arms would take at least half a second on top of the delay between when you stop sprinting and when you initiate the animation in the first place. This would give the average brain with a .33 reaction time to stimuli more than enough time to tap their thumb down on the x button when they see a minja within hug range stop sprinting. If nova knives can charge up while the user is sprinting, what about other charge up weapons that currently need to stop sprinting such as the SCR, forge gun, and any of the charge-to-fire weapons, etc.? If CCP is gonna do anything to knives it should be to fix the bunny hop = win phenomenon. Even after that is fixed adding the option to lunge (LUNGE, as in as fast as sprinting, NOT the equivalent of teleporting, please no MW2 repeat) while swiping at someone instead of fast walking would make a better buff than charging while sprinting. I have an ego?! O.O The scales have fallen from my eyes.
1st Lieutenant Tiberius 0uter.Heaven 1491	Posted - 2014.04.07 02:16:00 - [17] - Quote No to aim assist its a skill weapon, sprint charge would be nice but honestly if you make use of the fact that you do a rightward swipe with the left hand and a stab from th right hand taking down runners is as easy as running side by side to them, so long as you're not a brick tanked scout The Sinwarden
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 7831	Posted - 2014.04.07 02:43:00 - [18] - Quote The sprint-charge bit is something I have been supportive about for a long time, but I'm not sure about the aim-assist part that you suggested. The real issue with nova knives in close-quarter situations is the tunnel vision. Instead of implementing an aim-assist or lunge feature, it's better to enable the user to manually and dynamically adjust the field of view either through the setting menu or through the L1 button we commonly know as the aim-down-sight button. Either way will help with the tunnel vision that plagues knife users in CQC situations. Dedicated Scout // Ninja Knifer Everything I know about the Caldari I learned at Nouvelle Rouvenor
Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1386	Posted - 2014.04.07 02:53:00 - [19] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: The sprint-charge bit is something I have been supportive about for a long time, but I'm not sure about the aim-assist part that you suggested. The real issue with nova knives in close-quarter situations is the tunnel vision. Instead of implementing an aim-assist or lunge feature, it's better to enable the user to manually and dynamically adjust the field of view either through the setting menu or through the L1 button we commonly know as the aim-down-sight button. Either way will help with the tunnel vision that plagues knife users in CQC situations. True. I find that when trying to knife someone I often loose tracking of them as they dodge my attack. A wider field of view option would counter this without making the weapon OP in any way. Fun > Realism
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 7834	Posted - 2014.04.07 02:55:00 - [20] - Quote Mobius Kaethis wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: The sprint-charge bit is something I have been supportive about for a long time, but I'm not sure about the aim-assist part that you suggested. The real issue with nova knives in close-quarter situations is the tunnel vision. Instead of implementing an aim-assist or lunge feature, it's better to enable the user to manually and dynamically adjust the field of view either through the setting menu or through the L1 button we commonly know as the aim-down-sight button. Either way will help with the tunnel vision that plagues knife users in CQC situations. True. I find that when trying to knife someone I often loose tracking of them as they dodge my attack. A wider field of view option would counter this without making the weapon OP in any way. Exactly. Dedicated Scout // Ninja Knifer Everything I know about the Caldari I learned at Nouvelle Rouvenor

Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p TRA1LBLAZERS 1191	Posted - 2014.04.07 03:00:00 - [21] - Quote Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: Sprinting while charged would be OP as hell. They just need to not interrupt your sprint while you tap R1. this Kills- Archduke Ferdinand Balance!
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 4	Posted - 2014.04.07 03:18:00 - [22] - Quote Mobius Kaethis wrote: A wider field of view option would ... Make flanking much more difficult? Bang?
IRON PATRIOT 1 Pradox One 142	Posted - 2014.04.07 03:20:00 - [23] - Quote The dark cloud wrote: Ive specced into (proto) nova knifes a while ago and they are working fine so far, however they still are flawed because you cant sprint and charge the things at the same time. This makes it really difficult to stab people who are walking or running away from you. Even as a scout i have problems to catch up to assaults from behind. The only situations where you can knife some 1 is when they are standing still or turning around a corner bumping into you while you charge the knifes. Looking on the damage i think they are balanced cause you literally have to give your victim a hug to do any damage at all. Applying damage with nova knifes is aswell difficult if you dont charge them and sprint towards your victim. Simply because once you start stabbing you stop sprinting which is bad espacially if you want to keep up with some 1. Another issue is in close quarters nova knifes should have much more aim assist. This sounds silly but people who used them know when your target is moving left/right or even backwards they can dodge your knifes (backwards in terms of walking past you while they shot some 1 else). Ironically back in the closed beta there was a bug which allowed you to sprint with them. But CCP fixed that for some odd reason. So what i would like to see getting changed on nova knifes is: -sprinting while charging -sprinting should not be stopped by stabbing -nova knifes should get high "aim assist" to help in close quarters (because of their extreme short range) Don't see them doing this anytime soon due to the fact that if they did allow you to run and charge knives than they would have to allow that mechanic for every other chrged weapon ex. (Scr, Forge Gun, ion pistol). Imagine guys running around a corner and putting a charged scr round in your face. There has to be a drawback to the high alpha and that is limited mobility. Also the sprint delay is necessary between shots. Knives are a weapon just like guns you can't have someone running through a crowd of people spamming r1 hoping he gets a kill. You have to give others a chance to react to the situation. A good example would be Arianna and his abuse of the melee glitch, the reason why it was so OP was because he didn't need to stop sprinting while attacking. Once you were in his effective range there was little to know chance of you escaping. Because you couldn't back pedal faster or out strafe him due to the fact that he was moving faster than you.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 7835	Posted - 2014.04.07 03:20:00 - [24] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Mobius Kaethis wrote: A wider field of view option would ... Make flanking much more difficult? At the expense of being able to see effectively at distance. I don't see a problem with this since a wider view technically has a drawback to the user. Dedicated Scout // Ninja Knifer Everything I know about the Caldari I learned at Nouvelle Rouvenor
Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1390	Posted - 2014.04.08 04:22:00 - [25] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Mobius Kaethis wrote: A wider field of view option would ... Make flanking much more difficult? At the expense of being able to see effectively at distance. I don't see a problem with this since a wider view technically has a drawback to the user. Plus if you make your FoV too wide (say 350-¦) you end up feeling like you are playing on psycodellic mushrooms. The FoV option being player determined just gives us each more room to make the game fit our personal play style. Fun > Realism
boba's fetta Dead Man's Game 512	Posted - 2014.04.08 04:26:00 - [26] - Quote COVERT SUBTERFUGE wrote: Sourdough Muffins wrote: Knives... Knife is singular while knives are plural. 'Knives is plural'. You're talking about a single word , not multiple 'knives'. but there are two knives therefore he is correct and you are wrong.. skills are not being applied till 30 secs after spawn fixes before nerfs thank you.
Abe Foster BlackWater Liquidations INTERGALACTIC WARPIGS 35	Posted - 2014.04.08 22:18:00 - [27] - Quote I agree, the nova knives NEED a buff by either letting you sprint and charge or by giving you a reasonable speed boost like in Counter-strike Global Offensive (if any of you have ever played that game). in that game you get a noticeable speed boost while holding a knife. COME ON!!! CCP WHY WON'T YOU HELP A GUY WHO JUST WANTS TO CUT PEOPLE UP!!!!.....just a little bit. Also I cannot tell you how many times i have tried to run up and it some one when we both end up passing each other and we both have to turn around. My name is not related to Jane Foster who is Thor's girl friend. And it is just a coincidence that we are both Logi's.
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 1942	Posted - 2014.04.08 22:23:00 - [28] - Quote Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: Sprinting while charged would be OP as hell. They just need to not interrupt your sprint while you tap R1. Best proposal yet. I support SP rollover.
Sana Rayya WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men. 1292	Posted - 2014.04.08 22:25:00 - [29] - Quote I don't think they need any changes, as they are a high skill high damage weapon. The real trick to mastering them is knowing when to try to continue to knife and when to switch to an alternate weapon.
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 1942	Posted - 2014.04.08 22:27:00 - [30] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Mobius Kaethis wrote: A wider field of view option would ... Make flanking much more difficult? Wait till we're doing this with the RIFT - f'in scouts are gonna give me whiplash. I support SP rollover.

Abe Foster BlackWater Liquidations INTERGALACTIC WARPIGS 35	Posted - 2014.04.08 22:28:00 - [31] - Quote Sana Rayya wrote: The real trick to mastering them is knowing when to try to continue to knife and when to switch to an alternate weapon. True that! I need to get better at that. Also when to know when to reload and not throw a stupid grenade. My name is not related to Jane Foster who is Thor's girl friend. And it is just a coincidence that we are both Logi's.
The dark cloud The Rainbow Effect 2725	Posted - 2014.04.08 22:40:00 - [32] - Quote lol @ people comparing the charge mechanic to the forgegun and scrambler rifle. Im sure CCP could implement it that only nova knifes can be charged while sprinting. Sure it takes skill to actually get next to some 1 and start stabbing but on the other hand it takes allmost no skill to dodge them. Half of the time people evade stabbing by bunny hopping or because they are in a gunfight with others and are strafing. And people seem to forget that you have to drop your cloak before you can start stabbing. I shall show you a world, a world which you cant imagine, a world full off butthurt n00bs at the other end of my gun
I-Shayz-I I-----I 2886	Posted - 2014.04.08 23:19:00 - [33] - Quote Here's a tip I learned on day 1 of using nova knives: Follow behind someone Sprint jump in front of them As you're in the air start charging When you hit the ground you should be fully charged AND be in front of the startled enemy. In other words, you are still moving at 9+ m/s while you're charging. From there it's all about skill with the knives. I personally prefer a turn and swipe combo. While you're still in the air you turn 90 degrees to be sideways to your opponent, then you sidestep and release when you are right next to your opponent. I never use knives though because even though they are fun, it's still a lot of effort Links: 7162 wp with a Repair Tool! I make logistics videos!
THE INFAMOUS Sniper Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 6	Posted - 2014.04.08 23:58:00 - [34] - Quote I personally think nova knives are fine the way they are anyone who wants charging while sprinting just doesnt have the moves for the pounce, i must admit the backpeddeling can get annoying majority of my deaths with my knives are from people backing up at the last second walking through me like a ghost. The QQ would be unbeleivable if the true minjas had this in our arsenal let alone FOTM chasers, I wouldnt mind non charged swings to not stop sprinting though this seems reasonable and intriguing.
pagl1u M Maphia Clan Unit Unicorn 528	Posted - 2014.04.09 19:02:00 - [35] - Quote Vrain Matari wrote: Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: Sprinting while charged would be OP as hell. They just need to not interrupt your sprint while you tap R1. Best proposal yet.
Talos Alomar Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2157	Posted - 2014.04.09 19:19:00 - [36] - Quote Sprinting while charged might be a little bit too powerful for a sidearm. I'd just be happy with a wide area of attack so it'll be more useful on moving targets. Shape without form, shade without colour, Paralysed force, gesture without motion;
pagl1u M Maphia Clan Unit Unicorn 529	Posted - 2014.04.09 22:33:00 - [37] - Quote Talos Alomar wrote: Sprinting while charged might be a little bit too powerful for a sidearm. I'd just be happy with a wide area of attack so it'll be more useful on moving targets. But we need to be able to hit while sprinting (if not to charge) I hate when I m following a sprinting enemy and I miss cause my character stops sprinting.
Talos Alomar Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2159	Posted - 2014.04.09 22:51:00 - [38] - Quote pagl1u M wrote: Talos Alomar wrote: Sprinting while charged might be a little bit too powerful for a sidearm. I'd just be happy with a wide area of attack so it'll be more useful on moving targets. But we need to be able to hit while sprinting (if not to charge) I hate when I m following a sprinting enemy and I miss cause my character stops sprinting. Just being able to to the standard slash w/o charge I would actually like to have. Shape without form, shade without colour, Paralysed force, gesture without motion;


Pages: 1 2 :: [one page]